Frigate, large version

[Cebola]

Well, this is Frigate, in a large version.

This model as the pourpose to challenge the F3B models, very light 28oz, and whit a very good glide ratio, this model is inspired on the Frigate, a small version, but maybe my best model ever.
Frigate has elevons, and a type of spoiler using the canopy, is full upen to increase the drag.
This glider have a very good glide ratio, and low sinkness

Technicall data


Wing span 120"
Lenght 60"
Airfoil S 4083 on root and AG 37 on mid panel and AG 38 on the tip panel.
Weight 28oz RF.

I hope you like it!

Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

Mor large Frigate photos


Cebola
Brazil

[little flyer]

Wow, plans? more details?

[Cebola]

Wow, plans? more details?


This is a very simple model, whit a pod & boom fuse, I dont like this system, but I have to admite that is light and strong.

The sag betwen the ribs is minimised by the use of false ribs.

The canopy is balsa made, and opens using a servo, to act like a spoiler.

By avoid the balsa sheeting, I gain mor than 10oz on final wheight, and this model will be a challengist against fiber glass German Models on F3J.

Frigate plans are in paper, but deppending on the final performance in competitions, I will tranfer for Acad, and those plans will be available for all.

It's secret is the combination betwen airfoils, and the wing design, inspirated on the Frigate bird.

Maybe the best glider I ever see in my life.


Cebola
Brazil

[Wind Shadow]

The Frigate looks pretty cool!

Have you flown it much?
Was wondering how those VERY pointy tips worked out? Do you have any tip stall problems with tips that sharp?

I would guess that low wing loading probably helps out for circling flight, eh?
Nice job, hope it does well for you! :D

Wind Shadow

[Cebola]

The Frigate looks pretty cool!

Have you flown it much?
Was wondering how those VERY pointy tips worked out? Do you have any tip stall problems with tips that sharp?

I would guess that low wing loading probably helps out for circling flight, eh?
Nice job, hope it does well for you! :D

Wind Shadow

The wing tips, acts like a dihedral improuvement, and really dont flyes, it's only a help to avoid that big ears, and to reduce the drag on wing tips.
Frigate is a very docile in small turns, and the courve wing panel has a wash out of 2°

Frigate, only dont like windy days, but whit some ballast it goes very fast, up wind.

This canopy spoiler, is an idea from a modeller named Sean Banister, in a model named Algebra, very famous in 80 decade, in F3B meetings, works very well, and cause a lots of drag, whitout increase the model speed on landings.

The big advantage is keep the wing clear all the time.

For the fuselage, I use Lite Ply, and a glass coat of Hobbico 3/4oz and Zap fiishing resin in four coats.

The boom is in Carbon fiber, from a fishing rod and measure 3/4"x34"x3/8", very rigid.

Radio equipment is a JR , whit 2 digital servos, for elevons, and a regular servo for open the canopy.

Super monokote was choosed by its resistence and no Flutter contribuition.

A very simple model, made whit very simple resources.

Cebola
Brazil

[tw126a]

That wing is a work of art. Cebola, I think you have a winner there.

Tom

[BMatthews]

Lovely work Cebola! You should be proud of your new design.

[onlyifamppowered]

Looks great
I'd like plans also
Thanks

[histarter]

As I said Cebola, you are an artist and a great application engineer - as demonstrated by your Figate.
Now with your larger version you are duplicating my research with Big Chicken; a 4 meter Mirage to fly low launch. You should have better success because of the better profiles selected, yielding more airspeed for the weight. :)

[Cebola]

Friends, that's the secret!

Tank's for all, this really encourage me to design and make my experimens in the art of gliders.

Nice words about a very simple model, count a lots for a old modeller , like me.

Sun as I can, I will put the Frigate plans on Rcgroups, for everybody.

In fact tomorrow I will be submited to surgery, but dream about Frigate and my good friends in US, encourage me to continue.

And sun has God permit's I will be here again.

Cebola
Brazil

[BMatthews]

Best of luck with your surgery. I hope it's nothing serious.

[little flyer]

Cant wait to see the plans, at 28 ounces, its lighter than any Bubble Dancer!

[oracle_9]

That does look good.

How strong are the wings? A regular histart (string+rubber tubing) or electric winch can be used???

[Cebola]

About Frigate wings

They are very strong.

A vertical plywood in center of spars like webbings , all , reinforced whit carbon fiber makes a strong wing, good enough for hi starts, and winch.

Dont worry about that!

This wings don't colapse!!

Of course depending of "G" forces


Cebola
Brazil

[seanpcola]

Beautiful bird, Mr. Cebola. Hope all went well with your surgery! Guys, we need to keep this thread alive and do what we can to help and encourage him in this endeavour. :cool: Add me to the list of future Frigate builders!

[Miami Mike]

I'd love to see an R/C glider that actually looks like a frigate bird (http://images.google.com/images?q=frigate+bird&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images) in flight.

http://www.slickrock.com/images/Frigatebird.jpg

[Cebola]

Beautiful bird, Mr. Cebola. Hope all went well with your surgery! Guys, we need to keep this thread alive and do what we can to help and encourage him in this endeavour. :cool: Add me to the list of future Frigate builders!


Thank's a lot, at this momment I am OK, and thinking about this weekend and Frigate searching for thermals in low altittude.

Many years ago, I build a very nice model, the BOT, includding I was thinking in build another one.

But..... Frigate is so docile and so easy to fly, includding on thermals, that I decide to build another one, whit CF on TE, and the wing ribs whit CF cap strips.

Also I am working on Frigate plans in Acad, maybe to cut the wing ribs using a lazer ploter.


Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Thak's a lot, at this momment I am OK, and thinking about this weekend and Frigate searching for thermals in low altittude.

Many years ago, I build a very nice model, the BOT, includding I was thinking in build another one.

But..... Frigate is so docile and so easy to fly, includding on thermals, that I decide to build another one, whit CF on TE, and the wing ribs whit CF cap strips.

Also I am working on Frigate plans in Acad, maybe to cut the wing ribs using a lazer ploter.


Cebola
Brazil
Its good to see you're back Cebola. :)

Your Frigate is a design well tuned for the limitations you have in Brazil. Your application engineering for your slice of the world is excellant. The majority of modelers here in America like to sky out on the winch, and then try to disappear overhead, whereas you do not have that entitlement. :rolleyes:

You have to wrestle with a multitude of thermals attempting to stay within the limits of a permitted altitude - requiring lots of discipline to gain an hour in the air with a design that favors this hit and run thermalling pattern. My hat is off to you my friend, because you really are doing it the hard way, with an excellant design!! :D

[Cebola]

Histarter

Limits are limits, that's the name of the game!!

A big city like São Paulo, have air traffic, birds, houses, and mainly: limits.

It's a matter of live in , or go to fly out.

I do prefer live in, and have a good momments whit my gliders, near my house in any field ( a small one) .

Whinches?

What for?

I have a good hi start, not full of power, and Frigate wings are strong enough to good 400fts climb, whit this old hi start.

Maybe that's the real challenge, live whit the rules, create a model for your field, not a field for your model.

And I love fly, on this way!!


Cebola
Brazil

[claymeyer]

Maybe that's the real challenge, live whit the rules, create a model for your field, not a field for your model.


What a great statement!

[Cebola]

About Frigate wings

In fact , I dont believe that only an Airfoil did not solve the problem of a good glide ratio, or low sinkness.

Wen I designed Frigate wings, I was worry in create something like a bird wing.

So the eliptical second panel, and the trailing edge with movement , give the sensation of that bird wing, the tips exist's only to increase the dihedral, and to avoid the extra drag.

There are some problems like a courve spar, and a very complicated sheeting situation if a realy make it.

Has cover part of wing whit balsa sheetings, only will added mor wheight, I do prefer false ribs to reduce the sag betwen ribs, and reduce the final wheigt.

You may ask, about the torsion efect on the overall wing?

Well, has Windrifter, Paragon and others, Super Monokote solve parcially the problem, and I see no signals of Flutter on Frigate wings, of course deppending of the fly speed.

But, the Frigate brieffing , is for a model to bee flown at low altittude and whit a good glade ratio, and mor than this a docile and light glider.

And that's what Frigate is, a very gentle glider, mainly on bubles or tight thermals.

Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

Frigate family detais

[claymeyer]

Beautiful!!! In my mind, a scientist can build a wing that performs well, but it takes a truly creative person to build a wing that performs well and looks beautiful at the same time. I like how you didn't try to find another solution than a curved spar just because it's more difficult to build. Because it truly is pretty.

I always look forward to seeing your designs! If you ever decide to print plans for the Frigate, I'd love to purchase a copy!!

[Cebola]

Claymeyer

I am fighting against my cumputer to put Frigate in Acad, and sun has I won this game, the plans will be available for all on Rcgroups.

At this momment the drawings are in paper, hand made.

The matter is create a way to put all the wing ribs to be ploted on a lazer system, to reduce the hard work.


Cebola
Brazil

[seanpcola]

Claymeyer said it best. Cebola, we would gladly pay the price for a set of plans when you have them available.

Sean

[Cebola]

Sean

For me, a Brazilian designer is a big proud to see Frigate in other countries, build by other modellers.

In fact we are here on Rcgroups , to share our models whit everybody.

My plans, at this momment are a "prototype draft", but I am redesign it , and sun will be available for all.


Best regards

Cebola
Brazil

[bobby legue]

Cebola,
As we say in America...You are the man! Im sure your generosity will be rewarded.
Thanks,
Bob

[Cebola]

Cebola,
As we say in America...You are the man! Im sure your generosity will be rewarded.
Thanks,
Bob


Bob

In fact all we love the thermal gliders, and for me Frigate is a simple glider for everyone build.

Is a big pleasure for me and a special motivation to create new models.

regards


Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Histarter

Limits are limits, that's the name of the game!!
A big city like São Paulo, have air traffic, birds, houses, and mainly: limits.
It's a matter of live in , or go to fly out.

I do prefer live in, and have a good momments whit my gliders, near my house in any field ( a small one) .

Whinches? What for?

I have a good hi start, not full of power, and Frigate wings are strong enough to good 400fts climb, whit this old hi start.

Maybe that's the real challenge, live whit the rules, create a model for your field, not a field for your model.

And I love fly, on this way!!


Cebola
Brazil
Now lets have some fun with customizing your design. This is just a fun adventure and not the 11th commandment! :eek:

Frigate Airspeed at your loading is about 6mts/sec. If your Frigate wants to enter a 50' spiral to work low lift the bank angle will be 24 degrees. If your TMA is 40" your circular error (amount of control in addition to flight correction) will be 7.6 degrees, correcting for BA, it will be 3 degrees.
1. Shortening TMA to 2' or less will halve this error.

Long TMA equals small tail feathers (that operate at low re 40k at 6mtrs/sec).
Changing TMA to a short 2 feet will enlarge tail feathers for damping just not linearly - meaning that 65k re for a chord increase will be much more effiecient for fast control imput over the sluggish long TMA with the much lower re.
2. Shortening TMA to 2' or less will give more precise control, with less responce time.

And best of all,
3. Doubling stab area would fractionally increase overall drag, if area increase was done by the chord rather than span. And because of re improvement, the stab area doesn't 'grow' that fast!

The reason I am mentioning this is that your tactic of "cap-flying" lift due to altitude limitations, is similar to what I have been doing now for the last 10 years, demonstrating improved thermalling with the Short TMA approach - for the above logical reasons. :D

[histarter]

Just got back from flying my Slow Stick in a cap fly situation over an empty lot a mile from home.
Wind was next to zero, morning air, temp 45 F with subtle changes (lift indicators) - and I got my first 1 hour + flight. My SS is heavy, with 6AA cells and standard size radio, with the wing tripped for low CL advantage. Yes, it is electric, but more than 2/3 of the flight was with motor turned off - while the little guy kept climbing in (light) lift. As you can tell, I got a lift myself out of this adventure. Peak altitude was less than 600 ft. I did have assistance with an occassional red tailed hawk. As you said Cebola, a fun way to fly!

[Motor was used for launch and to quickly pull the craft to productive areas (5 distinct thermals).]

[Cebola]

Pure coincidence!!

Leonardo and me, on sunday and saturday , both we was flying our Slow sticks , those our models , was designed has gliders.


See on: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495702

But, they are very special and whit lot's of fun.

Slow Stick's are a small models, and 400ft. is our limit, because the thermals in São Paulo are very strong, and on our flying field only parkfliers are alowed.

Next weekend, we will be flying the Frigate , on a city near São Paulo, on a big field but whit many limitations because air traffic.

But, has a lot of fun fly on 400ft. altitude.


Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

In this weekend I flied the Frigate in a pretty field lawn, in a city close to São Paulo.

Mine histart measures 100 meters, including the rubber, and this propitiates a height of 400ft.

It is exactly there that a light model has great advantages.

It can fly thermal in low height and very closed curves, besides very easy and docile to fly.

A real plasure!!

Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

More about Frigate

http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/pdfs/RCSD-2009/RCSD-2009-06.pdf


Cebola
Brazil

[condor-60]

.....Cebola you have ever so mastered the wing planform of the "Frigate Pelican" and should be applauded for its design. I have also thought the Frigate wing planform was one of gods creation in flight design. I have also always thought that Frank Zaics "Thermic-100" came close to resembling the Frigates wing planform and have decided to include it as a an optional wing for his "Floater G-110" that I have brought back in kit form. I intend to call it the "Man-O-War" which is the nickname given to the Frigate Pelican. Hopefully with the Floater G-110's fuselage and sporting a new V-Tail design the "Man-O-War" will appear to resemble that of the Frigate in flight.

Thanks for reading
Condor-60

[Cebola]

.....Cebola you have ever so mastered the wing planform of the "Frigate Pelican" and should be applauded for its design. I have also thought the Frigate wing planform was one of gods creation in flight design. I have also always thought that Frank Zaics "Thermic-100" came close to resembling the Frigates wing planform and have decided to include it as a an optional wing for his "Floater G-110" that I have brought back in kit form. I intend to call it the "Man-O-War" which is the nickname given to the Frigate Pelican. Hopefully with the Floater G-110's fuselage and sporting a new V-Tail design the "Man-O-War" will appear to resemble that of the Frigate in flight.

Thanks for reading
Condor-60

Hi Condor

Well, in fact I AM an old timer modeler.
One of my best models was the Brooklyn Dodger, also the Quaker.
Frigate wing platform was designed on a shore, watching the Frigate on a thermal.
I totally disagree whit white bright and flat wings, tapered or not, mainly fiberglass, whit no drama or poetry.
Mother Nature uses curve lines in anything, bird’s animals, and on human body design also.

I know that curve lines are difficult to design or build, but they have poetry, they remain or try to remain something more organic.

I understand that a wing full of ribs, curve, and also light is a very complicated thing, but what is the challenge without difficulties?

On the way, I have a very old book from Frank Zaic, to inspire me, and on this book the things are totally different, compared whit the conception of this days.

Best regards

Cebola
Brazil

[condor-60]

.....Cebola your Frigate looks to be "poetry in motion" and thats what its all about.

Classics Forever
Condor-60