X-Twin, Aeroace - post your mods - part 2

[micro_builder]

well the first Mod thread made it to over 1000 posts, so it seemed like a good idea to start a 2nd one to help cut down on all the wading. i've got nothing to add at this point, but the most updated version of the .txt file. keep 'em comin folks.

first mod thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401484

here's the website that has my TXT file converted to HTML. no more copy and pasting links! :) http://www.eflightwiki.com/eflightw...Airhogs_AeroAce

nick

edit: i'll continually update the TXT file when new mods or planes have been made and posted. should make things easier.

[Darkdevil_725]

good thinking you will see mine soon enough here and in my reynolds posting thread.

[troyboy162]

just a bump for this thread and blatent ad

ive got a red biplane b channel with a busted rx that im taking back tommorow to TrU unless some one really needs some parts. ive got to get at lest $27 (my pending refund) for the whole thing so make an offer on the parts or the whole

[micro_builder]

quote "Ronmar1 - My charger shows charged when trying to charge through the built in charge connector, even though the battery is discharged." post 1003 - 1005 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=401484&page=67&pp=15

i found this problem too. i'm guessing there's something in the way between the charging socket on the plane and the battery, probably a chip of some sort. it seems to only allow the same input voltage and amperage rating as the stock TX charger (i guess techincally, if you knew the exact voltage and amperage, you could try to make your own charger match it and see if that worked).

unfortunately though, there's no way to access the lipo without getting into the plane. if you split the nose open a ways, you can get to the lipo. all it'll need is a little snip of the battery wires, solder on your own connectors to it, and charge away. i did this about a week after getting the X-Twins, i didnt want to drain TX batteries, and i never really trust those TX style charger, most seem to never charge 100% correct. plus i've read that the TX charger charges at over the normally recommended 1C rating, so it'll charge faster. its obviously safe, as none have exploded, but i would'nt be surprised if it lowers the batteries life a little bit.

nick

[Hotflyer]

my two aero aces have developed a strange stopping and starting habit like there is a bad battery connection or something. I checked the connections and they both look good. Used multiple txs also and same prob. Anyone else have this problem???? :confused:

[Slowhand_47]

i found this problem too. i'm guessing there's something in the way between the charging socket on the plane and the battery, probably a chip of some sort.

There's a diode in the battery line as a protection against wrong polarity, and the Tx loader circuit is adapted to this. A standard lipo loader will always see a battery voltage that is one diode voltage drop too big, so it's fooled into thinking the battery is already full.

You can remove that diode and put it into the Tx' charging cable, but then you have to do this mod to all your planes if you still want to use the Tx charger. Or you simply add a new connector directly to the battery line.

[hoppy]

my two aero aces have developed a strange stopping and starting habit like there is a bad battery connection or something. I checked the connections and they both look good. Used multiple txs also and same prob. Anyone else have this problem???? :confused:

Were you by chance flying in an area with other 27mhz TX's in operation? That's where I experienced that kind of problem. As soon as the plane got more than perhaps 20' away from me the plane's motors would quit. 3 other guys had 27mhz stuff out there...a tank, and 2 slo flyers. All I can figure is that there TX,s were flooding my Rx.

[ronmar1]

There's a diode in the battery line as a protection against wrong polarity, and the Tx loader circuit is adapted to this. A standard lipo loader will always see a battery voltage that is one diode voltage drop too big, so it's fooled into thinking the battery is already full.

You can remove that diode and put it into the Tx' charging cable, but then you have to do this mod to all your planes if you still want to use the Tx charger. Or you simply add a new connector directly to the battery line.

Thanks Slowhand_47. I knew there must be a good explanation. I having so much fun with the AA as is, I hate to start cutting on it now, but I'd love to be able to use my std. lipo charger.

All the tx battery mods are nice and I've looked at those also. The price of alkalines are eating me alive right now soooo I guess I'll be pulling out the exacto soon for some (hopefully) minor surgery on my AA, and remove a troublesome diode.

Anyone know the correct mah rating for the AA lipo?

Ron

[Graham Smith]

I seem to remember reading in thread 'one' somewhere, that they were 130mAh size lipoly cells in the 'plane'

The other Graham

[StephanB]

Hi,
first let me say, that i feel like a beginner again since Harpye shows us his beauties. But, as i will never reach his level, i show meanwhile what i have.

This is my first attempt with graphics printed on paper japonais. Gordon Johnson published this design somewhere.
I decided to scale it up to 120 percent, which leads to a span of 53 centimetres and a final weight of 29,60 gramms. The weight is not a problem, because with this higher weight i have a nice controlled decent at the lowest throttle setting.

This plane has a detachable wing. The connectors to the motors are also responsible for holding the wing in place, a little magnet assists. In case of hard landing the wing will come off without damage. Guess, how i know... :rolleyes:

Here's a little 4MB video of the maiden flight:
http://stephanb.rchomepage.com/videos/X-mbs.wmv

Stephan :)

[ronmar1]

Thanks Graham Smith. I had an idea it would be around a 120 mah.

Ron

[epilot]

Stephan, the link does not seem to work.

Michael

[hoppy]

"Stephan, the link does not seem to work."

OH, I thought it was just a really, really fast plane.

[wrapperworm]

hiya guys,
i broken my plane but no am buying a new lipo and 2 new motors, but i aint sure what lipo i need, i think a 145Mah sud be ok, and what kinda glue shud i use to put it back together??

thanks

[StephanB]

Sorry friends, can't repair the broken videolink in my above posting.
rcgroups hosted websites are down.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459541
Please try later.
Stephan

[StephanB]

Video is working now.
Stephan

[Darkdevil_725]

add some starwars music to the beginnings credits lol the planes flys nicely who was that with the chopper in the background.

[Vifo]

Hi Stephan,
Yes, your video is working, flies gracefully well.
When you fix the motor to the front, do you cross over the Motor and reverse the propellor?
Thanks

[wrapperworm]

wot glue sud i use to stick my plane back together???

[troyboy162]

wot glue sud i use to stick my plane back together???
its got to be that 3m adhesive (77 or 68 ones bad not sure witch) that is mentioned in all the foam posts because its definaly not normal glue in there and it would be nice to alway be able to pry open your plane to fix things

[StephanB]

Hi Stephan,
Yes, your video is working, flies gracefully well.
When you fix the motor to the front, do you cross over the Motor and reverse the propellor?
Thanks

Vifo,
you have to cross the cables and to turn around the prop.
cable: black to white and white to black, blue to red and red to blue for the other side. It is less noisy than a pusher with slots in the wing and i wanted a puller after all these pushers. :)
Thanks for nice comment on video.
Stephan :)

[wrapperworm]

heya,
whay ohms are the motors? i think there 10 i just need to be sure,

[defranci]

heya,
whay ohms are the motors? i think there 10 i just need to be sure,
It's been posted that they are 5.3 ohm. Don't have a link to the exact post. It's back in part 1 somewhere.
Don

[micro_builder]

you can switch from a pusher to a puller without resoldering the wires. all you have to do is take the left and right props, flip them over, and put them on the other motor (left prop flipped over and put on right motor. right prop flipped over and put on left motor).

double sided tape can be used to put the plane back together. it'll allow you to take it back apart if you need to sometime down the road. and Don is right, the motors are 5.3ohm 6mm's. 6ohm-10ohm motors could be used for replacements.

nick

[Hotflyer]

so i just got an xufo and I was wondering how to control my aero ace with the tx. do I need to take the crystal out of the aero ace tx and put it in the ufo tx?

[Hotflyer]

while waiting for the ufo to charge, I did the Tx diode mod (jumping those two pads to P11) IT WORKED GREAT!!!! Waaaaay easier than doing the hardwire job. (no offence nitrocharged, both mods do the same thing, this one just uses the existing tx connections.) anyway, I am so pleased and impressed that there are so many smart people here sharing information about how to make good things better. Thanks a lot, all of you. :D

[lobopac]

hi all. first post......only due to a problem.

i picked up my first rc plane and had a wonderful 20 flights or so before the wires on the right wing motor broke off. too many head ons with the trees and street caused the motor to start falling off. no big deal, i just reattach it and off it goes.

is it possible to solder the wires back on, or possible to open up the motor to reattach them somehow? i have zero modding, or electronics experience....so please keep that in mind.

the motor still works if i touch the broken wires together with the throttle on. please help if you can, if not...i have some parts for mods and i'll definatly pick another one of these fun little planes up.

[troyboy162]

two questions about normal aeroace behavior
1. i though these planes kept flying when they ran out or range of the tx? this one just shuts off
2. when the battery is running low this one it just shuts off. is that normal?

[Martyn McKinney]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4852333&postcount=94

[quax]

Hotflyer,
There's no need to change the crystal of the xufo tx. But have to do some modifications. Here you can find the "how to":
http://home.versanet.de/~b-konze/xtwin/xufo_mod/xufo_mod_en.htm

Quax

[hoppy]

two questions about normal aeroace behavior
1. i though these planes kept flying when they ran out or range of the tx? this one just shuts off
2. when the battery is running low this one it just shuts off. is that normal?

1. My original AeroAces motors would run forever(?) when the TX was shut off with the throttle advanced like would happen when the model got out of range of the transmitter. The one I got this month (Jan) shuts down after a sec or so when I do the same test. (You are the first person to confirm that this was just not a fluke on my plane.)

I assume that they made a change in the circuitry (or command program). Several of us had emailed the factory with suggested changes though it is hard to believe a change could have been made that fast.

2. The Lipo battery in the plane is protected from being overdischarged by a low voltage controller which shuts the motors off when the voltage reaches a preset level.

[troyboy162]

sounds good, thanks hoppy. i guess these ones must be updated. i wonder what modifications are coming(talked about here in last post link) (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3368184/mpage_10/key_/tm.htm#) if the auto shut off has already been adressed?
edit:
hmm i tested it when i first got it and the motors shut off when the reciver was shut off. now the next day (flight right after i posted) it is definatly not shutting down and flew out of control. its either a matter off fresh batterys, fresh plane, or i was plain mistaken yesterday. i can try fresh batterys when its charged next so ill edit again with the findings.
2edit:
fresh tx batterys and the plane continues to run with the tx turned off. kind of a straight forward test i ran when it was first out of the box... weird that i would either be confused or that the circuit would start now behaving differntly after a day of running in the cold and snow(shouldnt make a difference either).

[hoppy]

Ah, so the question is still on the table. How about some more testers? Especially from AA's bought recently.

1. - Secure plane to table
2. - Advance throttle to 1/2 or there abouts.
3. - Turn off Tx with throttle in the same position it was in step 2.
4. - Do motors stop in a few seconds or do they continue to run?

[epilot]

I just swapped the original motors on a monoplane for 10ohm motors. These are longer and heavier but since I glued them on directly the net result is that the AUW stays the same. It's been raining so I could only do a test flight across the room but it was obvious that it still has the power to climb at full throttle. The motors consume less amps so flight times should be better.

Michael

[micro_builder]

after having my xtwins for 5 months, and using them almost every day, and having built numerous planes for them, i finally broke one of my RXs. i'm not sure what happened, i had the RX in my G-38 and it was flying fine two days ago, but today i tried putting it in my new tandem wing plane and it wasnt workin so well. for whatever reason, when i plug the battery into the RX, one of the motors spins slowly on its own, even if the TX is off. i unsodered everything and gave it a good looking at under a light and magnifyer, but everything looks fine. fortunately, i have a 2nd one thats still working fine.

anyway, here's the tandem wing plane i made today for the xtwin electronics. 6" wings, 2" chord, AUW of 12 grams. CG was tricky to get right, but its flying nicely now, and a lot slower than i was expecting. i think Plantracos butterfly airframe and electronics would make for a really nice (and incredibly slow) tandem wing plane.

nick

[Pete P]

You may have plugged in the battery in the wrong orientation.... I know what that does to an RX and your symptoms sounds similar!

[Bilbobaker]

after having my xtwins for 5 months, and using them almost every day, and having built numerous planes for them, i finally broke one of my RXs. i'm not sure what happened, i had the RX in my G-38 and it was flying fine two days ago, but today i tried putting it in my new tandem wing plane and it wasnt workin so well. for whatever reason, when i plug the battery into the RX, one of the motors spins slowly on its own, even if the TX is off. i unsodered everything and gave it a good looking at under a light and magnifyer, but everything looks fine. fortunately, i have a 2nd one thats still working fine.

anyway, here's the tandem wing plane i made today for the xtwin electronics. 6" wings, 2" chord, AUW of 12 grams. CG was tricky to get right, but its flying nicely now, and a lot slower than i was expecting. i think Plantracos butterfly airframe and electronics would make for a really nice (and incredibly slow) tandem wing plane.

nick

Do you have thier email address?
Bill

[Bilbobaker]

epilot
Where did you get the motors?
Bill

[Bilbobaker]

You may have plugged in the battery in the wrong orientation.... I know what that does to an RX and your symptoms sounds similar!
That sounds like it to me too.

[hklam]

The earlier fighter jet that I make for the x-twin electronics was a tad on the heavy side. I was not able to get the lift that I wanted, hence I have carded it aside.

That's when I decided to built a QJ similar to Prasadl. The wingspan is 14" and AUW is 16.2g using balsa fuse and foam plates, but without wheels. Paint work was applied using brush and hobby paint (glossy finish).

It flew great, CG was spot on upon installation, and it cruises at low speed, and can handle light wind too due to its robust and slightly heavier frame as compared to my renolds wrap x-twin butterfly. It will definitely not fly away with the wind!

Here's the pics:-


hklam

[micro_builder]

Pete, i thought about that too. but, i've accidently plugged the battery in backwards a number of times over the months (shame on me for not using the polarized plugs!). the times in the past when i did that, it did the same thing, but after plugging it in the right way, it worked fine. maybe i did it one too many times.

Bill, whos email address?

nick

[Pete P]

Yeah, too many times is the culprit!!

@Hk- Nice job!

[micromad]

Look at this photo my brother took when I was flying my x-twin in the garden.

[hoppy]

That's when I decided to built a QJ similar to Prasadl. The wingspan is 14" and AUW is 16.2g using balsa fuse and foam plates, but without wheels. Paint work was applied using brush and hobby paint (glossy finish).

It flew great, CG was spot on upon installation, and it cruises at low speed, and can handle light wind too due to its robust and slightly heavier frame as compared to my renolds wrap x-twin butterfly. It will definitely not fly away with the wind!

Here's the pics:-


hklam

Any plans/sketches??

[bEbOp ¿?]

moving battery forward DID NOT work for me. My plane would just fall on lowest setting and it required 1/2 throttle to stay up. Losing lots of air in turns.
When I got it stock Biplane or Single mod It would Gain altitude on lowest setting. Flew Like it had helium in it.! When Battery was in stock location I always had it in the lowest throttle setting and with just a little wind It would just stay in one spot, like a harrier jet. Going up & down . Somtimes I could walk under it And even walk faster then it. Its real cool when you get the PerfecT wind and get the Little Aero Ace to fly 2 feet above your head for 5 min!! Going left and right to correct wind gusts. Its not till you start making your own air frame that you fall in love with the Original super super light and snow resistant OEM one.

Can I get some help with the Proper way / Proper type OIL to use on these brushless motors.? Is there a difference in oil i should use between Brushed motors and our AA brushless/coreless ones?? I got one motor that stops 3 seconds before the other. Maybee I should take it apart and lube it up??

[hoppy]

I got one motor that stops 3 seconds before the other. Maybee I should take it apart and lube it up??

I use sewing machine oil from WalMart.

In regards to the motors spinning differently on power down, is your motor trim set so the motors are in harmony at full throttle? The trim might be set so one motor is running faster than the other.

[iter]

This has got to be he simplest mod to make, but produces an airplane that's interestingly different form the original.

Take the tail off, rearrange the wing a bit, and here you have it - an AeroAce flying wing.

Ari.

[ronmar1]

iter

Looks neat! How does it fly?

Ron

[iter]

Better than the original, believe it or not :=)

I have some video coming.

Ari.

[troyboy162]

Ah, so the question is still on the table. How about some more testers? Especially from AA's bought recently.

1. - Secure plane to table
2. - Advance throttle to 1/2 or there abouts.
3. - Turn off Tx with throttle in the same position it was in step 2.
4. - Do motors stop in a few seconds or do they continue to run?

bought one today and the motors stay on. they seem to step down in speed twice after 30 seconds or so. but they remain on.

[troyboy162]

This has got to be he simplest mod to make, but produces an airplane that's interestingly different form the original.

Take the tail off, rearrange the wing a bit, and here you have it - an AeroAce flying wing.

Ari.

how did you remove the paint from the top wing? it dosnt look like you sanded it

[Bilbobaker]

Pete, i thought about that too. but, i've accidently plugged the battery in backwards a number of times over the months (shame on me for not using the polarized plugs!). the times in the past when i did that, it did the same thing, but after plugging it in the right way, it worked fine. maybe i did it one too many times.

Bill, whos email address?

nick
Sorry nick
I meant to quote hoppy in that post.
I was refering message #31 from hoppy.
Bill

[iter]

how did you remove the paint from the top wing? it dosnt look like you sanded itI didn't :=) This particular plane came with silver coats on both the top and the bottom wings.

Ari.

[hoppy]

bought one today and the motors stay on. they seem to step down in speed twice after 30 seconds or so. but they remain on.

Very Interesting....
Mine definitely shuts off in under 2 sec with a new and old TX so the shutdown control must be in the RX. Is mine just an anomaly? Do I have the only AA in existence with fail safe electronics?

On the diode mod - It seems to have another advantage. After the mod, the plane does not seem to lose altitude during turns. Anyone else notice that? I'm guessing it's due to the difference in motor speed from the stock.

Another observation: Turning the motors so they are parallel with the wing makes the plane climb more then with the motors pointing straight back. My guess is that the motors pointing in more when parallel with the wing put more air pressure on the upper surface of the horizontal stabilizer causing
the plane to climb.

[hklam]

Any plans/sketches??

No plans or sketches but only dimensions, hopefully that helps.

Wingspan: 15 inches (not 14" as mentioned earlier)
Wing chord: 3.5 inches
TE & LE height: 1.5 inch
About 15-20 degree dihedral

Fuse length: 12 inches
Stabilizer: 8 inches


hklam

[iter]

It was a bit windy on Sunday when Chris shot the video - too windy in fact for my piloting skill. On the next flight the wind carried it over a fence and we spent the next hour figuring out how to scale it. I'll try to get better video on a calmer day. When there is no wind :rolleyes: the plane is stable and responsive. http://www.lib.aero/~ari/rc/tailless-wonder.avi

[ronmar1]

Looks like a keeper (iter)! I notice that the AA seems to fly much faster with the new wing pattern mod.

Ron

[Steve McBride]

Whew! After a marathon thread reading session, I have finally read all the posts in thread 1 and 2. I came across the Aeroace at the local Wal-Mart on Sunday and decided to see what was written about it on RC Groups before purchasing. Now I think I'll be heading there tonight to pick one up. Wish I had last night as it's dead calm here and I'm home with a sick son and nothing to do except make soup.

So many interesting models for the hardware - where to begin? I actually like Iter's model for it's unique looks and easy of construction. I'll probably go with that until I grow tired and then either mod an existing free flight foamy or scratch something.

Thanks to all who have posted and inspired!

Steve

[luke15]

hi guys,these little planes look awesome for relaxing and chucking out of my bedroom window in the middle of the night for some night flying!

wheres best to get one in the uk?i started looking for the info but the last thread is so huge i couldnt find it.

also,which plane is prefered by most,the single wing or bipe?

thanks
luke

[Martyn McKinney]

iter:

I would like to try making a flying wing as shown in your picture.

It looks like you have added reflex to the outboard sections.

How far back from the leading edge of the main wing did you attach them and at what angle ?

Thanks in advance.

[wrapperworm]

does anyone know where to get some 6ohm page motors form in the uk?? i really need the help
thanks

[mmackin]

The HX242 Dragonfly King, it's a small $30-40 helicopter. Fun to fly until the motors burn out. :(
Has a Wall charger that is compatible with the Aero Ace Plane, :D and it will charge your plane. You'll only have to use AA's for your transmitter, or if your out in the field...

[quax]

wrapperworm,

here I found didel products in the UK:
http://www.indoorflyer.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYCAT&catid=10

Maybe it's a good idea to ask Graham for the "MK06-06".

Quax

[wrapperworm]

nice one quax, i justed asked and he sed they have been discontinued, but i bought them from some usa site but i got wot i wanted and for only £11 and thtas 2 motors and a better battery!! :)
thanks wrapperworm

[Steve McBride]

Well I bit the bullett and picket one up at wally-world. Sure I could had to a TRU or target, but it's over 100 miles round trip and at $2.20 a gallon, I figured I was saving some bucks getting it locally ;)

Was very disapointed on the first few flights as I cold not trim it to fly straight. First launch had it turning left circles so I rotated the trim all the way to the right and it still did left circles.

I managed to hit about every tree in the back yard and got it stuck in one and had to shake it down. No obvious scuffs at all.

I finally took it inside and while running the motors at low power and adjusting the trim, I noticed that with the trim turned all the way right, it would mess up and apply more power to the right motor. If I backed off slightly to the left it wold work great. One last flight at dusk and I was hand catching it. A little down trim and it flies pretty well. Even flew it inside my livingroom a bit and manged about 5-6 circuits before hitting something.

Now all I have to do is pick up some sharp blades (I've already got the foam) :)

[The Enemy]

Steve,
$2.20! That's all!?! It's $0.95+CDN here all the time... That's more than $4US/Gal. Count yourself lucky.
Looks like my AA is going to have to wait. They still don't carry them at my Toys 'R' Us yet...
Corey

[hoppy]

hklam - thanks for the dimensions-

Steve Mc - Try the diode mod to activate turn control when the throttle is off. It works really nice.
Also, since you have a 2006 model (?), would you try turning off the TX with the throttle advanced and see if the motors keep running or stop after a sec or two.

Watch out, they have an affinity for roof tops..:)

[widgeteer]

So, I just bought a "Micro Ultrix Biplane. !3" span, foam bi-plane, twin pusher, etc. no flights yet. Seems to run good on the bench. Anyone have any experience with them? Sold by 'hobbico'. I can see where a lot of modifications would help. Did an 'autopsy' on my AA, gonna do somethin' fun with that.

[mharms]

Just got an Aero Ace at Target (Westgate, San Jose). They had about 5 left. Price was USD 29.99.
Serial # on box (left of UPC code): 051025SL. Serial# on plane: 051021SL. Black body/Silver wings, Channel A.

Did a quick check for auto-shutoff. The TX was turned off while at the following throttle settings and RPMs monitored at each prop (as viewed looking at the nose of the plane) :

Throttle 1, TX turned off:
Initial RPM (t=0 sec): Left 13200, Right 13200
t=12 sec RPM: Left 12900, Right 11600
motors stayed at these RPMs beyond 60 sec (ended test)

Throttle level 2, TX turned off:
t=0 sec: Left 13800, Right 13800
t=12 sec RPM: Left 12700, Right 11600
motors stayed at these last RPMs


Throttle level 3:
t=0 sec: Left 14100, Right 14100
t=12 sec RPM: Left 12700, Right 11300
motors stayed at these last RPMs

Throttle level 4:
t=0 sec: Left 14500, Right 14600
t=12 sec RPM: Left 12700, Right 11400
motors stayed at these last RPMs

Throttle level 5:
t=0 sec: Left 15000, Right 14900
t=12 sec: Left 14600, Right 13400
t=15 sec RPM: Left 12600, Right 11300
motors stayed at these last RPMs

Throttle level 6:
t=0 sec: Left 15500, Right 15400
t=12 sec: Left 14500, Right 13300
t=15 sec RPM: Left 12400, Right 11200
motors stayed at these last RPMs

It looks like aftr around 12 sec, the throttle steps down to a low setting, with the right motor throttled down lowest, so it goes into a continuous turn mode. At the higher throttle settings, the RPMs step down in 2 steps. I'll try to verify this in the field tomorrow, as well as check an older AA that I have.

---------
UPDATE:
My older AA (box serial #050629SL, plane # 050712SL) shows the same throttle-down behavior after loss of TX signal as shown in the above data. So I can't verify any "new" loss of signal behavior. Perhaps my latest purchase just wasn't a new enough unit.

I could not tell if the plane actualy goes into a continuous turn mode after loss of signal -- it was too windy today.
--------

Mark

[Graham Smith]

X -TWIN (SPEEDSTER!)
Here are the results of my extensive mods. to the biplane version of the X-twin
1. Remove lower wing and struts
2. Fuselage lightened by, cutting about 5/8” off pylon and re-gluing wing in position on fuselage, All initial cutting was done using a razor saw, then smoothed as much as possible with a sanding block. I did try smoothing the surface of the foam with a heat iron to get the surface a bit smoother, but this only offered a marginal improvement. The wing was moved a 1/4” further forward at the same time to increase the tail moment arm.
3. Reshape the fuselage making it slimmer and blending it into the tail tube.
4. Moving battery as far forwards as it will go.
5. Removing black plastic on the top of tailplane and some of the plastic around the fin. Extra glue was applied to ensure security of these components.
6. Removing grey plastic motor mounts and gluing the motors 1/4” further outwards, along the wing directly into the wing surface. This will also improve the turning ability of the plane, it also saves over 1.5 grams in weight. It could also help by allowing more cooling air to flow over the motor.
7. Rounding the tips of wing and tailplane to improve the appearance.
8. Sawing through the wing to separate top and bottom surface leaving the rear 3/4” surface of wing still joined, and then inserting a 1/16” sheet balsa spar. The wing leading edges and tips are then glued together again. This gives the wing a semi-symmetrical lower drag airfoil section.
9. Coloured trim added with strips of blue solarfilm.
These modifications reduce the drag and help the model penetrate in a breeze better, and also reduce the porpoising tendency that you tend to get with any changes in power settings, as well as making it fly at probably nearly twice the speed of the biplane. The weight has been reduce down to 15.5 grams from just under 20 grams.
10. I also glued a piece of foam, cut from the removed lower wing, to the transmitter case, so that the motor could be easily set to the slow speed setting. Run the motor at the slowest setting and make a mark on the transmitter case with a felt pen where the sick is positioned so that you know where to glue the foam, The foam acts as a stop when the stick is moved down against it. Extra downward pressure on the stick compresses the foam and cuts the motors completely.
The model will climb away from hand launch at just over half throttle setting,. The glide is also now much better than the original.

A simple way of reducing the weight and reducing drag without removing the upper wing, is to just remove the lower wing then reshape the fuselage by sawing off the sides, sanding it down so that it blends into the tailboom. Then add thin depron sheet to the underneath of the wing to give it a flat bottomed airfoil. This was what I did originally to test out the effectiveness of the above mods.

The other Graham

[Steve McBride]

hklam - thanks for the dimensions-

Steve Mc - Try the diode mod to activate turn control when the throttle is off. It works really nice.
Also, since you have a 2006 model (?), would you try turning off the TX with the throttle advanced and see if the motors keep running or stop after a sec or two.

Watch out, they have an affinity for roof tops..:)

Already did the signal loss test (throttle on, motors runing, switch off transmitter) and within about 2-3 seconds the motors stop.

I'll dig back through and look up the diode mod. I was already wishing for throttl-off-steering.

I went and forgot it at home today. We have a break room that is about 40ft x 50ft and about 20ft high. Would make a nice indoor flight area for figure 8s.

Steve

[LareeRudee]

Just got an Aero Ace at Target (Westgate, San Jose). They had about 5 left. Price was USD 29.99.
Serial # on box (left of UPC code): 051025SL. Serial# on plane: 051021SL. Black body/Silver wings, Channel A.

Did a quick check for auto-shutoff. The TX was turned off while at the following throttle settings and RPMs monitored at each prop (as viewed looking at the nose of the plane) :...............................
Mark

Slightly off topic, but maybe others too are wondering; what do you use for rpm measurement??? model, cost, and source, and DO YOU like it????

thx,
LarryR :)

[luke15]

any ideas on where to get one of these in the uk?

thanks

luke

[LareeRudee]

X -TWIN (SPEEDSTER!)
Here are the results of my extensive mods. to the biplane version of the X-twin ...............................9. Coloured trim added with strips of blue solarfilm.
These modifications reduce the drag and help the model penetrate in a breeze better, and also reduce the porpoising tendency that you tend to get with any changes in power settings, as well as making it fly at probably nearly twice the speed of the biplane. The weight has been reduce down to 15.5 grams from just under 20 grams.
...................................The other Graham

Excellent step by step info and guide........... but me, I'm looking for "slowness"............. So, how was your "low speed" affected by these mods?? slower, or about the same, or............

thx,
LarryR :)

[oforberg]

I've searched all over for the diode mod for motor off steering. Can anyone help me locate it?
Omar :confused:

[Martyn McKinney]

I've searched all over for the diode mod for motor off steering. Can anyone help me locate it?
Omar :confused:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4826311&postcount=72

[Steve McBride]

I've searched all over for the diode mod for motor off steering. Can anyone help me locate it?
Omar :confused:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=454609

About page 5.

Steve

[oforberg]

Thank you very much.

[Graham Smith]

Larry,
If you wan't slowness you can't beat the biplane. By removing the lower wing and the undercamber from the wing. I have sacrificed the slow speed qualities of the biplane. As I fly outside I wanted something that would handle a light breeze better. it doesnt seem to fly all that fast at the slowest setting, but certainly not as slow as the biplane.

The other Graham

[LareeRudee]

Larry,
If you wan't slowness you can't beat the biplane. By removing the lower wing and the undercamber from the wing. I have sacrificed the slow speed qualities of the biplane. ..................The other Graham

hmmmm, thanks for this response........... and I believe you, but wondering, with the substantial decrease in weight you experienced, I'm wondering why it won't go "slower", any ideas?? (it's just fun to "speculate"), ha.

thx,
LarryR :)

[iter]

iter:

I would like to try making a flying wing as shown in your picture.

It looks like you have added reflex to the outboard sections.

How far back from the leading edge of the main wing did you attach them and at what angle ?I hope the photos will make it clearer what I did with this mod. I made the fins from foam plates, but 2mm depron would do just fine. I glued them to the main wing with foam-safe CA.

I set the outer panels ("winglets") so that their incidence is variable; they aren't permanently fixed to the wing. I cut the heads off two T-pins and pushed them into outboard sections of the main wing and inboard sections of the winglets (the port pin is just about visible in photo #3). A piece of masking tape holds the winglets at the desired angle of incidence. This allows experimentation with different AoA and CG settings. I think I have the winglets set at about -14 degrees relative to the wing.

Ari.

[iter]

Looks like a keeper (iter)! I notice that the AA seems to fly much faster with the new wing pattern mod.The weight is practically the same as a stock plane, but there is less wing area (the winglets act as horizontal stabs) - so it should be faster with its higher wing loading. I imagine it's about as fast as the monoplane mod "the other Graham" is describing.

Ari.

[hoppy]

Already did the signal loss test (throttle on, motors runing, switch off transmitter) and within about 2-3 seconds the motors stop.
Steve

Ah ha, so there are two versions - one with ~2 sec loss of signal shut down and one without. The electronics for this are in the Rx - I wonder if there is a way to tell which one is in the box. I'll write Spinmsater and ask them.

[mharms]

Slightly off topic, but maybe others too are wondering; what do you use for rpm measurement??? model, cost, and source, and DO YOU like it????

thx,
LarryR :)

Larry,

I use the Hobbico Digital Mini Tach. It costs around USD 20 to 25. Its commonly available at hobby shops and on the web from places like Tower Hobbies, etc. I like it. Only minor annoyance is when its auto shutoff feature kicks in before my bench measurements are done. I place a flashlight so it shines thru the prop and the blade's shadow falls on the tach sensor (some fancy LED flashlights won't work because their light has an AC component). Outdoors, sunlight is used.

Mark

[mmackin]

Does anyone know if I were to flip (detach and resolder) the power to the motors if I could turn them into pullers instead of pushers? I know I could just remove the props, and flip them. But a resolder I think would be easier, at least for me...

Thanks...

[tom63]

if you remove the props and put them on "backwards" they would still move air in the same direction, just not very efectively. props have a front and back side. the concave or cupped side has to go toward the rear of the plane no matter if it is pushing or pulling.
if you reverse the direction of the motors you would have to move them to the front of the wing and then turn the props around, then the motors and props would pull.

Does anyone know if I were to flip (detach and resolder) the power to the motors if I could turn them into pullers instead of pushers? I know I could just remove the props, and flip them. But a resolder I think would be easier, at least for me...

Thanks...

[micro_builder]

its actually very easy to flip+switch the props. a lot easier than dragging out the soldering iron and trying to unsolder and resolder the wires back onto the PCB (unless you've done it a bunch of times, then its gets easier). all you have to do is pull the left and right props off the motors, flip them over and put them on the opposite motor (right prop flipped over and put on left motor, left prop flipped over and put on right motor). the props will act the same and have the same amount of thrust, they'll just be pullers rather than pushers.

nick

[Darkdevil_725]

and to reduce the chance of breaking your props just just a small flathead screwdriver to slide it of the spindle.

[Graham Smith]

Is it necessary to secure the propellors with glue to ensure that they stay on when converting to a puller (tractor) mode. as replacements can't be purchased if they fly off in flight.

The other Graham

[thead]

what does flipping the prop over do. it looks to be the same either way? by switching prop from L to R and R to L will make it from a pusher to a puller :) .

[skypix]

Ah, so the question is still on the table. How about some more testers? Especially from AA's bought recently.

1. - Secure plane to table
2. - Advance throttle to 1/2 or there abouts.
3. - Turn off Tx with throttle in the same position it was in step 2.
4. - Do motors stop in a few seconds or do they continue to run?

Hoppy, I just bought two Aero Aces (Jan 11, '06) at Target and they both shut off after one or two seconds at any throttle setting, when I turn off the TX.

:D :p :eek:

That's good, yes? Seems like they've improved the programming, thanks for the idea for the test.

[skypix]

Very Interesting....
Mine definitely shuts off in under 2 sec with a new and old TX so the shutdown control must be in the RX. Is mine just an anomaly? Do I have the only AA in existence with fail safe electronics?

On the diode mod - It seems to have another advantage. After the mod, the plane does not seem to lose altitude during turns. Anyone else notice that? I'm guessing it's due to the difference in motor speed from the stock.

Another observation: Turning the motors so they are parallel with the wing makes the plane climb more then with the motors pointing straight back. My guess is that the motors pointing in more when parallel with the wing put more air pressure on the upper surface of the horizontal stabilizer causing
the plane to climb.

That's a decent conclusion, since more of the prop wash would hit the tail, which has a decided up-pitch moment built into it.

[skypix]

X -TWIN (SPEEDSTER!)
Here are the results of my extensive mods. to the biplane version of the X-twin
......6. Removing grey plastic motor mounts and gluing the motors 1/4” further outwards, along the wing directly into the wing surface.

Graham, very nice mode. What kind of glue do you use to reposition the motors?

What does everybody think about doing the same to the stock bipe (putting them more outboard, fairing them into the wing)?

[micro_builder]

Graham (S),
i only needed to start using CA to hold one of my props on after i switched them back and forth a number of times. when you press the prop down onto the shaft, it should be a snug fit, but if it feels kinda loose, add just a tiny drop of CA onto the tip of the shaft before putting the prop on (just make sure no CA gets onto the brass bushing). an easy way to check if it needs glue is to put the props in the puller position and throttle it up to full throttle. if the props fly off, then you need the glue :)

nick

[Steve McBride]

Are these still available at Toys R Us? I will be headed to a large city and passing by a couple of the stores. I need a second (or third?) and didn't want to pay Wal-mart's $40.00 price if I could keep from it.

Thanks in advance!

Steve

[colbyweb]

Are these still available at Toys R Us? I will be headed to a large city and passing by a couple of the stores. I need a second (or third?) and didn't want to pay Wal-mart's $40.00 price if I could keep from it.

Thanks in advance!

Steve
Dunno about toys r us, but target has them at $29.95.
-Rick

[tom63]

i bought one at walmart wednesday the 11th. i tried the shutoff test. on mine nothing happened for 15 seconds then it sounded like both motors slowed down and stayed there. thinking it might have switched to a turn mode i hung the plane with a sling of dental floss under each side of the wing next to the body and tried again.
after 15 seconds the plane goes into a left turn. can't tell if the overall speed dropped but it definately goes into a left turn which should cause it to descend as it turns.

tom

Hoppy, I just bought two Aero Aces (Jan 11, '06) at Target and they both shut off after one or two seconds at any throttle setting, when I turn off the TX.

:D :p :eek:

That's good, yes? Seems like they've improved the programming, thanks for the idea for the test.

[tom63]

it's been too windy to fly my aa outside but in the front room it flys with the tail hanging down, somewhat like a 3d plane. not fond of the look. do they fly normally when there is room for them to maybe get up to a faster flying speed?
there is a video of the micro ultrix biplane. it flys level like a regular plane.
how does the motor control work on the ultrix? is it just on/ off or does it have two or more speeds? the description just says the left stick controls the speed of the motors.

thanks

tom

So, I just bought a "Micro Ultrix Biplane. !3" span, foam bi-plane, twin pusher, etc. no flights yet. Seems to run good on the bench. Anyone have any experience with them? Sold by 'hobbico'. I can see where a lot of modifications would help. Did an 'autopsy' on my AA, gonna do somethin' fun with that.

[Darkdevil_725]

wheres the vid of the ultrix

[growermn]

tom63-my aa did the same thing...just baught it last monday. I taped a dime on the front underbelly and it flyies great now, it can easly get up over the house...and the wind will take it away real easy.I just [blip] the throtle and it does not porpus [forgot how to spell]as much. will make a nice hack after i hurt the fuse and tail to much. but looks like that will be awhile. lol jeff