Help our COUNTRY!!! USA!!!

[mithrandir]

Once again I send out a call for engineeringly inclined RC folk to consider my company for employement!!

http://www.uav.com/jobfair/

and

http://search9.smartsearchonline.com/generalatomics/jobs_asi/adhocjobsearch.asp

Awesome place for airplane guys to design airplanes and support equipment that actually make a difference!!!!
Put that engineering degree to good work!!!

[space_case]

Application submitted.

[vintage1]

Too old, wrong country, and wrong politics :D

[Padesatka]

Wrong politics indeed: Interested engineers should carefully consider whether assisting present US leadership to continue employing UAVs in highly-provocative attacks and assassinations is really "helping our country".

[banktoturn]

Wrong politics indeed: Interested engineers should carefully consider whether assisting present US leadership to continue employing UAVs in highly-provocative attacks and assassinations is really "helping our country".

That's certainly worth considering. Something else to consider: policy will be implemented with the tools at hand. Would you rather have policy implemented with B52s or UAVs? I have the view that tools like sophisticated UAVs allow policy to be implemented in a much more positive way, even if the powers-that-be have some questionable policies.

banktoturn

[raptor22]

Anything applicable for a summer job?

[vintage1]

That's certainly worth considering. Something else to consider: policy will be implemented with the tools at hand. Would you rather have policy implemented with B52s or UAVs? I have the view that tools like sophisticated UAVs allow policy to be implemented in a much more positive way, even if the powers-that-be have some questionable policies.

banktoturn

I'd rather policy was implemented by compromise and trading.

I've spent my bit of career designing advanced weapons.

My ultmate feeling is that if I was the one using them, fine, but handing them over to politicians, was not ideal.

[mithrandir]

Wrong politics indeed: Interested engineers should carefully consider whether assisting present US leadership to continue employing UAVs in highly-provocative attacks and assassinations is really "helping our country".

On september 11th... could you see the smoke from where you are?

[vintage1]

On september 11th... could you see the smoke from where you are?

Nop, but I don't design Boeings either.

Or AK47's, or even cars.

[Padesatka]

"On september 11th... could you see the smoke from where you are?"

Yes, and the mirrors too. From that day forward, many people who have had prior experiences with terrorism can recognize the difference between focused response and diversion. The dynamics of society and terrorism did not change on 9-11, even though the tragedy has been a highly-exploited national shock and insult.

We've long had our revenge for 9-11, inflicting manyfold death and suffering upon both our terrorist enemies and upon innocents. Now it is in our most vital national interest for Americans to heed both the Founders and hard lessons of history, which warn of the dangers to our democracy presented by leaders and pundits who primarily operate using fear to quash rationality.

One point of rationality is the realization that we are each responsible for our actions. Accordingly, we should not be arming up or assisting those on both sides who are irresponsibly escalating a fight that will only be "won" by the powers who are staying above the fray.

Both Israel and the United States have been employing UAVs in highly-provocative attacks that do not risk aircrew, yet contribute greatly to destabilization. Presently, these particular weapons systems are uniquely tempting for leaders who would use force while seeking to avoid the consequences of personal and political responsibility. But all the advantages of UAVs will not preclude political and economic consequences of rogue policy from coming home to roost.

Persons of conscience who are considering contributing their talents to military UAV development should carefully examine the specific uses these weapons are being put to, and the consequnces- if not with pure ethics, then with practicality: It is a fact of geology and economics that a "New American Century" will require the goodwill and respect of the outside world in order to flourish. Present leadership is consistently and spectacularly bungling this vital national interest, and no smoke and mirrors should distract us.

[I'm Rick James]

WOW, this thread took off in the wrong direction. Kinda like a misguided missile!

All I wanted to do was say how bummed I was that I missed the opportunity to check out the jobs. Not that I have the right degrees or anything but I can sure fly the hell outta whatever needs flying! And then go back and fix it after it breaks!!

Take the politics elsewhere guys, please.

RJ

[Padesatka]

Sorry if the trajectory alarms you, RJ.

But there is a clear trajectory of the disaster our country has agreed to set in motion on Iraq, and resultantly upon the Mideast region generally,on our international reputation, and our national energy interests.

The Iraq conflict, and other regional flare-ups, are going to rely heavily on UAVs for weapons delivery.

Targeting for which we do not reliably possess in real time.

Why? Because conversations like this seem like confusing alarmist foreign talk to most Americans. And to many Americn intel operatives.

This is why, after some reflection, I'm not taking the politics elsewhere. I am an American, proud of my rights and so compelled to shout about the consequences of each of our personal actions in relation to the Big Picture. Especially the smart ones among us who do very interesting things (which are normally accompanied by large repercussions).

Google up the types of attacks the US and Israel have been carrying out with Predator and Predator II. Don't be a remote-control sniper and a homocidal wedding-crasher. Help America. You, Esseh.

[BrunswickOH]

Sounds like a terrific company and very interesting work, if I were in the area I'd love the opportunity to tour a facility like that.

Jim

[Padesatka]

Just look for the gates with Padesatka picketing in front.

[raptor22]

I do have to agree that when people chant "USA" it sorta makes me gag a bit. Being proud of a certain aspect of your country is one thing, but blind patriotism is quite another.

The worst is when they bring up 9/11. To some people, 9/11 is an excuse for anything. We could be attacking CHINA for god sakes and people would still blame it on 9/11.

--Alex

[Padesatka]

Scaled Composites (http://www.scaled.com/careers/index.html), raptor. They do so much more than killbots, understanding that with accelerating technology we increasingly are what we create.http://www.scaled.com/images/project-thumbs/raptor.jpg

[BrunswickOH]

Imagine what it would be if the technology that you worked on was able to save the life of even a single member of the military. What a feeling that must be, I could only imagine.

Jim

[Sparky Paul]

Back in January 1991, when that first LGB went precisely thru the central airshaft of the Iraqi Air Force Headquarters skyscraper in Baghdad.. the thrill I felt at having some hand in working towards making that possible was incredible! Yee-Hah!

[BrunswickOH]

edited to remove comment that was offensive to........somebody I guess.


Jim

[rick.benjamin]

Back in January 1991, when that first LGB went precisely thru the central airshaft of the Iraqi Air Force Headquarters skyscraper in Baghdad.. the thrill I felt at having some hand in working towards making that possible was incredible! Yee-Hah!

With you there!
Never did well in a circular argument.
Tend to go for the throat.
Circulars believe in peace at any cost.
I perceive peace, through superior firepower.
Rules? Losers whine about rules.
Semper Fidelis
Rick

[Troy]

...

[miljnor]

Let me first say that that is an insightful well written post Padesatka. (mine will probably be a little more blathering J )

I agree with your observation that this technology is becoming more and more commonplace and that it is indeed a more tempting Technology for the reasons state. But I don't believe you are correct when saying the technology leads to this behavior.

What I think is happening is that the global/national desensitizing to what is acceptable for a government to do, is more the cause. We have always had ways to take out targets with very little or no "headlines" as it were.

To us these methods may seam easier, or more convenient, but they do have one drawback, which most politicians do realize, is that they mark every incidence with our (or whomever’s) signature (which a normal assassination does not).

This I think comes down to the typical gun argument. If there were no guns you wouldn’t have all these gun deaths. This is a true statement as far as it goes but what it doesn’t state is that most if not all the deaths would still occur they just wouldn’t be “gun deaths”

I think really what should be looked upon is that today’s governments really need to be scrutinized by the people and actions need to be taken to prevent the government from doing what it does best, and that is “Take your money and take your freedom”. Does anyone really feel safer after 9/11? I would think the average joe on the street would say yes, but all of those realists out there know better. But we all know that our freedom took a Big hit that day.

I think we truly need to work on raising the knowledge and intelligence level of the average citizen and empower the people far more about what laws go into effect and who gets elected. I personally think that this will help far more than any weapon regulation or fear mongering will.

To give an example: A friend of mine (who I think is a rather intelligent individual) Always seams to argue the non-violent/let the government handle it approach (opposite of me, Of course) I think the reason for this is: his fear “index” is higher than mine (like a lot of the population) meaning If someone try’s to mug me I will just assume they are going to shoot and rob me so I will fight for my life where as he on the other hand would hope that if he took no aggressive action the Mugger will just take his money and not his life. Both actions are a valid response. Personally I think my action results in me taking responsibility for the outcome where’ as his is relying on the “good nature” of a obvious miscreant.

Now the only reason I bring the above scenario up isn’t to start an argument on who’s action is right or wrong (personally I think they are both right just for different personalities) it is to illustrate the difference in thinking. My philosophy is to be prepared or failing that be prepared for the consequences of you actions (or lack thereof) His response is to try to regulate/litigate put an unbelievable (and unwanted) amount of surveillance/law enforcement on the job to prevent this. Which comes down to my belief that you should be in control of your own fate and not let the government do it for you.

So I would say to you that the weapons we make aren’t maybe necessary but they aren’t the cause of the problem. And despite how they may be used, until there are NO aggressors, every country needs to be able to defend itself and its interests. And it seams to me that making a new couple of hundred laws and regulations a year does nothing more than losing a grain of sand out of our already tightly grasped hand. So what we really need is a government that is better implemented and serves the people’s needs much much better. (I don’t know of any government that does this, although I’ve been told the Swiss do a fair job)

[Mel Duval]

Back in January 1991, when that first LGB went precisely thru the central airshaft of the Iraqi Air Force Headquarters skyscraper in Baghdad.. the thrill I felt at having some hand in working towards making that possible was incredible! Yee-Hah!

Hi Sparky,
I fully understand.
Let's see, 17 years on air-to-air missiles (that have 5 wartime kills), three years air-to-ground (with a few caves destroyed here and there...), three years on target drones and now trying to make weapons safer for the men and women that load and use them, I feel the same.


BTW, I would like to get a job with a UAV company when I grow up. In a heartbeat.

Mel D.

[EagleOne]

Some what related to this UAV thread
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change

[miljnor]

Cool video, but is it independently verifiable?

[treehog]

Some what related to this UAV thread
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...&q=loose+change



I only seen 50% so far but if even 1% is true then it realy puts the cat among the pigions like who the goodies and whos the baddies in this crap shoot

I personnaly am relectant to get get hooked into conspircy theories but there is some points in loose change that not easy to gloss over without checking into some of this stuff


my own limited reasearch indicates at best the goverments of America and Britian have told us real porkies in this war in terrorizm that they would prefer we forgot

well i dont for one forget certian things

I always look to see who get the most cookies from these events and its as usaual the number one culpit the ARMS DEALERS and THE ARMS DEALERS and......

So we come back to basics young men go to war to fight to protect old mens economic interests dressed up as help your country or some such call to ARMS

Anyway this stack of crud didnt come from nowhere it was built and the interesting events started in with the Faulklands wars where a new practice came into being a profitable war engineered with a little help from a practice called baiting the trap

First elements you need are government forces knee deep in helping ARMs dealers to line thier pockets

Bait the trap for some local tin pot dictator like Argintina and remove all forces from the Island so that they get the come on
you wont mind if that tin pot invades those stupid Isands
and when he does throw a wobbly and march off to war
and boot them out and get relected and everybody lives happly ever after except the poor stupid solders on both sides who were dead or injured for life in some boring hospital with no legs or arms or worse


Along comes Hussain what a catch to bait wait for him to take Kuwait buy infering you cant see whats the problem with one bit of sand versus another bit call it 19th dept of Iraq or former Kuwait who cares its all bedowin 1000 year argy bargy stuff and who cares

He invades and throw a UN wobbly seeing as America pays the lighting bills it dictates the agenda and off to war we go yet again
accept at the last second they dump Margret Thatcher Prime Minister of Great Britians Forces because her stupid son got tooooo close to the ARMS dealers and could make the allies look BAD

Quick face change and OLD Bush BABY SENIOR wins the WAR and everybody lives happlily ever after accept for the poor stupid soldiers on all sides that got dead or injured and the americans discover that KUWAIT
isn't a pair of kinky underpants or a new soft drink but the sign of American power freeing a country from a tryanny not that the previous King was so noble in his financing of Iraq to fight the Iranians in a war that killed 2 million solders from Iraq and Iran and triggered the invasion because he demanded Iraq repay the war loans now the war was over

Now all this time in the background the CIA from the 80s is training old baddy BIN LADEN BABY to fight thase commy so and so in Afganastan and givin him top range SAMs or RAPIERS whatever to shoot down Russian
hele copters and destroy tanks and what do you know the little monkey got a bit big for his boots and decided to turn on the Americans not withstanding that the Bin Laden family has eneogh money to nearly buy New York and thier economic power reaches into the deepest pockets of American power and milatary might and keeps ARMS dealers very very very rich

And so it came to pass that the world of real politics it is most likely in the long run that old Bin Laden Baby will probably get old King whatever in Saudi thrown of his seat of power and then Bin Laden Baby will become head huncho in Saudi so whats the new plan
give him whatever he wants so the Americans can be the first to sign the the new oli contracts with King Bin Laden and all those nasty 911 stories will be buried under some maky up well it was somebody else was pretending to be Bin Laden and hell we need the oil and most of all we need to sell him all these new weapons for our masters the ARMS dealers and for the 911 victims well life or should we say death is a bitch and making money comes first by definition thats is the first rule of power making money

And now we come to modern times
Old Bush Baby got replaced by junior bush baby and neo conservitives are not happy as ARMS sales are falling off a cliff
no more god damm commies under the bed to scare them with stories so they buy the latest zap them guns and worse they even talking about peace dividend which dosnt have that nice sound of cold steel shrapnel cutting up bodies sound to it as it explodes making lots of money for ARMS dealers

and worse there is some top FBI guy snooping around who recons he can stop terrorist doing harm to good old USA so he got to get his
come uppense by systematically blockeing him from investigating terrorists even though thats his job and get him booted out of FBI

Just so happens there this nice job going head of security at twin towers just the ticket for a nosy EX FBI guy to retire too who might upset the plans unfolding if he stays with the FBI
and when it all fall down on top of his head the other nosy so and so in the FBI will get the message dont dig or or you will be buried also

and lifes not going too well for Bush Baby junior pre 911 as the press have him figured correctly as the worst laziest and pig ignorant president America ever had and every day things get worse no real wars to make money for ARMS dealers and worse rating are down the tubes re-election is a non starter just like old MAGGIE THATHER pre faulklands war now if only I could copy her style make a easy peasy war to win like Iraq and win the elections and every body will live happily ever after except for the stupid grunts on both sides who are dead or injured and best of all Bush baby will get to copy his dads war president features and make lots of money
accept there is no real enemy out there so maybe hollywood can invent one
or better CIA could make one that shouldnt be too hard they got plenty practice mucking up Nicuagagia and other South American countries killing thousands of stupid peasants farmers and the like because they got in nthe cross fire ah well lifes a bitch if your a poor South American peasant

Now the other niggle in the equasion is old Hussain isnt stupid eneogh to invade those dirty pants country KUWAUT again but what about those WMDS
UN says 600 of the 900 tons made destroyed or accounted for by UN leaving 300 tons unacounted for

Problem is we need a huge smoke screen so people dont find out that the 300 tons has a shelf life of 5 years and 12 years after 1st gulf war is just smelly gooo in barrels that is useless as WMD and hype up the secret production which everybody who knows anthing about Iraq knows could probably not succeed to make a ton of the stuff if it tried as the country is in bits from sanctions and 50% the tanks dont work with no spare parts and most soldiers havent a good pair of shoes or working guns

but it still needs the event from somewhere to trigger the events to take old Hussain out

and then there was 911 and lots of people from lots of countries were dead including muslim countries and ever since the ARMS dealers being making bundles of money and lot of grunts all over the place got dead or injured and we still dont got security because under our beds there lies a new commie plot the Bin Laden babies ready to come bite our butts as we serinly sleep


And then a whole lot of patriotic guys want to build and fly UAV to go chase these bad Bin Lindan babies away with those evil eyes they put on those there crafts
and the really stupid thing is if the back garage outfit succeeeds to make their craft work they will find that that as bottom feeders in the milatary supply chain to the ARMs dealers if their teck stuff isnt robbed off them and sold behind thier backs they will gets cents compared to what the big guys at the top will make from these toys at ARMS sales what they will sell to old KING BIN LADEN OF SAUDIA ARABIA
lifes a bitch

Ralf



PS
The son of Margret Thatcher former Prime Minister of the Great Britian was finally released from South African arrest after he admitted his part in FAILED attempt in trying to overthrow African government so that he could turn his few million into billions as he would control thier oil reserves

Maybe other sons of former gulf war 1 leaders have their trial to go to for having the fingers in the cookie jar...:eek:

[jbourke]

I'm closing this thread.

This forum is for discussing UAVs. Politics go in the "Life, the Universe, and Politics" forum.

I've awarded a few provocation and "flatulence" warnings to some participants.

Jim