Homebuilt X-Twin/AeroAce Powered Micro Jets

[hklam]

Thought of starting a new thread for the x-twin/aeroace enthusiasts to show-off their homebuilt jets, in line with the introduction of the new aeroace micro jet by Airhogs.

Here's my finally completed and fitted F-15 Eagle (12" wingspan). Test flown it in my living hall last night and it seems to fly very slowly but without much lift as it is a bit overweight at 22.0g. From the pictures you could see that I have removed chunks and chunks of 3mm foams from the airframe that was built from my previous post here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4924171&postcount=229

and covered the surface with much lighter and flexible 0.5mm insulation foam to achieve a lighter airframe. The effect of it seemed to have boost the appearance of my F-15, as compared to the original when it was built.

Will try to trim some excess foams and bits to make it lighter and able to lift easily, and hopefully maiden her successfully. Its quite a challenge to build and trim a flyable jet using the x-twin power unit. Hopefully more homebuilt x-twin/aeroace jets appears in this thread.

hklam

[Pete P]

Nice job! Consier scaling the whole thing down a bit for the version 3.0, though :-P I'd say 9-10 inches oughtta do it, cause one single 6mm motor will underpower a 8" span one quite nicely :-)

[hklam]

Thanks Pete. I think you may be spot on there on the flyable dimension for jets powered by the limited power of the x-twin motors. But for 9 - 10 inches wingspan, it may be a fast and furious flyer to contend with, control issues especially for differential thrust.

Hmm, I thought of building a profile F-15 from balsa sticks and covered with similar insulation foam as it is non-tearable and flexible yet sturdy and waterproof, but at similar dimensions as my current one. It will be lighter I think, and the x-twin power units should be able to handle it pretty well, and without uncontrollable issue too. Maybe......if that is workable, then I can conjure-up more profile x-twin jets in the likes of F16, F18 Hornet, and also the F22 Raptor.

Guys, now its your turn to do up some for us to view and enjoy!


hklam

[bEbOp ¿?]

Here is my original post http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4934949&postcount=267 Its an F-22 Raptor Profile . All the info for the 11 inch wingspan model that Did fly is on that page. I still Felt @ 18G AUW it was alittle heavy. Never flew fast, needed 1/2 throttle all the time, When going to Full throttle it didn't climb or go any faster. Battery positioned Vertical helped to keep JeT flat.



Here is the First pic of my 2nd ver. It NEVER FLEW. Big bummer but I learned a few things.

The Wing Span is a TINY 8 1/2 inches. Total Length 9 1/2 inches Airframe was a mere 4 Grams. I don't have the AUW on hand. It never flew here is why; First the battery was mounted Horizontal bottom of Wing leading edge. The problems it caused were CG was to High, the model had Almost NO Dihrederal so once it got going it would just Barrel roll always to left. Even though left/right CG seemed good while tunning it on a string.
Second I didn't want to cut the Small flat airfoil wing, so I put the pushers on the Trailing edge. No matter what Angle Of Attack I adjusted the motors It whould not fly level. It did want To Climb till almost 90º ,Stalled and crashed somtimes. That should tell you move the battery forward, But the battery couldn't move anymore. So with more fine tunning, and a bigger Vertical fusalage so I can give the model Lower CG and move battery forward. In therory it will fly ! ohhh yes , it will fly.__™

Im waiting for my stash of 1ohm resistors so I could try the One motor and actuator mod on the tiny 8 1/2 model.. Airplanes will be easy with the AA guts then. Scale down the popular pusher jets and Go____

After looking at the REAL Airhogs SpinMaster Jet I used the 45mm props as reference for size.
Real AA jet: Wingspan 6 = 10.62 inches
Length 5 = 8.85 inches
Elevator 4 = 7.08 inches
Wing chord 2 = 3.53 inches

[NitroCharged]

OK, I've jumped onboard. I got this much built last night, one elevator not glued on and the front section is just sitting there at the moment. I'll finish up tonight. 2mm depron material used.

http://www.nitrocharged.com/images/fmsukhoi_build.jpg

[micro_builder]

nice looking jets, guys.

i built an SR-71 BlackBird a few months ago for the xtwins electronics. but, due to the incredibly long nose, i was never able to find the proper CG. i crashed it too many times before i got it flying right, and of course, i didnt take a picture before the carnage took place. not that i dont have enough things going on already (i think Nitro has got me beat though!), but i may have to revisit the jets, but i'll have to figure out how to make an F-16 look like a twin. my dad worked for General Dynamics, so i've got a little fondness for the Falcon, what can i say?

nick

[watersharer]

anyone think it might be possible to trim the props down and actually duct the fans?

An Eagle would be pretty sweet, or even a Falcon. Maybe done like the Corsair in the other thread, molded depron? I have a diecast Falcon I could try to mold from, but I havent tried the technique yet. Thinking about it a bit more, I dont think you could get enough differential through ducts to have effective steering. Probably needs at least rudder to try.

Hurry up with the 3 channel AA's!

[hklam]

Nice Raptor there Bebop! and Nitrocharged, your Sukhoi is excellent.

If only I could get 2mm depron over here in Malaysia, the building possibilities will be unlimited. By the way Nitro, will your jet be powered by the x-twin engines? It looks as though you might be using more channels as compared to the basic 2-channel x-twin.

It will be a great challenge making one that will fly exceptionally well with the x-twins. A lot of experiments and trimming required. As we speak, I am planning to go for another version of the F-15 Eagle as the one that I posted a couple of days back could only fly like 2.5 feet above ground level and only for about 20-30 seconds. I need to make one that is very much lighter.

Guys, the x-twin equipments currently weighs in at around 9.5-10.5g depending what has been removed and what remains. The stock x-twin biplane has an AUW of 19.5g and already the lifts are quite restricted. So i imagined that a good flyer with the x-twin equipments should weighs around the 15-18g region. Anything below that will be "lost with the wind" and anything above shall "fall to the ground".

Hence, the ideal bare weight of airframe should be around 5 - 8g. So, guys aim for that when you build your x-twin jets. Hope to see more good results later.

hklam

[NitroCharged]

I am going stock aeroace rxer gear. I have no idea if it will work... lol :D

[NitroCharged]

..on the subject of 2mm depron, I have stacks of it as I doubled up on a slow order a while ago. PM me postal details and I'll send a bunch through :)

[hklam]

Just completed a profile F-16 Falcon from balsa and insulation foam. The single fuselage of the F-16 is lighter than the double fuse and double verticle stab of the F-15. AUW at 19g now.

Will post pictures later and hope to maiden it sometime soon.

Meanwhile, keep the posts and creations coming!
hklam

[NitroCharged]

I am running a little behind this weekend as business got in the way.
I completed the sukhoi and taped the aeroace gear onto the model to see if all was well with positioning. It was :)
Here's a few snaps of where on the model the gear will be mounted:

http://www.nitrocharged.com/images/aa_sukhoi1.jpg

http://www.nitrocharged.com/images/aa_sukhoi2.jpg


And here's a shot of the finished model:

http://www.nitrocharged.com/images/aa_sukhoi3.jpg

To avoid it rolling as others experienced with a flat wing, I put a couple of clear plastic dihedral tabs on the wing tips so it wouldn't spoil the outline. These were enough to stabilize the model and it glides very well!
Now to install the gear. :cool:

[hklam]

Dave,

Looking good there! What's the wingspan for your sukhoi? It may not roll if you have double fuselage in it. Instead, it may be very stable without the wingtips. Unless, the wing span is considerably small.

In any case, the wing tips idea is superb. What sort of material do you use for that?

What's the AUW now?

hklam

[hklam]

Here's pictures of my profile F-16 Falcon from balsa, insulation foam and 3mm depron. Needed some slight upward trimming of the horizontal stabs for better lifts.

It flies and I manage to fly it outdoors in circular motion as its turning circle is too big! Maybe due to the bigger than usual verticle stabilizer. However, the CG is spot on and flight is stable and self correcting after each turn. :D


hklam

[NitroCharged]

wingspan is 12". Weight is 23 grams. It sounds heavy but it glides well - I tried it several times this morning on the front lawn to make sure balance was good and glide distance was decent and it seems a real floater. I have coated the nose area to about 1.5cm back in a thin layer of epoxy to toughen it up in case of nose in's. ;)

If it goes well this way, I can always cut the plastic off and see if it still flies well. If it doesn't, I can simply glue them back on. I used some plastic from a screw container from the hardware store. A little thick but very stiff. A shirt box or anything else would do fine - anything thin and flat.
The motors are mounted wider than on the aeroace so it should turn although I am a little concerned about the huge rudders - they might present a problem for turning.... only one way to find out :D

Motors have been mounted and epoxy is curing:

http://www.nitrocharged.com/images/motors_mounted.jpg

[NitroCharged]

Gear has been installed and I am just waiting for the morning and hoping it will be calm enough to maiden.

AUW came in at 18 grams :)

[hklam]

At 18g auw should be a hoot to fly! Good luck on your maiden, and perhaps some light paint work that does not add too much weight will make your sukhoi one heck of a jet in the air! ;)


hklam

[Pete P]

Aim the motors out, guys... Less speed, greater turning ability!

[NitroCharged]

It flies great! :D

After a few nose in's at low throttle I realised I had mounted the motors on the wrong sides - so when I held it right to straighten the left turn out - it was turning hard left and pummeling into the ground. A few bits of masking tape to hold the buckled nose area back together and I tried again. The motors seemed to push the nose down even though I mounted them with up thrust. I moved the battery back as far as the leads would allow but it wasn't enough so I taped a very small nut to the tail and that sorted that problem out. I trimmed the motors to full right but it still crept to the left so I taped a tiny washer to the right wingtip. (don't you love my field trim methods? ;)) Recharged the battery and launched it again. It flew great! Nice tight figure eights and circles and nice slow straight flight. I had to have it at 3/4 throttle to maintain level flight and full throttle to climb but hey, it flies, right? :cool:

Now for a few repairs, some trim tabs and a bit of paint!

[Alfredo Rubio]

Clever design!!!! ingenuity.

Cheers.

Alf

[selfo]

after seeing Nitros sukhoi I had to make one as I had a nice new AA sitting around.

wingspan: 10.5 in
AUW: 17.3 grams
stock AA gear decased and shrink-wrapped
small elev & rudders

glides great and climbs out at 1/2 throttle on up!

cant wait for indoor night thursday....hope to get some video!

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0120.jpg

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0122.jpg

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0125.jpg

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0130.jpg

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0131.jpg

most fun ive had in 2 hours building lately!

[selfo]

ok im really finished for now!

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0135.jpg

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0136.jpg

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0138.jpg

:D

[hklam]

Nice! Very nice indeed, Selfo!

Hope to see a video of it flying, maybe?

How's the controllability? Is it fast? If it flies very nicely, I might have to do scale mine down to your size so that it climbs better.

More guys, more! The AA or x-twin gears are suitable for profile jets, so why wait! Gut your AA and start building and flying micro jets.

hklam

[NitroCharged]

Nice pusher indeed selfo! :)

I might have to nuetralize my motors thrust lines if Selfo has no issues at half throttle as his look neutral. Looks like I don't need those stabilisers either then. Less weight - goodie!

Let you know how it goes. Might even get some video of mine too. :cool:

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Folks...

I thought it was time to share my stumbling attempt of an AA-Jet.

Mine disobeys all of the rules for size and weight (for now), but it has "flown" indoors in a standard gym, but not under as much control as I had hoped.

It did maintain altitude, but it is too nose heavy to keep the nose up in the turns, and heads for the floor pronto.

It has ONLY the electronice and battery and motors and wires from one AA. It also has NO other electronics or electrical servos or actuators.

BUT, it DOES have a mechanical servo to control the elevons, yes, it has operating, and controlable elevons, and a close look at the bottom view will disclose all of my secrets.

The plane is on my bench right now, and is undergoing some weight loss, and a lossening up of the elevon controls. As first flown, I had made the "servo" stiff, to give some auto centering (and that did work), but it was TOO stiff, and robbed most of the movement from the elevons.

I am going from carbon rods to thread, for a "pull-pull" system, and will make no provision for centering, and just "live with" the need to keep "flying it" constantly, for the time being, until I get it's limits sortrd out.

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

This is my first non-swing wing F-14 (and THAT hurts), it wieghs 26
grams (OUCH), and has a 19" wingspan.

Well, I guess I don't how it "insert a picture", so i'll just post this for a teaser, and hope someone chimes in to tell me how..

Until then... Bob (one of many)

[hklam]

Well, being the thread starter, I think that gives me some rights to request for some pics of your creation, Bob. :rolleyes:

Anyways, to post pics, you can use the "manage attachment" function from the "New Reply" thread. Make sure you click on "New Reply" and not "Quick Reply". After you click on "New Reply", you scroll down the page and you will find the function. Click on that and you can upload 5 pics at one go! As simple as that, try it.


hklam

[selfo]

I think its just the pic you are looking at..... if you look at the second from the end you can see the displacement id say im around the three to four degree area.

Hope I caught you before any major adjustments took place hehe.

I dont know about all of you but I cant get anything else done (like my ikarus yak for thurs night indoor that isnt even opened) because Im sitting here im a daze staring at this 25 dollar 10.5 sukoi.....these are way too much fun and great projects for the kids.

we could build these in 30 mins at a meeting night and get down all the basics of foam building and terminilogy, control surfaces and the like.....wham bam.
kids would just love it.


anyhow off to work.....

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Folks, and thanks hklam...

The method to swing the wings, is an aerodynamic function of the lift vector, and only works (for me) with a wide speed range, as in my past slope TomCats.

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

Ps. See post #25 above for more details...

[StephanB]

Bob, very nice solution.
Is there enough steering-power to stop turning and come back to a straight flight?
Really would love to see a video.
Stephan

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Stephan...

As mentioned in post #25 above, there was not enough control authority to stop the turn before it hit the floor, but it was trying.

The biggest problem, is that it was way too nose heavy, and the controls were too stiff. Both problems are being addressed as I write this.

I hope to retest it tonight, outside, or in the morning, whenever the winds die down (here in the greater LA area).

Thanks for the interest and encouragment.

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

[StephanB]

Sorry Bob, didn't read post 25 complete, i instantly scrolled down after having read this:

"BUT, it DOES have a mechanical servo to control the elevons, yes, it has operating, and controlable elevons, and a close look at the bottom view will disclose all of my secrets."

Should have read complete. :o
Please report yr. progress. That idea is brilliant.
Stephan :)

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Stephan...

Again, thanks for the kind words, and encouragement !

I have now completed (5 minutes ago) the control mod, useing thread instead of the carbon pushrods, and get almost 6 times the control movement.

I have also moved the cg back a whole bunch, and am waiting for the afternoon winds to die down here in LA.

I'll see if I can figure out how to upload a video of the elevons being moved by the differential thrust.

I can't wait for this evening...

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Folks...

This is my first attempt at uploading a video... The file I uploaded was in MPEG4, I hope that that is compatable with this system, and the potential downloaders.

I have a file conversion program, and should be able to translate it into something that will work (if this does not). What is the best and most convieniant file format for video on these threads...???

I'll try to post it now, and if it comes across, I'll post some conversation to go with it.

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=31338&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Does THIS work... ??

It is in the Gallery as AA-Kat, if the above does not work.

[NitroCharged]

place the movie online - like in your ISP web space, then put a link to it here

eg: http://mywebspace.myisp.com/themovie.mpg

and it will be able to get downloaded by us.

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Folks...

I was wondering why the traffic died on this thread, then I noticed that I had added my video as an "edit", and not as a new reply, and that does not send out a notice of activity on this thread... dah... Sorry about that.

The video is posted on message #33 above, and is of a demonstration of the differential thrust motors powering/controlling the elevons.

It is now done with thread (a "pull-pull" system), and is VERY free in it's movements, and the response time from stick movement to elevon movement is pretty good (as visable in the video).

A "front" is coming through the LA area, and the wind was too high to try a flight this morning, but if it dies down, I'll give it a toss, and report back the results, whether good or bad...

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

[selfo]

iM STILL HERE......

indoor night is tomorrow and I hope to get some vids.......

wooohoooo

[StephanB]

Bob, thanks for the video. Impressive. Please show us your new pull-pull arrangement.
Thanks
Stephan.

[NitroCharged]

Selfo,
It was too late and I had already done it... and yes it failed... only could manage a little above level flight at WOT. So back to "up thrust", which we can now state is a must. ;)

I have an indoors night here too - so if a certain flying buddy is there I will see if he can grab some flight footage of it.

[Bobber Bob]

Hi Folks...

Here are a few more shots of some of the details of that not so little TomKat (not swing wing, yet).

Bob Reynolds
ComeUpHere

[selfo]

holy schmolly it FLIES!!!!

heres the proof (sorry it from a digi camera)

anyhow, best of fun!!!!
puttin some kits together for the guys and gonna have a hayday!!!

video 1 (http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0159.MPG)

video 2 (http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0152.MPG)

[NitroCharged]

Well done selfo :)
A suggestion would be to get the angle of attack up higher and it will climb better during straight runs and won't lose so much height each turn :)

[selfo]

das the end of the battery it climbs out at 1/2 thr. on up at about
15-20 degrees with no wash out/ramping just goes up or goes level or goes down. I dare say it flies perfect. Ill get more vids next time as Im going smaller and making a f15 muhahhahha

[NitroCharged]

Great! ignore my post then :D

An F15 you say, hmm??!! Go for it - the more examples of pusher jets, the better! :)

[hklam]

Nice video! Selfo do you have a profile plan of your sukhoi? You can post it in the thread for others to base their built from.

Guys, keep the builts coming!

hklam

[selfo]

thanks guys !

I love the enthusiasm nitro!!

Ill keep everyone posted as to the progress on the f15,,,,,might be a few as we are going to laser some su27 kits and then prolly whack out the f15.......unless i can get off my rear and do both at the same time...... :o

got 2 210 mah cells last night and super micro connectors....so should bump up the fun factor that much more!

ok here ya go Nitro....hehe
just so you know itll get up there"" no problem with this um.... reaaaallllyy high ceiling.....gotta love it.

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/HPIM0154.JPG
did you find it just to the left of the light!

[selfo]

and last but not least an in flight hi-res baby!!!

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/100666643_dffe0b1208_b.jpg

enjoy!!

[airmcn_3]

and last but not least an in flight hi-res baby!!!

http://www.selfo.com/holdingzone/100666643_dffe0b1208_b.jpg

enjoy!!


Could you please post size and maybe templates??? Thanks Chris

[selfo]

ohhh now.... its all in this thread!

10.5 in ws
auw now is 18g

*rumor is that kits are coming soon
and plans even sooner for the go-getters

[NitroCharged]

Now that's some altitude! LOL

[AirNerd]

40 foot ceilings...

[AirNerd]

By the way I flew it for the vid and yes it flys puuurrrrfect!!!

I am gonna do the F 15 with mine and hope for the same.

[j_z_123]

Very cool! Plans or kits would be great:)

Jon

[AirNerd]

I will try and talk him into both tomorow.

[Freakazoid]

That looks flatout awesome! I didnt know you could do that with a cheap wallmart plane. :)

Just wondering though, in the videos, it looks like its having trouble gaining altitude. Is this on purpose, or is it really strugling? (The picture with it up next to the lamp was a hard throw maybe?)

[zen4013]

selfo....nice job! I do notice that all of the AA planes (including the originals) seem to "porpose" to some degree. Its apparent in your video, as the plane never flies truely "level". Its obviously light enough, so what do you'all think would be required to fix this condition?

[Freakazoid]

It needs a certain angle of attack to get lift. At these speeds its more noticable.

Maybe making some canard jet can decrease the angle by increasing the front lift by those little canard wings. Silverlith has the right idea, look at those new line of mini planes theire getting ready. Some of em have the canard idea. I guess this is the reason why.

[Pjotrrr]

Could not resist... ;)

Here is my Sukhoi-37, 3mm Depron, 16 gram AUW, 25 cm span (almost 10")
Will shoot some video tomorrow at the indoor event if it flies well.
I used the attached 3-view "posterprinted" to 4 sheets A4 as a plan....

Peter

[Pjotrrr]

Colourcoded the switch: red=on, blue=off...
Doubles as colourcode for chargejack, hope I don't put it in the wrong way around now ;)

[selfo]

indeed the porposing" was induced by trying to slow down and get low enough for the video.....it will fly perfectly level at about 1/3 - 1/2 throttle depending on charge level. on full power and almost no power it will see-saw a bit,,,so getting to or coming from altitude it will see-saw but level sustained flight i poss. for 8+ minutes or so!!

weee haw I have the vectors for su27 and f15 in the computer just need to tweak em and print some tests!

word on the street is that plans go out monday and prototypes will be cut early this coming week.

cool lookin jet mang did you fly it yet?

[j_z_123]

Haha, I couldn't resist either.

16g AUW.
10" Wingspan
3mm Depron, with carbon spar in the wing.

Video soon.

Jon

[AirNerd]

Selfo!!! I got it



Lets do an F-5!!!!!

[selfo]

HERE we go guys....

I want pics, videos and comments! have fun and let me know if you find any problems.

these are beta 1 so build carefully....enjoy!

[AirNerd]

See guys I new he would do it.

Now we got some buildin to do!!

[colbyweb]

I had the privilege of seeing SeLfo's plane fly Thursday night. It's really awesome, flies great!
-Rick

[AirNerd]

Allright here are some proto photos fromthe above plans.

The F-15 went together flawlessly (well minor changes to come)

Selfo is working on the SU-27 right now to get some of the build glitches out.

I will "alpha" test the F-15 in a few.

[NitroCharged]

Peter,
great 37 - look forward to hearing the flight report.
I tweaked mine some more this morning. I noticed selfo had a lot of up thrust on his elevator trim tabs - so I swapped my small wieght on the tail for some trim tabs and it went well -a little squirelly in the wind that was blowing but very nice still. I cut down my stabiliser fins to half height and it was just as stable, so I cut them completely off and it seemed to teeter-totter, but the wind was picking up by now so not sure who was to blame. I will test this coming weekend indoors to see the real results :)

I guess a mig15 is next in the build queue ;)

[AirNerd]

Well flight test were BAD...I had the motors reversed for a long time before we figured it out, the after reversing it flew fine for the first few then after smashing into the wall too manny times one motor started not werkin so we had to call it quits for now and make a trip to radio shak.

All is not lost tho...in my opinion the F-15 is the way to go for now in the looks depo and I think it flies just as great!

Mig huh??? sound great Nitro!

[Pjotrrr]

That's a pity, just remember that the motor with the RED wire goes to the left just like the red lights to the left on ships and planes ;)
Can't wait to fly mine, will try some reflex in the tail when needed and Pete's suggestion to turn the props a bit outward for tighter turns makes sense too!
If it flies well next will be the Su-47 Berkut, I have a bigger depron model of that one with Astro 010 that flies great ;)

[AirNerd]

OK, some revised plans...

Lets us know of any probs you find on these "beta" two plans.

Thankz

[micro_builder]

after seeing the nice looking jets being done here, i couldnt help myself. i decided to go for the F-117 (original plans done by Billy Stiltner), which probably isnt the best choice, but hey, it looks cool :rolleyes:

you'd never know it looking at the picture, but there was more sanding done on this plane than probably any others of mine. the main wing is 1/16th balsa, but it was really heavy, came in over 7 grams! i managed to sand it down to around 5 and so far the bare weight is 6.2 grams. i'm estimating an AUW of around 15 grams. main wing is 8.5 inches wide, 11.5" long.

i'm already having a hard time getting the CG right even just for test glides. but, after adjusting the tips of the main wing, its going a little better. i've never had much luck with delta or flying wing designs, so any tips that anyone might have would be appreciated.

lately i'm really wishing i had some depron, as the brown just doesnt look right. if all goes well, i may do some graphics for it (the hand drawn lines are just plain pittiful!).

nick

[selfo]

***fixed tabs on the right side of the elev!!!
should be about right now!!

*NERD could you plz delete the last beta 2's tyty

[AirNerd]

done

looks good!

[WhiteHot]

I cant wait to build one of these. Now I have to get my hands on some Depron. Where is the quickest place to get it?

[AirNerd]

dpron usa.com

[NitroCharged]

Selfo, have you tried the larger battery yet? I am mounting a high C 160mah battery in to see if it gives more power or just longer flight times :)

[NitroCharged]

Mounted the batt but it doesnt 'sound' like the motors have increased rpm's.....

[AirNerd]

seems to me it would be hard to tell just by listening.

[NitroCharged]

exactly.
I can't tell the difference when the battery has just been charged (stock battery) but I can see a big increase in power as it climbs so much faster. It would also help if I fully charge this batt as it brand new never been used yet - so I am now doing that. :)

[NitroCharged]

charged the 160mah up and I can definitely hear way more revs. :)

[AirNerd]

Sweet!

Selfo has some 210mah to strap in these tiny jets.

[selfo]

these should be the final revisions!

lemme know if you find any weirdness

[AirNerd]

Looks good, I see you finally put a canopy on the F-15.

[WhiteHot]

I am a complete newbie when it comes to building foamies. I was planning on using gorilla glue or 5 min epoxy to put these things together. I assume that is going to work from some of the stuff I have read in the foamie forum. As for the 2mm carbon that goes in these things, does it just get sandwiched between the main wing and elevator and aileron sections? Like I would glue it to the edge of the main wing, and then glue the edges of the rest of the pieces to the other side of the carbon? Also, are you using 2mm round carbon rod?

Thanks guys. Sorry for the newbie questions. Cant wait to get my Depron.

[AirNerd]

Hey WhiteHot, just use foam safe CA (odorless) as epoxy is TOO heavy and Gorilla glue TOO messy.

The carbon is just flat carbon, and yes it is samwitched between the main wing and elevators.

Always good to see the "newbees".

Welcome to Micro jets 101

Christopher

[NitroCharged]

If I made this sukhoi again I would not weigh it down with the 2mm CF rod I have across the wing. It is unecessary and heavy. I might even cut it out just to see what sort of performance improvement I'd get :)

[stormbird]

selfo....nice job! I do notice that all of the AA planes (including the originals) seem to "porpose" to some degree. Its apparent in your video, as the plane never flies truely "level". Its obviously light enough, so what do you'all think would be required to fix this condition?

Hi all

Nice jets , but I think there is a problem with the geometry that you are using ?

For any plane to fly with the fuselage straight and level the wing must be angled up between 3 and 5 degrees.
To achive this either
1) cut the wing slot at that angle to the planes datum line , this makes the plane fly level with the tail level

2)mount the horizontal tail plane at -3 to -5 degrees , this makes the plane fly slightly nose up tail level

3) a bit of both + wing and - tail to equal 3-5 degrees

If you have no difference in incedance between wing and tail the plane will fly nose up near the stall and will not recover easily if put into a dive.


[QUOTE] I tweaked mine some more this morning. I noticed selfo had a lot of up thrust on his elevator trim tabs - so I swapped my small wieght on the tail for some trim tabs and it went well [QUOTE]

See above for reason this is needed and good luck they look great , mine will follow shortly !

Paul

ps I may try to convert this as it was a flop as free flight electric

[selfo]

were should be more specific as we are using dave browns "carbon fibre strip" product number cfsp-5230 and not just plain ole" 2mm flat bar.

hope this clears up any confusion.......

Nitro, none the less we are right prolly fine either way!

its no fun w/o carbon right? hehe

[selfo]

oh and sorry stormbird i didnt scroll down far nuff" heheh

datum .....schmattum, elevator......whats that....just kidding.

I agree with you 100% but flat plate flies funny and the vortices', myth, magic, pixie dust and back holes that surround these little planes is undeniable.....another thing is the fact that this little airframe (su27) flies magnificently.

I guess this is a good time to tell everyone hacking off and up their elevators that I was NOT running with anything more than a trace of elev. ( not at all what it looks like in the big pic....the space we fly casts many interesting shadows or just a weird stroke of picture taking elevator magic)

and again: with 1/3 to 1/2 thr. su-27 will fly straight and level with no visable porpusing
in a moderatly nose up attitude *looks great

[NitroCharged]

I am still making little adjustments to things on mine and am having fun doing so. I dont think I will go much further than trimming as I have yet more models to complete and build. Last flight I think I will do with this is indoor flying this weekend to test in a no wind environment.

[Ben-Solo]

hi in ref to the plans?

when i print them it does not scale properly?

the inch by inch scale in the bottom right corner measures to half a inch and 2 16/th

hoe do i print for true scale?

[selfo]

I use photo shop or illustrator ......... just be sure the look at all you print options.

you prolly have checked : scale to fit media :

lemme know?

[Ben-Solo]

ur right!

stupid me my search was not workin i could not find tiled print

i unclick fit to page how daft am i!

well plans are printed im cuttin depron now

i had 2 mono type aero aces delivered today

i heard they fly poo standard so i aint even gunner try flying them just going to hack them now! lol

when i opened the box befor i even looked at the plane i did the spring mod stright away! any best tips on the c g on the f 15?

thanks

[selfo]

the blue box on the plans that says "battery" seems like a good starting point...

heehee jkjk ...couldnt help myself!

on a more serious note I would def start with some glide tests and see how your model flies. Since a good low power or no power glide path is so important with these dif. thrust models (in my opinion) that I would start there.

be sure to show all of us your progress!

[Ben-Solo]

sorry another daft question by me lol

[selfo]

lol no problem. mang!

[NitroCharged]

This mornings flight went well. I had to move the battery way back from where I thought was the balance point and a little more trimming to get nice turn both ways.
I think I will make another one - minus the CF rod (this one weighs a ton for some reason) and build in some undercamber into the wing to provide a lot more lift than this flat pancake setup I have. I'll also put some negative incidence into the tail as I have put a little up in the ailerons to get a nice AOA in this one. This should bring the weight down to around 16 grams too. I'll go though my motors and find the best performers as well as balance the props as I haven't done that to these. I'll let you know how it goes once made :)

[MIT KID]

Here's my su27 from Selfo's plans. I omitted the carbon spar, and as can be seen in the pictures, I added dihedral to the outer wing sections. Weight came in at 16 grams and grew to 17 grams after decals and repairs from the first flight. Out of the dozen or so aeroace hacks I've made this is one of the best flying. It can be trimmed to fly rather fast or if I crank in some up elevator it wallows around at high alpha. I'll tr and get some video at some point this week.

Thanks for the plans,

Adam

[selfo]

did you mount the motors and electronics in the specified areas or did you find it necessary to relocate?

Looks GREAT! love the redbull graphics!

Thanks for the powerfull testament to how well these little things fly.

im telling ya man do one w/o the diahedral and it is great to fly---no more flat washy turns but you get some roll out of her and just let er go till your done turning and bump it back to the other side!!! I say you go for it...whattid that take you an hour or so?

cant wait to see the vid.

selfo'"

[AirNerd]

Mit that looks AWSOME!!!

I'm with selfoo on the dihedral, it is not nessasary.

[MIT KID]

http://mit.edu/ajw61185/Public/minisu27/su27%20001.avi

http://mit.edu/ajw61185/Public/minisu27/su27%20002.avi

http://mit.edu/ajw61185/Public/minisu27/su27%20003.avi

Here's some short videos I took in our dining hall. On the second one I had a bit too much up trim so its a bit porpoisy