February 2006

[ghee-grose]

Monthly general discussion thread. :cool:

[Jim_Marconnet]

I have 2 3S LiPos, one new and one used that I bought. And a new inexpensive LiPo charger. I would like to use them on a plane project or two, but have been a little "scared" after all my reading about LiPos to actually hook it up and flip the big switch.

If in doubt, buy more gear - so I bought a Hyperion E-meter, a combination wattmeter and tachometer to use with my charger (actually either of them) to monitor the charging volts, amps, etc. and also to check out my planes to see what current they draw and how well the packs hold up under load on the ground. Am converting everything to Deans Ultra connectors since that's what the E-meter uses. And I made a long extension charging cable from an old extension cord so the LiPo pack can be in the pyrex bunker a long ways away from me and all the charging and monitoring equipment. Wish I had an infared thermometer to check the pack temperatuer, but that will have to wait a while.

Seems like I'm ready, but not sure I'm "ready". Anyone with any words of encouragement!? :)

[Johnnie Paul]

I have 2 3S LiPos, one new and one used that I bought. And a new inexpensive LiPo charger. I would like to use them on a plane project or two, but have been a little "scared" after all my reading about LiPos to actually hook it up and flip the big switch.

If in doubt, buy more gear - so I bought a Hyperion E-meter, a combination wattmeter and tachometer to use with my charger (actually either of them) to monitor the charging volts, amps, etc. and also to check out my planes to see what current they draw and how well the packs hold up under load on the ground. Am converting everything to Deans Ultra connectors since that's what the E-meter uses. And I made a long extension charging cable from an old extension cord so the LiPo pack can be in the pyrex bunker a long ways away from me and all the charging and monitoring equipment. Wish I had an infared thermometer to check the pack temperatuer, but that will have to wait a while.

Seems like I'm ready, but not sure I'm "ready". Anyone with any words of encouragement!? :)

"Just do it!" oh wait, thats if your getting a new pair of Nike's...

I have only tried one LiPo batt as that is what Rick fixed me up with for Christmas...I need another, so I can fly longer.

[nitro125]

i onyl had one for a while but i got another one with doeble the mah. Its double the weight but it sure is more fun. With a 3s 640 mah i was gettin around 9 min but with the 1250 im gettin over 20 min.

[dee-grose]

One comment on your setup...

I read once (somewhere here on RCG) that long charge leads aren't good. Seems like it was something about increased resistance and incorrect voltage readings. I could be totally wrong, but that is the only thing that jumped out as odd when I read your post.

Good luck :D

Andy

[Jim_Marconnet]

One comment on your setup...

I read once (somewhere here on RCG) that long charge leads aren't good. Seems like it was something about increased resistance and incorrect voltage readings. I could be totally wrong, but that is the only thing that jumped out as odd when I read your post.

Good luck :D

Andy The main reason for my long leads is to get the battery away from the expensive equipment and the operator. They are 18 AWG, so will have negligible resistance at my 1 amp and less charging current.

I've read of people deliberately using long small awg charging leads so the voltage drop tricks the charger into stopping charging at a little lower final charged voltage, reducing % of total capacity slightly, but being a little more conservative in staying below the dangerous voltage at which plating begins and therefore destruction of the cell begins. That's easier than monitoring the charger constantly and stopping it when the voltage reaches the limit you choose.

You did not mention my obvious lack of personal safety equipment: helmet with face-shield, bulletproof vest, and electrician's gloves - actually I do have a set of 15,000 volt electrician's gloves I bought at a garage sale - for cleaning out the bird bath/fountain! :)

[Mars Flyer]

I was intrigued by the discussion of charging wire length and decided to do the calculations. I found the resistance of various wire sizes at
http://www.bnoack.com/index.html?http&&&www.bnoack.com/data/wire-resistance.html

18 awg wire has a resistance of 6.6 ohms/1000 ft (21.9 ohms/km). Assuming Jim's leads are each 10 ft long you get 0.066 ohms per lead. The voltage drop across the wires is given by E = I R with I = 1 amp and R = 0.066 ohms. This gives a voltage drop of 0.066 volts per lead or 0.13 volts total - probably not enough to worry about. If you were charging one of those huge packs at say 10 amps, the voltage drop would be 1.3 volts which might be significant.

You electrical engineers can check my numbers. You can use the same table to see how those itty bitty wires we sometimes use on our planes can cause power loss at high throttle. Remember that power = I^2 x R. I think our biggest mistake is usually in the connectors. I don't know the resistance of JST connectors but they are generally rated at 3 amps. I've read posts of folks cooking them with slightly higher currents.

Interesting stuff.

Rob

[Jim_Marconnet]

I ran into the photo below of a competitor at a DLG contest. Realized we have way too much fun here in the Huntsville area and take things way too fun/easy. Look at his plane. Look at his ankles. This guy trains for the competition. Serious stuff, IMHO.

[ghee-grose]

Discus launch glider.... that's a neat thing to watch somebody experienced toss like that! :D

[dee-grose]

The guy in that picture is what many would call the DLG god...Dr. Mark Drela. He's an aerodynamicist at MIT.

[Jim_Marconnet]

Last week I bought a Hyperion E-Meter at R/C Hobbies. Rick got it in for me, and another one in case someone else wants one right away.

http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datasheets/hp/emeter/emeter.htm

I've been wanting to know the volts, amps, RPMs etc. of my SS and other planes. This meter does all that.

I bought the meter, which comes with a 100 amp shunt, and also the optional 20 amp shunt. I did not buy the computer interface cable yet. That records the data at about a 2-3 second sampling rate. Not really sure I really need that at home, and I for sure don't want to add a portable computer to my flight box!

Also the cheapie LiPo charger I bought has no instrumentation whatsoever beyond a bright LED that lights up when it's on. This unit works as a wattmeter to give real-time Volts and Amps readouts as well as totaling the mAh input and output.

The unit also field-programs the Hyperion ESCs, but I don't have any of them or the adapter cable.

The reason I mention all this is that when I'm at the flying field some might want to borrow this unit to static-test your current setup on the ground. Are you overloading your ESC? Is the battery holding a reasonable voltage under load? What RPM is that prop really turning on the ground?

It uses Deans Ultra connectors, but adapters can be made to most anything that you can get a male and a female connector to. I'm personally standardizing on Deans Ultras. So if you would like to try out this unit, and need an adapter, get with me about getting one made up ahead of time.

I started a thread of E-Meter user tips/experiences:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4231

See you flying soon, especially as the weather gets better!

[Moonbeam Six]

The beautiful blue sky yesterday just after sunset was irresistable, so I grabbed Debbie and my camera, and rushed out in the front yard for a quick flight. There was a surprisingly strong breeze from the north just above the housetop level. I was trying to maneuver Debbie up close to the moon high overhead for a nice picture, but she kept wanting to turn downwind. A long time ago, I was told by a gray-headed old CW3 instructor pilot, "A pilot's primary job is to fly the aircraft." I guess I should have given that more attention. While fiddling with the camera, I let Debbie get within the sphere of attraction of a magnetic tree. A thin top branch snagger her by the tail, and there she hung. Cycling the throttle and controls did nothing but make the branch shake. Several attempts to shoot the branch in two in the waning daylight were unsuccessful. Finally, just the right gust of wind dislodged her. I had the transmitter in hand, and tried to fly her away from the tree, but the magnetic force of the tree was too great (actually it was a jammed hard left rudder), and she spiraled down and lodged in a lower branch. This time, we could reach her with a long bamboo pole, and got her down. Unfortunately, the nearly two-year-old Reynolds Wrap covering on the wing was shredded by the last tangle with the tree. Oh, well! It was about time to re-cover it anyway. The only structural damage was one broken and one missing rib. The moral of the story is to fly the airplane and stay away from magnetic trees. That would be all trees.

[Jim_Marconnet]

The beautiful blue sky yesterday just after sunset was irresistable, so I grabbed Debbie and my camera, and rushed out in the front yard for a quick flight.....
Sorry to hear of this. Glad the damage was minimal and is repairable.

I've read but never done it to keep a pair of soccer balls on hand if you are flying near trees. I guess you need 2 in case one gets caught in the tree, too.

[Jim_Marconnet]

I had 2 nice flights this AM and Jason, 1.5 also at NDD. In his case 1-with and 0.5-without his video/still camera. Hope the video comes out. It was a shakedown flight for a new camera setup he hooked onto the landing gear.

I would not have been surprised if more flyers had come, but it was COLD! I'll think long and hard about going out again when it's below 30 unless I have some good gloves. Jason said his fingers were cold even with his gloves. And our batteries got cold too, and lasted less long than otherwise. Guess I need to bring along an old sock or something similar to keep the battery warm in flight. And I saw recently at Big-K an electrically-heated coffee mug for auto use that had 4 different adjustable temperature settings. That might be good for battery storage at the field, perhaps with some sand in the bottom to keep it stable.

[ghee-grose]

I've read but never done it to keep a pair of soccer balls on hand if you are flying near trees. I guess you need 2 in case one gets caught in the tree, too.

Trust me, I was assisting with the plane retrieval and I doubt I could even get a soccer ball that high! It was UP THERE! Maybe somebody with a better arm and pair of balls (soccer that is) could do it, but not me. :o

[Ultralight]

Flew for a little while after work and was flying inverted and tried to pull out the wrong way and BAM!...faceplant. The li-po survived(thank God) and oddly enough i don`t think the shaft is bent but the motor mount bit the dust. The back wing holder at first glance looked like it just passed through the fuse but it is split on the side. Oh well...back to helping Rick out with his retirement. I think i need to change my screen name to Crash.



Jason

[Jim_W]

Flew for a little while after work and was flying inverted and tried to pull out the wrong way and BAM!...faceplant. The li-po survived(thank God) and oddly enough i don`t think the shaft is bent but the motor mount bit the dust. The back wing holder at first glance looked like it just passed through the fuse but it is split on the side. Oh well...back to helping Rick out with his retirement. I think i need to change my screen name to Crash.



Jason

Dayum! You dismembered the motor! ;) If you fly, you WILL crash! :eek: Just a part of it!

[Moonbeam Six]

Jason,

Ouch! Sorry to hear about the face plant. Inverted with a Slow Stick is an awkward condition. My brushed 300-C doesn't have enough power to pull out with forward stick. Maybe your BL would do it. Regardless, until you have more experience on your back, you might want to have enough altitude to make those kinds of mistakes with no penalty. I hope you didn't ruin the motor.

Gravitygust, you are right. And if you don't crash, your plane will be eaten by a magetic tree.

Frank

[atjurhs]

Frank, you're alive :)

I haven't seen or heard from you, or the other Grose boys in a while. Thought you guys might have flown the coop, or were building some "double secret flying machine" out in Athens. Come fly in HSV sometime.

[JoHowell]

One of my wise flying buddies told me that once I came to grips with the reality that they are all DOOMED! I would have a whole lot more fun. He helped me a lot. There's always more balsa, foam, and assorted parts. Be sure to show us the "after" state.

[UAGrad2001]

Jason,
That's pretty impressive. I just hate I missed it. Why couldn't you have done this during lunch when Andy and I were out there. Witnesses should be a requirement for crashes. I must say, you sure know how to push the envelope. Any luck on finding another motor mount? You might check out balsa product's website. I haven't given Michael his motor yet. We can just swap out the mounts. I doubt he would even notice. :)

[ghee-grose]

Flew for a little while after work and was flying inverted and tried to pull out the wrong way and BAM!...faceplant.
Jason


I think you should have PUSHED instead of PULL. :p Most lessons learned in this sport cost money...trust me, I know. :D

Just wait until you get an aileron plane and take off with the ailerons reversed...that's a fun one to try to fly out of. (right Andy) ;)

[Ultralight]

Jason,
Any luck on finding another motor mount? You might check out balsa product's website.

Balsa has them but are out of stock. I will try Ricks at lunch. I disassembled the motor and got all of the caked up mud out. This aftermarket shaft must be stronger than the original. That and the wet ground helped. I did break one wire to my windings. No problem though..nothing a little solder won`t fix. Other that that i think the motor survived.

Jason

[UAGrad2001]

Jim,
Jason and I would like to use your E-Meter one morning at NDD. We want to know current consumption for our new brushless motors with various prop setups. Thanks.

[Jim_Marconnet]

Jim,
Jason and I would like to use your E-Meter one morning at NDD. We want to know current consumption for our new brushless motors with various prop setups. Thanks.
Sure. That's exactly why I mentioned having it.

Not sure exactly when I'll be there flying again. Possibly Tuesday AM based on the long-range weather forecast. I work at the old SMDC building on Wynn Drive. I don't know where you guys work, but shoot me a PM, and possibly we can meet somewhere before then if you'd like. I can show you how to use it in a few minutes, and you could borrow it for several days if desired.

[ChromeDome]

...................... The back wing holder at first glance looked like it just passed through the fuse but it is split on the side........Jason
This could be wrapped with unwaxed dental floss and some CA and be good or better than new. Works great. I had to repair my SS tailwheel/rudder pushrod guide when I whacked the rudder with another plane on landing too close. It popped the guide off.

[ChromeDome]

..................i don`t think the shaft is bent but the motor mount bit the dust. ......Jason
There are many motor mounts for the SS on RCGroups. Here is mine for the standard 300C gearbox. I don't know how your brushless mounts but there are so many diffrent mounts that I bet there is one out there for your motor that is better than stock. A photo of mine is attached. It has survived some hard knocks.

[ghee-grose]

I went to Harbor Freight today and bought some cool stuff... I think the coolest thing is the free flight plane that was $5.99! It's one of those Hong Kong jing jong looking cheapo products, but I thought "what the heck, it's only $6". And I had a 20% off 1 item, so I used it on that and it was only $4.80 so I had to get it to try. They had two different models... one looked like a cessna, the other kinda like a firebird. Both were high wing, but the firebird was a pusher prop so I opted for that on the durability factor.

I got home and put the thing together not expecting much. It actually fit together pretty good and seemed light and fairly strong. Winds were so low that I could hardly tell which way they were blowing so off me and Matt went to try this little guy out. It has an internal Nimh battery that you charge with a little battery pack thingy that holds two AA's. It only takes 15-30 seconds for a full charge. I just charged it for 10 seconds for the test flight. As soon as I let it go it began to fly perfectly. It had enough juice in it to do two big lazy circles and gain about 20' of altitude before throttling back and decending back to earth. SWEET!!!

Next launch was with a 20 second charge which took it up about 30' or more and did about 4 circles. I could tell there were some winds aloft so I ventured further into the field beside my house into the wind. Next charge was 30 seconds. This thing went about 100' in the air and did about 6 circles before coming back down! I cannot believe how well this thing flies for so little money!!! I'm definitely going back to buy a few more while they're still on sale. They had probably 100 of them out on the shelf (and probably boxes more in the back). These will make great gifts for kids (of all sizes) birthday presents. :o

Here are some pics...

Gary

[ChromeDome]

Jim,
Jason and I would like to use your E-Meter one morning at NDD. We want to know current consumption for our new brushless motors with various prop setups. Thanks.
Don't forget that the motor will unload a lot in flight. The readings on the ground will be the highest current so the motor should not be run long on the ground.

[Moonbeam Six]

I saw those at HF awhile back, thought about it for a few seconds, then dismissed the idea. I may have to reconsider.

MB6

[JoHowell]

I went to Harbor Freight today and bought some cool stuff... I think the coolest thing is the free flight plane that was $5.99! .....

Gary

They fly really well. HF offers two different FF foamie configurations. The Lightning which is a traditional high-wing cabin, and the pusher that Gary has. The pusher has much better performance than the Lightning. But watch out, Gary, the pusher will go OOS on you real easy. There are a lot of mods to put timers and dethermalizers to get it down. Not as much a problem in the cooler temps, but let it hook a decent thermal and be prepared to wave "bye-bye".

The battery/motor/prop on these little jewels is sound and fairly consistent from one box to the next. There is a free flight club out in Oregon, IIRC, that has published a set of event rules for a FF event for models using unmodified power plants. With stick'n'tissue models of about 25" span, they have truely remarkable performance.

I've been at FF competitions where they have included both timed events and mass launches for the Lightning. They're fun for sure.

Jim

[ghee-grose]

I almost lost it a few minutes ago!!! I took it out against my better judgement and decided to fly it a few short times (not full charge). I had several two circle flights with a little wind drift, but nothing too bad. Well I put the charger on it and got on a phone call and forgot about it for about a minute and decided to launch it anyway. I took a few more steps upwind (south) to give some more room for a couple more circles or so. MISTAKE! That thing climbed and climbed to about 150' and then started its slow circling decent towards earth... only problem was it was drifting towards the huge trees around my house. It circled the tops of those trees with each lap it made drifting slowly furth downwind and by about 5 feet cleared the last tree in my yard. It continued on into the pasture on the north side of my house for another 50 yards or so before landing. WHOA!!! That was too close! I just can't believe the motor was still spinning when it landed. I must've got into a small thermal or something for it to go that high!?!?!?

$6 plane, that good a flight, that much fun,.... priceless! :D

[ghee-grose]

I just went out and tempted fait again. The wind is almost dead calm now. I gave a 75 second charge and let her rip. It climbed to probably 300' or more...straight up! The problem occured when the prop totally stopped spinning when the battery was 100% depleted and it began to porpoise (stall repeatedly). It started to go outside of the normal circle and staight toward our neighbors house across the road with several trees around. It did a pylon race looking pattern around them and split the uprights between two big dogwood trees and to a perfect landing on their lawn. :rolleyes:

I think I will quit for the day.... I think I've used up all my luck.

[FlyH2O]

Its Big! Its One Bad Mother!! :D Its My new Mothership flying wing from FlyingFoam.com. My first impression is WOW!! My Raider fit in the box it came in. Here are the Specs. 84" wing span, 21" root cord, 9.5" tip cord, and the elevons are almost 4" at the widest part. I'm going to build it this week and maiden next weekend with any luck. Pictures to follow.

Larry O

[Ken Fidler]

Its Big! Its One Bad Mother!! :D Its My new Mothership flying wing from FlyingFoam.com. My first impression is WOW!! My Raider fit in the box it came in. Here are the Specs. 84" wing span, 21" root cord, 9.5" tip cord, and the elevons are almost 4" at the widest part. I'm going to build it this week and maiden next weekend with any luck. Pictures to follow.

Larry O

Larry,
Sounds like a neat project; I cannot wait to see the wing fly. Any photos yet?
Ken

[ChromeDome]

I went to Harbor Freight today and bought some cool stuff... I think the coolest thing is the free flight plane that was $5.99! It's one of those ...........................Gary
I bought one each today. The price has gone up to $6.99. I bet Harbor Freight read yours and Jim Howell's posts and said "Hey, we can get more money for these."

[UAGrad2001]

rchotdeals has the motor/ESC combo back on sale.

$24.99 for the combo. This is the combo that Jason and I have on our SSs. I consider it well worth the money.

www.rchotdeals.com

[Mars Flyer]

Yaaay! RCRC is doing the Alabama Warbirds again!
http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2006-WarBird/2006-WarBird.html

This a great event and not to be missed if you love warbirds.

Rob

[ghee-grose]

Rob, ya reckon they would appreciate my GWS ME-109??? :D

[Jim_Marconnet]

I just wanted to let you know that I have finally charged that new 3S 1800 mAh LiPo I bought so long ago. Put it in a Corelle Casserole dish with clear lid. Connected to my PolyCharger, E-Meter with computer interfaced to my PC so I could watch it all on the big screen. Even dug out an adjustable DC power supply I built many years ago in my R/C car racing days. In those days we peak-charged our nicands by looking at a DVM while we charged. And felt them for too much warmth.

Nothing exciting happened except that my charger charged the pack to 4.237 V per cell when I'd have preferred it stop at 4.1 to 4.2 volts. Such is the danger of using instrumentation with too much precision! An ordinary bloke who simply plugged the charger to the pack and noticed the battery charged OK and did not get hot would have been happy.

Anyone suggest a 0.1 volt forward voltage solid state device that will carry 3 amps to hook in series with the pack while charging? Thanks!

[atjurhs]

Jim,

Put that LiPo in Frankie, she'll love it!

[FlyH2O]

Todd here are a couple of pictures. I used 4mm coroplast and .187" carbon tube.

Larry O

[UAGrad2001]

I noticed on their website that you have two options for ordering the motor/ESC combo - 2410-12 or 2410-09. Yet the picture shows a 2408-21. I don't remember there being any options when I placed my order. But I might have overlooked it and just chose the default by mistake. None the less, I received 2408-21 motors. But I don't see where this motor is an option anywhere. I have emailed them about the difference. I will keep everyone posted with their response.

[ChromeDome]

Yaaay! RCRC is doing the Alabama Warbirds again!
http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2006-WarBird/2006-WarBird.html
This a great event and not to be missed if you love warbirds.
Rob
This is really good news. The RCRC has had some good events in the past that got them lots of good publicity in the community. Lately in my opinion they have just wanted to fly (just like the Renegades). The city built some tennis courts near the field. The tennis players went to the city and got the airspace near the courts restricted from the club flying over them. Good news that the club is now doing more things to protect their field politically. Their Swapmeet should help also.

[Moonbeam Six]

I maidened (well... you might say "maidened") a hybrid plane this evening. Since getting Debbie caught in a tree last week and requiring a wing recover, I have missed taking the old gal for a waltz around the front yard. The urge was strong this evening, so I rigged up an adapter so I could put the wing from my Pico Stick (which is presently without receiver and ESC) onto the GymSwallow fuselage. It was a little wobbly, but I figured as long as the rubber bands held, it would be okay. It didn't fly very well, but not too badly, however, it did fly much faster than Debbie. At least it gave me a well over-due fix. Perhaps by the weekend, I'll have time to re-cover Debbie's wing.

MB6

[Jim_Marconnet]

Anyone in the Huntsville Madison area have a DVM of the real high-accuracy type .025% I could borrow for an evening or overnight to check the calibration of my Hyperion E-Meter?

Some 12.5 volts readings I took on my new LiPo when charging were called into question, and I'd like to double-check that it's reading right to two decimal digits at 12.50 V. So looking for a real accurate meter that reads out like 12.495 V or better.

I can input different voltage and current calibration constants into my E-meter if necessary. That's why I'd like to borrow a meter for more than just a few minutes, so I can work out the new calibration constants if necessary and recheck against several different packs I have on hand at different voltages.

I compared my E-Meter with an inexpensive ($4.00!) Harbor Freight DVM, both connected to my LiP0, and of course they read significantly different (12.53 vs 12.38 V), important when it comes to life and death LiPo matters like when to stop the charger.

Thanks!
Jim

[ghee-grose]

Here is a great Slow Stick build resource page for those interested....

http://www.verrill.com/rc/ss/

[Jim_Marconnet]

Here is a great Slow Stick build resource page for those interested....

http://www.verrill.com/rc/ss/
Thanks for sharing that one. I especially like the tools needed diagram with the Hacksaw crossed off, since you Don't need one since you don't want to cut the fuselage as the instructions suggest. :)

[UAGrad2001]

I was thinking my next purchase would be some sort of powered wing. Like a Zagi or Slinger. Any comments recommendations about either or feel free to suggest something else? I would like the ability to upgrade to a brushless setup eventually (or even start out with one). I really don't want a setup that includes the radio gear as I prefer to use my Optic 6. Also post any specific setup combinations or upgrades that you might have experience with. Thanks.

Christopher

[atjurhs]

Although I do not have a Slinger, I have flown Dave's. And it flys great! Dave and Don can recommend a great set-up for these.

I have owned and flown a Speed400 (brushed) OverLord from EdgeRC, and it flys a bit slower and is a bit more forgiving to a novice pilot than the Slinger. But alot of that could just be set-up.

The OverLord will cost you about $50 plus ESC, motor, and radio gear, and I think the Slinger costs about $50 but that includes ECS and Speed400 motor, but not radio gear. I could be wrong.

I have the parts to assemble a brushless Stryker. It should be in about the same speed and aerobatics class as the Slingers. And it has a LARGE following on RCGroups and other R/C bulleting bords. I paid $20 for the core, and I have to add my own vertical stabs, elevons, ESC, motor, and radio gear.

There's lots of others out there to choose from. If you sift through the "flying wings" forum, I'm sure you'll find lots of other good ones. These are just 3 that local HSV folks have had experience with.

[ghee-grose]

Yeah, what Todd said.

If you want the cheapest way out, go with either the Stryker or Slinger wing core and build it up from there. Motor etc is your choice.

[Jim_Marconnet]

[QUOTE=rocket_jim]Anyone in the Huntsville Madison area have a DVM of the real high-accuracy type .025% I could borrow for an evening or overnight to check the calibration of my Hyperion E-Meter? ..../QUOTE]
No volunteers so far. I called around some of my local EE friends. Nothing. People just don't need real accurate DC volts measurements around here much any more. Seems the world has gone digital!

So I bought a new DVM 1/2% accurate in DC volts, and am satisfied that my earlier readings are OK. No need to recalibrate the E-Meter. I still could if I came up with an even more accurate meter for comparison.

I got a Cen-Tech 37772 from Harbor Freight, only $19.99 on sale! Has all sorts of ranges of the usual volts, amps, ohms stuff; a tilting easy to read display that's an inch high; plus it measures frequency up to 20KHz and even 20 - 1000 degrees C temperature using a type "K" thermocouple, included! It's big and heavy, but the price was right!

http://www.harborfreight.com/ search for item number 37772

Onward with my Volts, Amps, RPM measurements, plus now I can measure temperature also! I can put that LiPo in a real fireproof, bulletproof vault and tell remotely if it's getting hot instead of having to take off the casserole lid and touching it.

Harbor Freight has an R/C airplane on sale for $30. I looked it over and saw that it comes on 10 different frequencies if I remember right. They had quite a few of them, all looking exactly alike, but showing their different frequencies on the box.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92304

Possibly probably junk, but they do have the replacement wing and tail for $10.00. Looks like much more of a sailplane than the power-on Aero Ace.
Edit - It's the Yellow Bee, and there are some good reports on it in RC Groups. I read to also get the $6.00 insurance. That will get you a second plane when the first one crashes, but just one new plane for the $6.00 After that you have to buy the insurance again.

[atjurhs]

Christopher,

A brushless electric version of one of these would be fun....

[Miderror]

I was thinking my next purchase would be some sort of powered wing. Like a Zagi or Slinger. Any comments recommendations about either or feel free to suggest something else? I would like the ability to upgrade to a brushless setup eventually (or even start out with one). I really don't want a setup that includes the radio gear as I prefer to use my Optic 6. Also post any specific setup combinations or upgrades that you might have experience with. Thanks.

Christopher

The first Slinger I did was a $22 set of replacement wings with a Slow Stick gear. It was to get new flyers from rud,ele flight(Slow Sticks) to ail,ele flight.
Worked well,was light and could be upgraded to BL/Lipo. Infact that is the slinger that I fly now.

The only thing you need is a center ply rib to mount motor and tips.
I will get PN and a layout of tips and rib a starter CG.

Don

[Jim_Marconnet]

Frank: Hope your wife is nearly recouperated by now and that you can rejoin us soon.

I just saw where your Tundra Tires concept has been taken to an even higher level!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3229802&postcount=30

[Moonbeam Six]

Jim,

That is a funny picture! They certainly would be a challenge to get the CG right.

My wife is doing well. Thanks. I should be able to join a sessions soon.

Frank

[dee-grose]

I stumbled across this article just now...thought others might find it interesting:

http://www.rc-cam.com/ant_exp.htm

I'd like to hear what the more experienced flyers in our group have to say on this topic.

Andy

[Jim_Marconnet]

I stumbled across this article just now...thought others might find it interesting:

http://www.rc-cam.com/ant_exp.htm

I'd like to hear what the more experienced flyers in our group have to say on this topic.

Andy
Thanks Andy for sharing this. Interesting informative.

Clearly the simplest answer is to simply start out with an Spektrum DX6 with the two cute little 4 inch antennas at 90 degrees and simply leave them alone! :)

[ChromeDome]

I stumbled across this article just now...thought others might find it interesting:

http://www.rc-cam.com/ant_exp.htm

I'd like to hear what the more experienced flyers in our group have to say on this topic.
Andy
Andy, thanks for this post. It is interesting and looks correct. The study was done by this RCGroups user " Mr.RC-CAM" He is very knowledgeable and posts a lot. He makes a line of camera switches with PIC chips that are very good.

It is interesting that the base-loaded whip performance was poor. I've seen good reports on the Hayes whip.

My experience has been with the full 40" antenna with HiTec Feather receivers. They don't get great reviews, but mine have always worked well, especially when I remember to put up the xmitter antenna :) That causes most of my glitchin' and twitchin'. (Spektrum DX6 solves that!)

My antenna never trails out straight even with soft wire. The study showed that a coiled antenna really reduced range so a curly antenna probably reduces it some also.

The 40" antenna in the study is standard. For the truly anal, here is something I came across.--
The average 72 mHz antenna length is 39". 234/frequency = length in feet.
That is: for ch 38 or 72.550 mHz, 234/72.550 = 3.225 ft. x 12 = 38.704 inches

[Moonbeam Six]

With the temperature above 40, and the flag hanging nearly limp, I decided to get a little time on the Pico Stick F in my front yard. I flew about half the battery, then brought it in for a quick Reynolds Wrap covering on the bottom of the wings, just to see if I could tell any difference. The breeze picked up slightly when I went back out, so it was hard to compare before and after. The one thing I noticed was that it seemed to more prone to want to tip stall. This could have been because the hasty covering job left a few wrinkles and loose areas around the leading edge. It didn't fly any worse, but it couldn't really say it flew any better. Conclusion: Don't bother covering the bottom of a Pico Stick wing.

On one approach to the curved walk in front of my house, I was able to touch down and roll completely out on the walk. I've probably tired to do that a couple of hundred times, including with the Slow Stick and GymSwallow, and this was the cleanest ever. I tried it several more times, but only got close once.

Addiction fed. All is well.

Frank

[UAGrad2001]

I saw a few planes flying at lunch over at the ND field. It was like temptation just outside my office window. I had to fight the urge and actually get some work done. I believe it was Rob and Jim. Come on guys, what did we see flying. If we can't share your day off for this wonderul gov't holiday at least let us fly vicariously through you all.

[Miderror]

With the temperature above 40, and the flag hanging nearly limp, I decided to get a little time on the Pico Stick F in my front yard. I flew about half the battery, then brought it in for a quick Reynolds Wrap covering on the bottom of the wings, just to see if I could tell any difference. The breeze picked up slightly when I went back out, so it was hard to compare before and after. The one thing I noticed was that it seemed to more prone to want to tip stall. This could have been because the hasty covering job left a few wrinkles and loose areas around the leading edge. It didn't fly any worse, but it couldn't really say it flew any better. Conclusion: Don't bother covering the bottom of a Pico Stick wing.

On one approach to the curved walk in front of my house, I was able to touch down and roll completely out on the walk. I've probably tired to do that a couple of hundred times, including with the Slow Stick and GymSwallow, and this was the cleanest ever. I tried it several more times, but only got close once.

Addiction fed. All is well.

Frank

If you want a neat plane take your Pico stick F and add a Crazy Max wing for a true little electric stick.(just so happen to have a Crazy Max sitting on the shelf.
Don

[Moonbeam Six]

Don,

Snap a picture of the Crazy Max, and post it.

Frank

[Miderror]

Don,

Snap a picture of the Crazy Max, and post it.

Frank

Here you go.
Imagine the Pico Fuse with it cut out to accept this symmetrical wing with ail.(painted w/testors red). A co-worker down in FL it this set up and loved it. Got many commets form the glow guys as it looked just like a mini Ugly Stick that they all knew.

Don

[Jim_Marconnet]

I'll let Rob tell about what he flew today, midafternoon. Low winds and not all that cold out, as it turned out.

Rob used my E-Meter to gather Volts, Amps, and RPM data on several props on his new brushless on his SS - gave him a justification for the prop he liked best anyway. Plus knowing he was not overloading the battery or ESC.

I flew my SS once, somehow bending the propshaft on what looked like a non-eventfull landing. I landed early to be sure which of my Dual/Rates was which. Later discovered the shaft was bent, so that was it.

Flew my Aero Ace just a little, but the wind was too strong for it.

With Andy's help and great advice, I turned upside down and maidened my Atmopod. Try as I might, I could not figure out how to get the control surfaces working all the right way at the same time. Andy clued me in to the fact that I had somehow built it upside down. All I had to do to make it work right was to move the yellow stickies that said UP and DOWN to the opposite sides of the Atmopod. Well, I did have to swap the ones saying "Right Wing" and "Left Wing". But eventually the elevons "right" was "right" and the elevator "up" was "up".

I did some very limited hovering once Andy suggested how to trim out the elevons to counter the motor torque, and I did some conventional flight till I lost orientation and it came down. Reading those yellow stickies at a distance to determine top and bottom and right vs left is really tough!

It will be a while till I can VTO and land this unique unconventional aircraft. But it gives me something I can practice takeoffs and landings indoors with this winter. Thanks Andy for getting me past several speed bumps!

[Mars Flyer]

As Jim said we had a nice, if chilly, time today. I flew my SmoothE for the first time in a couple of months. I also bumped around with my Gym Swallow Vee tail in the slight breeze. I tried several props on the Slow Stick with my new rchotdeals 2410-12 brushless. It looks like the 9x7 is best even though I was expecting a smaller prop to do better on the direct drive motor. The climb performance is no better than my GWS 400 motor with 8 cell NiMH but the 3 cell 1500 mAh LiPo gave a total of about 30 minutes in the air plus some prop/power testing time using Jim's meter. I plan to use the brushless on a smaller plane where I think it will work great.

Jim, I came back to the field after dropping my kids at the mall. I drained the LiPo in the SS. Thanks again for the power data. That is a handy device.

Here is some of the prop data
8x4 9x4.7 9x7 10x4.7 10x8
27w 42w 56w 64w low volt cutoff (battery was cold)
6060 4905 3975 3912 rpm
(apologies, the editor ate the spaces I put between the columns)

Rob

[Mars Flyer]

I stumbled across this article just now...thought others might find it interesting:

http://www.rc-cam.com/ant_exp.htm

I'd like to hear what the more experienced flyers in our group have to say on this topic.

Andy


Andy,

I studied that post several months ago. He gets some interesting results. He stated he wasn't doing lab grade measurements but didn't mention that his measurements are in the near-field. You really have to get the rcvr and xmtr several wavelengths apart to get get good measurements in the far field, but the results may not change a lot. Since we don't know the impedance (the R+j he mentions) I have settled on making my antenna lengths 1/4 wavelength which is closest to resonance. The proof is in the pudding. I was getting bad glitches on my Slow Stick with a GWS Pico receiver. I doubled the length of the antenna to 39 inches and added another 39 inch wire connected to the ground pin of the receiver to make a half wavelength dipole, which is pretty much the best you can do without adding gain which makes the antenna too directional. The wires run along the wings the excess dangles behind.

I totally disagree with his statement that lengthening a short antenna is a bad idea because you also increase the sensitivity to noise. I can't believe that this is why GWS puts short antennas on the Pico receivers. It is all about signal to noise. I would never detune one of my ham antennas to cut down on noise. The signal and noise would be reduced the same amount and it wouldn't help. Some noise comes from the receiver itself and there is probably some conducted noise from the ESC which comes on the power lines, not the antenna.

I really believe that all this antenna hoopla only matters for marginal receivers like the Pico. I have a Dean's base-loaded antenna on a Hitec 555 (dual conversion) in my Tiger Moth and have never seen a glitch even at long distances. For park flyers, the range is nowhere near the limit 5000-6000 ft limit for a dual conversion so a few dB of loss in a bad antenna just isn't noticeable. For a 1000 ft range Pico, a few dB can be important.

You can ask Frank about winding an antenna a bobbin and putting it between the servos.

It is best to keep the antenna at its full length and well away from metal or carbon fiber structures. You Spektrum users should keep that in mind too.

Rob

[Ken Fidler]

I'll let Rob tell about what he flew today, midafternoon. Low winds and not all that cold out, as it turned out.

Rob used my E-Meter to gather Volts, Amps, and RPM data on several props on his new brushless on his SS - gave him a justification for the prop he liked best anyway. Plus knowing he was not overloading the battery or ESC.

I flew my SS once, somehow bending the propshaft on what looked like a non-eventfull landing. I landed early to be sure which of my Dual/Rates was which. Later discovered the shaft was bent, so that was it.

Flew my Aero Ace just a little, but the wind was too strong for it.

With Andy's help and great advice, I turned upside down and maidened my Atmopod. Try as I might, I could not figure out how to get the control surfaces working all the right way at the same time. Andy clued me in to the fact that I had somehow built it upside down. All I had to do to make it work right was to move the yellow stickies that said UP and DOWN to the opposite sides of the Atmopod. Well, I did have to swap the ones saying "Right Wing" and "Left Wing". But eventually the elevons "right" was "right" and the elevator "up" was "up".

I did some very limited hovering once Andy suggested how to trim out the elevons to counter the motor torque, and I did some conventional flight till I lost orientation and it came down. Reading those yellow stickies at a distance to determine top and bottom and right vs left is really tough!

It will be a while till I can VTO and land this unique unconventional aircraft. But it gives me something I can practice takeoffs and landings indoors with this winter. Thanks Andy for getting me past several speed bumps!

Jim,
You may find this design of interest. Prior to working on UAVs for the Army, I was the design engineer, test pilot, as well as lab manager on the Helispy VTOL UAV. My team was the first to hover, transition into horizontal flight, transition vertical, and then descend to a vertical landing. Pictured is a demo I conducted for the Deputy Prime Minister of Singapore during the Asian Aerospace 2002 in Singapore.
Ken

[Jim_Marconnet]

Jim,
You may find this design of interest. Prior to working on UAVs for the Army, I was the design engineer, test pilot, as well as lab manager on the Helispy VTOL UAV. My team was the first to hover, transition into horizontal flight, transition vertical, and then descend to a vertical landing. Pictured is a demo I conducted for the Deputy Prime Minister of Singapore during the Asian Aerospace 2002 in Singapore.
Ken
Ken:
Very interesting! I had no idea! Congratulations!

Just for jollies, I looked up some comparative specs for the Helispy vs the Atmopod:

HeliSpy
Developer: Micro Autonomous Systems, Del Mar, California (but ownership may have changed)
Diameter: 11 in.
Height: 27 in.
Weight: 6 lbs.
Radius of action: 25 miles

The lowdown: Originally developed for DARPA and now aimed primarily at the commercial marketplace, the HeliSpy II is fully autonomous; it can also be controlled by a computer-game-style joystick and reprogrammed in the air.

Powered by an inexpensive model aircraft engine, the $25,000 craft switches from vertical to horizontal flight to gain speed.

One potential use: Police SWAT teams could send them through a window to search a building where terrorists are suspected to be hiding.

Status: In limited production

Their current owner's web site is definitely unfriendly, but I went back in web archives to 2002 and found: http://web.archive.org/web/20021210022804/helispy.com/images.html

Atmopod
Developer: Atmocraft, Stockton, CA
Diameter: 29.5 in.
Height: 15.8 in.
Weight: 9.25 oz.
Radius of action: hundreds of feet, but no on-board sensor

The lowdown: Atmopod™, "the electric rocket", is a battery-powered tail-sitting Vertical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) aircraft shaped to stably rest upright on the ground and lift off vertically like a rocket. It has enough stored energy to shoot straight up out of sight, but can also glide and fly on its wing like an airplane. In that mode, it looks somewhat like a powered kite that is equally capable of moving gracefully through the air or performing wild 3D aerobatic maneuvers thanks to the large control surfaces located directly in the propeller wash.

When commanded by a trained pilot (Not Jim, yet!), this craft can hover and land vertically. A less experienced pilot can hand launch it horizontally, operate it under reduced power like a park flyer, and put it down on the keel.

http://www.atmocraft.com/atmopod.htm

Ken: When I get my Atmopod trimmed out a little better and learn to takeoff, hover, and land a little, you'll have to walk all the way down the street and show me how it's really done!

[Miderror]

These fly very well if you like VTOL stuff.
http://www.phlatboyz.com/TheLab/images2/NightOwl/NightOWL.html

Don

[Jim_Marconnet]

These fly very well if you like VTOL stuff.
http://www.phlatboyz.com/TheLab/images2/NightOwl/NightOWL.html

Don
Don: Thanks so much for sharing that. They made that design look easy to fly and transition back/forth between vertical flight.

I did not quite understand their "self stabilizing orientation, so you never have to know which side is top or bottom."

Too bad they don't have nearly the videographers' talent that we have locally. I found their videos somewhat boring and lacking in storyline.
Jim

[Moonbeam Six]

Don,

Thanks for the Crazy Max picture. Looks like the Pico Stick could rather easily transition into something like that. My list of future projects seems to be growing lately, so I'd better just think about that one for awhile.

Frank

[ChromeDome]

Don: Thanks so much.............Too bad they don't have nearly the videographers' talent that we have locally. I found their videos somewhat boring and lacking in storyline.
Jim
There is a lot of local talent. glider-gider Dave's video work is really good. Also it makes it more interesting if it is us and local scenery in the video. Did you get to see Gary Morris's SlowStick video from Nashville with air traffic contol audio dubbed in?

[Jim_Marconnet]

Please tell me that someone got out and flew yesterday. It was soooooo wonderful out as compared to Monday. And today it's raining!

I still have to replace that bent SS gearshaft and had nothing flyable in my car. Stopped at the field 11:15 ish, hoping to spectate, but nobody was there.

Went home to get my Aero Ace and to throw the Atmopod in the car. I'll try to keep them in the car in case the weather favors me.

Stopped at Lowes on the way back to get one of those nifty $25 aluminum/foam toolboxes to safely carry my transmitter, E-meter, and batteries in. First-cut organized it all last evening. Neat!

Due to the long line at Lowes, I did not make it back to the field on my way back. Hope someone got to fly on such a beautiful day!

[ghee-grose]

There's not many days that go by without me flying! Just because it's not at the site with everybody else it might not look like I fly, but I do... quite often. My son and I had yet another blast with our Aero Aces yesterday evening. The usual combat session ended with me on the losing end AGAIN!!! :D

I flew my Harbor Freight free flight plane a few times but I was very reserved due to the slight winds. ( I think I stretched my luck enough last week with it )

Your atmopod is a neat looking contraption... you're getting me interested in beginning my homemade VTOL plane. It's been on my brain's drawing board for over a year.

[Johnnie Paul]

Stopped at Lowes on the way back to get one of those nifty $25 aluminum/foam toolboxes to safely carry my transmitter, E-meter, and batteries in. First-cut organized it all last evening. Neat!



I still need to pick-up one those potential Radio boxes from sLowes...thanks for the reminder :)

Johnnie

[ChromeDome]

I still need to pick-up one those potential Radio boxes from sLowes...thanks for the reminder :)

Johnnie
Harbor Freight has these boxes also. About $20.

[Johnnie Paul]

Thanks Chromedome, I imagine I will have to check them out too.

Johnnie

[Ken Fidler]

Ken:
Very interesting! I had no idea! Congratulations!

Just for jollies, I looked up some comparative specs for the Helispy vs the Atmopod:

HeliSpy
Developer: Micro Autonomous Systems, Del Mar, California (but ownership may have changed)
Diameter: 11 in.
Height: 27 in.
Weight: 6 lbs.
Radius of action: 25 miles


Ken: When I get my Atmopod trimmed out a little better and learn to takeoff, hover, and land a little, you'll have to walk all the way down the street and show me how it's really done!

Jim,
To answer your question, I am the one in the orange shirt. The one all the way to the left is Don Miller. Don could also fly the UAV and he did a great job! That picture was a demo Don and I conducted at Elgin AF Base.
Now Don and I have fun operating Raven SUAVs in addition to designing, building, and testing new UAV components and subcomponents. :)
Ken

[Jim_Marconnet]

Jim,
To answer your question, I am the one in the orange shirt. The one all the way to the left is Don Miller. Don could also fly the UAV and he did a great job! That picture was a demo Don and I conducted at Elgin AF Base.
Now Don and I have fun operating Raven SUAVs in addition to designing, building, and testing new UAV components and subcomponents. :)
Ken
Thanks so much!

Looks like you guys have a lot of fun! Fun in the sun with large non-toys!!

What a small world it is! In the photo labeled Don and Ken at Eglin, you are standing in front of a LAV that looks amazingly like the LAV-AD prototype that I worked on for several years out at the Propulsion and Structures Directorate putting different rocket launchers on it for Rocket-De-Jour demo flights for FCS. I did not travel off the arsenal test range, but the other guys took it all over the country doing demo shots of the rockets and the gun. Rockets are great, but Guns are Virile!

Coincidentally, the guy in the front row, far left looking at the photo, looks amazingly like Rusty, one of our electronics technicians who was a whiz at building stuff really fast. Another guy in the photo looks a little like Mike, our wonder-welder and tube-fitter.

I assume that is your canister/launcher pointed vertically on top. The launchers we put on replaced the TOW launcher on the far left, and/or were mounted above that rotary gun that punched multiple 1 inch diameter holes in things at a distance really fast!

I really miss hardware work, but I moved over into software to keep food on the table when things changed politically. As you know, Things Change!

The MUAV training photo suggests to me why you sold me your SS. Somehow a SS pales in comparison that UAV!

Now we could use a few words from Don. I had no idea!

Jim

[Miderror]

Now we could use a few words from Don. I had no idea!

Jim

Ah,
Been there, done that.

[Miderror]

I was thinking my next purchase would be some sort of powered wing. Like a Zagi or Slinger. Any comments recommendations about either or feel free to suggest something else? I would like the ability to upgrade to a brushless setup eventually (or even start out with one). I really don't want a setup that includes the radio gear as I prefer to use my Optic 6. Also post any specific setup combinations or upgrades that you might have experience with. Thanks.

Christopher

Here are the parts to get you started. You would need some 1/8" ply for the center rib and tips I use 1/64 ply,taped.

Slinger wing cores
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXELS9&P=X

Joiners
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXELT2&P=X

[Jim_Marconnet]

Ah,
Been there, done that.
Thus confirmith he that he's still a man of few words!

[Miderror]

Thus confirmith he that he's still a man of few words!

Yep

[Miderror]

Dave, Ken and Don doing the Blue Plate lunch.

Sorry about the quality as the wireless eyeglass camera antenna was in my pocket and the Rx was behind me. Also no sound was this unit has no mic.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484033#post5094759

Don

[UAGrad2001]

Thought this was neat

http://www.heli-chair.com/videos_public/full_scale_heli_videos/ground_resonance/

They are the same video, just from different angles.

[Moonbeam Six]

For you Slow Stick drivers that have problems with bent prop shafts, I just posted my solution to the problem on the Slow Stick Build Advice thread.

MB6

[GLIDERGIDER]

Here are some pics of my daughter flying the AeroAce. In the front yard, this rookie did a pretty good job. I handled the camera.
Dave

[Jim_Marconnet]

Just in case we have any instrumentation experts here who might be interested, I posted some photos and volts and amps vs time data from an indoor instrumented Atmopod tethered hover test in my home office:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5098549&postcount=8

[dee-grose]

Hey, all you AeroAce guys, I just noticed this post over in the huge AA thread...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5102098&postcount=415

Makes ya want to take the batteries out after each flying session.

[ghee-grose]

Interesting.

Maybe taking (at least) the bottom three batteries out when not flying is a good idea. The guy says 70 hours... I've let mine sit in there all week... and I wonder why it takes longer to charge.

[Jim_Marconnet]

Makes ya want to take the batteries out after each flying session.
Thanks so much for sharing this. My expensive alkaline batteries have been in two Txs at least a week. Probably goners, but coming out anyway, just in case.

I reread the instructions, but they don't share this tidbit there. Perhaps its a conspiracy between Air Hogs and the Battery Manufacturers of the World. Nah! Just stupid, lowest-possible-cost engineering.

Thanks again for sharing this.
Jim

[ghee-grose]

Dump those alkalines and buy some NiMh AA's from Harbor Freight! I think the sale goes through tomorrow... I think they were about $5 for a 4 pack. 2400mah I think.

[Jim_Marconnet]

Dump those alkalines and buy some NiMh AA's from Harbor Freight! I think the sale goes through tomorrow... I think they were about $5 for a 4 pack. 2400mah I think.
I have some NiMh AAs and would certainly like to use them instead of buying disposable alkalines.

But my limited reading of the Air Hogs discussions led me to believe that the lower voltage of the NiMh AAs as compared to alkalines was sufficient to make them not work well in this application unless you added an additional battery holder for an additional cell in one or the other half of the series split battery, I forget which. That seemed like so much additional bother that I figured it easier to just buy alkalines.

But if your experience has been good with using NiMhs, then that's clearly the way to go!

Thanks for the tip on the HF sale,
Jim

[ghee-grose]

As long as the mah's are high (above 2000) you would be better off with NiMh.

[Mars Flyer]

Gary,

Have you noticed any reduction in range or longer recharge time with your NiMH. The voltage for 3 NiMH is 3.6 v vs 4.5 for Alkaline. It should make a noticeable difference. The capacity will certainly make them last a long time but the performance should be degraded. That is just theory. Your experience is certainly more relevant.

I'm glad you guys posted the disharge info. I wasn't aware of it and I just left my batteries in place. My batt tester says they are down considerably with minimal fly time. Thanks for the info.

Rob

[ghee-grose]

I haven't wasted alkalines since my early Aerobird days! I've yet to have any performance problems out of my Aero Ace running on NiMhs... but I don't have a reference point to judge against alkalines. I've had my AA specked out at maybe 200' and had no drops of signal.

[Mars Flyer]

Gary,

Good info. Thanks for the data point.

Rob

[ghee-grose]

OK Rob... question for you.... can you recharge an alkaline battery???

Check this out http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/searchdetail.asp?T1=141+0339&dept=&search=&child=

hmmmm...... ?

[dee-grose]

If anybody here is interested in getting a glow-powered trainer, somebody here at work has a Hangar 9 Alpha 40 trainer. Complete package for $175 or best offer. Haven't seen it, but they say it is in real good shape. If you're interested, let me know.

Andy