Sources for materials (Depron, Gediplac & carbon)

[Aio_1]

The cost of depron locally seems ridiculous to me (€10.50 per sheet for 3mm :o ). Indoor flying seems to be gaining some interest here in Ireland so I'm considering importing a bale of depron between several flyers instead of buying individual sheets here.
Can anyone suggest a source in Europe for buying depron in bulk? (couldn't very well get individual sheets sent by post!!)

I've also come across mention of a slightly lighter material called Gediplac on some of the threads. Is there any downside to this material? Presumably it's a little less rigid? Is the surface similar? Do you use the same adhesives?
Can anyone suggest a source in Europe for buying Gediplac in bulk?

Finally - I can get hold of carbon rod and strip but tube stock is not always easy to get and it seems worthwhile for F3P style planes where weight and rigidity are critical.
Can anyone suggest a source in Europe for buying carbon tube?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks

Aidan

[Erik Johansson]

www.high-torque.de sells full 40 sheet boxes of 3mm original Depron (1250 x 800 mm sheet size). It costs 98 euro including shipping within Germany. Added postage for other countries:
BEL, NED, LUX, DEN, AUT: +12 euro
FRA, GBR, ITA: +18 euro
SWE, ESP: +28 euro
FIN: +25.70 euro

They also sell some carbon but no tubes. You can find carbon tubes at several places, for example www.lipoly.de

As far as gediplac goes, I´ll be interested in hearing about it from someone who knows. :)

/Erik

[Aio_1]

Thanks for the quick answer Erik. That sounds like a BIG saving if I can find a few others who're interested. Shipping to Ireland will probably be similar to UK so that would work out at ~€3 per sheet :) .

Aidan

[wildpalms]

Do a search in the foamies forum. There are quite a few suppliers of Depron in the UK including several people who sell it by the box.

--
Dave

[edit]
I use fibretechgb.co.uk for my glass supplies. They also do a good range of carbon fibre bits.

[Aio_1]

Thanks Dave,

I'll have a look at the UK suppliers. I lived in England for a year ending last September and I found the model shop prices there are almost as bad as Ireland. I'm thinking that if I'm getting it posted there probably won't be a big shipping cost difference between the UK and Germany or France. I'll check out the UK suppliers but I expect it may still be cheaper to get it from Germany or France. I'll let you know. The one problem with German companies is that they often don't take credit cards and you need to get an invoice then transfer funds before the shipment is sent. I bought some servos and other bits from www.Lipoly.de last year and that was what I had to do. It's fine if you're not in a hurry but it's a pity it's not simpler and quicker. However on the plus side the prices and range at that particular company are excellent.

Aidan

[wildpalms]

I was thinking more of the suppliers who sell it by the box for it's original use (well one of them anyway). Worked out quite cheap.

Model shops do tend to be pricey. Guess they buy it the same way and add a bit. At the end of the day it's not meant to be a building material :)

--
Dave

[Aio_1]

I was thinking more of the suppliers who sell it by the box for it's original use (well one of them anyway). Worked out quite cheap.

Model shops do tend to be pricey. Guess they buy it the same way and add a bit. At the end of the day it's not meant to be a building material :)

Very true.
What exactly is it's main use? I doubt it's used for insulation or signage. Is the flat sheet formed into packaging containers etc?
I'm not entirely clear whether depron is a thermoplastic or a thermosetting plastic.

Aidan

[3d_Crazy]

Flat Depron (the brand) is actually used mainly for displays.

[Erik Johansson]

The original depron used in europe (sold in boxes of 40 sheets or 20 sheets, depending on if it´s 3mm or 6mm), is an insulation material used under floors. Most stores here in Sweden only stocks the black (grey) version but some have got the white as well. On the boxes it clearly says what it is for. The full sheet size is 1250x800mm if it´s the original that we use. There are many similar foam materials but many are heavier and not really useful at all for indoor planes imho (10-15% heavier than the real depron with the green "Depron" words printed on it).

But then again depron is used for many things (the brand that is). Like display boards for example like mentioned. But the type that has always been used here in europe to build planes, is the insulation.

/Erik

[3d_Crazy]

Thats what I thought too. When my friend started up DepronTexas we had the description of depron as an insulation sheet made from recycled material. Then we got an e-mail from Depron.

"Thank you for your interest in Depron Display sheets..."

"Further we have some remarks about the text you use at your internetsite.
Depron white is not an insulation sheet nor produced out of recycled material, but it is a homogeneous polystyrene sheet used for mainly promotional activities.
There is a difference between the white and grey/black sheet regarding the cell structure and the application the sheet is originally produced for.

We friendly ask you to change this text because otherwise people would get a wrong impression about the material."

So it looks like to me, white depron is used for "promotional activities", aka "Display Sheets". Grey Depron might be used for insulation?

Tim
e-foamies.com

[Erik Johansson]

Maybe that is true for the sheets he (and you?) is selling? But as for the white and black depron used is Europe, it´s definately both insulation. I have two boxes of white depron right here and the both say that. I hope that maybe Jurgen can chime in with a correct translation, but I know enough german to tell that it´s without a doubt some kind of insulation. :)

I´m attaching two pics, first one is of the box and the secound one is of the green depron print that is printed all along the center line of the sheet on one side. All these original insulation depron sheets has this green print.

/Erik

[3d_Crazy]

I'm just letting you know what the guy said from Depron. My friend imported it directly from Depron (http://www.depron.nl/) in HUGE quantity.

Here is what the Depron website says depron is used for.

Renovation - Insulation

Depron wall insulation panels are cold- and damp resistant and can consequently lead to considerable savings on your energy costs. Depron insulation boards improve your in-house climate: warm and dry, everywhere in your house.

Depron IsoProtect boards are the ideal under flooring panels for parquet floors, laminate and floor heating.

Sign – Hobby - Model building

Depron display- and foamboard panels are especially developed for further use in graphical industries, scale modelling and model building. The purposes of this material almost seem unlimited: let your creativity flow freely!

So you are probably right. They sent us the Depron Display sheets, and you are using the Depron Insulation sheets. What is the difference? I don't know! :)

Tim

[wildpalms]

In France I buy it in the DIY shop for wall insualtion. My parents house has it glued all over the internal walls. Wallpapered over the top.

Here in the UK it is used for underfloor insualtion on high end laminate floors. Was trying to avoid doing the searching myself as this question is asked every few months.

http://www.floorheatingsystems.co.uk/ is one such supplier of Depron by the box. They even know about it's use in modelling :-)

--
Dave

[wildpalms]

Just revisited the site and they so obviously had so many enquires regarding modelling they have a sub site just for us. They used to just sell the grey but now have white as well.

--
Dave

[edit] The usage of the name Depron gets confusing as it is not so much the foam as the brandname of the company making it. A bit like calling all styrofoams DOW.

The white stuff with the green Depron logo isn't half as nice as the white stuff I buy from Flitehook here in the UK but is what is used in France (even seen the logo under the printing on some kits :rolleyes: )

[Erik Johansson]

The printing quickly disappears with a piece of cloth and some rubbing alcohol. :)

/Erik

[fredok]

Hi Erik
about Gediplac, it is the material used for the Aïto Bipe. It is lot lighter than the genuine Derpon and also a little bit smoother. taht makes him bend but not brake as easily as Depron Foam.
Around 1à-20g won on a plane like Aïto using Gediplac instead of Depron.

[Aio_1]

Do you know of any Gediplac sources fredok?

[Trisquire]

Is anyone importing Gediplac into the US?

[Gordon Johnson]

Fredok,
Do you know what thicknesses Gediplac comes in? A quick Google search seems to indicate it comes in 2mm, 3mm, and 6mm, and maybe more. Do you happen to have a weight for a sheet and dimensions so we can directly compare the weight with Depron weight. Yes a supplier in modeler quantities anywhere would sure be appreciated. Thanks.

Gordon

[Gordon Johnson]

Fredok,

about Gediplac, it is the material used for the Aïto Bipe. It is lot lighter than the genuine Derpon and also a little bit smoother. taht makes him bend but not brake as easily as Depron Foam.
Around 1à-20g won on a plane like Aïto using Gediplac instead of Depron
I did a bit of checking. I have been told that 3mm Gediplac weighs the same as 2mm Depron. My weighing of 2mm and 3mm Depron (plus the official specs) are that 2mm Depron weighs 8% less than 3mm Depron. If this is the case, how can 20g be saved on a plane the size of the Aïto? Can you help me out here? I'm trying to figure out if it is worth working very hard to obtain some Gediplac.

Thanks, Gordon

[Gordon Johnson]

Has anyone found a source for Gediplac that we can order from if we live in the US? And, has anyone gotten some definitive weights on Gediplac that we can compare to Depron?

Gordon

[Gordon Johnson]

I have finally gotten an accurate comparision of Gediplac versus Depron weight from someone in Europe I know. 3mm Gediplac weighs 20% less than 3mm Depron. I still don't have a source for Gediplac in the US. And, I have been unable to find any source for 2mm Gediplac even in Europe.

Gordon

[Trisquire]

20% is significant. I hope someone decides to import it.

Tom

[Bryan Davison]

I know that some of the cruiseships have Depron used as insulation in them. They use it because its lightweight, and SUPER thin. Space is a commodity on a ship, and the cruiseship manufacturers want to get every last square inch of available floor space.

Ive just used some of Midwest's Cellfoam 88. Just like depron in my opinion.
Depron tends to fracture like glass in a hit..Cellfoam fractures too, but it doesnt break as cleanly as depron. Kinda leaves a fuzzy edge. It seems to be as light if not lighter than depron. Honestly, by looking at it...you cant tell the difference between it and regular depron.

Oh yeah....and stay FAR FAR away from Zepron...it sucks

Wouldnt it be great if we could convince DOW to make bluecor in 3mm versions instead of the 1/4" stuff. Ill bet they already sell a majority to modelers and just dont know it.

[Aio_1]

This thread has been off the radar for a while but I'm sure things have changed in terms of suppliers since so it may be time for anyone who's found suppliers to let us know!

My main question:

Anyone found a source for Gediplac in Europe that I can purchase from by phone or internet?

My current stock of Depron is dangerously low (maybe enough for 1 plane:eek: ) so I was about to try ordering Depron. However I'd much prefer Gediplac if I can find it.
I could also use an update on Depron suppliers. I sent an e-mail to high-torque.de/ (http://high-torque.de/) a week or so back requesting a quote for shipping costs (Ireland isn't included in the prices listed on the site) but got no reply.

Where in Europe do you buy your Depron online?

[Ryan Archer]

i'm really inertested in getting some gediplac.
it sounds like a huge weight difference, i think it's worth while.
ryan

[Devin McGRath]

I would also be interested in trying some Gediplac. We are running out of things to try to save weight!



Devin McGrath

[matchlessaero]

OK, I'll throw another supplier into the mix. I have been looking for small diameter carbon tubing to use in my builds. My thought is that there would be an obvious weight savings with a tube when compared to a same outer diameter rod. There should also be some stiffness yield from the use of tubes. I started thinking back to my freeflight days for a supplier that might supply such a thing for indoor freeflight.

I purchased a selection of different tubes from the following link. The prices were OK, and the service and delivery here in the States was great. Their online store was also very easy to order from.

http://www.timgoldstein.com/secure/estore/ or www.f1d.biz

I built my IMACYak with the carbon and while I can't say that I saved a lot of (or any) weight, the airplane did turn out very nicely. I still need to do some measurements on my scale to find out if there is any true weight savings here, but unfortunately, my scale does not have enough resolution to get a good measure.....

Anyway, theres another one to throw into the mix.

[Aio_1]

Ok, a little info.

I found Gediplac for sale on a french hardware store site (couldn't figure out how to actually place an order!). The picture shows foam with a label saying "Climapor". So I did a Google search for Climapor+3mm and the first hit was the Manta thread here in the F3P forum where there's a reference to using 3mm Climapor. So it seems that Gediplac may be a Climapor product or at least that Climapor is also usable.

That search also turned up http://www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/links.htm which lists several Depron distributers in mainland Europe, UK and US and the Climapor manufacturer mentioned below.

Next I checked www.saarpor.de (http://www.saarpor.de/) who make Climapor.
If you look under insulation tiles they list a 3mm insulation tile (item no. 4345) which I think is 3mm Gediplac (or a close equivalent). The listed density is approx 35kg/cum. It comes in boxes of 20 tiles 2.5m x 0.8m (extremely bulky for posting!:o ).

I think 3mm Depron density is about 40kg/cum which would make this stuff about 15% lighter by volume.

Aidan

[Aio_1]

OK, I'll throw another supplier into the mix. I have been looking for small diameter carbon tubing to use in my builds. My thought is that there would be an obvious weight savings with a tube when compared to a same outer diameter rod. There should also be some stiffness yield from the use of tubes. I started thinking back to my freeflight days for a supplier that might supply such a thing for indoor freeflight....

I'm only really using carbon for UC and bracing now so it's small diameter (1mm - 2mm). At that size I don't think tube will make much difference as the ID will have to be very small to maintain enough wall thickness. However at 3mm and above the weight savings would become noticable. 3mm tube with a 2mm ID will be 55% the weight of 3mm rod.
Staying at 0.5mm wall thickness the following is the percentage weight of tube compared to rod at each diameter (in theory):
2mm = 75%
3mm is 55%
4mm is 44%
5mm is 36%
6mm is 31%....
What's important to notice is that a 3mm tube weighs only a fraction more than a 2mm rod but it will be far stiffer.

Aidan

[racerxky]

Gediplac. Does it exist? What does it look like? I'm Dr. Aio_1 and I'll be your guide to...

For the landing gear I don't want anything stiffer than 1.5 or maybe 2mm carbon rod. Its nice when it flexes on impact rather than staying stiff and transferring the impact energy into the airframe. I have seen some very annoying things happen to 'durable' foamies with 3mm+ carbon landing gear. 3mm is like a tree stump; its not gonna bend.

Others are using 1mm rod for bracing wings. Its hard to imagine a tube any lighter than that.

[Ryan Archer]

i found the catalog, but i don't know how to order either? weird, it looks like you have to buy it in bulk.
ryan

[AlixB]

I just wanted to let you know that you can get from me those items at superprices. ($1.25 for .050,.060 and $ 1.50 for 3mm hollow tubes)

check the link

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=608218#post6558499

I hope this helps

[sukoi]

in Europe you can fin depron and diverse material from
www.maquelar.com

[Aio_1]

in Europe you can fin depron and diverse material from
www.maquelar.com (http://www.maquelar.com)
Thanks for the link although I can't find depron there. Is it listed?

Aidan

[sukoi]

no, I can't find it in the list of materials, but he is a friend and I know that he have it

[sukoi]

I have found a bulk distributor in UK by interet

http://www.depronfoam.com/prices.htm

[epilot]

What do you consider "bulk" amounts? I import DPP carbon products and will consider offering a discount on purchases of 20meters and upwards.

Michael

[Aio_1]

I noticed that www.high-torque.de (http://www.high-torque.de/) are now selling stuff called Selitron as well as Depron so I did a search for it and found http://www.modulor.de/shop/oxid.php...d/TAG/anid/ABBD

I doubt High-torque sell both Depron and Selitron if they're exactly the same. I've sent them a mail asking what's the difference between them.

Can anyone else tell me anything about Selitron?

Aidan

[Aio_1]

What do you consider "bulk" amounts? I import DPP carbon products and will consider offering a discount on purchases of 20meters and upwards.

Michael

Michael,

I was looking at your site last night and I had my shopping cart full of carbon rod, kevlar thread and a couple of fullriver 250mAh cells before I remembered you don't take credit cards! I have to get my Paypal account up and running. Apparently someone tried to fraudulently access my account in France so it's been automatically disabled :mad:.
Once I've got that sorted I'll be looking for about 20m of carbon rod in a selection of 1mm, 1.2mm and 1.5mm diameters. What sort of discount did you have in mind?:D

Regards,

Aidan

[Island Models]

Rc Model Shop Ireland
Get Depron in Ireland at:
http://www.islandmodels.ie

[epilot]

My carbon supplier is going to be making larger diameter tubes now and I will carry them at Indoor Flyer. I'm also looking at revising my prices in the hope it will increase sales. It's simple scale of economy: The more I buy from the manufacturer the cheaper it gets and I pass the savings onto my customers.

Michael

[Aio_1]

My carbon supplier is going to be making larger diameter tubes now and I will carry them at Indoor Flyer. I'm also looking at revising my prices in the hope it will increase sales. It's simple scale of economy: The more I buy from the manufacturer the cheaper it gets and I pass the savings onto my customers.

Michael
Will they be thin wall tubes?
If so I may have some uses for it.

Aidan

[MagnusEl]

Hello.

I found a source in Finland for 1mm 1,5mm and 2mm polystyrene sheets.
http://www.eshop109.kotisivut.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=27_42
The S-100 type is very nice, only 55 g/m2.
Have not build anything yet, only started a micro Cub build.

Magnus

[celestino25]

I have lots of gediplac please contact me celestinoclemente@gmail.com

[Azarr]

I have lots of gediplac please contact me celestinoclemente@gmail.com

Where are you located?

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

[KatManDEW]

Anyone find a source for Gediplac?

[matchlessaero]

Anyone find a source for Gediplac?

Still workin on it Kat. Have a solid lead, but nothing yet in hand.

[Ruud_NL]

KatManDEW, if you don't mind shippingcost I can sent it to you from Europe. PB me if you want more info.

regards
ruud

[Todd Long]

KatManDEW, if you don't mind shippingcost I can sent it to you from Europe. PB me if you want more info.

regards
ruud


Ruud,

The Gediplac you sent us is GREAT....!!

THANKS, Todd
www.toddsmodels.com

[PabloM]

How much did it cost with shipping and how much material did you buy?

[KatManDEW]

Ruud,

The Gediplac you sent us is GREAT....!!

THANKS, Todd
www.toddsmodels.com

Wanna sell a few sheets?

[Todd Long]

Wanna sell a few sheets?

Sorry, we bought a case of it from Ruud for our own use. The three of us will use it up pretty quickly. It was not cheap. I don't want to give a price because the Euro is always changing. Also we do sell Depron here in the shop but not on the website because shipping is a gamble on large light items.

Todd
www.toddsmodels.com

[KatManDEW]

Thanks anyway Todd.

I weighed the foam only, from a gediplac plane, and a depron clone. The difference in foam weight was 5.69 grams. That is significant, especially in small indoor venues, but the gediplac is also much less rigid than depron.

Here's a stiffness comparison;

[PabloM]

Ive just used some of Midwest's Cellfoam 88. Just like depron in my opinion.
Depron tends to fracture like glass in a hit..Cellfoam fractures too, but it doesnt break as cleanly as depron. Kinda leaves a fuzzy edge. It seems to be as light if not lighter than depron. Honestly, by looking at it...you cant tell the difference between it and regular depron.


I just bought some depron that arrived yesterday. I notice that depron is more flexible (not near as drastic as gediplac vs. depron though) and after weighing some sheets and doing a few quick calculations my current plane would be 10g lighter just from using depron vs. cf88.

I also notice that the cf88 I have bought has some inconsistencies... some sheets are thicker and heavier than others. Recently, I cut a plane and botched the paint job so I cut another from a different package of cf88 and the foam was 9g heavier unpainted than the painted foam of the other plane! comparing the 2 side by side it was visibly thicker - I don't have anything to measure it with but just looking I'd guess around 0.2mm thicker and was stiffer/more dense.

I'll see how depron stands up to my abuse, and maybe cf88 is a better outdoor/training foam and depron is better for indoors...

Edit: and the comparison made to my current plane vs. depron was built with "lighter" cf88. Depron might be 20g lighter had I used the "heavy" cf88 that I re-cut. That heavier cf88 plane will be my back-up plane's back-up, I guess...

[KeesBlokland]

I noticed that www.high-torque.de (http://www.high-torque.de/) are now selling stuff called Selitron as well as Depron so I did a search for it and found http://www.modulor.de/shop/oxid.php...d/TAG/anid/ABBD

I doubt High-torque sell both Depron and Selitron if they're exactly the same. I've sent them a mail asking what's the difference between them.

Can anyone else tell me anything about Selitron?

Aidan

Hi Aidan,

In my search for Gediplac, I thought I'd try Selitron too, just to see how that behaves.

I cut a wing just to get an idea of the weight. 4.54gr for Depron, 5.34 for Selitron. (as you probably know there appears to be large variations in weight between sheets, even from the same batch.)
So, first impression is that Selitron is slightly heavier.

Cut a 10*10 cm piece: 1.47gr for Selitron, 1.41gr Depron.

Selitron appears to be much more flexible though. (in one axis)
It certainly does not look like the stuff that my Clik! is made from, so the search continues. (for a decent large quantity supplier)

However, because of it's slightly different properties, it might be very useful for those of us that need a slightly stronger nose-section :)

kees

[Ruud_NL]

Will have some new plates gediplac coming beginning of march. Shipping accros the globe is possible.
If you are intrested please sent me a PM for more info.

Regards
ruud

[Ruud_NL]

Hello all!

Thanks to the high demand I can buy directly at the factory now!
This makes lower pricing for everybody.

Shipping to USA is quite high, but if you buy some plates with friends you can share and it's to do.

For more information sent me a message.

Best regards
Ruud