Fazer radio setup

[helibasher]

A question for all you Fazer pilots. With the HQW 2/8 airfoil I have heard comments about slaving the camber to the elevator channel or using the left stick for camber instead of flaps/crow. Are people running this glider in normal configuration or how are people using camber more dynamically. There is apparently a competitor in Europe who works the camber as much as the stab and has led him to good results.
FYI I curently run my Eraser Extreme with the camber on my left slider, only active in thermal mode and then 3 other preset modes for launch, speed, and cruise. I have the left stick set for crow.
Thanks for your comments.

[maxer]

I have been selling the FAZER at SKIPMILLERMODELS.com since it was first released by Lubos Pazderka. Pazderka is one of the best Designer /Pilots in Europe in F3J. Often times models are created by designers and flown by pilots....not necessarily the best program, so Lubos and his partner Peter Fusik know there stuff(Peter is the F3B side with the new recently released in the USA VICTOR(I'll be testing one this weekend)The Fazer is probably one of the best handling sailplanes I have flown.A number of top pilots in the USA agree, (Jolly, McCarthy, Lee )etc but it is a bit "racey" for USA T.D.(but tows fast with amazing zoom). I had been doing some testing with my son, Dusty Miller, a year ago in Pheonix. He was flying the FAZER and I was flying my trusty PIKE SUPERIOR(old blue). We were launching side by side on winches in benign conditions. If you flew well, you would get 10-11 minutes, or should I say I was with the the SUPERIOR...no thermal activity..but Dusty with the FAZER was hitting a consistent 7 or 8 minutes. After 3 flights of this, I asked him to let me fly it...somthing seemed wrong.....It was too zippy....fun but too much pace. What I found, and sorry I don't remember the exact cg, was that as soon as it came off tow, EVERYTHING improved when I dialed in about 1/16th inch of camber and flew the whole flight this way until landing.... the model came alive and from then on he hit 12-13 minutes. So my advice, your set up is right. Leave the camber on the slider on the side. With Airtronics, the detent in the middle is where we hit the 1/16th ", or an 1/8th inch for full camber(only use this when short on landing in the ground effect) Leave your left stick alone for the landing flap

Don't fiddle with it. Come off tow, set the camber and leave it. Of course if you are chasing a thermal, keep the wing clean, or with your 3 position switch reflex 1/32 inch. We have launch, normal(clean) and reflex position, and that works great. If you follow this adjustment you will start raving to your friends how well the FAZER flies... and hangs!!!....Dusty ended up beating me with the setup....plus you'll have way more fun flying the Fazer...after you get your time it's FUN to push it around.... Hope this helps .....Skip Miller

[Tuomo]

Landing with crow controlled through slider sounds difficult :eek:

However, I find it very useful to control both thermal flap and crow via left stick ("throttle"). This can be easily done in most moder sailplane radios, I use Grp MC-24. In fact I control also the start flaps this way... The system is built around three main flight phases and it is very logical to use. I use one 3-position switch to control the phases.

3 flight phases - 3 different functions for the left stick. Controlling wing camber via left stick in start or thermal mode is just as natural as using it for crow control.

(For the conditions described above, I have a fixed float setting - this is behind a separate switch. Same with speed setting. So actually 5 flight phases used.)

Controlling wing camber via left stick gives superior control when flown in active air, normal conditions. You rarely have to look at the smaller controls and changes between different settings are smooth and gradual. The only problem is that finding proper settings for wing camber and elevator trim takes some time. My preference is that full camber from left stick gives nice slow glide, but is anyway little faster than the fixed float setting I use.

I have not yet flown a HQ/W 2/8 but I have one plane with it coming...

[D_Ryan]

Tuomo;

I think you'll find many pilots prefer to put camber on a slider or a switch with fixed discrete values due to a concern about unintentional changes in camber while entering rudder inputs with the left stick...

Skip's comment about "leave your left stick alone for the landing flap" was not meant to imply (I think) that you should have landing flaps/crow on the slider; rather I think he was trying to say that he prefers the left stick be used for landing flap/crow, and not for camber control as well (as you do).

r/
Dave

[mlee8249]

Hi Helibasher,

I do own a Fazer and love this model. I personally didn't find the model to be too "racey" as Skip might have implied, but only because I had set up my model to have a camber mode from the very first flight. I use a JR 9303 radio, which allows me to have 5 different flight modes, and so one of those modes is the thermal mode. In this mode, I have dialed in about 1/16 to 3/32 inch of camber across the entire trailing edge. With this, the Fazer floats pretty damn good. It does not become tipsy in the turns, as some of my other planes have done, and that's a real plus for the Fazer.

Now, in looking at how the camber is set up, I would not recommend mixing the camber into the elevator. I find that you create a stall condition far too often by doing so, unless you fly deliberately fast all the time. Once you start to slow her up, and then start jockeying the elevator, you're going to find yourself stalling more often than not. By using a set amount of camber, the model remains fair consistent in camber flight and corrections with the elevator can be made quicker to prevent the stall from happening. For example, you are in light lift and engage the elevator to camber mix. I think you will find that unless you are being careful, you will start hauling back on the elevator to milk the thermal. Well, you are probably going to be traveling fairly slow and already near stall. Add to this the camber mix with a higher angle of attack as you pull in the elevator and something has got to give....stall. Now, if you use the fixed camber mode, in the same situation, you will haul back on the elevator and see that the plane is going to stall when you start to haul back on the stick. By getting that split second of early warning, you can avoid the actual stall, maintaining your altitude and position in the sky.

Now, I set up the 9303 such that I flip a flight mode switch and that sets the model into camber mode with a bit less elevator throw, increased rudder throw and increased aileron differential. On my Futaba 9-CAP, I have it set up so that I can use the left hand stick for flaps/CROW or by flipping the mix inhibit switch, the same stick only works the camber. But, I do not have the luxury of changing my aileron differential, aileron to rudder mix nor elevator rates like the 9303. As you can see, this makes the task of flying a bit more complicated, as we are using various switches to change flight parameters and with the addition of more switches and flight modes, there is the increase in possible pilot error with forgetting to flip the right switch or place the model into the correct flight mode for the next flight situation, like landing. For this reason, I normally will call out to my timer (Manny Gomez or Mike Skube...it helps to use the same guys all the time) what flight mode I am in so that they can cross check me and reduce the possible flight control errors. Basically the same thing that happens in the cockpit of the real aircraft.

Getting back to the Fazer, I think you will find this plane to be very honest and robust. It has vast capabilities with a very good no-lift condition float, yet you kick her in the pants and she will motivate with reflex like a scalded cat! I like this model as my all-around model. Mine came in at 74 ounces, as I was careful to reduce weight. However, it flies more like it weighs 66 ounces. It's best flight to date was during the F3J Team Selection event when the model got launched badly and had only one second on the tow line when it popped off. She was able to find lift at low level and max out the round, winning that round easily. Let me tell you, there were some envious people giving me the evil eye when we pulled that one off...except for Skip, who was not flying that round. He was cheering us on! Thanks for the time!

Mike Lee

[thermalbum]

Mike,
I am looking for new plane and was wondering if my venerable old 8UAFS is enough radio to easily utilize the capabilities of the Fazer. I could/would be willing to forego reflex since the foil seems quick enough with a little bit of down elevator applied when required.
BTW the Sapphire I used last year launches and flies great in most conditions. Podum finishes all last summer but the plane gets outdistanced with great regularity.

[Tuomo]

I think you'll find many pilots prefer to put camber on a slider or a switch with fixed discrete values due to a concern about unintentional changes in camber while entering rudder inputs with the left stick...


That is the argument I have heard often when dicussing about using left stick to control thermal flap.

However, I do find your concern too valid. I fly most often with 1) neutral trailing edge or 2) left stick all the way back (intermediate thermal flap). When needed I 3) flip float mode from separate switch. So there is not actually too much to mess up with trailing edge setting. Using the left stick for it just gives me softer, more controllable and easy way of changing trim. Should be a benefit when flying a moder plane like Fazer.

Anyway, this is one of the many things that are ultimately very personal. I am a former power-flier. Using the left stick actively is more natural to me than flipping small switches or sliders. I would say messing up with a slider is much more propable.

The new radios favour this style - or make it possible. I would never sacrifice lef stick crow for the camber setting I am talking about. The possibility to use same stick for multiple controls via flight phases has not been available for too many years.

But Back to the Fazer. What is typical float camber you use with HQ/W 2/8. 4mm, 6mm?

[helibasher]

Hi Thermalbum:
Yeah, the Sapphires are going to make for some stiff competition this year (there are so many of them in Ottawa :D ). Is your radio essentially the plane version of the 8UHPS?

[thermalbum]

Corey,

Yes I have the heli mixes on my TX. I beleive that the only major difference between the Heli version and the real plane version was switch assignments and what servos and battery came in the box. The Sapphire flew pretty good last summer-it was successful against most of the mouldies :). I was gonna buy a new turntable for my stereo but a mouldie is cheaper!!!!

What colour is your Fazer if I get one I don't want to have the same colour scheme as yours. Although mine will always be higher and in the air longer :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[D_Ryan]

Tuomo;

Based on the detailed responses from Skip Miller and Mike Lee, they are recommending camber values equivalent to approximately 1.59 mm - 2.38 mm, not to exceed 3.18 mm. (values converted from their english measurements

r/
Dave

[helibasher]

Mine is white with blue undersides. I usually like either red or blue under the wing and white everywhere else.
I had put together a program on my 8UHPS which allowed three cambers using the left 3 way switch and crow/flaps on the left stick. No flight modes for gliders unfortunately on that radio but I got everything I wanted to work. Unfortunately I then went to the 9Z for the helicopters and switched all my big gliders to it. The 8UHPS is relegated to DLG (I am not spinning around with the 9Z in my hand) so i don't know if I still have the program loaded.
Are you sure you want to be in the air longer than task time, cause thats when I'll be landing :p

[mlee8249]

Hi Thermalbum,

If it were my radio to set up, this is what I would work.

Assuming that you have the CROW mixed in normally, and to activate it you would have one of the switches assigned to it, (not in the NULL mode), I would use the Elevator dual rate switch to activate or deactivate the CROW mode. When in the deactivated mode, I would use the program mix capability to mix the ailerons to channel 4 (left stick) with the link ON so that both ailerons follow command, and then also mix channel 5 Flap to channel 4 (left stick) with the link ON so that channel 6 follows. Now that should allow you to mix the entire trailing edge with the movement of the throttle stick. Now, reduce the mix percentage to like 8% at full bottom stick and zero at the top. What this will accomplish is to use the left stick as the camber adjust while not using the CROW mix. So, flip the elevator dual rate switch UP and you have camber. Flip it DOWN and you have CROW. The only thing you have to remember is that come landing time, you better flip that switch DOWN to get the CROW mix going, or you might find yourself dodging a plane that is dead set on taking out your shins! This is the exact mix I used before the 9303 and what caused me to begin calling out to my timers what mode my transmitter was in as I prepared to land.

So, why would I inhibit the CROW mix in the first place besides having camber on the same stick? Well, I found that when I launched, I would accidentally bump the stick every once in awhile and the flaps would drop, causing all kinds of havoc on launch. Leaving it out while mixing in the camber will only cause a minor change on launch that is not a pop-off most of the time.

As for reflex, I would assign this to the three-way switch that is also used for the launch mode of the model. It is found in the advanced menu section of the programming, listed as "START" and "SPEED". Speed is reflex, and you should be able to cause the trailing edge to kick up with that switch.

As for using the Sapphire, you have a great aircraft in the Sapphire. While the 7037 airfoil is not the fastest one in the sky, it certainly is one of the best airfoils you can find for thermal duration. Although the newest generation of moldie birds may outpace the Sapphire in terms of ranging out, you are not at that large of a disadvantage. The thing you have to determine is whether you are willing to fly out at great distances in search of lift in order to take advantage of that range, or if you ain't got the balls for flying a mile away...literally a mile! If you ain't got the balls, stay with what you have. If you have the balls, and you have found the Sapphire is not giving you what you demand in terms of performance, range, speed and handling, then it may be time to look at newer aircraft. But, you should remember that nobody can buy their way into the winner's circle. You must earn it. Pay your dues and figure out how to get there. When you know your present plane won't do what you want, it's time to improve the tools you use to achieve what you want. It might be the plane or the radio or even your timer who can't keep his mouth shut. Whatever it is that you KNOW is holding you back from being better, rid yourself of that and improve. (that does not include your wife or significant other...I didn't say that!) (Ouch!!! Sorry, honey). But whatever you do, get to know your plane...intimately! (that doesn't mean you sleep with it) It means you fly it's wings off to the point that you know what it will do every inch of its' flight in any weather condition and anytime of the day. That's the only way you find out what it is capable of, where it doesn't satisfy you (this is getting deep), and just how far you can push it before you get into trouble. I beleive every top notch pilot does exactly this...save for DP. Daryl simply puts his plane into the sky and heads out. If it doesn't find lift, it doesn't come back. But I do assure you, guys like Skip make every flight into a flight with a goal in mind. Reach it or try harder. Maybe that's why Skip has the WC after his name.

Mike Lee

[thermalbum]

I fly mode 1 so if your mixing would work I could be interested. I am also checking out an Artemis or Hera.
Longer flight times are fine if they area few seconds over - contests are won in the landing circle. Remember the tape in the middle of the field ;) .

[thermalbum]

MIke,

Thanks for your detailed response. I'll read it carefully and digest the info. Since I am a Mode 1 thumb flyer I never bump the right stick when launching, there is always forward pressure on the stick. Having the thermal setting on the crow switch is a neat idea. I use the three pos'n switch for launch and reflex-makes it handy when launching. I do fly "way out there" more often than not, but I find that the Sapphire seems to lag behind others when I would like to cruise over to the next concession road. I really like the Sapphire, as you say it is a great plane and it gave me podium finishes all last summer. What I am essentially looking for is a plane with more range than the Sapphire while not losing much of the thermal/landing capabilities. It is more of a matter of flying style as opposed to buying contest performance.
Anyway since I am newly retired I gotta spend my all money on toys or my wife will find unused areas of the (her) backyard for more garden stuff!!!!

Thanks again