Call to all Slopers - CHEAP & EASY Slope Build [Archive]

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 10:15 AM

Hear Ye, Hear Ye,

All ye Slopers, or wantabe Slopers, or whoever thought they might want to slope, I am offering a near zero cost and nearly indestrucable slope build to you.

All you need is the radio gear (2 servos I suggest metal gear bluebirds at $15, an Rx, and a NiCd or NiMh battery) and maybe $5 or $6 in costs, yea really that's all!

Later this week, after I find out how many of you all want in on this, I will be ordering a few sheets of 2mm coroplast. The slope plan form and pics of the build are at the following website:

http://www.rcsail.com/article_beetle.htm

I'm going to make mine a little bit different, of course :) Probably a bit different wingspan, and I'll probably include a CF tube spar for stiffness.

Let me know soon how many of you want in, so I know how much 2mm coroplast to order (you can't get the 2mm stuff local). I'll order it, and we'll all build them.

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 01, 2006, 10:22 AM

Bruda,
My poster board soslo2 is going to take you out:)

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 10:28 AM

Here's another planform that will fly a bit slower than the first one (flying plank) I posted.

Notice this one can be built with a motor (BRING IT ON GliderDier - I'll send that little foam board thingy to the deck), or it can be built without for the slope.

Again, near zero cost, and tough enough for the quarry.

Dave, does that mean your in?

wheatfly

Feb 01, 2006, 10:56 AM

atjurhs

How are you liking the Moth? I haven't heard you say much about it but I love the way it looks.

Johnnie Paul

Feb 01, 2006, 10:59 AM

I'm in...must ...do ...the ...mountain

dee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 11:09 AM

Todd, give us prices on the coroplast you are planning on ordering. Got a website? I'd like to get some 2mm. You might also check the local sign shops before ordering online...might save on shipping.

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 11:16 AM

The only place I've been able to find it so far is at harborsales.net They have 4'X8' sheets of the 2mm stuff for $15 all different colrs. No local sign shops that I've found lso far carry the 2mm stuff. Sign companies only use the 4mm stuff.

Are you in?

dee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 12:38 PM

Am I in? I'm thinking so.

How much is shipping gonna be? What size you gonna build? Local sign shops don't carry this, but can usually order it. Lemme know when you get a shipping quote.

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 01:34 PM

Well Andy, I like my crow well done :)

Shipping price was $96 for 1 sheet or 100 sheets. So if I can't find a local sign shop that will order it, I guess we'll be using 4mm coroplast :(

dee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 01:47 PM

Did you ask for shipping prices on smaller (ie 48x48) sheets?

How about a source for the EPP sheets for the ribs?

ghee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 03:28 PM

Sounds like you need to rename the title of this thread to "not-so-cheap & easy slope build".

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 04:26 PM

HA!

I've got some, and they can order more :D

UAGrad2001

Feb 01, 2006, 04:32 PM

I'm in.

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 06:29 PM

So right now, I have enough 2mm coroplast for Christopher and Johnnie with a total cost per person of $4! How's that for CHEAP Gary?

If you want to add a CF spar, Rick's has two that should work. One costs $10 and the other costs $6. I chose the $10 one. But, the plans don't call for it. I just think it is a good mod to add a sufficient amount of overall stiffness. You guys choose.

I think I have enough foam for the ribs for all three of us, but if you can scrounge up some of that firm (but somewhat spongy) foam that they use for packaging alot of computers these day (not stryofoam) that would be very helpful!

As to the airfoil, there is already one provided in the Beetle PDF file, but it is a very thin and "slippery "airfoil, so it would make for a very fast plane. I suggest we use something more like an MH45. Martin Hepperle's website indicates this will be a good choice, and I know it's been used on a number of other Zagi type planes with good success.

I think I still have some colored packing tape for making them look pretty and helping to hold them together - Johnnie you'll be happy to know that if I do still have some, I'll have purple. Oh, this would be FREE. How we doing on price Gary, still at $4

Anyways, let's plan on a build date. I suspect with all the stuff in front of us we can put these birds together in about 2 to 3 hours. So some Saturday afternoon in the garage would be fine.

If anyone else wants to get in on this. Let me know. You can get the 2mm coroplast from Sign*A*Rama on Airport Rd. 256-881-5080 They are currently all out, but it only takes them 2 to 3 days to order it and get it in.

Hope more folks join in the Build!

ghee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 07:20 PM

Well, if you provide foam and tape for everybody then yeah... it is cheap. You furnishing electronics too?

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 07:22 PM

On the way home, the wife called and asked me to pick up some milk and bread at WallyMart. I swung by the archery section and grabbed two CF arrowshafts for $2 each.

Gary, total cost is now at $4 + $4 = $8 (if you opt for the CF spar)

ghee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 07:29 PM

A little digging through a yard sale or maybe a dumpster might cut that cost a little more. :D

SU Jags

Feb 01, 2006, 07:56 PM

Ok I'll play, count me in. What size are the sheets, I'd like to try the 39"beetle.

atjurhs

Feb 01, 2006, 08:15 PM

If I have extra leftover stuff that I don't need or use, why not share it with my FRIENDS.

Hey, that's just the kind of guy I am, someone who likes to share things with his FRIENDS ;)

Gary, are you feeling left out :confused:

Ok, so now this Build Thread has sufficently diverged from it's topic. Perhaps we can get back on track...

ghee-grose

Feb 01, 2006, 08:50 PM

Just wasn't what I thought by the title of your thead. Maybe "friends helping friends build a cheap sloper" would fit better in my eyes. It just didn't seem too interesting to me. I'll unsubscribe from this thread and leave the thrifty builders to their fun.

We'll see how they fare against the Stryker on the slope!:D

atjurhs

Feb 02, 2006, 07:17 AM

Hey Gary, last time I saw your Stryker at the slopes, you had spent the 1st part of the day chasing after its pieces on the backside, and the 2nd part of the day doing the walk of shame to the bottom of the pit. Don't know that I'd be bragging much about your Stryker at the slope :D

Welcome aboard SUJags!

I'm sure we have enough coroplast to make another. I'll PM you my contact info shortly for setting up a build date.

More good news! I did find four rolls of colored tape, and yes Johnnie, purple is one of the colors :)

You will each need to buy a roll of "Extreme" packing tape from Walmart, Target, or Stapples, and some "Goop" from Lowes or Home Depot. I like the "Marine Goop". And we could use some more of the stiff-but-spongy packaging foam for making ribs out of if any of you have a source for that.

ghee-grose

Feb 02, 2006, 07:29 AM

Hey Gary, last time I saw your Stryker at the slopes, you had spent the 1st part of the day chasing after its pieces on the backside, and the 2nd part of the day doing the walk of shame to the bottom of the pit. Don't know that I'd be bragging much about your Stryker at the slope :D

I remember that day well... you were holding a camera and not a transmitter I believe. I also remember all the Oooohs and Aaaaahs from you and the rest of the crowd as the ol' Stryker rolled in combat. Besides, I'm not the only one that Dave "the bully" has sent on a walk of shame. (yes, it was a loooooong walk too) :D

SU Jags

Feb 02, 2006, 10:40 AM

Sounds good, now where can I get some of them $15 MG servos?

atjurhs

Feb 02, 2006, 10:44 AM

At Rick's, the Bluebird 308 MGs are $25 and the regular 308s are $15

UAGrad2001

Feb 02, 2006, 11:52 AM

I might be able to help with the foam. I have something here at work that might work. I will let you take a look at it.

atjurhs

Feb 02, 2006, 12:06 PM

Great Chris,

I just found some more foam that might work as well. When we start the builds, you'll want sections of it that are about 1" thick. The length and height dimensions will be determined by the overall wingspans, chord lengths, and airfoil rib heights. So you can start cutting the foam into about 1" thick blocks. And we'll all bring to the build table what we have on the day we build them.

Johnnie Paul

Feb 02, 2006, 05:57 PM

HEY!!!

You guys started with out me...

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 03, 2006, 07:28 PM

I'm looking forward to seeing some build pictures posted here.

SU Jags

Feb 03, 2006, 08:01 PM

I just downloaded a few of the beetle videos; that thing is fast, definitely faster than anything I own. I think using a different airfoil is an excellent idea.

atjurhs

Feb 03, 2006, 09:50 PM

Yep, I've been doing a fair amount of research into the whole airfoil thing, and I've decided to build my CQP (Coroplast Quarry Plank) using the MH45 airfoil. I've downloaded the coordinates and started figuring out the needed template sizes.

Last night I cut the ends off the two arrow shafts I got from Wally-Mart and the head off a 1/4-20X2" long bolt and gooped 5minute epoxy all over the the threads. Then used that to connect the two arrow shafts together. Worked great! The resulting CF shaft is 54" long. I plan to use 48" of it. I'll post pics later on.

I guess about this time I should state my plan more clearly.

I am NOT planning to build a Beetle per se. I am planning to use "the Beetle building method" on a scaled down Spad plan, see attached plan.

Given that I only have 48" of width and 12" of length (per side) of coroplast to work with (a total sheet of 48" x 24"), I have to design my CQP within these dimensions. So I can't build a true 52" Spad as the plans for that plane specify. The Spad plans also call for a different set of airfoils than just a single MH45. Infact it doesn't even use the MH45, but I'm going to use only the MH45. It is a tried and true proven flying wing airfoil. And I'm taking a KISS approach. I also plan on running the CF spar from tip to tip. Finally, I MAY not be using a single tail feather as most planks use, but rather coroplast wing tips like most flying wings use (that decision still requires some more investigation). So all these mods make for an UNPROVEN design.

Note, my previous hobby was (and still is) EXPERIMENTAL rocketry, meaning I design and build EVERY thing about the rocket myself, including the motor! I like to design my own stuff, and make mods to proven designs.

WARNING Wil Robinson, WARNING. WARNING Wil Robinson, WARNING.

I believe that sound engineering/aero judgements have gone into each of my decisions for each of these mods, and I believe that my resulting CQP will fly in the speed range and wind condidtions that I am after. I am also very certain it will survive life at the quarry. But please do NOT feel obligated to follow in my UNPROVEN footsteps. You are certainly free to build any plan you come up with exactly to spec, given that I only have a 48" by 24" sheet of 2mm coroplast to offer you, ie. your WS is limited to a max of 48".

Accordingly, I am attaching the plan forms of several other coroplast flyer for you to look over. But ultimately you need to make a decision on what you want to build. Also, here's a RCGroups link to several free plans:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301997

Jim_Marconnet

Feb 04, 2006, 12:03 AM

Yep, I've been doing a fair amount of research into the whole airfoil thing, and I've decided to build my CQP (Coroplast Quarry Plank) using the MH45 airfoil.
But I thought it was proven conclusively at NDD recently that "airfoils are highly overrated!" :rolleyes:

Love your name for the sloper, your innovative ideas, and hope it works swell.
Jim

Johnnie Paul

Feb 04, 2006, 10:12 AM

building method" on a scaled down Spad plan, see attached plan.

Given that I only have 48" of width and 12" of length (per side) of coroplast to work with (a total sheet of 48" x 24"), I have to design my CQP within these dimensions. So I can't build a true 52" Spad as the plans for that plane specify. The Spad plans also call for a different set of airfoils than just a single MH45. Infact it doesn't even use the MH45, but I'm going to use only the MH45. It is a tried and true proven flying wing airfoil. And I'm taking a KISS approach. I also plan on running the CF spar from tip to tip. Finally, I MAY not be using a single tail feather as most planks use, but rather coroplast wing tips like most flying wings use (that decision still requires some more investigation). So all these mods make for an UNPROVEN design.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301997

I like the DAzi60 plan that you have posted. It will not fit as is onto a 48X24 sheet, but scaled to a 42" WS, it fits nicely as a 42X24.

Headed to wally-world to pick an arrow shaft or two...

I too have some of that in-destructable foam that computers are shipped in...not styro, it is more like a rubber foam...I'll start a collection of useable qty's. I believe DELL's are shipped in this stuff.

atjurhs

Feb 04, 2006, 10:33 AM

Great choice Johnnie!

The Dazi60 is a well proven plane that should yield you a very stable sloper just in your speed range, and I don't think scaling it to 42" should effect the overall airplane's performance by much at all.

It's only my opinion, but I believe that 80% of successfull R/C flying is the result of good piloting, not the plane per se. Granted a good plane helps a lot, and a bad plane really hinders, but I've seen really talented flyers like Dave and Don and Jon and Ken and others (don't want to sound like Romper Room listing them all out) take low performance airplanes and make them dance the jitterbug on a fart or in 25+mph winds.

SU Jags

Feb 04, 2006, 05:43 PM

What size packs do you guys use in the slope planes? I have some old packs that haven't been used in years.

6 cell 650mAh AAA
6 cell 270 mAh NI-CD, about the size of a 2/3 AA
(2) 7cell 800mAH 5/4 AAA

I'm thinking I should use the heavier pack since I may have to add weight to balance. Also, how long can I fly on a 800mAh pack?

atjurhs

Feb 04, 2006, 06:04 PM

On a four hour day at the slope, I've never used even 200mah - driving just servos doesn't (no motor) doesn't take much. But I also typically fly at least two planes. So maybe 100mah of battery per hour you expect to fly is a good rule of thumb. Dave might be a better guy to ask, as he has a lot more slope time than I.

What I think is more important is the "form factor" (geometrical shape) of the battery. Ounce you have chosen a plan type that you want to build, use a battery that's well suited to that plan. Just remeber a couple of things:

1) you want a 4.8v battery pack.

2) you will want to have some foam in the nose for the inevitable nose-in impacts into the deck

3) lead is heavier than batteries. A lot of people want to use batteries to add weight for balancing. But the physics says, if you add lead (not batteries), you will end up with an overall lighter plane, because lead is denser than batteries. So you can fit more weight in a given volume, and batteries come in fixed increments of weight based on cell size. Lead doesn't.

just my two cents.

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 04, 2006, 08:30 PM

Todd,
You correct on the usage of the batteries. But, I'm not so sure about the density of battery vs lead. I always prefer to add as much battery as the plane will hold and only then revert to lead or in my case quarters :)

SU Jags

Feb 04, 2006, 10:08 PM

No 4 cell packs, so I guess I'll use an ESC with my 6 cell pack.

atjurhs

Feb 05, 2006, 10:03 AM

Just open up a 6cell pack and take off the last two. Then re-solder the wires to the new tabs. Just don't try to solder the wires to a cell, only to the tabs. Soldering to the cells will ruin the cells. I've done this before a couple of times, no big deal.

Or Rick's has 4.8v 700mah NiCad packs for about $10

Jim_Marconnet

Feb 05, 2006, 12:32 PM

No 4 cell packs, so I guess I'll use an ESC with my 6 cell pack.
If you have a spare ESC, this sounds like an excellent idea in that you should be able to run a LONG time on the pack (whatever pack you happen to plug in!) without the Rx voltage dropping too low.

atjurhs

Feb 05, 2006, 04:44 PM

I would disagree with Jim.

There is no reason to put a huge battery pack into a sloper that will have MAYBE a total of 1hr total actual flight time per day. Servos just won't use that much wattage, and led which you can shape into the right geometrical shape makes a better balancer (in my opinion).

Additionally, why subject an ESC to the exceedingly harsh environment of the quarry, just to limit voltage???? That place destroys equipment and that's one of the main premises that's gone into the design of the CQP. What ESC is worth the $10 it will cost to buy a 4.8v battery pack from Rick. Save your ESCs for where they belong, on electric powered planes.

SU Jags

Feb 05, 2006, 10:38 PM

Todd you make a good point, but I have a limited income and I want to spend as little money as possible on this. I have the 4 ESCs and 4 packs that are not being used, so I just have to use what I got.

atjurhs

Feb 06, 2006, 08:12 AM

Using an ECS in this situation is an innovative solution, so I'll give Jim credit there. And as stated in the title, one of the premises for this build is cheap. So this solution fits that criteria by using what you've already got. But if you blow an ESC, you could also fry your RX and servos, don't ask me how I know :D So I still think I'd opt to cut two cells off of a 6pack and re-solder. I've done it several times. In fact the battery pack I'm putting in my CQP has had this done to it. If you bring your pack over, I'll do it to yours - solder is cheap too. Either way whatever you think is best....

atjurhs

Feb 06, 2006, 10:57 PM

All right, finally I'm ready to post my first build pics:

atjurhs

Feb 07, 2006, 07:40 AM

There's got to be a morning after....

SU Jags

Feb 07, 2006, 11:03 AM

Looks good! How long is your tail boom? It kinda reminds me of a Firebird.

Jim_Marconnet

Feb 07, 2006, 12:51 PM

I ran into an interesting (to me - many of the experienced flyers would know all this and more long ago) newsletter article on battery packs for sailplanes/slopers http://www.torreypinesgulls.org/Battery.htm

It goes into battery capacity and how long to expect to fly on a pack. And how to test that, too.

Good tips on soldering and how to tell if you got a good joint or a cold joint.

I've seen the black wire disease back in my olden days of R/C car racing. I did not know what it was back then, much less why it affected only one wire.

There are other good articles linked on the left side of the page. I've read just a few of them so far. Enjoy!

atjurhs

Feb 07, 2006, 01:01 PM

Thanks for the confirmation Jim. The TorreyPinesGulls Battery article is perfectly in-line with what I do and have previously stated in this thread.

SU Jags

Feb 07, 2006, 09:22 PM

This is how far along I am, I haven't decided whether or not to use my blue foam for the ribs. I think someone in my dept. got a few computers in, so I'll wait to see if they leave any "treats" in the hall. :rolleyes:

atjurhs

Feb 07, 2006, 10:48 PM

Excellent start!

A few new PCs showed up at my work today, so tomorrow I will have plenty of foam for everyone, if I go into work. I'm caught a cold/flu bug :(

steve wenban

Feb 08, 2006, 01:47 PM

Just dropped in on your thread to say G'day , Ive built a number of the DaZi's and have flown with is designer at Long Reef on the NSW east coast of Australia. The only problem Ive found with them is they havea bad case of the Zagi death sprial and will enter them if you bang a hard turn . Dont worry about your foil the MH45 is great section . My spade or Sawtooth are both from 1.9 EPP and are very strong and would be very suited to your quarry , the corro will be fine in that enviroment as well .Good luck and keep me informed of your progress .
SteveW

atjurhs

Feb 08, 2006, 11:15 PM

Well I've been so honored all day long seeing Steve's post on our little build log that I haven't wanted to post.

BTW, if any of you have read the aero theory that goes into the real Spade, it's very impressive! Here's a link

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294133&highlight=combat+plank

So I've decided ounce this CQP has it's go and flys its final slope, a Spade built to Steve's spec is definetly in my future.

Anyways, here's the pics from today's efforts....

atjurhs

Feb 08, 2006, 11:21 PM

BTW, I got lots of extra foam. First come, first serve, and when do you guys want to get your 2mm sheets of coroplast?

SU Jags

Feb 08, 2006, 11:48 PM

Umm ASAP, how bout tomorrow evening? 6-7ish

steve wenban

Feb 09, 2006, 01:15 AM

You'll be tearing holes in the sky by the weekend with that :cool:
You flatter me , but I'm just happy that some one else can get a kick out of a design that Ive created .Its like having kids lol , I'm keen to hear how you go with the plan form and the MH45 section . Should work quite well, one of the guys I introduced to corro a few years back put a plank together similiar to the Sawtooth ,we christened it the Stingray also uses and MH45 section and that flys extremely well . I really think your headed in the right direction :D I'll see if I can find his build pictures and post them here if you like
SteveW

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 09, 2006, 02:30 AM

Todd,
That build is looking great. I hate that I'm not going to be able to fly this weekend. Saturday winds are perfectly NW too. ARgh.

Miderror

Feb 09, 2006, 07:56 AM

Great job Todd,
What was/is your total build time?
Now that you have built one you should cut the build time in half for the sencond or third airframe.
Can't wait to see what it does to the air at the Quarry.
Sat.??? brrrrr

Don

atjurhs

Feb 09, 2006, 09:00 AM

Well the bad news is the right bottom wing skin did not adhere to the ribs, but was taped in place,so I don't have an airfoil at all in that section. I'll have to tear it apart and re-glue and re-tape.

I really want to take advantage of the BONE chilling NW wind coming on Saturday. She will be ready!

SUJags, come on by and get your foam tonight. That's fine.

atjurhs

Feb 09, 2006, 01:57 PM

Well, the bad news continues....

I tried re-glueing and re-taping, but that didn't seem to help matters too much.

One side looks flyable like it might actually have some sort of airfoil, the other side doesn't. I'll still throw this thing off the face on Saturday in a 15+mph NW, but I don't have too many hopes for it actually flying, and if it does, I don't think it will be much of a performer.

Not yet sure why this went awry??? All was well up to attaching the bottom 2mm coroplast skin, and it didn't look too off last night but as the goop dried....

Anyways, looks like I'm going to have to cut one of these out of EPP according to spec if I want a Spade, and I do.

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 09, 2006, 05:27 PM

Todd,
Did you wipe the coroplast with a solvent before glueing? Also, if you rough it up with sand paper the glue will stick. I've heard that coroplast has a film of plastic release agent from the production. You have to remove that release agent before glue will stick.
Dave

atjurhs

Feb 09, 2006, 06:35 PM

Perhaps I should be more clear about what took place:

As the pictures show, last night I was ready to "button her up" by attaching the bottom side's coroplast skin. So I put a smathering of goop atop each rib's bottom side and taped the underside coroplast cut out sheet in place. As the pictures show, last night everything looked fine at about 10pm. But this morning I awoke to a twisted warpped mess :confused:

Don has offerred the best explanation so far. About the fumes that goop gives off as it dries and the petroleum based coroplast reacting together. That does make sense from what I obsereved during the whole build process in that this warping didn't occur before because the goop fumes could evaporate into the house and garage. But with it all "buttoned up" from my tape, the fumes couldn't get out as easily and had a lot longer time to react with the coroplast and even the previous goopings were very soft this morning when I tried to repair it. The reaction twisted the heck out of the coroplast, and my attempts to repair it this morning (adding more goop in there not knowing what was causing the problem) didn't make things any better.

Perhaps there is something to be said for reading instructions. Stanley Chu's instructions for his Beetle build say to use epoxy. I think the warping would not have happened if I had used epoxy. Oh well, you live and learn :rolleyes:

I'm sure the other guys who also decided build a "cheap and easy sloper" have learned a good built tip at my expense ;)

steve wenban

Feb 09, 2006, 06:48 PM

I basically use hot melt glue scuffing the surface of the corro helps and when not flying
leave the aircraft in the shade never never leave it in the back of the car in the sun (ask me how I know ) :rolleyes: Dont give up Todd step back one pace regroup and have another shot at it trying hot melt glue and dont stick your finger in the glue trying to smooth it out :eek: (once again aske me how I know :D )
remember its only corro and a couple of hour work and your up there again IMHO SteveW

steve wenban

Feb 09, 2006, 07:00 PM

Sorry I hope you guys dont mind me dropping in from time to time
SteveW

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 10, 2006, 12:16 AM

Sorry I hope yuo guys dont mind me dropping in from time to time
SteveW
Steve,
Us Slopers are thrilled to have you stop in. Visit anytime.
Dave

atjurhs

Feb 10, 2006, 12:47 PM

Steve, we are honored to have you stop by our little nitch of the web.

Well the news on my CQP gets worse....

After another night of goop drying time, the plank has twisted even more. It is essentially now a blob of coroplast sheeting, goop, and EPP with little if any visably discernable correlation to an airplane wing. So I'm pulling my electrics out of the thing and chucking it. Next time I build a sloper using this techinque, I'm not getting goop anywhere near it - mind you, I think goop is great stuff for use on EPP only sloper, but I'm not using it again with coroplast.

BTW Chris and Johnnie, I only have one more 2' X 4' sheet of 2mm coroplast left. First come, first serve. I'll be home all weekend. You should have my contact info.

Johnnie Paul

Feb 10, 2006, 01:03 PM

I can hit you up on the way home this evening...sound good? I will leave here about 3:30ish.

Hope you get to feeling better.

Johnnie

SU Jags

Feb 12, 2006, 08:39 PM

Well I'm slowly making progress on my "Beetle". I sanded the coro and cleaned it with rubbing alcohol prior to epoxying the ribs on. I also curved the front of the wing to help it conform to the shape of the airfoil. I got lazy and just used hotglue on the spar, that 12 min. epoxy was taking about 12 min. to dry. ;) Do you guys think I'll have a problem with the short spar?

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 13, 2006, 12:35 PM

Su Jags,
I sure hope your build works. Looking good so far, but so did Todds before the glue dried. How does it look today?
Dave

GLIDERGIDER

Feb 13, 2006, 12:39 PM

<snip> - mind you, I think goop is great stuff for use on EPP only sloper, but I'm not using it again with coroplast. <snip>
Todd,
When building the JW60, I'm pretty sure that I gooped the fin to the fuse. No twist was evident in that connection. Slightly different application. I've crashed that JW many times and the fin is solid to the fuse.
Dave

atjurhs

Feb 13, 2006, 01:43 PM

Dave, I think the issue that I ran into with the goop was because ounce I buttoned up the two wing skins, the fumes were not able to vent. All the goop fumes were trapped inside the wing which not only bukled the coroplast, but also softened all the goop bounds that had previously "dried". SUJags should not run into this problem using epoxy.

SUJags, recall that the original planes for the Beetle don't spec out a wing spar at all, so I wouldn't worry too much about having a short spar in there.

BTW, have you started repairing the old beat up OverLord core yet?

SU Jags

Feb 13, 2006, 02:07 PM

Dave, everything is still nice and straight. I dont think the epoxy twist it any.

Todd, I have started the repairs. I went ahead and cut the servo wells even and plugged them up, and I used probond to fill in the crack across the nose. It sure wont be winning any beauty contests, but it should be pretty solid.

atjurhs

Feb 14, 2006, 11:06 PM

Hey Guys,

I just finished the airframe of my next try at building a Cheap & Easy Slope Soarer. There's not a drop of my beloved goop, so I'm thinking I won't run into problems skinning it w/ coroplast :D

Should have plenty of room for servos, not too sure about the noseweight or what airfoil it has, but look at that vertical stab!

ghee-grose

Feb 15, 2006, 08:24 AM

Too funny Todd! Have you gotten over that cold bug yet?

SU Jags

Mar 04, 2006, 12:19 AM

Alrighty, it has been a while but I'm almost done with this thing. I just need to get some control rods, attach the elevons, and locate the CG. I hope to have it done this weekend.

atjurhs

Mar 04, 2006, 06:53 PM

Jags,

Your Beetle is looking GREAT!

Pray for a North or NW wind.

SU Jags

Mar 05, 2006, 08:25 PM

Well it's done; although I may need to get some tougher control horns, I don't think the little GWS ones are gonna cut it. I have done a few "test glides" across my bedroom to find the CG, and I think I'm pretty close. :D Next step is the outdoor glide.

Johnnie Paul

Mar 10, 2006, 09:56 AM

Looks like this thread has slowed to a crawl...when does the slope season end? ...or does it?

I hope to get my new modules on Monday or Tuesday, and maybe some of the 2" bi-dir tape from Don's group buy. I will then fold me out a sloper with the items I picked up from Todd.

Johnnie

atjurhs

Mar 10, 2006, 10:40 AM

The slope season will end in 4-6 weeks, built fast grasshoper.

Johnnie Paul

Mar 10, 2006, 11:51 AM

May have to motor mount this wing and make a aileron trainer out of it...

Johnnie Paul

Mar 11, 2006, 12:30 PM

I have read the DAZI threads over, and one of the most common ideas used was to mount wings together with double sided tape. So I trekked off to Wally-World and found some fiberglass reinforced doublesided carpet tape...

I have not tried it yet, but I have peeled some of the backing off of this tape and it looks like 5 or 6oz glass sandwiched between some really sticky layers.

I have my dAzi cut out, and it will have a 40.5" WS. I also purchased a $.50 yardstick to split for the wing spar, and with the arrow shaft that Todd has given me, this dAzi could possibly take a real beating...kind of a "last wing flying" thang...(not a challenge by any means) :D

Johnnie

atjurhs

Mar 11, 2006, 01:26 PM

Excellent!

You should certainly have that dAzi thang ready by next weekend, if not later this weekend. We're flying tomorrow, so if you finish it tonight...

Johnnie Paul

Mar 12, 2006, 05:18 PM

Excellent!

You should certainly have that dAzi thang ready by next weekend, if not later this weekend. We're flying tomorrow, so if you finish it tonight...

$4 airframe, but $60 module + battery pack...hope to pick those up Monday or Tuesday...

Here was my play time for today...I rode the roads till I found some realtor signs to get my 4mm coroplast for my doubler :)

Also cut the wally-world arrow shaft to length...nice fold over :D

Johnnie

GLIDERGIDER

Mar 12, 2006, 10:35 PM

Johnie,
Its looking good. Good build pics. Thanks for sharing.
Dave

$4 airframe, but $60 module + battery pack...hope to pick those up Monday or Tuesday...
Here was my play time for today...I road the roads till I found some realtor signs to get my 4mm coroplast for my doubler :)
Also cut the wally-world arrow shaft to length...nice fold over :D
Johnnie

Johnnie Paul

Mar 16, 2006, 09:30 PM

So I programmed the Thunder bird ESC, stuffed the nose with foam, made final adjustments to the servos, and proceded to fold the wing.

It wasn't pretty, but it worked quite well. I still need to finalize the control surfaces, throw some purple tape on her, and program her to my radio, and I will be ready to maiden...maybe this weekend with the prop installed. Weather permitting of course.

Johnnie

GLIDERGIDER

Mar 17, 2006, 07:40 AM

Johnie,
Whats the AUW and wingspan? Looks real good for coroplast.
Dave

So I programmed the Thunder bird ESC, stuffed the nose with foam, made final adjustments to the servos, and proceded to fold the wing.

It wasn't pretty, but it worked quite well. I still need to finalize the control surfaces, throw some purple tape on her, and program her to my radio, and I will be ready to maiden...maybe this weekend with the prop installed. Weather permitting of course.

Johnnie

Johnnie Paul

Mar 17, 2006, 07:48 AM

Jim_Marconnet

Mar 17, 2006, 08:32 AM

Before staples and ailerons I was at 20.5oz I am shooting for 26 AUW.

I do have a question for those that be, egarding the battery choice. I am using a 9.6v 1000mAH 8 cell nicad and I do not believe that it will have the umph to keep the wing in the air for any length of time, if at all...The little Purple can motor has a KV of 2283 (RPM/volt).

Can I get more battery advice before I go any further? If I need a bigger juicer, then I am at a point that I can cut 'er open and make the transplant.

thanks to anyone who might have an answer for me :)

Johnnie
You said Nicad? Sorry, I'm no good on battery advice other than just go with LiPos right away (which I did not do 'cuz I had some old NiMh packs on hand, and I was a tiny bit afraid of charging LiPos!).

You mentioned making a battery transplant... After my recent experiences with my modified DBPS with velcro battery track and Velcro strap(s), I've been spoiled with having the battery pack so easily moved fore and aft to adjust CG, or to be replaced. I can put on a larger pack if necessary for a windy day or longer run-time. I can fly with several different packs the same day, etc.

Is there a practical way to put on a Zip-Lock or tape-on battery hatch or something similar on your plane so you don't have to unstaple your plane to change out battery packs? Sorry if I'm way off base, since I don't exactly understand the design you are building. But a single, fixed, embedded battery pack seems really inconvenient and limiting.

Jim

Johnnie Paul

Mar 17, 2006, 08:56 AM

You said Nicad? Sorry, I'm no good on battery advice other than just go with LiPos right away (which I did not do 'cuz I had some old NiMh packs on hand, and I was a tiny bit afraid of charging LiPos!).

You mentioned making a battery transplant... After my recent experiences with my modified DBPS with velcro battery track and Velcro strap(s), I've been spoiled with having the battery pack so easily moved fore and aft to adjust CG, or to be replaced. I can put on a larger pack if necessary for a windy day or longer run-time. I can fly with several different packs the same day, etc.

Is there a practical way to put on a Zip-Lock or tape-on battery hatch or something similar on your plane so you don't have to unstaple your plane to change out battery packs? Sorry if I'm way off base, since I don't exactly understand the design you are building. But a single, fixed, embedded battery pack seems really inconvenient and limiting.

Jim

Hey Jim,

nicad or nimh batteries come highly reccomended by those that slope. Since this plane will be slope soaring as well, LiPo's are not 1st choice as they are not resilient to crashing...Rick picked this battery and motor combo, and I trust his judgement, but it just seems kinda "pewny" for the plane.

A hatch also is not reccomended for sloping...again, don't want anything jumping out after a hard knock :)

Johnnie

Jim_Marconnet

Mar 17, 2006, 09:00 AM

Yep, I said I might be all wrong.... Sorry! I heard Sloper and Motor in the same paragraph, and got confused about the application.

Hey Jim,

nicad or nimh batteries come highly reccomended by those that slope. Since this plane will be slope soaring as well, LiPo's are not 1st choice as they are not resilient to crashing...Rick picked this battery and motor combo, and I trust his judgement, but it just seems kinda "pewny" for the plane.

A hatch also is not reccomended for sloping...again, don't want anything jumping out after a hard knock :)

Johnnie

dee-grose

Mar 17, 2006, 09:25 AM

Johnnie, Here's an idea...install a switchjack for a nice clean installation. More info here...

build your own:
http://www.hollyday.com/rich/hd/sailplanes/switchjacks.htm

buy one already made:
http://www.shredair.com/chps.html

The wing is looking real good so far!

Andy

Johnnie Paul

Mar 17, 2006, 09:45 AM

Yep, I said I might be all wrong.... Sorry! I heard Sloper and Motor in the same paragraph, and got confused about the application.

It is set-up to do both, but I built it to take the worst case scenario...the cliff smash and the dreaded "walk of shame"

Johnnie

GLIDERGIDER

Mar 17, 2006, 12:55 PM

Johnnie,
If you want a good sloper, ditch the 8 cell battery and use just a 4 cell. That way you will be lighter by 2-4 oz. Of course get rid of the motor and ESC too. A lighter plane will be far more resilent to crashing on the rocks. The old story is true, the bigger (heavier) they are the harder they fall.

When Sloping, the 4 cell 1000 mah battery will last 2 days, so you don't need to change it out. For e-flight, that's a different story. You will likely get about a 6-8 minute flight with the configuration you have now. It should fly as an e-flight, but it will be underpowered.

For the slope, get this bird as light as you can. What did you say was the wingspan, 48 inches? What kind of ailerons do you have balsa or coroplast? Balsa, covered with packing tape works best for stiffness. The coroplast tends to warp under aerodynamic loads, so you loose control authority.

Johnnie Paul

Mar 17, 2006, 01:17 PM

So I have just finished a long lunch converse with Todd, and have come to conclude that I need to pick one or the other "job" for the DAZI. The DAZI will either slope or take on life for E-flight.

Since this one has been mounted up with the little purple can that-can, then this build will become the E-flight version (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224031). I have priced another sheet of coroplast from where Todd got the last sheet, and I will build the slope dAzi60

In the slope version I will incorporate Andy and Daves suggestions and make a 60" light weight sloper...

Thanks to all, and we will see how the DAZI flies on brushless.

Jim,

I will now look into the flaps, and some LiPo options based on Todd's program suggestions...No more transplants :) unless I put a bigger motor on it :cool:

Johnnie

steve wenban

Mar 27, 2006, 04:34 PM

just want to throw in my 2 cents FWIW your DAzi needs a spar to hold section not just to stiffen Ibuilt these in corro out to 2.9 mtrs using 5.0mm corro for the spar
its cut with the flutes running vertical Ie fromthe bottom skin to the top skin.
the height of the spar will give you the chamber in the wing section an maintain it. it also makes the wing very stiff without the need to put carbon rods in it . hot melt glue it to the bottom skin and then just fold over it with the top skin . P.S the DAzi flies well with electric but they still have a tendency to tip stall and sprial in in the zagi death sprial . Another good version of the corro chevron wing is Called a Flute boy
it does not seem to have the same vises as the DAzi . I'll try to dig up the plan if your keen. On the other side of the coin we are kicking off a new fad down here called PCS (Profile Combat Scale) Cheap fast and Fun .
We have 18 entrants for the combat day in July so far . it will be a total carnage day as these are built from EPS and not EPP its a last man standing event . :D I'll attach a couple photo's Of my build for this event in it Art Deco camo colours :)

atjurhs

Mar 27, 2006, 04:43 PM

Hey Steve,

We've kind of hit on the combat thing here too. We call them "Don's Blue Plate Special" or DBPS.

Here's a thread to the fun...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484238

We go at it at least once a week during the lunch hour. Usually more talk than actual damage.

Johnnie Paul

Mar 28, 2006, 08:29 AM

steve wenban

Mar 28, 2006, 01:39 PM

digging for the plans will post as soon as I find them
the dogs breath is a is one of my foamie designs a fun little wing as well
ill post dimensions for it shorthly :cool:
SteveW

steve wenban

Mar 28, 2006, 02:45 PM

Ok guys here you go the alternative to the DAzi ,the flute boy. :D
SteveW

JoHowell

Mar 28, 2006, 05:47 PM

Steve,

The file looks good to my eyes. Is it designed to be a flat-bottomed airfoil with the top camber determined by the fold-over dimensions? I don't see any guidance for location of a vertical-flute spar nor recommended dimensions for the height taper. (This question assumes that this isn't a double-thickness flat plate.)

Can you clarify this issue?

Thanks,
Jim Howell

steve wenban

Mar 28, 2006, 06:25 PM

Good point Jim ,
you can infact use the same dimensions as the DAzi spar and you assupumtion with regard tp airfoil shape is right of course the simple design idea is you want faster use narrow spars ,you want slower use wider spar .Narrow thin low chambered airfoil= Speed, wide spar = fat chambered slower airfoil . The choice is yours on the final outcome you want to achieve . The other thing is you do not always end up with a flat bottomed section , in most cases the l/edge will tend to roll up and you end up with something similar to an Eppler section . Corro is not really an exact science but the do work :).
Positioning the spar will also contribute to foil shape in the form of % thickness once again moving the chamber aft and reducing l/edge entry thinkness will be faster than a fatter blunt section ,the trade off is stability you'll find the fat section more forgiving and stable than the thin fast section .
IMHO
SteveW