Thermals in England?

[simonbryant]

How strong are the thermals in England in the spring/summer?

Anyone hit an hours flight from a flat feild?

[Leo the Lion]

Flying last weekend fom the flat field. Light to moderate north- north westerly with broken Cu.Fell off the winch. Thinking about landing, when a gaggle of gulls started circling in front of me at about 100-150ft. I joined them and started following them round, drifting back, climbing away. First really defined thermal marked by birds, I've seen this year. I was in the right place at the right time :)

Leo the Lion

[histarter]

Flying last weekend fom the flat field. Light to moderate north- north westerly with broken Cu.Fell off the winch. Thinking about landing, when a gaggle of gulls started circling in front of me at about 100-150ft. I joined them and started following them round, drifting back, climbing away. First really defined thermal marked by birds, I've seen this year. I was in the right place at the right time :)

Leo the Lion
Golly, your British gulls are more friendly than the American Livingston Seagulls that I am familiar with. ;)

I find them extremely territorial to a column of lift, and will lie (bailing out) and jump into other nearby lift (now theirs), even if inferior! A behaviour pattern totally diferent then hawks and buzzards. :)

Knowing the advosarial attitude helps to make them very informative. :eek:

[Davross]

Not done it in 15 years (how long I've taken a break from the hobby) but have done an hour flight in the UK with a Gentle Lady.

Just waiting til my Trio is finished to try again this year now I'm thermaling again :)

[Jurgen]

Does the british thermals still rise in inches, or do they already rise in metric?
Jurgen.

PS: i want to know because i burned a candle for al brits thermals to come to the right side of the channel this year :p

[GeeW]

Hi Simon
From my log notes from last year. Longest flight 2:15 (with acute neckache for a day after). 9 flights better than 1.5 hrs.
Best recorded rate of climb on LoLo2 logger 1200' min for one and a half minutes. Lots of climbs better than 800' min.
Longest climb......18 minutes to gain 30'.....then hit hedge on final glide back to field!
A vario & logger have certainly helped me up my game a notch.

Typically in the late spring I would expect climb rates of 400 to 600 feet/min once you are up to 700' or above. Low down anything going up is good news if the wind isnt to strong. Late summer thermals can be similar to 1500' then go balistic so that by 2500' with airbrakes out and diving you are happy to just coming down a little bit.
Climb rates depend on the history of the weather as much as the weather on the day (ie how damp is the ground and where you are in the country)

Have fun

GeeW

[Peytr]

I'm not in the UK but just on the other side of the North sea. I guess you'll have the same, probably better terrein than we have here. I think the soil generally is dryer and we have the best thermal activity on the dryer (sandy) terrain.

Anyhow: In spring (march is ok but from april onwards it gets better, peaking somwhere in june most years) thermals are the strongest. You'll get your one hour flights all right, but not every single day. Long flights are not allways a result of strong thermals. When your plane goes up like crazy you do want to get out and stay at safe (visible) altidtudes. As a result one often looses the thermal.
I've had many long flights when the air is a bit less hairy. Often I get very long flight in october and november. I know it sounds (and probably is) silly but I feel it is possible to stay on top of a thermal current in these, less favorable, conditions. In summer the last thermals of the day often get you long flights as well.

[Brian Wa]

How strong are the thermals in England in the spring/summer?

Anyone hit an hours flight from a flat feild?

Simon, I note you are building Electric gliders in another part of the forum, You need to be more specific, are you referring to pure gliders or Electric gliders.

Are you referring to a flight of One Hour from a single 30 second motor run on an electric glider?
Or a One hour flight from several short motor runs in an electric glider?
Or a One hour flight from a winch / tow launch with a thermal glider ?


A One-hour flight from several short motor runs with an electric glider is only a question of having sufficient battery capacity.

[kwmtrubrit]

Does the british thermals still rise in inches, or do they already rise in metric?
Jurgen.

PS: i want to know because i burned a candle for al brits thermals to come to the right side of the channel this year :p

Hey Jurgen,

If you burn enough candles, you will create your own thermals. The British thermals turn the wrong way for Europeans to use anyway. Your plane will fly backwards. :rolleyes:

Keith

[histarter]

A One-hour flight from several short motor runs with an electric glider is only a question of having sufficient battery capacity.

I am developing a cute game for electric soaring at my club field.

2 classes, below 1000 MAH, or above. One full charge. One full day to accomplish task. Air good - launch and fly, air bad come home quickly and land. No recharging - unless for second attempt i.e. starting over. Scoring is total time flown times number of launches, minus cost of batteries! Currently I am using a Slow Stick, and it is quite amusing having to tailor flying patterns around meteorology. Skill is needed to meter power out assisting lift for maximizing climb, knowing when to get out of the way of a downer cycle quickly by landing. And wing tripping is now used to get airspeed up for fast returns, or zipping to know lift areas. ;)

Class 1 best score so far is 45min X 4 launches = 180 - $12 = 168 points.
Obviously not a world class contest, but fun for small groups. Our more serious guys will worry about international money conversions - for the sake of argument, I am sure. :p

[simonbryant]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your replys, basically it was just a casual question! last summer i tried and tried and tried to thermal an ascent glider but had little prevail. I know its down to my lack of knowlege in thermaling and i know it's a black art and takes months/years to be succesful in reading what the air is doing. I'm going to invest in a Vario which i hope will help me identify patches of lift at my field.

All my models are Electric sailplanes, so my aim is to run at 20s to get to altitude fold the prop and start working at what lift is available to me.....well thats the plan anyway! :)

[Brian Wa]

Save the cost of a vario, spend it on another model, varios only confirm what your eyes tell you.
They are useful on the slope if the model is a long way beneath you, or if the model is directly overhead on th eflat field, with careful planning and flying you shouldn't be in that situation anyway.
You can see when the model is in lift or sink, the vario only confirms this.

[POF]

It’s true the vario often just confirm what you can see but I think a vario is a good way to learn thermal flying. It's good for practicing to find the core of the thermal, and it's good when the model is some distance from you (vertical or horizontal).

[simonbryant]

Ok, but what about for pilots like me that can't see or detect thermals...surely this is where the Vario excels...??

[kwmtrubrit]

Hey Simon,

No one can "see" thermals. Watching the plane and seeing it react to lift or sink is the key. I've only been doing this for a couple of years, but the best way to start is the old fashioned way, " you learn it." I kid you not, much more fulfilling. Where are you flying over there? Maybe the location isn't condicive to good thermals. I considered getting a vario too, but decided against it. However, the bottom line is, whatever you choose is the right thing to do.

Keith

[simonbryant]

Keith,

Yeah i did'nt mean "see" thermals i meant as in detect the model climbing, but i can never tell when the model is physically climbing.....even when i used to do some full size gliding, when at the airfeild some piolts used to say " oh he's in lift" but i could never see that until the glider had climbed a good 300 +ft or so.

I live in the south of the UK approx 30 minutes from Oxford, in a county called Buckinghshire, do you know it?

[EricSoar]

Regarding learning to thermal ...

After sloping for a few years, my first thermal model was a relatively high performance F3B winch glider. This did not set me up well to learn to thermal. I did gain height on some flights by flying areas of "good air" rather than "bad air". "Good air" usually being very wide but weak thermals or standing waves. However the model was too fast and heavy to signal thermal presence well.

When I got a bungy launched 2 metre Spirit (rudder/elevator), then I started to learn to thermal. That Spirit was so light it signalled thermal presence well. With this I could learn to understand how thermals behave even though my average flight time was less than with the F3B model (due to lower launch height).

I now have a 2.7 metre thermal electric glider with an 11 oz/sqft wing loading. The wings are built up with an open structure covered in film. This signals thermals almost as well as the Spirit. The longer flight times given by the motor have really let me learn how to thermal much better. I now consider the following factors to find thermals.
- Wing tip movement
- nose/tail rise and fall
- Cloud shape and colour
- Changes in the wind strength and direction on my face
- Turbulent looking flying of the model

I have a higher wingloading electric warmliner too. I find this difficult to thermal because it does not signal thermal presence much and has a large turning circle.

If you are finding it hard to learn to thermal, consider lowering your wing loading. For an electric thermaller this might mean changing from NiCd/NiMh to Lipo.

Happy thermals.

[kwmtrubrit]

Keith,

Yeah i did'nt mean "see" thermals i meant as in detect the model climbing, but i can never tell when the model is physically climbing.....even when i used to do some full size gliding, when at the airfeild some piolts used to say " oh he's in lift" but i could never see that until the glider had climbed a good 300 +ft or so.

I live in the south of the UK approx 30 minutes from Oxford, in a county called Buckinghshire, do you know it?

Sure I know where you are. I'm originally from over there. London to be exact. I left the U.K in 1997. Where did you do your full sized gliding? I started mine at RAF Kenley, compliments of the Air Training Corps, a great organisation in my opinion. I ended up at Kenley as a Staff Cadet after getting my certificate for ridge soaring at a field called Halesland. That was an experience in its self.

Keith

[ToniGe23]

Hi Simonbryant,

If you look on the UK BARCS web site we have a thermal competition called the Peterbourough Winter Series that runs from september till march on the second sunday of the month, you will notice we fly during christmas as well as you know how cold the weather has been look at our flight times there are many max`s in other words pilots flying 10 minutes and having to come out of the lift to land within the appointed slot time.

So if it is`nt raining there`s always lift about somewhere :rolleyes:

As you are in the Oxford area I will be at a `Open` comp at Islip Oxford with about 30 others for the first summer comp of the season you are very welcome to come and watch the flyers and if you like you can stand by me and I can tell you how to detect lift with the model and where to look for lift in the area. :cool:

tony.

[simonbryant]

Sure I know where you are. I'm originally from over there. London to be exact. I left the U.K in 1997. Where did you do your full sized gliding? I started mine at RAF Kenley, compliments of the Air Training Corps, a great organisation in my opinion. I ended up at Kenley as a Staff Cadet after getting my certificate for ridge soaring at a field called Halesland. That was an experience in its self.

Keith

So you moved to the US then? Did you have relatives in the US prior to moving?

My Gliding was done in a village called Haddenham NR Thame, i was aged 18-22 years old at the time, i'm now 35, at the time when i used to fly they used to be the open T-21, bloody cold in the winter....anyway it used to be one of the cheapest clubs in the UK at an average of £1 a flight, i think even today a pleasure flight will only cost you a tenner...

[simonbryant]

Hi Simonbryant,

If you look on the UK BARCS web site we have a thermal competition called the Peterbourough Winter Series that runs from september till march on the second sunday of the month, you will notice we fly during christmas as well as you know how cold the weather has been look at our flight times there are many max`s in other words pilots flying 10 minutes and having to come out of the lift to land within the appointed slot time.

So if it is`nt raining there`s always lift about somewhere :rolleyes:

As you are in the Oxford area I will be at a `Open` comp at Islip Oxford with about 30 others for the first summer comp of the season you are very welcome to come and watch the flyers and if you like you can stand by me and I can tell you how to detect lift with the model and where to look for lift in the area. :cool:

tony.

Hi,

I'm deffiently up for spectating at Islip, i'm about 20 mins away....do you have any dates to hand! is this done on a flat field?

Simon

[ToniGe23]

Hi,

I'm deffiently up for spectating at Islip, i'm about 20 mins away....do you have any dates to hand! is this done on a flat field?

Simon

Ok,

I will be flying at Frognest Farm, Islip, Oxforshire on Sunday 7th May 06 that is a BARCS `OPEN`
I will also be flying in an f3j compertition at Marsh Gibbon Farm, Oxfordshire on Sunday 23rd April 06.
These are on flat fields and we will be using winches and 2 man hand towing :)

give me your email address on a private message on this site and I can give you exact details and times.

tony.

[simonbryant]

Ok,

I will be flying at Frognest Farm, Islip, Oxforshire on Sunday 7th May 06 that is a BARCS `OPEN`
I will also be flying in an f3j compertition at Marsh Gibbon Farm, Oxfordshire on Sunday 23rd April 06.
These are on flat fields and we will be using winches and 2 man hand towing :)

give me your email address on a private message on this site and I can give you exact details and times.

tony.


Hi Tony,

Thanks pm sent.

[psoff3x]

Hi Simon

Barcs website referred to by Tony here:
http://www.barcs.co.uk/

and calendar here:
http://home.clara.net/barcs/2006res/01calendar-byclass.htm

You'd be welcome at any of them, just make yourself known.

Pete

[ToniGe23]

Hi Simon

Barcs website referred to by Tony here:
http://www.barcs.co.uk/

and calendar here:
http://home.clara.net/barcs/2006res/01calendar-byclass.htm

You'd be welcome at any of them, just make yourself known.

Pete


Hi Pete,

Ooops I forgot to pump our web site will BARCS forgive me :D

tony

[kwmtrubrit]

So you moved to the US then? Did you have relatives in the US prior to moving?

My Gliding was done in a village called Haddenham NR Thame, i was aged 18-22 years old at the time, i'm now 35, at the time when i used to fly they used to be the open T-21, bloody cold in the winter....anyway it used to be one of the cheapest clubs in the UK at an average of £1 a flight, i think even today a pleasure flight will only cost you a tenner...

Hey Simon,

No family over here, not until I married my wife anyway. All the British family still live there, primarily in the Kent area with one in Sussex and some moved to Doncaster :eek: Sorry you Dony's, just kidding. I know what you mean about the open cockpit. I flew the Slingsby T31 ( 1st solo'd in it), T21 and the solo Slingsby that I think was called the Prefect. I flew from Kenley (T31) one day with snow on the ground and got a face full upon landing. All of my flights were winch launch, however, recently I went up for my first aero tow. Much more civilised. I'm thinking about getting back into it, but have a problem spending that kind of money for sailplanes when I could use it for power and really use the ability to fly. But my true "love" is sailplanes. What a dilema. What a load of b*******! I actually spelled out the word and the system kicked out, how funny. Age wise, I'm now 56. Young fart.

Keith

[psoff3x]

Hey Tony

You might end up with an audience now ;)

Pete

[Brian Wa]

Roped off spectator areas, entrance fees, portable toilets, hot dog vans, warning signs, crowd control personnel !!!!

The mind boggles.