How much of a difference

[thermal]

I have the Multiplex Easy Glider Electric. It's pretty light (31 oz) with a wing loading of 7 oz/sq ft. It does well I suppose although I have nothing to compare it to. I'm the only one at the club I belong to that is interested in gliders. My question is...will I see a big difference in performance (measured as time aloft) if I go to a more advanced glider? Say something like an Omega 2M or maybe one of the Unlimited ships (around $300). I realize skill is more important than the plane. Having flown mine for a year I wonder if it's worth it to move to something better. Will I really notice a difference?

Thanks,
Bob

[Stan Myers]

Bob:
In most cases if comparing a state of the art 2m; to a state of art 3m or over; the large plane will almost always out perform the smaller. Besides its easier to see at distance.

Now, trying to keep the cost to $300 is another matter. I purchased an Ibis-E 3 meter from Art Hobby at $350. I was surprised at the quality for the $$$.

Stan

[thermal]

Stan...I've read that larger flies better, and certainly they are easier to see. :p My real question pertains to how much better they might perform as compared to the Easy Glider.

Thanks,
Bob

[wingsnapper]

Bob,
EG has an undercambered wing and I suspect you suffer from poor penetration.. right? I've never seen one in the air, but most people have reported it to be pretty good in calm conditons. For sure you would do better with most any plane that is larger. If I had to pick I'd say that a good 100" -120" plane would be a good start. Prices from $80-as much as you want to spend. Still, you should be able to thermal the one you got first. Ballast up a bit and pick your days. They all have the ablility to stay up a really long time, but most important is the pilot's skill in finding and exploiting good air.

BTW: I started in a power club too, and never learned anything about thermalling from them. Find a good soaring club to visit ,and you will be amazed at what these birds can do in the right hands.

Good luck,
JS

[R. Carver]

I had a chance to fly an Easyglider one time...a fellow showed up at the club field with one and wanted help getting the power system sorted out. I gotta tell you, the thing flew better than I expected. WAY better!
If you get one of the "high performance" 2 meters, I doubt you'll notice much difference. A 3 meter will outperform it, but only in the hands of a competent pilot.

[Ollie]

"I'm the only one at the club I belong to that is interested in gliders."

My comment is, "That is the wrong club for your interest." Fly with a soaring club even you have to drive to it. You will know what you have enough skill, equipment and, fun. It is good for your time and money.

http://www.flyesl.com/News-y-Articles/featured_article.asp?FORUM_ID=7&TOPIC_ID=173

http://www.silentflight.org/

TIDEWATER MODEL SOARING SOC

District: IV
NUmber: 959
Type: Radio Control
Contact Information:

Contact: MICHAEL MATTHEWS
Phone: 757/539-6804
Email: Email
Address: 110 BRACKLEY CT
SUFFOLK, VA 23434-8023

RICHMOND RADIO CONTROL SOARING SOCIETY

District: IV
NUmber: 2379
Type: Radio Control
Contact Information:

Contact: DOUGLAS BARRY
Phone: 704-367-1077
Email: Email
Address: 12224 JAMIESON PL
GLEN ALLEN, VA 23059

http://skss.org/wpress/

http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/Trimming.html

[thermal]

Thanks for the input. I really do need to get to a glider oriented club. The closest I have found online is over two hours away so it may be a while. I do intend to go to some contests this year to try and learn as much as I can.

The EasyGlider does perform pretty well from what I can surmise. However today I was flying it in 15 to 20 mph winds and it was all over the place. I could control it but was unable to get much altitude even flying at a slight angle to the wind. Landings were a mess with it wanting to porpoise when it got near the ground.

I'd like to try a large electric powered glider around 120 inch wingspan. I like building so maybe I can find some high performance plans somewhere and give it a go.

Bob

[mdiley]

Bob,

My first question to you would be to ask how proficient you are with the plane you're flying. Are you able to thermal the EZ Glider? From a reasonable height on a calm day can you keep it up 10 minutes (without motor) if the lift is going? Have you ever specked it out? If you answer is yes to either of those questions then I'd say you'd have fun with a larger plane (you'll have fun anyway, but if you're not able to thermal the 2m the 3m isn't necessarily a huge advantage to learning that skill IMO). If not, the EZ Glider is the perfect plane to hone your thermaling skills on. I flew a 2m Gentle Lady until on a good day I could keep it up more than 10 minutes and then bought my first 3m. Once I knew what to look for with the 2m I found that finding lift was easier with the 3m and the greater weight gave it better range. However, I still enjoy flying the GL and fly both regularly.

As a side note I just bought an EZ Glider myself. I think it's a great flying model and I like it as a "keep in the car" sailplane that I can fly in any open area I come across. My flying buddy was thermaling his inverted a few weeks back (the lift was really going).

I'd agree with an earlier post that finding other flyers with similar interests will make your gliding more fun.

Matt

[Hostage-46]

I plan to help a buddy maiden his easy glider this weekend. I suspect it will fly akin to the easystar he's been flyng, which I found to be a nice flying airplane, easy to thermal.

If you're into building, and like 2M have a look at the Wind-dancer from Polecat aero.

http://polecataero.com/products/wind-dancer

[hilgert]

Dan, what a great guy you are - helping a buddy (oh, that's ME!!!) :D

I've had so much fun with my EasyStar I bought another to build. Flys very nicely, and handles my sometimes ham-fisted attempts to land it with much forgiveness. It's true, the EZ* is the plane that gives so much but asks so little.

When I saw the EasyGlider Electric on rcgroups I was amazed at what people were saying about it. A couple of the EZ*'s minor flaws have been corrected as well. So, I purchased one knowing that I would one day get into soaring (mostly so my friend Dan Ahearn will stop pestering me about it), but I also knew a few other things. First, I am not a patient person in terms of learning things; I like to "toss-n-learn", so I needed a glider that could take a some abuse. Second, I knew I wanted electric since I like to sometimes fly at lunch just down from my office, and have no patience for setting out a launch system (however simple), and I don't see myself getting into hand-tossing (I want to go HIGH, and go high NOW). Finally, I like to experiment, and I REALLY like the Elapor foam these Multiplex things are made of. Takes CA instantly (does not have to be "foam safe"), and is easy to work with. So, the EG Electric was perfect.

I have mine complete (for now) for a test flight on Saturday, and MotoCalc say's I'll get 34 (or so) ounces of thrust, so this thing should almost go vertical (I only need 75 degrees or so to be happy). Very well designed plane. I put a bunch of CF into the fuse and a bit in the wings (I just know I'll try to "warmliner" it), and I beefed-up the nose and motor mount (which I replaced with a direct-drive outrunner and larger prop - much less noisy than the stock gearbox).

[Wylie Shaw]

Bob if your gonna build one take a look at Ray Hayes Bird series, all are excellent kits and they fly extremely well... WWW.SKYBENCH.COM


Best Regards

Wylie S.

[rdwoebke]

Thanks for the input. I really do need to get to a glider oriented club. The closest I have found online is over two hours away so it may be a while. I do intend to go to some contests this year to try and learn as much as I can.


I'd suggest giving them a visit before you make a purchase. I have not been fortunate to have a glider club very close to me either, but I try to fly with clubs in the 2-3 hour drive range at least a few times a year (last year only 3 times, but normally I get about 7 trips in a year). Having an opertunity to "window shop" will help your decision process quite a bit.

Also, stating if you like RES planes or want a full house plane or if you want to build would help us make suggestions too.

Ryan

[wingsnapper]

Unless you have good skill and a slick plane, 20 mph winds = a good day to build. Reason? Thermals travel downwind too. This forces you to bug out from lift before gaining much height. Also the wind will sap thermals ablility to build over one area. This pretty much eleminates one's (my) ablility to sky out from really low altitudes. Others may have different results, but I'm not there yet.

I'd go so far as to recommend flights of over 30min from highstart before "moving up". IOW... fly what ya got.
JS

[thermal]

I really appreciate all of this great information and opinions. I've flown electric and glow planes but the EasyGlider Electric is my only glider. I have only caught one strong thermal with it and on that flight I did speck it out, although it was a good ways away from me horizontally too so not sure of the altitude. I almost lost it because I could not tell the orientation but luckily I was able to get it back. I have a good color scheme with flourecent orange and flourecent yellow on it so that helps with the visual. Most of my flights are in the 5 to 10 min range depending on the height at which I turn off the motor. I know I'll want to keep flying this glider no matter what I have because it is so durable but I suppose somewhere along the line I'll jump in and try to build an open or unlimited class glider. Several good recommendations on gliders from you, and also good advise to go see some firsthand before making a decision.

Thanks,
Bob

[BMatthews]

If your Easy GLider has a wing airfoil with undercamber then you'll notice a large increase in the ability to move around and penetrate back upwind with a change to a higher performance glider be it another two meter or moving up to a slick flying 3 meter.

The only time a "floater" is best at staying aloft is on very calm days with light lift. As soon as you add in some wind to deal with the advantage slips over to the slippery model with the slick airfoil with the lower camber value that can punch out and test more sky with minimal loss in altitude.

But like most things learning to get the best out of this new performance takes a little time and testing to find out what works.

It sounds like you're stuck with flying at a power field and thus the need for electric assist launches. But the glider contests won't let you use the motor. So you either need to unmount the prop or go for an extra glider only fuselage. The second option would be the way to go but do allow for adding ballast. There's a number of designs that provide electric and glider options so finding one that'll allow a second fuselage should not be impossible by any means.

[aeajr]

I have flown the Easy Glider, Easy Star, Easy Glider Electric, Great Planes Spirit, Aspire, all 2M planes. The Easy Star comprares very well to these 2M R/E planes for ease of flying and performance in light lift.

Launches well off a hi-start or a winch.

Both the electric and the glider do OK on the slope in light to moderate lift.

If you want to see a difference, go to a 2.5 or 3M full house plane. Or even a 3M RES plane. You will notice a lot of difference.

What are you using to launch? Hi-start? What size/brand/length?

Classic floater - The Bird of Time - 3M
R/E - Light weight. Beautiful in the air
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2771

Passat - 102 inches - full house
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1451

Just some ideas

[thermal]

aeajr,

My Easy Glider is electric so I am just hand launching it. I want an open class (electric) ship that really thermals well yet can handle some wind as it is almost always a little windy here.

Bob

[rdwoebke]

aeajr,

My Easy Glider is electric so I am just hand launching it. I want an open class (electric) ship that really thermals well yet can handle some wind as it is almost always a little windy here.

Bob

I like 3 meter gliders as much as the next guy, but keep in mind that the cost for the model, servos, and power plant will at least double (if not triple) when you move from a 2 meter to a 3 meter. If that is not a problem for your pocket book, then go for it, but I know it has kept more than one pilot in the 2 meter Electric world from crossing over into the e-Ava models and the like.

The dollars and sense thing is actually one of the reasons that recently I have moved back towards 2 meter models (I have an Allegro Lite now and am working on a 2 M Aegea) from 3 meter (Paragon and Bubble Dancer) ones.

Take a look at the Art Hobby stuff. http://www.arthobby.com/gliders.html I think they would be a decent "next step" from an Easy Glider.

Ryan

[wrhinehart]

You want to make that thing fly really good?

First,
Get rid of the "Y" connecting the Ailerons and use at least a 4 channel computer radio with mixes.

Program in a Launch mode. I have added camber on the ailerons and up elevator for winch launches.

Use a mix for "Spoilerons". Flip a switch and use the throttle stick to move the ailerons up. You probably will need some elevator too.

Set a differential (100% up - 50% down) on the ailerons. Mix in some rudder input.

The CG can be set back too. (up to 5mm) It makes the bird REAL HAPPY. (not for beginners)

My only major gripe is that the tow hook is fixed and is WAY BACK. It floats up real nice on a "Rubber Band" but tracks straight out on a winch unless you create a Launch Mode.

You can easily add 4 ounces into the "Tunnel" between the wings for ballast. Remember to re-check the CG if you do.

I have "Specked out" this thing but it in NO WAY compares to a full house composite ship. Don't let anybody fool you.

If you fly the EZ set up like mine, you'll quickly be able to transition to an "Unlimited". I set my switches and modes the same as my Open Class composite Beauty.

I do not have the electric version of EZ.

We don't neen no stinkin' power.


Bill
ISS

[lincoln]

IMHO, if you haven't caught a bunch of thermals already, then multichannel stuff is just going to make things harder. I won some contests with polyhedral planes, but very few with aileron ones, although I admit my Io somehow was a good contest plane. (Obsolete now, I suppose, and fragile, but an aileron plane with only 3, count em 3 channels and no electronic mixing. Excellent landing habits.) When you have a full house glider, and you don't practice two days a week, a lot of your brain is going to have to be assigned to just flying it around, and won't be available for thermalling. If you are a really patient builder, you could not do any better than an electrified Bubble Dancer, assuming you can keep everything very light. It's kinda funny, but the Bubble Dancer is probably the easiest glider I've ever flown. Wish I had one. Owner knew it was so easy that he let me fly it off HAND LAUNCH (this is a 3 meter glider, mind you). If you are not so patient, perhaps a 100" or so glider with a real airfoil, built light. I think 100" is a good compromise between cost and performance. They fly a lot better than 2m. (Okay, if you have an Allegro Lite you are not going to do much better than that, but the AL requires just a bit more pilot workload.

Anyway, given your experience level and budget goals, an RES plane makes sense. GIven your wind problems, you probably need a real airfoil, so something like the Oly 2 is probably out, though it's what I'd otherwise recommend. (I've seen several flying students finally "get it" when flying one of these, and I fly mine when I'm feeling lazy because it's fun.) If you are going to stay electric, that really drives up your price, and if you want a floater that will drive it up even more, unless you get something compatible with what you have, that is so light already that you don't need to go high tech on the power system. Also, I suspect a regular glider will "force" you to learn to thermal. (ok, I have a slight bias, tho one of my to do's is a small electric). It would be neat to see a light Oly 2 with a d-tubed wing using Clark Y (a real one, not a Nike size 9 1/2 tracing), a 3021, or a Drela airfoil.

Flaps, ailerons, mixing radios, etc. definitely enhance performance SOME, and are worth it for serious, able competitors who practice a lot. But the cost is high in dollars, building time, tune up time, and practice time.

Keep in mind that I am a retro grouch who has not competed seriously for some years. But back in the late '80s I beat Windsongs often with my Sagitta 600. I don't think my plane was a disadvantage, either, at least not as a Sportsman.

P.S. Beware of the tendency to stuff big motors and batteries into gliders until they are gliders in name only. The original AL got by with a direct drive Speed 400 and climbed just fine if you let it move along.

[steelhead]

I'd say fly the snot out of what you got. Also, make sure that every landing is a good one.... OK, how about 9 out of 10 landings is a good one :) Before spending more money on a fancier ship. Nothing blows a person away from the hobby like throwing money away because of 1 bad landing. Learn to land it within 30 feet of you, nice and slippery smooth.

Next thing is the thermaling question. I cant tell if you want to thermal, or just want to do power up + glide downs. A lot of really neat sailplanes out there for that. They are usually heavy and do well in the wind. If you want to thermal, then fly when there is less wind (hard to do I know) early mornings and late afternoons are good. Make every launch a learning session. Always search for a thermal, and land when you are less than 100 feet off the deck.

In windy conditions, ailerons work better than a rudder for me, so you might step up to a aileron plane, even in the 2 meter range first. A Standard class plane like the SPIRIT 100 (do they make that one electric?) would fly quite nice in your conditions.

Finally, you said it is often windy there. Where you live, is it flatland? Or do you have any bluffs or rolling hills nearby? I ask because if you do, spend time there when its windy and fly the slope lift. Even a 10 mph breeze will extend your flight times at a 30 foot high hill. Also Slope lift helps you learn to deal with windy conditions :)

Next- A new plane always flys better :) If its what you want, buy it- you will be enjoying your new bird, and have your old bird too.

Finally, buy what you can afford. I've found that many medium priced planes can fly better than I can, and can be quite fun.

Oh, and buy a HLG so you dont need to go to the power field to fly :)

Good luck!

Dean

[wrhinehart]

Another thought Thermal.

I agree that you need to be able to fly the dickins out of your EZ before you get an Unlimited TD bird!! (can you say a mortgage payment?)

I have an EZ Glider. (non electric)
While it flew "OK" right out of the box it was nothing to stand up and cheer about.

UNTIL....

I reset the tail to zero decalage and moved the CG back to 80mm by removing a full ounce of nose weight. It now weighs 27 ounces in the air.

This thing really flies now!!! I'm impressed. It's a blast!!!

It signals lift real good and climbs under even the weakest of thermals!

I just modified the heck out of it. I'm actually going to move the CG back another two mm and try it out.

Bill

[Hostage-46]

I'll wager if you moved the CG and didn't even mess with the decalage you'd see a measureable improvement.

All beginner kits seem to have the CG too far forward, took me a year to figure that out on my Spirit

[thermal]

For clarification...I'm not interested in hotlining, I want to do thermal duration. Therefore, the lightest motor/battery that will do the job is what I aim at. Also, there are no slopes near me that I know of. Maryland's Eastern Shore is about as flat as it gets, but I've often thought of trying to slope a treeline. Finally, I don't think of ailerons as anything difficult to manage as all of my other planes have ailerons, using them is second nature at this point. I really prefer the control of ailerons over a E/R aircraft.

I'm about halfway through building a QuickFlick II which is a 48" DLG with only E/R control. This style of flying really appeals to me in concept. I'm anxious to try it and I bet it will really sharpen your ability to find and stay in thermals.

I'll try moving the CG on my EZglider back a bit at a time and see how that goes. Using the A/R/E are no problem, however, I have just started to experiment with camber changes during flight so that's a whole new kettle of fish. :p I'm sure thermalling is at least 80% pilot skill so I doubt at this point that any plane is really limiting me. What would be ideal, and has been suggested, would be to see other types of gliders fly and maybe get to test fly a few. Maybe that opportunity will present itself someday.

Thanks for all the suggestions and opinions, they are an education in themselves.

Bob