Copilot reliability?

[Hovertime]

I was looking ap paparazzi project site, and had a though when I saw this picture - what if a bug smashes into one of the sensors in-flight, effectively closing its view? ;)
Would it realize its situation and fly on 3 sensors or bye bye aircraft?

[AntonK]

In short No the plane would not sense a bug! I have over 200 flights with the paparazzi autopilot and I have to say its never happened. on 3 sensors in that configuration that you see with the sensors at 45 degrees I think it would just fly crooked, Ill have to think about it more

Anton

[Quacker]

In your configuration, I believe that if you block one sensor, the plane will pitch in both pitch and roll, but--what are the odds? ;>)

[rudderbud2000]

Probably the same odds as a "golden BB" :-)

[Unterhausen]

when I lived in wisconsin I rode my bike 10 miles each way to work at Trek bicycle company. One morning in early spring, I was coming down a hill and just happened to spot a lone early mosquito flying about 100 feet away. Even with that amount of warning, it still managed to fly into my eye.

It'll happen to somebody.

[mckaneorg]

hopefully you can just fly fast enough to spread the mosquitos guts over the IR sensor. Temporary coolness and back to business as the air speed dries it up.

[AntonK]

Quacker you are right. We had a set of sensor go completely out , that made the plane fly completely weird, it flew on a 45 degree axis, I can only blame my poor solderin though

[mwraight]

when I lived in wisconsin I rode my bike 10 miles each way to work at Trek bicycle company. One morning in early spring, I was coming down a hill and just happened to spot a lone early mosquito flying about 100 feet away. Even with that amount of warning, it still managed to fly into my eye.

It'll happen to somebody.

That must've been one big mosquito or you have absolutely amazing eyesight.

I have seen a lot of model planes fly in my day...and many of them in buggy places like Indiana in the summer. I have yet to see one single bug carcass anywhere on a plane.

And I would guess only a forward facing sensor is at risk unless you know of some extremely fast kamikaze insects!

For those worried about such scenarios, I offer a sensor wiper kit for $685.

No, not really.

[Hovertime]

Well once I was riding my bike on a country road, doing 65 mph or so, and some big bug hit my forehead.... I thought my head split in half, it was so painful and I thought i was bleeding - bugs guts were all over me lol... So its possible after all, oh an my heli blades are always bugged in summer time..

I wonder if these sensors can still see enough when covered with guts ;)

Seriously - Was just thinking that a lot of guys are flying using copilot as a main pilot in command completely expecting it to be 100 reliable, and simple dead bug could change that, possibly ;)

Any other bug incidents?

[ElectroLawndart]

That must've been one big mosquito or you have absolutely amazing eyesight.


I'm not sure of Wisconsin but I've seen the ones in Minnisota. I think the mosquito is the state bird. :eek:

Dart

[mwraight]

Well once I was riding my bike on a country road, doing 65 mph or so, and some big bug hit my forehead.... I thought my head split in half, it was so painful and I thought i was bleeding - bugs guts were all over me lol... So its possible after all, oh an my heli blades are always bugged in summer time..

I wonder if these sensors can still see enough when covered with guts ;)

Seriously - Was just thinking that a lot of guys are flying using copilot as a main pilot in command completely expecting it to be 100 reliable, and simple dead bug could change that, possibly ;)

Any other bug incidents?

Yeah, I've had the 60 MPH bug-to-the-face too...not the most pleasant experience. It's always the worlds biggest bug too, or at least it feels like it.

I'm sure your heli blades do get bugged quite well, but they are moving at quite a higher velocity than the tail of the average sized RC plane. Your helicopter is, in effect, a flying food processor and bug slicer. Its pretty much a consensus with all the people I know that fly powered RC - they've never found a smashed bug on the leading edges of their aircraft. Maybe we're all just lucky.

Of course, I could supply Anton with a roach from my kitchen to test how it would affect the autopilot...and yes, I can make good on this Anton!

Anyone who is flying expecting their autopilot to be 100% reliable needs help. Nothing is 100% reliable...except the fact that something will eventually go wrong!

:)

Now out to the kitchen to trap Anton's roach!

[Iraqigeek]

In real life, the odds of having hardware failure or a software bug crashing the whole system are much higher than having a bug hitting one of the sensors. In anyway, if the paparazzi project uses the two extra sesnors for the auto calibration capability, it would be very easy to sense, and recover from the failure of any one of the horizon sensing sensors, and continue level flight without the use of any additional sensors.

Still on the sensors topic, I have a question to Anton, or any other member of the paparazzi team, why are you tilting the IR sensor board 45 degrees and not like the original paper suggested? what is the advantage of tilting the sensor board?

[AntonK]

we tilt the sensors to take an average. Although the board can be mouted either way. First advantage is sometimes its hard to mount a board forward and back because the tail will be in the way. second taking the average seems to help with any inconsistancies between the sensors.

Anton

[Hovertime]

And it may actually deflect any unlucky bug being at 45degree angle, vs head on 90 degree smash in collision ;)

Thanks for this question and answer, never thought about averaging of axis... Well I don't have copilot maybe it says so in the manual, if it doesn't then it should, as sounds as a good idea.

[CenTexFlyer]

Yeah, I've had the 60 MPH bug-to-the-face too...not the most pleasant experience. It's always the worlds biggest bug too, or at least it feels like it.


Mine was one of those big blue dragonflies at that speed..... :eek: Right between the eyes :censored: !!!

[space_case]

Mine was one of those big blue dragonflies at that speed..... :eek: Right between the eyes :censored: !!!

I had what must have amounted to little more than a gnat get around my glasses one time. I was stuck out at dusk with a mirrored visor and flipped it up to get home. My eye was in such pain. I had to pull over and sort myself. The bug must have had some kind of poison in it.

So yes, bugs can ruin your day. It's not a matter of if but, when.

As far as the probability of having another link in the sytem fail first, I wouldn't know. I would suspect that this is purely speculation and that time will tell...

[JettPilot]

when I lived in wisconsin I rode my bike 10 miles each way to work at Trek bicycle company. One morning in early spring, I was coming down a hill and just happened to spot a lone early mosquito flying about 100 feet away. Even with that amount of warning, it still managed to fly into my eye.

It'll happen to somebody.

What an idiotic comparison. A misquito getting into your eye at 15 MPH would hurt like hell, but a misquito hitting the IR sensor at 15 MPH would have no effect, and would definatley NOT block its view to the point that it would not work. It looks like some poeple did not think before they posted....

It would take a huge bug at a fast speed to COMPLETELY block the view of one of those sensors, chances are so small its not even worth this post. If you want to worry about your UAV crashing, there are a hundred other more probable things that can go wrong that you should think about rather than worrying about something as rediculous as this.

JettPilot

[AntonK]

Ok I can put an end to this, If a bug was on the sensor the sensor would still be able to sense a good percentage of the IR it needs to. Doing tests last night the sensors were still measuring a good amount even when covered with a 1 inch thick layer of EPP. The sensors are very sensitive and a bug even if it stuck wouldnt hurt the flight performance much at all

Anton

[mwraight]

Ok I can put an end to this, If a bug was on the sensor the sensor would still be able to sense a good percentage of the IR it needs to. Doing tests last night the sensors were still measuring a good amount even when covered with a 1 inch thick layer of EPP. The sensors are very sensitive and a bug even if it stuck wouldnt hurt the flight performance much at all

Anton

But what if it flew into the SUN??? What would happen then???!!

[Hovertime]

But what if it flew into the SUN??? What would happen then???!!
Well its easy, just need to know your history - it would all melt, wings flap down to Earth ;)

[Unterhausen]

What an idiotic comparison. I've been known to make idiotic comparisons, but if a bug can go where it's most inconvenient, it will. Ever since that incident I've wondered if that bug was aiming. Truth is, I think that it's nearly impossible to imagine a bug messing up a copilot.

[radiohound]

Perhaps this thread should be renamed "What if...."

Area of 1 eyeball (open and not squinting) = about 600 mm^2
If you are lucky enough to have two eyeballs, total area is around 1200 mm^2.

Area of the forward pointing ir sensors = 22 mm^2.

So, basically, your chances of crashing your plane in wind shear is probably greater than the infra red sensor hitting a gnat, mosquito, or other.

[mckaneorg]

Radiohound has a point. What if threads could go on for a very long time. What if you hit a building or a tree. Much more likely! :)

[Hovertime]

LOL, you guys crack me up:)

See the actual question then is this: how would copilot act when bug does smash into it, and guts cover one sensor.... Some testing with foam from post above is related but foam and bug guts may be different as far as filtering goes? you may substitute bug guts with bird poo or what have you, to increase the odds, if you like ;)