Kit suggestions?

[Guz]

I'm looking for suggestions on a 2M thermal kit.

I used to fly/build over 15 years ago. Have done several kits, the Drifter II was always my favorite. Built an incredibly light one that I could speck whenever I wanted. The longest flight I had with it was just shy of an hour (man my neck was sore after that). The plane would just 'float'. Finally taco'd the light wing on a winch, and built a new wing by hand.

I just slowly quit flying and building. Until the other day I thought I would dust off my old Drifter II (only plane left) and an old Futaba 4 channel and get some batteries. Unfortunately I hadn't noticed that the fuslage had been damaged (launch hook basicly ripped out of the bottom), and in the process of trying to find batteries for the TX and RX I found out that my Futaba 4NL is no longer leagal to use (wideband AM TX/RX).

So... here I am! Wanting to get back into the game. I really like the new laser cut kits, they look so nice! And easy to build.

Currently I am looking at "Laser Arts" Jester 2m (http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=174) or Soverign 2M (http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=179). Although, I haven't any experience with V tails. They look interesting.

Any other suggestions??

So, along with a kit. I'm also looking for an inexpensive Radio set, BTW.

[widgetfly]

I just did a survey of similar planes and settled on the Chrysalis MKII from DJAerotech. This kit went together really well, is of high quality, and with the little flying I have been able to do so far, it seems to be a great floater. It is a pretty thin airfoil so the plane flys faster than others but it has a tremendous wing area so it still floats well. It is a "big 2M" because of this large wing area and long fuselage. This takes up to standard radio gear. You might want ot consider the Futaba 6EXAS which comes with 3 micro servos and handles most everything a 2M plane will need. This was what I ended up with and I am pretty pleased so far.

Hopefully this helps.

[Alex J]

www.skybench.com

Get the 2M Lil Bird. Great kit (laser cut, light wood, all hardware included), plus Ray Hayes is a super help.

Regards.

Alex

[shakysticks]

I just bought a Thermic 2.5 from www.arthobby.com. I haven't started building it yet, but from looking at the kit I would say the quality is phenomenal for the price. They have several 2M ships to choose from. If you're looking for something with a little more prefabrication (molded FG fuse and sheeted wings) I would recommend them.

I've heard good things about Skybench, too, and IMHO the Bird of Time type gliders are the best looking sailplanes ever made.

[rdwoebke]

So, along with a kit. I'm also looking for an inexpensive Radio set, BTW.

It would be nice to know what you mean by inexpensive. Radios have never been cheaper. You can get a decent HiTec computer radio for sub $200 now. And if you meant sub $100 by cheap, check out the 3 channel "single stick" sets. HiTec has one for like $80 that is FM. And, great thing is they offer different servo/receiver options in this 3 ch setup.

I'd still suggest a computer radio though. HiTec has a 6 ch computer radio that I think can be had for like $180.

Ryan

[Guz]

Nice suggestions.

As for the plane, I'm not looking for any ARF planes. I REALLY like "make'n sawdust" ;) I am a competent builder and find building a bit more enjoyable than flying (yea, I'm an odd ball). Often wondered when I was younger if I could make a living just building kits for people.

The BoT, has always caught my eye when I first saw it. Always like the scaloped trailing edge design. Rather unique and visually pleasing.

But I'm really looking for a kit that is between $50 and $100. Closer to the 50 dollar mark would be prefered.

As for the radio... Things have REALLY changed since I've last looked. Here I am totally lost. Computer radios don't scare me (computer technician as trade) and look really cool. I'm not sure how many channels I will eventually need. I guess it depends on how enthusiastic I get. I think I'll put off thinking about it till after choose and build the plane. I know for servos is always the general rule was get the smallest you can, with the proper required torque.

I think what I should have asked for in the beginning of the thread was if there is some site or listing that has the most comprehensive list of R/C sailplanes available on the market. Then start asking questions on specific models.

So, does such a list exist? If so, where?

[rdwoebke]

As for the radio... Things have REALLY changed since I've last looked. Here I am totally lost. Computer radios don't scare me (computer technician as trade) and look really cool. I'm not sure how many channels I will eventually need. I guess it depends on how enthusiastic I get. I think I'll put off thinking about it till after choose and build the plane. I know for servos is always the general rule was get the smallest you can, with the proper required torque.



Did you say you wanted RES? Seems that way based on the 2 planes you listed.

Actually, servos have gotten so small (for small electrics) some are not appropriate for a 2 meter. Most radio sets still come with your "standard size" servo that should be fine for a 2 meter like the Crysalis or one of the ones you mentioned.

One benefit to a computer radio is you could do spoiler to elevator mixing. I find in general spoilers tend to make a model's nose rotate down, and having a computer mix allows you mix in up elevator to allow neutral stick to keep the plane level.

Ryan

[marty o]

fatlion.com has a pretty long list of good sailplanes for a range of skill levels -- from simple wood kits to very expensive models. That should give you some ideas.

[georgeg]

I'm looking for suggestions on a 2M thermal kit.

ICurrently I am looking at "Laser Arts" Jester 2m (http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=174) or Soverign 2M (http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=179). Although, I haven't any experience with V tails. They look interesting.

Any other suggestions??




Go with the LaserArts Sovereign. My club has 18 of them. We fly the Sovereign as a one-design contest ship and everyone who has built one is very happy with how it flys. For a 2m, its pretty good and the kit is great too.

[neonbutterfly]

i would recommend the www.polecataero.com windancer....mark drela airfoil....supereb flyer......imho........i have built and currently fly an allegro....which is mark's original design.....what a plane....signals the lightest of lift and can be ballasted for windy conditions.....RES plane with carbon fiber shaft spars.....good luck in your building....

bob :D

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

2 meter Gnome. See eBay,

[mlachow]

Welcome back to soaring.

Sailplanes have changed a lot in the past 15 years. There is no comparison in performance between a Drifter II and something like a Windancer.

Radios have changed a lot too. Take a look at some of the higher end radios to get an idea of the kinds of capabilities that are in the radios today. Things like V-tails are no problem for any of the computer radios available today. It's just a matter of how much capability you want. Still, for $200-250, you can get some very capable radios. For $500, you can get all the sailplane capabilities you will probably ever need to use.

But a thermal is still a thermal...

[bobby legue]

If your looking for a "cheapie to rewet your building skills May I please suggest the Dynaflite daydream. Its got a good airfoil , 3021, flys fast or slow, a lot stronger than than a Gentle Lady. It will take up to full size servos and is simple to build. Best feature-- 37 measly bucks! Got one for my Dad and he is relearning to soar. By the way it is winchable.
Welcome back,
Bob

[Wylie Shaw]

Hi take a look at WWW.LASERARTS.COM at the 2 meter Jester or the 100 incher Secpter (sp), the Majestic is also nice...and if you want to throw em about oogle the Quick Flick II....

WWW.SKYBENCH.COM 100 INCH Big Bird....Lil bird 2 meter, Sky Bird "bigen"

he also has others on his site I'm sure you will remember.....he also has some craft air drifters toooo.....


Happy New Year,

Best Regards,


Wylie S. :D :D :D

[Jose E Bruzual]

guz,

I use to fly the same kind of kits as you did, and yes things have changed, but somethings haven't such as gravity and drag, so light is the operative word, specially at two meters. You want a model which you can build and still enjoy flying.

The best 2M out there is called the Alegro, and laser arts sells the short kit versions, and there is tons of documentation out there so you could have a 2M for a bit more of $50.

Short kit from Laser arts $14
http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_30&products_id=188

The alegro was design by Mark Drela out of MA, he published the plans for free: http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegrolite2m/markdrela_allegrolite2m.htm

There is much information and support on this kit, here and specially in the "alegor group" http://groups.yahoo.com/group/allegro-lite

If I didn't want to bother with a short kit then I would consider the 'Crysalis'
in addition, if you want a good build and good performance and are willing to increase the wing span and budget consider the Majestic 110

http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=175

Things have change and nothing beats weight and airfoil, and those two have improved in a few designs.

Jose

I'm looking for suggestions on a 2M thermal kit.

I used to fly/build over 15 years ago. Have done several kits, the Drifter II was always my favorite. Built an incredibly light one that I could speck whenever I wanted. The longest flight I had with it was just shy of an hour (man my neck was sore after that). The plane would just 'float'. Finally taco'd the light wing on a winch, and built a new wing by hand.

I just slowly quit flying and building. Until the other day I thought I would dust off my old Drifter II (only plane left) and an old Futaba 4 channel and get some batteries. Unfortunately I hadn't noticed that the fuslage had been damaged (launch hook basicly ripped out of the bottom), and in the process of trying to find batteries for the TX and RX I found out that my Futaba 4NL is no longer leagal to use (wideband AM TX/RX).

So... here I am! Wanting to get back into the game. I really like the new laser cut kits, they look so nice! And easy to build.

Currently I am looking at "Laser Arts" Jester 2m (http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=174) or Soverign 2M (http://www.laserarts.com/product_info.php?cPath=25_28&products_id=179). Although, I haven't any experience with V tails. They look interesting.

Any other suggestions??

So, along with a kit. I'm also looking for an inexpensive Radio set, BTW.

[rdwoebke]

The best 2M out there is called the Alegro, and laser arts sells the short kit versions, and there is tons of documentation out there so you could have a 2M for $50 or less.



Jeb,

I am a big fan of the Allegro and am a proud owner/builder of one. But, I don't see how it can be built for "$50 or less". I figure I have a bit over $100 in mine (including covering). I thought about suggesting it when the thread starter asked for suggestions but did not because he said he was in a 50-100 dollar range and this model's construction might be a bit difficult for a return builder. It involves a lot of use of epoxy and some rounding of carbon. And, since it is not a kit it involves a lot of sourcing of parts and you have to really think things out the first time you build one. That said, I really like this plane and if the thread builder say built a Chrysalis or another one of the great 2 meters listed and then got "reintroduced" to building (and flying) and Allegro would make a very fun build after that. I highly recommend the Allegro (or its 3 meter big brother the Bubble Dancer) to anyone.

The biggest cost of the Allegro is the carbon parts. The boom is about $20.00 and the spars and joiner are around $50. I guess the model could be modified to not use the carbon spars (if you do a search you will see a guy that built one with wood spars) and perhaps built with a fully wooden fuselage as opposed to just the wood pod option that Drela lists in the plans (I think Sparky Paul did one this way), but modifying a design is once again probably not the best way to go for a first build after a long layoff from the hobby.

Ryan

P.S., this thread needs pictures. Attached is a shot of my Allegro Lite taken when the plane was nearly complete.

[DCS]

Greetings.

Guz, I'm in the same club as you. I quit flying about 20 years ago. Got back in earlier this year. Holy Cow, have things changed! Good luck finding a kit these days. Yep, there are a few out there but I'm shocked by the proliferation of ARFs. Funny thing, ARFs today are nothing like what they were 20 years ago! Thank goodness SkyBench and LaserArts, along with some other outfits are turing out quality products for those of us who LIKE to build

I'm a balsa-cutter, too. I recently bought a Talon slope glider kit and a laser-cut electric pattern ship. Gotta have some projects for the rainy season! I'm also in the process of converting my 20 year old Gnome HLG to a single-dihedral wing with "flaperons." Oh yeah, check out what's happened to radio equipment, too. Wild!

Speaking of radios. . .I'm looking at three of my old radios from the 80's right now, an old 2-ch. Kraft, a Futaba FP-T4FN and a FP-T4L. Not sure what I'm gonna do with 'em. EBay? The radio I went with is the Hitec Eclipse 7. It's amazing! Gone are the days of having to store, maintain and transport a transmitter for each airplane. I strongly reccomend you purchase the best radio you can afford. The programming features are fantastic and make setting up even a simple R/E glider very easy. Heck, I even programmed a "down elevator" launch preset for the Gnome that keeps it from balloning when handlaunching. Yeah, you can find a good, simple set for less than $100 but I'm really glad I went with more capacity that I can use. I have another sloper that I've set up for flaperons, dual rates and expo. It took me about 30 minutes to set up and I never touched the airplane!

Good luck and welcome back!

Ciao.

[Jose E Bruzual]

Ryan,

sure, it wouldn't be $50 or less as I mod my entry soon after I read it carefully.

As for the building skills of the person asking about the kit, they can probably answer that themselves, I wouldn't want to assume what anyones building skills are. Once they look at the plans and links posted, they will be able to determine whether they should or not go at it by themselves.

Anyone can ask around for the carbon needed to build this plane in this group and others and you should be able to get the materials at a very reasonable price, with out having to hit any of the big composite stores.

Why does this thread need pictures?

Jose

[rdwoebke]

As for the building skills of the person asking about the kit, they can probably answer that themselves, I wouldn't want to assume what anyones building skills are. Once they look at the plans and links posted, they will be able to determine whether they should or not go at it by themselves.


If you want a good overview of the Allegro building process (with pictures) this is a link to James Osborn's Allegro build site.

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegro-lite-construction/AllegroLite_Introduction/

This will give you a good idea what you are up against. I used this extensively when I built my Bubble Dancer and later the Allegro Lite. The build is involved, but I found it very fun. There are quite a few people building them and the yahoo group Jose linked to is a great place to ask questions.


Anyone can ask around for the carbon needed to build this plane in this group and others and you should be able to get the materials at a very reasonable price, with out having to hit any of the big composite stores.


Jose, not sure about this. The Allegro calls for some pretty specific spar material. I don't think you will be able to just "ask around" for it. It uses pre-epoxy impregnated strip spars that are tapered by thickness. If anybody has these just laying around at very reasonable prices, please let me know as most of Drela's designs call for this and I will probably be building a new Drela design each year for the foreseeable future.

Once again, it could be possible to substitute spar materials. I know of at least 2 people that have built Drela designs and replaced the specified ACP or CST spar material with their own laid up spars from tow. That said, probably not for the first time builder that is new to composites. I’m pretty much on a tight budget when it comes to this hobby, but I figured the pre-preg spars were well worth their cost.

The boom is another place you could save some. I think it is possible to lay up your own boom, but I chose to order one from tailboom.com for $18. This way I knew it would be the proper weight and strength. I did not feel I had the skills to lay one up by hand. You could use a cheaper kite spar, but it would not be as flex resistant.

If you ask most Allegro owners what their plane cost them, I am sure most will say they have way more than the $100 I quoted. That is because most have chosen to purchase the Kevlar pod and the carbon “v mount”. I made my own pod from Kevlar cloth using the lay up on the plans (oddly enough, I did get the Kevlar for a song from a guy off the net, $20 for a bag of Kevlar that should make at least 5 pods). I also made my v mount using the optional aluminum home brew method Mark lists in the plans. This saved me about $100.



Why does this thread need pictures?

Jose

Sorry, it was just an expression. Pictures are fun to look at, and I always enjoy seeing other people’s planes so I thought I would drop a picture of my Allegro in.

Ryan

[Jose E Bruzual]

Ryan,

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here, the information I posted referring Guz to the CRRC site and others, is more than enough to help anyone decide, there they will be able to find a the materials needed and in the other groups I am sure you will be the first one to respond with gusto… keep in mind, the designer is not thinking of you when he is making this model, so he as access pretty much any composite configuration he can think of in his lab, some times you can find the same structural integrity via substitution, and I am sure if the person making the decision where to decide to post the question, the designer himself would must likely think of alternatives and offer them to the interested parties.

Again, I think the just of my initial comment was if you want to make the best two meter out there go with the Allegro...

I say you can build it under $100 and your say you build yours over $100... Which is irrelevant since some one else is making the dissuasion, and once they read all the there is to read it will become clear where he can get materials and if he can build or substitute materials.

Otherwise who cares, move on!

[rdwoebke]

Well, I posted the link to James Osborn's picture build because when I was investigating the project, I found it to be the best resource for getting an overall understanding on how to make the plane. The plans and detailed info Mark provides are one thing, but actually seeing it built really helped me understand what was involved. But that was just me.

Actually, I said I built mine for just about $100, so we are not really that far off so far as costs go. But I still think I built mine for just about bottom dollar, unless you are willing to really do a lot of composite work yourself to make the spars and/or the boom. Or unless you are willing to make some pretty big structural concessions such as going with wood spars or an arrow shaft boom.

Sorry for taking this thread on a tangent, but as someone who builds and loves the Allegro, I want to make sure that the information is accurate.

Ryan

[Jose E Bruzual]

There are many people out there who 'love' the Allegro and build them too, and the information that was put forth in this thread was accurate too.

We shouldn't get that emotionally attach to this things... just glue and wood after all.

:-)

[Guz]

About the Allegro, I don't think it's a contender. Since it isn't truely a "Kit" as in one that has the majority parts in a single package. To much hunting around for all the parts. Sorry guys. Building with glass and carbon fiber doesn't scare me at all. Actually nothing in any of the suggested, and unsuggested planes, scare me. I figure if I survived the old die cut days, everything else is a walk in the park :D Especially since I used to hand build electric boats previously (most were just plans only, some were just ideas in my head then put to wood).

"Rip Van Winkel" :cool: YEP! That's me! David, thanks for the suggestions on the radio. You are so right on how much has changed, but are still the same. I'm suprised to see that there are so many ARF kits out there. But am really suprised to see the Gentel Lady kit is still in demand. That plane was popular in my day!

But I think I will get a computer radio. Just incase I really get back into it and can have one radio for all the planes.

But you did bring up an interesting problem, what to do with my old radio and stuff! I've got over a dozen assorted servos, a couple recievers, and the transmitter. All old Futaba "G" connectors. I hate to just throw them away.

I think I have decided to go with the Laser Arts Jester. I sent an note to Brian about some questions, and he promply replied back. I like the idea of spoilers and the Sovereign doesn't (at this time). Sure I could put them in but I just want to follow someone elses plans this time. Also the Jester has a classic tail, just something I more comfortable with. The final reason is that Brian is somewhat starting out, and I like helping the 'new guy' out, and the build documentation that fprintf did, showed how easy the plane is to build.

[Tank52]

Guz,
I dug up this old thread you posted and was wondering if you ever built the Jester 2M? I've been looking at this one as a second 2M following a Gentle Lady that I build about 20 years ago. Did you enjoy the build? How well does it fly?

Tank


I think I have decided to go with the Laser Arts Jester. I sent an note to Brian about some questions, and he promply replied back. I like the idea of spoilers and the Sovereign doesn't (at this time). Sure I could put them in but I just want to follow someone elses plans this time. Also the Jester has a classic tail, just something I more comfortable with. The final reason is that Brian is somewhat starting out, and I like helping the 'new guy' out, and the build documentation that fprintf did, showed how easy the plane is to build.

[schrederman]

Hey Guz,

From one wood butcher to another, the kit market seems to be in a resurgance of a sort. I would recommend you look at Skybench Aerotech, Isthmus Models, Mountain Models/LaserArts... I've seen nothing but good quality from these guys. You'll find the laser cutting will enhance your building talents and accuracy. I'm just finishing a Sky Bird from Skybench. The kit was wonderful, much like the Airtronics kits of old... It's my second build from Ray, and I have nothing but good to say about his operation. Mark Miller at Isthmus Models will be kitting the Houston Hawk soon. Mountain Models is waiting on a fuselage design from me to kit the Yardbird... I'm workin' on it today!

If you get something from any of these 3, you won't be sorry. As to Radios, get the most radio you can afford, because this thing will escalate on you... You'll be flying a moldie or some form of full-function glider before you know it. They just fly sooooo much better than the old stuff, with few exceptions...

Enjoy the Jester and welcome back to R/C Soaring.

Jack Womack

[Tank52]

I found a deal on a 2M Gentle Lady ARF a few months back. Last night I peeled off the rainbow covering to find the expected mediocre build...loose parts, a few ill-fitted, etc. I fixed most of the issues and will try to get it covered and all together over the weekend.

As I patched up the GL I started to think about building again and have pretty much settled on the 2M Lil' Bird from Skybench--unless you guys have any other suggestions. It has some beautiful lines...and it looks like it will be a fun build.

Tank

[slozuke]

A good site to visit to see all the various planes is www.fatlion.com
This site lists and has links to a LOT of different sailplanes. Just be forewarned that it could be dangerous to those with burning pockets!! :D

[Desert flier]

w:rolleyes:

[Desert flier]

I have just completed a bubble dancer ready for test glide today or this week wings build from a short kit laser art and the fuse is a basic build of my own design. Total cost for airframe and motor under $150 :) Auzie dolars and 4 months work in the shed. :rolleyes: I built an Alegro wing last year and put it on a plastic moulded fuse from a mates crashed Green air albatros and am extreamly happy with the results flies like a dream :) with a 600 speed motor. Thats probably why I decided to up size to the bubble dancer. :D :D

[Guz]

Guz,
I dug up this old thread you posted and was wondering if you ever built the Jester 2M? I've been looking at this one as a second 2M following a Gentle Lady that I build about 20 years ago. Did you enjoy the build? How well does it fly?

Tank
Sorry but I lost track of this thread... but YEPPERS!!! I did finish the plane.

Pictures here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5381115&postcount=80

As for building it. It was a walk in the park for me. Very, very enjoyable.

If flies great! I enjoy throwing it on the hi-start and putt'n around on it. The electric guys at the field think I'm nutz and keep saying I should put a motor on it. But that's the next project.

The Jester is a bit on the heavy side to be a floater. But it penetrates very well with all the lead I had to put in the nose to balance it out.

I would recommend anyone who likes building to get one and enjoy!