Training Regime

[Trisquire]

How often do top level European F3P competitors practice? How many flights do they typically execute during a practice session? How much simulator time?

Regards,
Tom

[pkruse]

Anyone on this one? I too am very interested in hearing how contest pilots train.

Paul K.

[Jeff Pfeifer]

I typically try to fly about 20 -30 flights a week when preparing for a big competition, then of course some sim time on top of that.

JP

[Trisquire]

Thanks Jeff. Do you typically try to perfect the maneuvers on the sim first? Do they transition smoothly to "real life?" I listened to the interview with 10 year old E-Fest heli competitor, Kyle Stacey. He spends 2 hours a night on the sim. That explains a few things.

Regards,
Tom

[Jeff Pfeifer]

I don't try to perfect the manuvers on the sim, but use the sim for working out new manuvers, rolling/snapping combos, ect... Then I try to bring what I learned on the sim to the real airplane and then try to perfect it on the real thing. The sims do not fly 100% accurate so I just use them when I want to try some thing new to prevent "dumb thumbitis," then transfer that over to the real stuff as soon as I am comfortable.

[Dan Landis]

I agree with Jeff 100%, I try to fly about 20 fligths or so also, maybe more for big events. The sim is good for trying new things before you feel ready to try it with a plane at the gym or even out doors.

Dan

[Trisquire]

Thank you gentlemen.

Regards,
Tom

[blucor basher]

Ahhh....if only I HAD two hours per night for the sim....

[fwilly]

If only I had a sim :(

[byoung]

What simulator is doing the best job of emulating these indoor pattern planes? Could I do any good with Real Flight G2?

Brad

[Trisquire]

Ahhh....if only I HAD two hours per night for the sim....
I may have the two hours. I just lack the discipline.

Tom

[Trisquire]

If only I had a sim :(

fwilly, As good as you fly you don't have a sim?

I thought you could talk about your setup on this forum. Your emphasis on light weight is right up our alley. Even your flying style seems kind of F3P-ish to me. See post # 4 on this thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491696

Regards,
Tom

[fwilly]

Nope no sim. No computer that would run one either. Had FMS for a little while a couple years ago, but it wasn't up to what I wanted it to do.

I may start a thread on my 3.5-4oz version once its finished. The 4.625oz version does OK at F3P too, but I have high hopes for the lighter version.

[StephanieSchwan]

Hi!

I try to go every weekend in the gym, if it is possible, in the winter and in the summer. I nearly don´t fly outdoor. But we are always 4 - 10 pilots. So I only get 10 -15 flights a day.
When I start learning to fly four years ago, I practised a lot with the simulator. But my simulator training was getting less and less and the last year I practiced perhaps only five hours with Aerofly.
But I intend to train more with the simulator the next time.
I prefere training in the gym. But to learn torqueing really save or rolls right and left, so that there is no more prefered direction,... it´s going faster safety with the simulator.

Best regards,
Stephanie

[Malves]

So I only get 10 -15 flights a day.

Heh, I wish I could get that many flights on one day.

[matchlessaero]

I don't feel I'm at the same level as Dan (pttrnflyer) or Jeff, Many years of practice to go before I get there!

However, I did manage to do progressively better in each comp this year so far, which tells me the practice I've done, along with the experience I've gained is helping me to get better.

I have gone to 3 FreeStyle competitions this year (understandably a Freestyle/AM is not a Pattern comp). Before each comp, I spent at least 4 mornings (5 mornings for 2 of them) in the gym. I was getting 3 runs per battery and I have 6 batteries. I would use one battery to work on individual maneuvers, and part of one to get used to the air and wake myself up. That would give me approx 12 -14 runs through my full routine.

I would then spend approx 1 hour a night on my sim. I use Aerofly Pro deluxe. I have a GiantScale Yak55 on the sim which I've tuned to fly similar to my Kestrel's that I was using in competition. I tried to do my basic choreography on the sim as well, but IMO, there is no substitute to actually flying your competition plane in a facility to the one you will compete in.......

[fwilly]

In both competitions I went to this year, the first time I flew to the song I used was the first round of competition. I didn't have anywhere around here to practice. Then we had our first local indoor fly in and there is talk of flying there on a regular basis. If that really happens, then I will be much better prepared next year.

[Trisquire]

Thank you for the additional input on training techniques.

Regards,
Tom

[Armin Mangelmann]

Well, i do split into two chapters:

1. F3p
2. F3p am

For both of them i use the afpro deluxe to train the sequenzes.
Normal patternflying is just to get a little routine and not forget any figures, usually i only use the sim for getting used to the total figures, due to the models we now fly indoor, there is hardly any chance to practíce this outdoor. Even minor winds will make it hard to train real good, so try to get used to the figures on calm days...of course it is better to train in an real gyms, as plenty of space is not useful for practice.

2.
AM, i mainly trained my last years routine on the sim, i did choose the music and than trained fitting figures for it...problem this year, as we need vpp figures, it is hard to get it going realistically, as the vpp model in afp is not really good..so , this year am routine will be just trained under real conditions, which is bad, as we do not have so much air time indoors..

Mainly, i use the sim for all kind of new stuff in 3-d figures, which i did not fly indoors,yet...i practiced the rolling loop hundreds of times, before i tried it indoors for the first time, but it really helps keeping the fingers fast..

For my first bigger outdoor season this year, i want to achieve a nice routine to music and participate in some pattern contests, i will use the big extra from 3 w on the sim and get used to the pattern sequenzes, then i start adapting this outdoor....
For the am outdoor i also will try to built a model on the sim which is kind of the same like my real model and than try to find a nice routine to music...
For indoor i could use the sim for planning the music routine, i could adopt it really good in real life. i suppose it is the same for outdoor..

Training time, well, i try to get one sim hour per day, sometimes it is 3 hours, sometimes none..
Fun is not to be lost...so just have fun with it and you will have plenty of progress..

KR
armin

[Aio_1]

What airplanes are you using with Aerofly-Pro Deluxe for realistic indoor performance?

I've downloaded a Slow-ride, Monsoon and Spirit Indian but I'm not sure how realistic they are. I suppose I'll have a better idea once I get a few flights in a gym next week!

Aidan

[Armin Mangelmann]

Well, i do not really care which model, i do use all of them, with lots of throws etc...
I try to have it more agile then the real ones, with way overreacting flying abilities....in this way, you crash alot during practicing new maneuvers, on the other hand, flying with your own plane in real world is like slowmotion..


kr
armin

[Trisquire]

Thank you Armin. That's very helpful.

Regards,
Tom

[matchlessaero]

Aidan, one of the best tricks to learn on Aerofly is to not try to match the 'size' of airplane on the sim to what you're flying in real life..... Most of the GiantScale airplanes fly much more realistically overall when compared to the foamies.

To that effect, I fly a lightened Comp Arf Yak 55 on the sim. I have the throws bumped up, the Cg somewhat more aft, and the sim speed slowed slightly.... This makes it fly much like my monoplane foamies that I use for freestlyes.

I hope that helps some....

[Aio_1]

Aidan, one of the best tricks to learn on Aerofly is to not try to match the 'size' of airplane on the sim to what you're flying in real life..... Most of the GiantScale airplanes fly much more realistically overall when compared to the foamies.

To that effect, I fly a lightened Comp Arf Yak 55 on the sim. I have the throws bumped up, the Cg somewhat more aft, and the sim speed slowed slightly.... This makes it fly much like my monoplane foamies that I use for freestlyes....
Thanks for the advice. That's actually very close to what I've been doing. I've got my own versions of the supplied Extra and Giles with reduced weight, increased throws and prop wash effect with aft CG and less prop pitch. I've also played with some downloaded designs (the Slow-ride, Monsoon and Indian Spirit I mentioned earlier) to practice with the indoor scenery. Using the large planes in the gym is unrealistic. I'm really just wondering how close I am to realistic indoor simulation. Hopefully I'll be flying indoors this saturday and will be able to decide for myself once I've tried the real thing.

Aidan

[Harry D]

Am I right in concluding from the comments here that Aerofly would be the sim of choice for this sort of thing? I'm planning on getting a sim but have no idea how the various alternatives compare.

Thanks,
Harry

[Trisquire]

I posted a question in the 3D forum. This was the response from 3 year old Justin Chi's father:

"If you are an adult flyer, I would say start with Realflight G3 for basic flying, go to AFPD for 3D and once you master it there go back to G3 as it is more difficult to do 3D maneuvers.

Best behaving stock plane I found in G3 is Cap 580 in G3 Expansion addon.
Yak 54 3D in G3 is very twitch yet still will not hold K-E at low rate as stock. In fact it barely holds KE at high speed at full ruder deflection in low rate which is unrealistic.

As I said, I got G3 for Justin as a tough love as it stalls and snaps easy with extra elev deflection.

Trisq:

G3 is much improved over G2. If you are getting into 3D, go straight to AFPD."