Designing/building a plane - ideas and feedback welcome [Archive]

Aio_1

Mar 13, 2006, 03:48 PM

I've been browsing this new forum since it started and I have a fair idea what I want in an F3P-ish plane. I don't like building from other peoples designs 'cause it seems like a wasted opportunity to try something new. It means I rarely have an ideal plane but I can live with that!

This time I want something to fly indoors at a meet in 11 days (just a general indoor meet not an F3P comp!!). Since I'm not sure I'll have regular use of a hall I wanted a motor just big enough for some practical outdoor planes if the F3P doesn't work out. That's why I've gone with a 21g motor on 3s instead of 11g motor on 2s. A little heavier so the plane will have to be slightly bigger and/or slightly faster than some of the designs I like.

The plane may not end up being a dedicated F3P design but I think it will be close enough to belong in this forum rather than 3D or elsewhere.

Here's the equipment I'll be using:

Motor - Flyware MicroREX 220-1600 (21g)
Cells - 3s TP480 prolite (34g)
Receiver - ACT Pico 4 (4.5g)
ESC - CC Phoenix 10 (6g)
3 Servos - I've a few spare 4g -6g servos to chose from

The MicroREX should spin a GWS 7x3.5DD prop at about 50W and perhaps 65W on an 8x4.3 prop. I'll test it when it arrives.

I have 2mm, 3mm and 6mm depron.
I was going to build a biplane something like the Aito but I've changed my mind towards a monoplane (you'll notice I change my mind a lot :D ).
I was going to use a ~10% thick aerofoil built from two sheets of 2mm depron around a depron and carbon spar but it seems 2mm is nearly as heavy as 3mm depron so it may be a bit heavy. Any comments on the relative flying qualities of flat and thick wings?

I'm also planning on a box fuselage rather than the more popular cruciform solution. I want a nice rigid fuselage but the cruciform approach just doesn't appeal to me this week ;) .

More to follow when I make some decisions and start drawing (should be within 24hrs)......

Aidan

3dflyindan

Mar 13, 2006, 04:00 PM

flat wings are easy to make light easy to replace repair just cut along glue line slide out make new one slide in :D a airofoil im told is to be better but is heavy and not needed really i currently fly my own design edge 540 full fuse with flate plate wing and all ican say is it is stable can fly quite slow i run it on 20g motor and 8*4.3 prop on 3s and its awesome

good luck with plans

dan

Aio_1

Mar 13, 2006, 05:10 PM

Drag will generally be lower with a full aerofoil and the angle of attack at which the wing stalls will be much greater. However for such low speed flight with high thrust/weight ratios that's not necessarily the main concern. I'm mostly worried about handling. I expect a predictable transition to the stall and good control response while stalled is more important than the actual stall speed.

What sort of size and weight was your finished edge? Got any pictures?

Aidan

Aio_1

Mar 13, 2006, 07:26 PM

No drawings yet.
In order to decide on size and construction I'm looking at the wing loading requirement.
I think 800g/sqm (2.6oz/sqft) is about as high as I should aim.
Bearing in mind the equipment I'm using (~80g + prop and accesories) and that I'm planning a full fuselage I don't think I can realistically aim to get under 180g. 210g is more likely although I'll try to stay below 200g.

200/800 = 0.25sqm = 2500sqcm

I despise imperial measurement (feet and inches) for design purposes. Centimeters are a convenient scale to work with so I'll try and stick with that.
The aspect ratio of the wing will be around 4.2 (span/mean chord)

square root of (2500/4.2) = 24.5cm mean chord
24.5*4.2 = 102cm span

gotta go, more to follow.....

sairaghi

Mar 14, 2006, 07:40 AM

I have 2mm, 3mm and 6mm depron.
I was going to build a biplane something like the Aito but I've changed my mind towards a monoplane (you'll notice I change my mind a lot :D ).
I was going to use a ~10% thick aerofoil built from two sheets of 2mm depron around a depron and carbon spar but it seems 2mm is nearly as heavy as 3mm depron so it may be a bit heavy. Any comments on the relative flying qualities of flat and thick wings?
Aidan

Hi, I am also designing my own F3Ai airplane. I have decided for flat plate wing. I have done several tests with ~10% thick airfoil (real airfoil and your methods) and I prefere the flat plate. In fact with a "real" airfoil the airplane becomes more precise but faster and in a stalled configuration instable! that's my experience...

Ciao Stefano

Aio_1

Mar 14, 2006, 09:06 AM

Hi, I am also designing my own F3Ai airplane. I have decided for flat plate wing. I have done several tests with ~10% thick airfoil (real airfoil and your methods) and I prefere the flat plate. In fact with a "real" airfoil the airplane becomes more precise but faster and in a stalled configuration instable! that's my experience...

Thanks for the feedback Stefano. That's what I was wondering - whether a more predictable and well defined stall such as you get with a flat plate would be better for handling and stability at low speeds.

Aidan

3dflyindan

Mar 14, 2006, 02:34 PM

this is my edge 540 it came rtf at about 7oz i think it has a flate plate wing and flies stable as anything i needed to make the tail surfaces bigger but the airlerons were well :D uncontrollable in high rates.

im a low rate flier :D

i have attached a picture of what it LOOKED like :D i have made about 5 of them now because of how well they fly the one in the pic was sold before i flew it :eek:

thanks

dan

WACOFlyer

Mar 14, 2006, 03:33 PM

Hey 3Dflyindan
Have you had time to get some plans/drawings together yet??
WACOFFlyer

sairaghi

Mar 15, 2006, 03:42 AM

No drawings yet.
Bearing in mind the equipment I'm using (~80g + prop and accesories) and that I'm planning a full fuselage I don't think I can realistically aim to get under 180g. 210g is more likely although I'll try to stay below 200g.
gotta go, more to follow.....

Here's my Ponder.
Span 80 cm
Length 68 cm
4 Hyperion 3 g servos
Hyperion 2205/34 with 8x3.8
Lipo 2S 450 mAh

Total weight RTF 170g. I think that should not be a problem for you to remain below 200g with a span of 100 cm.
I am now building the Ponder F3Ai with increased fuselage length and with another wing design.

Stefano

Aio_1

Mar 15, 2006, 11:46 AM

Here's my Ponder.
Span 80 cm
Length 68 cm
4 Hyperion 3 g servos
Hyperion 2205/34 with 8x3.8
Lipo 2S 450 mAh

Total weight RTF 170g. I think that should not be a problem for you to remain below 200g with a span of 100 cm.
I am now building the Ponder F3Ai with increased fuselage length and with another wing design.

I like the Ponder. It's more or less what I'm thinking but mine will be a little bigger and proportionally longer. I particularly like Benoit Dierickx's Fusion design. I'd love a look at the plans but I don't think he's distributed them (I think it's his own design and he's the only person flying it). I think he only uses it for Aeromusical competition not F3P but I like it.

I think you're right. Perhaps I'm being a little pessimistic about the weight. The only additional equipment weight over the typical competitive setups is about 21g between the cells and motor. The 3s 480mAh pack is ~34g rather than ~22g for a 2s 350mAh pack and the 21g MicroREX 220/6 motor is about 9g heavier than the 220/3 or a small Strecker, etc.

It seems the Fusion weighs in at 240g. Perhaps I won't go quite so big as previously mentioned.

I got my motor yesterday - pictures below.

Aidan

3dflyindan

Mar 15, 2006, 02:25 PM

WACOFFlyer yes i do sort of i have sent them :D

dan

Trisquire

Mar 15, 2006, 02:30 PM

A lot of the Fusion's extra weight comes from 'optional' features like thrust vectoring and streamer release mechanisms. Benoit talks more about the Fusion in this thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3599718/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

Regards,
Tom

Aio_1

Mar 15, 2006, 02:51 PM

Thanks for the link Tom
Yes I knew about the thrust vectoring and streamers alright (6 servos in all plus the mechanisms themselves) but I'll have a look at the link and see what else there is to learn!

Aidan

Aio_1

Mar 17, 2006, 09:41 AM

Well, the rest of my orders have arrived.
I soldered the motor - ESC connections and fitted connectors at the battery end.
The motor, ESC and battery weigh in at 71g which is 10g more than the combined advertised weights of the components. I checked the cells and of 4 packs all weigh in at 37g rather than the 34g advertised. Perhaps 34g doesn't include 50mm of cable?!
The rest of the extra weight to reach 71g must be due to the 2 pairs of 2mm gold connectors at the battery and the cables still being nearly full length (I'll trim them when the installation is decided.

Aidan

Aio_1

Mar 27, 2006, 10:31 AM

I eventually got around to finalising a design and putting it together. All that remains is installing the motor and radio. I'll post some photos later today or tomorrow. It's ended up quite a bit smaller than I originally planned. I've shrunk it to 17.50sqdm (271sqin) and I'll live with the higher wing loading for now. I may develop the design futher once I see how it flys.
The wingspan is 900mm and the length is 925mm. Target weight is 190g which would leave the wing loading at 10.9g/sqdm (~3.6oz/sqft).

The shape is somewhat F3A inspired. There too many Yaks and Extras around at the moment so I was thinking along the lines of the Zlin but it gradually transformed into a very F3A like shape that looks nothing like a Zlin at all. I went through over 20 iterations of the fuselage profile in AutoCAD before I got something that both looked good (to me!) and had suitable proportions. The main considerations were the distribution of side area (particularly the rudder) around the thrust line, wing and tail. The cruciform structure pretty much ties you to having the thrust-line, wing and tailplane mounted on the same horizontal line.

When I was reasonably happy with the design I used Tim H's F3X beta (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=493700) plans as a reference to make sure my proportions weren't way out. I didn't change much but I did stretch my fuselage a little after comparing with Tim's and other designs and I'm glad I did. it looks "right" to me as it is now. I may even stretch it a little more next time - we'll see how it flies. The fuselage has enormous side area - it's about the same size as the wing. Knife edge should be easy!

I had said earlier that I planned on a box fuselage for rigidity and possibly a full aerofoil wing. I compromised on both of these choices! Having read several comments about the success of thread bracing for stiffening cruciform fuselages, I decided to give it a try as it should be easier to build and repair than a box.
I also decided to go with a braced flat plate wing with a modification. I've added an additional strip of depron top and bottom at the leading edge. This was then sanded to give a rounded LE. The added thickness also eliminates the need for a carbon strip at the LE so the only carbon in the wing now is the false TE. I had considered doing this before and the Manta (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5104372&postcount=82) design which I believe uses this feature convinced me to go ahead with it (plus it saves €3 on carbon!)

Photos to follow.

Aidan

3dflyindan

Mar 27, 2006, 11:49 AM

will there be plans for the rest of us out there ?

dan

Aio_1

Mar 27, 2006, 05:23 PM

Yes, I'll post drawings shortly.
I'll have to see what format I can provide them in. I think it'll have to be .DXF drawing format. If anyone would like to convert them to .PDF and repost them here that would be great.

Aidan

Tim H.

Mar 27, 2006, 09:21 PM

I can convert them to PDF for you if you post them here. I've been thinking of doing a "test plane" with a removable wing for testing various wing configurations/vortex manipulation methods. I noticed the thin strips on the LE on the Manta too. I don't think too many people caught it initially due to the paint scheme.

Tim H.

Aio_1

Mar 28, 2006, 07:53 AM

The only problem I've had so far with this plane is the paint. It was supposed to be a light coat to give it a little colour but keep the weight down. There was less paint in the aerosol than I thought and I ran out a minute or two after starting. So I bought more (of a different paint) to finish off. I ended up applying more paint than intended to get the two shades to blend.
Next problem - I hinged the control surfaces last night. The tape doesn't seem to want to stick to the paint. It holds fine in on the unpainted underside but is lifting on the painted areas. Oh well - I'll work something out.

The pictures show the plane assembled with surfaces attached (kind of), and the elevator servo/closed loop installed. No undercarriage yet.
As shown it weighs 87g including one 6g servo. I'd guess there's a couple of unnecessary grams of paint there too.

Thanks for the offer to PDF the drawings Tim!

Aidan

3dflyindan

Mar 28, 2006, 07:56 AM

looks nice you should have attached the surfaces and painted over them or get come blenderm thats sticks to anything
:D

dan

Aio_1

Mar 28, 2006, 08:00 AM

I ran out of blenderm and haven't found a local source. It's used on the elevator and upper aileron hinge. It sticks but not well. I'm using a different tape elsewhere that's much worse.

Aidan

3dflyindan

Mar 28, 2006, 08:13 AM

get some robart hinges and try them they will last longer aswell

dan

j_z_123

Mar 28, 2006, 07:38 PM

Very nice!

ChrisBowker

Mar 28, 2006, 08:01 PM

i realy like the way it looks, cant wait to see it fly.

Chris

coloradoz

Apr 22, 2006, 10:16 AM

are the plans out yet?

Aio_1

Apr 22, 2006, 10:41 AM

Hi guys,

I've got this plane to the point shown in the pictures and went no further. I've been working on some other stuff and just didn't get around to finishing the installation (only maybe 3hrs work!). The main reason is I didn't have any upcoming indoor events to motivate me! So the plane's not tested yet although I'm pretty confident it will fly well.

If anyone wants to go ahead and build one you're welcome to do so. You might even beat me into the air! Hopefully I'll get back to it in the next week. It's not like it's a big project you could probably build decorate and equip one in two days if you really tried!

I've attached a zipped copy of my working drawing in DXF format. This should be enough to build one. I'll draw up proper plans and see if someone will convert to PDF for me when I've flown it. Sorry for the laziness on my part! :)

If you've any problems with the drawing let me know.

Aidan

P.S.
I've posted updated plans in post #56 which supercede those attached to this post.

Tim H.

Apr 23, 2006, 12:32 PM

Aiden, what is the wingspan? I can convert it. Looks good!

Tim H.

PS - Never mind... I got it, 900mm

3dflyindan

Apr 23, 2006, 12:59 PM

its not working for me and i have autocad so i should be able to view it eh?

dan

Wetafly

Apr 24, 2006, 06:24 AM

Hi Aiden

Nice design. My thoughts are

Quite big at 900mm span 17.42 dm sq compared to Knuffel 14.65 dm sq span 815mm.
My Knuffel fuses break pretty easily at the aileron hinge line and the extra mass will make it more fragile.
Target weight going by other posts is 8.5 gm/dm sq so 150gm. Tuning your weight/power/duration is going to be interesting ie what motor/ battery will be best.
I am interested to see how the LE radius works out. My feeling is increasing the radius softens the stall. For me I am going for as abrupt a stall as possible as my models fly around the snaps too much for my liking. (3mm flat plate)
The rudder looks marginal for flat spins (could easily be wrong here) but alot is needed to overcome all the fuse side area for knife edge.
I am interested to see what solution you come up with for the UC?
Also how are you going to mount the battery? This is a problem for me at the moment as I dont like velcro dots as I nearly tear the model apart taking the battery off.
Please dont find these comments negative as I think you have designed a very promising model.
Rod

Aio_1

Apr 24, 2006, 08:13 AM

Aiden, what is the wingspan? I can convert it. Looks good!

Tim H.

PS - Never mind... I got it, 900mm
Thanks Tim!

its not working for me and i have autocad so i should be able to view it eh?
Yes. I saved it in an old DXF format to maximise compatibility. I'd expect any version of AutoCAD since the mid-90s to open it (you did un-ZIP it first?!)

Nice design. My thoughts are

Quite big at 900mm span 17.42 dm sq compared to Knuffel 14.65 dm sq span 815mm.
My Knuffel fuses break pretty easily at the aileron hinge line and the extra mass will make it more fragile.
Target weight going by other posts is 8.5 gm/dm sq so 150gm. Tuning your weight/power/duration is going to be interesting ie what motor/ battery will be best.
I am interested to see how the LE radius works out. My feeling is increasing the radius softens the stall. For me I am going for as abrupt a stall as possible as my models fly around the snaps too much for my liking. (3mm flat plate)
The rudder looks marginal for flat spins (could easily be wrong here) but alot is needed to overcome all the fuse side area for knife edge.
I am interested to see what solution you come up with for the UC?
Also how are you going to mount the battery? This is a problem for me at the moment as I dont like velcro dots as I nearly tear the model apart taking the battery off.
Please dont find these comments negative as I think you have designed a very promising model.
Rod

Thanks for the constructive criticism Rod.
I did make the plane larger than typical intentionally. My power system is a MicroREX 220/6/1600 on a 3s 480mAh pack so it's got more power but also more weight than most of the planes being used at a competitve level in France/Germany at the moment. Indoor hasn't really taken off yet here in Ireland although it's starting to look promising. As a result I bought a motor I could also use for small outdoor models if F3P doesn't come good.
I'm expecting an AUW of around 190g which may be a little heavy.
Thanks for the warning about the potential fuselage weakness at the TE. Hopefully the kevlar bracing will spread some of the stresses but the added rigidity could have the opposite effect! - we'll see what happens.

I expect the thickened LE will soften the stall a little as you suggest. Perhaps not ideal for snap manoeuvers but should provide smoother flight in "flown" manouevers. I don't know how noticable the effect will be or whether it's going to suit everyone's taste.

The rudder was actually bigger on my earlier drawings but after comparing with other designs I decided it might be unecessarily big and scaled it down a little. It's still rather large and hopefully will be okay but it's the easiest part to retrofit with something larger if necessary!

I'll use either a velcro strap or an elastic band to mount the battery. I don't like having to pull the cells off the airframe either and never use that method. I usually pass a strip of velcro through the depron so that it produces a loop the width of the pack. This holds the pack to the surface and then a strip of balsa or depron in front and behind the pack keeps it from sliding forward or back. I find this method ideal. Very simple, secure and doesn't damage the airframe. It also doesn't require you to stick bit's of velcro to your packs! You could use a much narrower strap than shown in the picture or even substitute a light ribbon with a little velcro on the ends to reduce weight by a gram or so! The installation shown is on a less weight critical plane.

Aidan

Aio_1

Oct 13, 2006, 04:52 AM

This plane has been shelved a while as the only indoor flying activity I've been taking part in recently is on this forum and I've been exceptionally busy at work.....
However there's an indoor event on tomorrow afternoon so time permitting I'll get the plane finished and have a maiden report by Sunday. Hopefully this will be the first of several events this season.

I added the kevlar thread bracing to the airframe last night and was very pleased with the result. The thread is applied in one continuous length so that it can be tensioned and tied off before fixing. It does take a little while to thread the line through the airframe and tighten it up but once that's done it's just a case of twisting the fuselage, wings and tailplane into alignment (easy enough to do by eye but could be done more accurately with a set square and a laser!) and then apply a little cyano at each eyelet to fix the line lengths. The most noticable improvement is that the fuelage is now very stiff in torsion. The wings are also much more rigid and the airframe can be supported by the wingtips without causing any significant bend in the wings - before bracing I'd guess the centre of the wing would have sagged at least 40mm doing this.

I've also added landing gear. This is made from two 2mm carbon rods crossed from the thickened LE through the fuselage with a short piece of piano wire bound to the ends to take the wheels. These are 30mm lightweight wheels from Hyperion. I think these will work well. My only concern is that I may have left them too short. The angle of attack with the tail resting on the ground isn't huge - hopefully I won't need excessive throttle to get airbourne! It'll just cut and lengthen them if it's a problem.

I'm going to try two power systems initially. I've the 3s prolite 480 cells I originally intended to use and I've also got 2s Hyperion 300mAh (20C/30C) cells which would knock about 15g off the weight.
I've tested the MicroREX220/6/1600 on 3s and GWS 7x3.5 prop at 5A (~48W). I'd probably use a GWS 8*4.3 with the 2s packs. That should again draw about 5A (~32W). I'm not certain this will be enough since it's quite a large plane but it's worth a try. I could push the motor harder and go to maybe 7.5A but I'll wait and see.

I've also helped my father design a biplane for a MicroREX220/3/3200 11g motor. Construction on that has just commenced but I'll post pictures and plans in a new thread when it's complete.

Aidan

Aio_1

Oct 13, 2006, 07:02 AM

Time for a name.

How about Index

tim_mellor

Oct 13, 2006, 07:40 AM

Perhaps 'Shillelagh' might be in order?

Tim

Aio_1

Oct 13, 2006, 09:26 AM

Perhaps 'Shillelagh' might be in order?..
Nah, there'd be jokes and pointing ;)

tim_mellor

Oct 13, 2006, 09:57 AM

No jokes from me :) I thought a fighting stick wasn't a bad choice. On the other hand a if I had have gone with Leprikaun that might have been different ;)

Tim

Daniel Z

Oct 13, 2006, 01:01 PM

Here is my atempt to the same concept so far... it is for flying outdoors so it have a himax 2808 980 and 3s 1000 mah, pointing to end at 10oz aprox 90cm wingspan
I have added 2 layers more of 10mm epp (that is what I have) to make a Manta alike LE airfoil and really big ailerons because the roll rate of my other models always feels slow for me, also a large fuse area and some tatoo designs :D

Trisquire

Oct 17, 2006, 11:49 AM

In our continuing quest to slow planes down, I thought this might be relevant:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584279

Tom

Aio_1

Oct 17, 2006, 11:57 AM

Well I got it flying last Sunday.
The finished weight with the 3s 480 pack was 189g (6.66oz) which I was very happy with considering I forcast 190g at the start of this thread! :D It's heavy for an F3P plane but not too bad considering the large size and the excessive paint issue.
I couldn't evaluate it properly since the aileron linkage got distorted in transport and I ended up flying with several degrees of up aileron deflection. This isn't the best way to keep your speed down but it was still very flyable and showed a lot of promise. It also looked great in the air (well i think so anyway!). There was significant yaw/roll coupling with rudder deflection but this was probably due to the deflected ailerons.

After a couple of flights I had a momentary brain failure and flew into the floor.....Oops!
The fuselage from the wing forward needs surgery but it should be up and running (with everything deflecting correctly) by the next indoor event first week in November.

Incidentally, I really was impressed by the MicroREX motor. It performs very nicely. Good power and incredibly quiet. I think I'll buy another or possibly the smaller 12g version. Clearly I need a back-up plane and my PJS 300 is looking awfully big recently.

Aidan

Aio_1

Oct 31, 2006, 12:48 PM

The biplane mentioned in post #31 has been built and flown. I was very pleased with the performance! I'll post pictures when I get a chance (in work now).
It was easy to fly and oh so slow! It was also the first outing for the power system which performed very well.

Equipment was:
MicroREX220-3-3200 motor (12g)
2s 300mAh Hyperion litestorm cells (19g)
Thunderbird 9 ESC (~8g)
3 x SD-100 (same as Dymond 4.7) (~15g)
Multiplex RX-5 (~9g)

AUW was just under 150g.

The MicroREX on a GWS 6x3HD prop drew 6A on a fresh pack dropping to about 5.5A halfway through discharge. I was very impressed with how well the cells held voltage under load (~3.5V per cell at 20C (that's 40W!) early in the discharge and 3.1V per cell at 20C after 200mAh discharged). This was also the first couple of cycles for the cells so they may even improve a little.
This is a huge improvement over the TP 480mAh cells which struggle to deliver >5A while staying above 3V per cell.

The RX is a little heavier than necessary but still a nice tidy receiver with a short antenna and should be reliable.
Incidentally the new TB9 ESC failed to cut at 6V while set to auto-lipo LVC. Hopfully the cells aren't damaged although they were certainly over discharged. Anyone had this problem? I'll check the settings and test on the bench.

The plane itself flew nicely except for some yaw instability. I suspected this might be a problem. I never calculated the neutral point on the side area and when the fuselage was cut it did look a little big at the front. My father has now added extra fin/rudder area which should cure the problem on the prototype but the nose can easily be trimmed a little to cure this on the next one. A shorter nose won't cause any balance problems. I've got a MicroREX on order and I plan to build a slightly revised version for myself. Assuming it flies well - I'll post the plans.

The next indoor meet here has been postponed until November 18th so testing will depend on rare calm weather for now. I should have both the "Index" and a new biplane ready for the 18th.

If I post plans I'll start a new thread and put the plan in the "F3P Plans" sticky.

Aidan

crossup

Oct 31, 2006, 07:50 PM

tim_mellor

Oct 31, 2006, 08:02 PM

Hi Aiden,

I am liking the little Hyperion Packs too :D The actually perform as well as some of the older 600's I have. Did you decide on a name in the end
:rolleyes: Looks goos BTW.

Tim

aglenn

Oct 31, 2006, 08:45 PM

You guys should try the 2 cell Bad dogs 360 from 2dogrc.com

tim_mellor

Oct 31, 2006, 09:10 PM

Not avialable in Oz YET ;) but they look good too.

Tim

Aio_1

Nov 01, 2006, 04:48 AM

Yep Aio_1, same thing for me, fine on 3 cells but on 2 cells first pack went down after sitting a few day to 3.4v and, being careful to stop at the first sign of power loss, a second pack at 5.5v. Dont know about you but I'm supposed to be on factory programming which means 3v / cell cutoff etc.
Hmmm, so it's not a one off then...
Programming on this ESC is as delivered. I have a Phoenix link and checked the settings on my PC but didn't change them. It's set to Auto LVC for lipos. I just ordered 2 of these, 1 for me one for my Dad. That was his one so I must check if mine (still in the pack) does the same. I'll also check if there's a software upgrade available in case this is a known and corrected problem.

I am liking the little Hyperion Packs too :D The actually perform as well as some of the older 600's I have. Did you decide on a name in the end
:rolleyes: Looks goos BTW.
I think I'll stick with "Index" for the monoplane.

After all:
It should point the way - for me
It's suitable for Indoor and some external flying
It's my first own design F3P plane which will be the benchmark for any others

Yeah I know - I am a little bit silly.

tim_mellor

Nov 01, 2006, 04:54 AM

I knew to much Guinness was bad for you ;)

suhonen91

Nov 16, 2006, 12:56 PM

any pdf plans?
i dont have any auto cad...

Azarr

Nov 16, 2006, 05:53 PM

In our continuing quest to slow planes down, I thought this might be relevant:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=584279

Tom

Here's another http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=492861&highlight=notched+leading+edge

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

Aio_1

Nov 17, 2006, 08:52 AM

any pdf plans?
i dont have any auto cad...

I can't put them in PDF format myself but perhaps someone else will.
I'll tidy up the drawing a little over the weekend and see if someone will convert it (Tim H may be able to oblige?;) )
I never did post a finished picture. I must do that later today.

It's still pretty much an untested design as I've only had access to a hall once in recent months but I'm going to be flying it at an indoor event tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes - hopefully I'll avoid doing anything silly long enough to give it some proper testing!

Aidan

3d_Crazy

Nov 17, 2006, 10:34 AM

Not avialable in Oz YET ;) but they look good too.
Tim

We can fix that... I know where you can get em! :D

somt1033

Nov 17, 2006, 07:52 PM

hi aidan,
this is my last build its not really indoor design since tow will be around 360grams
span: 110mm
lenght 110mm

Daniel Z

Nov 18, 2006, 06:31 PM

nice, I can see some straight lines and crisp snaps in your future...

Aio_1

Nov 18, 2006, 06:41 PM

I finally go to do some proper flights!

Having repaired the plane after the last outing and correcting the aileron linkage problem, I at last got the chance to give the Index a proper trial today.
I decided to try my new 2s Hyperion VX300 packs and a larger prop rather than the 3s TP480 packs and 7x3.5 prop I designed it around. With an APC 9x3.8SF on the MicroREX it drew ~6.2A at full throttle which seemed about ideal for the packs.
I was delighted with the result. It flew beautifully. I had 5 or 6 flights in all and did a little hovering (very easy and stable), plenty knife edge (very stable and hardly any rudder required to hold it) and general messing around. There's hardly any yaw/roll coupling. Last time out it needed lots of aileron to stay level when rudder was applied. I guessed the aileron deflection problem was responsible and I was pleased to find today that I'd guessed correctly :).

I was particularly happy with thew slow speed handling. It's very smooth in pitch and there's no sudden change in response as the plane transitions from normal level flight to stalled "harrier" flight. It was extremely easy and rock steady flying around at walking pace with high angles of attack. I was sharing the sky with a couple of Aitos for some of my flights and was pleased to see that I had no trouble matching their leisurely pace although having no airbrakes and a less draggy airframe than the bipes the Index isn't so much of a single speed model and does speed up more noticably in the dives (this could easily be remedied if I decide I want to later - I may try drag devices at some point).

The 2s packs and 9x3.8 prop proved to be an excellent match to the airframe and I never got around to trying the originally intended cells and prop which I also had with me.
Unfortunately on the 5th or 6th flight I screwed up and smacked the ground a little hard breaking the motor mount and shattering the nose in places. It will be repaired!

I've ordered the 11g MicroREX220-3-3200, baby brother of the one I used today. I've started building a biplane for it but after today I'm considering a slightly smaller and lighter version of the Index as an alternative. It would probably be about 800mm span and I'd aim for about 120g.

I've included some pictures of the finished plane (at last). You can see the creases on the canopy from the damage it took on it's first time out. You may also notice that the rudder is slightly larger than the one shown in the plan. I'll update the plan to show this and re-post it shortly.

Aidan

Aio_1

Nov 18, 2006, 06:43 PM

somt1033,

Very nice. Definitely inspired by some past and present F3A machines I'd say!

Aidan

Aio_1

Nov 18, 2006, 07:18 PM

OK, got the pictures uploaded.
I may need a more interesting colour scheme next time :D
The yellow with black bits is slightly boring:)

suhonen91

Dec 24, 2006, 02:11 PM

i need these palns to dwg flie and then i can "transfer(or something like that)"
that for pdf file...
sorry my poor english...

Aio_1

Dec 29, 2006, 04:08 PM

I've attached an updated DXF file for the Index.

This is a tidied up version of the file posted previously and also shows the revised rudder.

As I mentioned before I haven't got software that allows me convert this to PDF. If anyone has the time and inclination to convert it I'd really appreciate the help! I can re-arrange the drawing to suit tiling etc as necessary.

Aidan

P.S.
Revised the attached DXF to match the PDFs in post #59 below.

Aio_1

Dec 29, 2006, 04:13 PM

I was flying the Index again on the 27th and the more I fly it the more pleased I am with it. The power system is also a big success. I've been happily surprised by the performance on the 2s pack with an APC 9x3.8 slowflyer prop.
My flying still leaves a lot to be desired but I did hand the Index over to a much more competent pilot who demonstrated that my inability to fly proper rolling circles has nothing to do with the plane!:D

I'm considering building a smaller version for the 11g MacroREX motor.
It would be about 765mm span (85%) and the target weight would be about 120g.

Aidan

signflyer

Dec 30, 2006, 02:19 PM

I really like the fuselage shape on this one!

-Scott

**edit - plans removed to unclutter the thread

Aio_1

Dec 30, 2006, 05:49 PM

Thanks to Scott, Pat and Wes for their help!

Pat MacKenzie posted a link to CutePDF earlier today in the F3P Plans sticky (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550372) so I've downloaded it and had a go creating the PDFs myself.

I've attached my own PDFs for both A0 and A4 formats.
I made a couple of small adjustments to the drawing notes etc while I was moving things around to fit nicely on A4 but nothing vital has changed. I'll update the DXF file in the earlier post to match.

If you have any difficulties or queries do let me know and I'll be happy to help if I can. There are a few details omitted from the plans such as the undercarriage and radio gear installation. Also I didn't show the split for joining the horizontal and vertical components of the cruciform fuselage since I it will depend on your prefered building method. I can make suggestions if needed.

The attached Kevlar bracing instructions were created by Tim Hart and if you're going the thread bracing route as I did with the prototype this will show you how. Alternatively you could use carbon rods to brace the wing and diagonal depron strips to stiffen the fuselage as many other designs do.

If you decide to build the Index or a variation on the design I'd love to see the results..... Have fun!

And feel free to modify to your hearts content - I won't be offended!

Aidan