Brushless vs Brushed

[Pa0222]

Can anyone tell me from your experience if making the change from brushed to brushless makes a difference in power/efficiency.
I know the numbers for efficiency and I know you can rewind your brushless and change the bearings so it can virtually be good forever. But what about power?
I upgraded my batteries to Lipos and that was a big change in terms of power. Should I expect the same change when I upgrade to brushless?

Thanks,
Pedro.

[tommyeflight89]

Oh ya!
There is no cpmparison between a brushed and a brushless motor. There is a huge increase in power, efficency etc. They have an extremly high ower to weight ratio, one of my B/L planes will do vertical at just over half throttle, and it can still fly for 15+ mins.
get a good motor and Lipo pack, and you will love it. I don't know about rewinding (why would you need this?), but the bearings can be replaced. I've had a Feigao motor running for over a year with no maintenance.

[Pa0222]

Thanks for your answer tommyeflight89 but I still wonder if I change my current setup with a cheapo GWS 350 geared to a Brushless Motor Company 2410-12 using the same 2000 mAh Lipos will make me happy

[Cam Galbraith]

It depends which way you go. With a brushless and the same batts, you can gear it or prop it for the same thrust, which is lower amps, which is longer flights at the same power level, or prop it for all out thrust which is higher amps which is shorter run time but insane power.

All depends on which way you want to go with it.

[The Enemy]

Hehe, I went for power, and generally get the same flight times...

Cam and Tommy are right on. Better power, better flight times, no maintenance.

My brushed motors are only going to be used for combat flying. That way I have no fear of breaking something 'expensive'...

Corey

[Cass]

here, here to what they said :) .

I have one brushed application ( a mini wing ) my other planes are all brushless.

Dan

[Pa0222]

Tommy,

About the rewinding. You can do it in case you try to push your motor to an amperage it can't take and you burn it. Then, assuming the magnets didn't suffer, you can rewind your motor et voila! It will run again almost as new (this is what people say).

Pedro.

[Pa0222]

Cam, The Enemy and Cass,

This is the thing: I started some 3 years ago when buying a brushless+ESC needed some family planning. Mostly inrunners where offered at skyhigh prices. Same for Lipos and it's chargers. In the other hand I was teaching myself to flight which means going trough lots of repairs and hard landings, many broken gearboxes, propellers (discovering the prop savers was a big advance) and bent shafts.
So I waited until the price was more convenient and just some 3 months ago decided to change my old 7 cell AAA 720mAh to brand new Lipos 3S 10C 2000 mAh (knowing that my slow stick could bear the extra weight). What a difference! I also got one 2S 10C 1100 mAh which was Ok until the 3S arrived. I don't even care if I burn the 350 motor with the higher voltage the SS is flying like a totally new plane. I had to prop down the thing (from 12x8 to 10x8) and now I have power and can go much faster also.
Now, if some of you did the same move towards the new technology: first get the Lipos and the brushless gear after. Then you can probably understand my feeling.
I can't do maintenance to my brushed motors, they are not big enough to have changeable brushes and commutator. So maintenance is not a concern. Keep in mind that I fly slow stick and ESPA3D so I'll probably never need a big motor.
Anyway this thread was originally intended to hear your comments on brushed and brushless if someone could take apart the "Lipo factor". So far I know how brushed-NiMh compares to brushed-Lipos. I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer until my Phx10 arrives and plug it to the small brushless that I got from Zebra.

Pedro.

[Cass]

well, the change from brushed to brushless is about the same as the change from Nimh to lipo's. And your motor will last forever (with apropriate care) If you keep using 3s lipos on your slow stick you will have paid for a brushless setup in a season or less depending on how often you fly.

I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer until my Phx10 arrives and plug it to the small brushless that I got from Zebra.


Henry has great service you wont be waiting long :)

So maintenance is not a concern. Keep in mind that I fly slow stick and ESPA3D so I'll probably never need a big motor

LOL, yeah, lets look back at this post in another year or so..... :D
(sorry, but that is funny from my perspective, i said the same thing)

Your going to enjoy your investment in brushless motors and for 20 bucks for an assembled outrunner, how can you go wrong?

Dan

[DHC-2T]

I am a die hard gas guy--I use to have an interest in a hobby shop, and have been watching the electrics for the last 10 years or so...Talk about evolution!!! Thus I must admit the brushless compared to the brushed well there isnt any. I have shifted my interests when it comes to the smaller planes park flying ect the electrics are the way to go 30% and larger GAS is more economical. oh by the way I spend my summers in Canada the Dauphin MB area or in Kenora Ont. any one in that area ??? Pm me and we will go fly.

[Pa0222]

OK. I got my controller (used) last week and turns out that the motor has problems firing up. I contacted Joe Ford from Castle, really great guy. He gave me some directions which made the problem less severe but I still have to push the propeller to get it to turn right. Once it's spinning no problem I can rev up and down many times and everything seems perfect but if the motor stops then is the same trembling to get it to start.
Any ideas here?

Pedro

[fhhuber506771]

how happy you will be depends on how well you set you set up your motor system.

Choose the correct motor, ESC and battery but the wrong prop and you'll thing the entire package is useless. (if you don't start a fire)

Brushless's biggest inherant advantage is weight. You get much more power from the same weight motor. Since 3D aerobatics are better with a lighter model... brushless wins.

If weight is not a factor, then the type magnets in the motor are what really determines efficiency. practically all (if not all) brushless model motors use "rare earth" magnets. these are much stroonger than the iron magnets common to most brushed motors... thats why brushless tend to be more efficient. (the stronger magnets help get more power from the same weight motor too...)

There's a small efficiency loss in a brushed motor due to the commutator.. but thats a VERY small factor.

there's no brushes or commutator to wear out in the brushless... so they tend to need less maintenance if you don't ever crash.

*********

I got a bigger performance boost by switching to LiPo and a decent ESC than by moving to brushless... Better ESC passes more power to the motor and wastes less power to heat. LiPos rule on power to weight compared to NiCd or NiMh.

If you have the choice of switching from NiXX to LiPo or switching from brushed to brushless.. Do the batteries if flight performance is the primary factor. Do the motor if cost is the primary factor. Brushless motors and controller prices have dropped pretty well recently and should be stable a while. The LiPos will start costing less in the near future if I'm looking at the trends correctly.

[DHC-2T]

dont forget if you over heat (amp) the brushless system the motor is fubar (personal exp with a park400 and ammo using a friend (or was he??) reconmendation) BUY A WATT METER.

[fhhuber506771]

the reason a brushless motor loses power (and becomes very inefficient) when overheated is also from the rare earth magnets. The demagnetize when heated.

Iron magnets will also demagnetize if gotten too hot, but it takes a lot more heat. (usually the winding insulation cooks first)

[tommyeflight89]

Maybe you can rewind simple outrunners, but looking at my Feigao 12T Long can, there are a wack of wires in there, all in orgainzed coils around the can, with a magnet rotating in between. There's got to be hundreds of winds...

[DHC-2T]

the reason a brushless motor loses power (and becomes very inefficient) when overheated is also from the rare earth magnets. The demagnetize when heated.

Iron magnets will also demagnetize if gotten too hot, but it takes a lot more heat. (usually the winding insulation cooks first)

YUP!!! :) :) :)