Winding direction realization

[birdofplay]

I have a idea question regarding winding for discussion.

I recently received my first motor winding projects from Komodo.
Orderd Dec 22 arrived Jan 7 - great service with "cheap Mail".
I received i ea 278 ver 2 and 283 ver 2 and the servo tester.

After viewing the build diagrams and after winding the whole motor
the first time I realized that winding in the direction depicted
made it Difficult to get the windings as tight as I'd like.

Yeah I'm a Neubee, Yeah I need to practice more,
Yeah I may be way off base here,
but please take a second to hear me out
even though I have not done an exhaustive search to discover
if this idea is new or not.
Apologies if it is already in the forum.

So here goes ...

I have taken the liberty of copying Komodo's diagram and
then MODifying it for discussion purposes.
I've looked at some others and they are similar.
ie. Strongmotors et al

The first attached pic is the ORIGINAL from Komodo.
The second attached pic is My version showing my idea/notion.

At point A
I would like to go to stator 7 next instead of stator 4.
and go directly to point B

Why ? because you could pull the wire TIGHT
on both the ...
"Exit of stator 1" and "Entry of stator 7"

I believe that this would not effect timing at all as all three
stators are ON at the same time.

I believe that this would make it easier to wind
yeilding a tighter stator wind. E
Especially at the inner/bottomwhere space is at a premium.
Plus the portion going betwen stator winds would be "cleaner" IMHO

So there ya go. What say ye ?

[ecologito]

Both diagrams are the exact same thing, motor don't care what wire you wind first, as far as you have the same turns on each tooth, the phases are alternate ( ABCABCABC) and you wind all the stator teeth on the same direction ( CW or CCW) you should be fine :)

[birdofplay]

Thanks for the quik reply, Eco :)

Thats what I was hoping for.

All I wanted to point out is that the winding process might be
a little tiny bit easier and/or tighter to do as I depicted.

During the small wait I created another drawing for
submission on this thread.

Plus I finaly figured out how to DO closeups with my Dig cam
I had to set it to macro mode then I used a short tripod and
then used the remote to trigger the shot ,
So I'm including pix of my first motor build.

[ecologito]

That looks great, very neat winds. Here is my not so neat 19 turns of 23 gauge wire.

[birdofplay]

Neato Eco !
Que es mas macho

How the hell do you get that much copper on there ?
Yeah ... I saw the Pix ;>}

Hey !! No fair stratching the wire :-) he he he

[birdofplay]

BTW I've been using one of those plastic "hf Coil" adjusters
with a screwdriver shape at the other end to push my winds around
and snap them into place.
Any old nylon/plastic dowel/rod would be ok too.

[Daveairway]

Hi Bird,

That is a great idea. Please send it to Komodo - I think they will like it :)

Dave

[yakman]

The way you describe it in you second pic is the way I have wound more than ten stators. It works.

[olmod]

the only difference on the second illistration and what ive always used is that the starts get locked under the finishing turn of that stator pole so you dont have the bother of them unravelling and sometimes i pass the finishing end under as well thus locking the winds totally. ;) cheers.

[birdofplay]

"the only difference on the second illistration and what I've always used is that the starts get locked under the finishing turn of that stator pole so you dont have the bother of them unravelling and sometimes i pass the finishing end under as well thus locking the winds totally. cheers."

Hey thanx for reply :-)

I could not imagine that I'd come up with anything New.
seem like I'm always late to the party :-(
It's just that all the cdrom winding "tutorials" depict it as in the 1st drawing.

After winding just one motor it seemed that there had to be a better way.

Locking the 1st turn with the last sounds interesting. I actually did that
on my 1st lobe (S1) wind also, but, it seems to me
that it requires a bit more manipulation on subsequent stators
and does not lock that first turn down at the beginning.

Mind you, I have NOT even tried my idea yet.
But Today I will attempt it on my remaining Komodo stator.
I'll post some pix when I'm done, satisfied or not.

[bz1mcr]

As others have said "your idea" will work fine and is preferred by many builders. There has been a fair amount of discussion about how to count "turns" with some feeling that "your method" uses less wire because some of the wire in the other method does not cross over and is an incomplete turn that does not count. Manuel built several motors each way and published the test data. Alot of discussion and retesting and in the end I feel there just was no clear winner.

One point of caution, on the Komodo 283 double stator back plate/end mount motors the stator must be installed up to the shoulder on the bearing carrier. If the wire is pulled to tight between stator arms it can get pinched against the shoulder and cause a short. One customer of mine could not get the wound stator on and when he realized the wire near the center hole was hitting the shoulder, he turned the stator around and installed it the other way. Then to get the motor leads to the outlet hole in the endplate he had to thread them through the stator slots and out the other side.

Now the winding stick he uses to hold the stator for winding has a shoulder on it and when he goes from one arm to the other he goes over the shoulder. BTW, making a winding stick to fit the stator ID and hold the stator is a good idea for the 283 backplate motors. It would be very difficult to wind the stator once installed on the bearing carrier.

[olmod]

Don is dead right, :) Thats exactly the same problem i encounted with the APEX and similar motors the tempory mandrel (dummy bearing tube with extra length that is a tight push on fit)you use to wind the stator on, has to either have a shoulder of about 1mm or wrap some insulation tape around the mandrel to give the same thickness for the extra clearance for the shoulder on the kits bearing tube, otherwise the wire can be pinched and cause short circuits between the stator and the bearing tube/backplate,the first mandrels i made were of wooden dowel my current one is of allum tube. cheers. :)

[MorrisM]

I also use a stator holder for motors that have a backplate style bearing tube. This one is for a 20mm customCDR motor kit. Made from nylon rod.

[BeavrdamElectric]

As others have said "your idea" will work fine and is preferred by many builders. There has been a fair amount of discussion about how to count "turns" with some feeling that "your method" uses less wire because some of the wire in the other method does not cross over and is an incomplete turn that does not count. Manuel built several motors each way and published the test data. Alot of discussion and retesting and in the end I feel there just was no clear winner.

One point of caution, on the Komodo 283 double stator back plate/end mount motors the stator must be installed up to the shoulder on the bearing carrier. If the wire is pulled to tight between stator arms it can get pinched against the shoulder and cause a short. One customer of mine could not get the wound stator on and when he realized the wire near the center hole was hitting the shoulder, he turned the stator around and installed it the other way. Then to get the motor leads to the outlet hole in the endplate he had to thread them through the stator slots and out the other side.

Now the winding stick he uses to hold the stator for winding has a shoulder on it and when he goes from one arm to the other he goes over the shoulder. BTW, making a winding stick to fit the stator ID and hold the stator is a good idea for the 283 backplate motors. It would be very difficult to wind the stator once installed on the bearing carrier.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=429210

This is the thread Don refers to.

I had the same problem with my first GBv motor. It was a good thing I only wound 2 layers, the connecting wires kept the stator from sitting where it should have. Now I wind GBvs with the stator support in place.

Good Luck!

[birdofplay]

Thanx again guys.

For some reason THIS is the kind of detailed discussion that was
hard to find (or search for).

I especially like the winding stick idea.
I never found that either. duuuhhhh ?
But, as with lots of things,
IF ya dont know the answer it's hard to ask the question.

I did almost all the second ( single stator ) Komodo yesterday
to test my ideas. I freely admit that method I described
HAS to be done with regard to Brearing Tube Fit.

Too many interruptions kept me from finishing.

I suppose that any method will have it's +'s and -'s.

I have discovered that Powerditto has covered all my other questions
and a whole lot more :-)

Thanks again all