How to HOVER?!

[Peter W]

hi all,
i will be getting my e3d soon and can't wait.....i'm getting bored having flown my twinstar for a year!
and one of the first monoevures i am looking forward to do is a good solid hover for maybe 5-7 secs ( not straight away!)
i see rudder being used alot, and always to the right, is that to counter act torque? and then i guess you balance the plane using elevator and aileron?

Thanks,

Peter:)

[rcav8r2]

Well actually you use all 4 controls. Set up is VERY important. With my Morris Knife I am using a 12.25x3.75 prop, and can hover at 1/2 throttle. Any more is straight up. The engine is only a .45, so it is not over powered. The "normal" prop for the engine I am using is a 10x6, so prop selection is also very important. Not sure what to use on the E3D, but I'm sure someone will.

As far as the hover, just practice, practice, practice. Basically you control yaw with the rudder( when the plane leans over) , counter tourque with ailerons ( unless you want to do a torque roll), and pitch with elevator. On a calm day, once my knife is set in a good hover, it will hold it hands off for quite some time. Once again setup for the manover is just as important, if not more, than the manover when learning. After you are used it it, you can start a hover out of a snap or knife edge into it., but when learning just concentrate on getting a good straight set up. With the smaller planes, when you get a good hover going ( no up or down movement) you can hear the prop slipping. Very neat.

CG is also somewhat important. Mine is ballanced right in the middle of the recomended CG range, but I really don't notice a difference between a full tank, and a nearly empty one, so it can't be that critical.

Good luck

[Peter W]

thanks for the info, guess i was wrong about the rudder!
hovering ain't such a black art then, just needs practising......

Peter:)

[Peter W]

what's meant by 'prop slipping'?
and what's cavitating? by the sounds of it it's when the prop turns very fast without enough pitch and the air can't get 'in' quick enough and thus a loss of power?

Pete:)

[rcav8r2]

Originally posted by Peter W
what's meant by 'prop slipping'?
and what's cavitating? by the sounds of it it's when the prop turns very fast without enough pitch and the air can't get 'in' quick enough and thus a loss of power?

Pete:)

Prop slipping is just what you think it is.... The prop slips. Not sure what this does for efficiency, and all that stuff, but the Knife will just hang there with the prop "buzzing". Even if the efficincty is down, it doesn't much matter as I'm only around 1/2 throttle art this point. It is even louder when I let the plane slip backwards, but the plane usually falls off before it really gets going...

I have a Kadet that spins a 14x6 prop that really does this quite loud sometimes. The Kadet won't hover, but I'll set up for one, and let it fall backwards. The pitch here is quite a bit more than on the knife and it actually makes the sound much louder. Then again it is a 14" prop and the Knife is 12"...?

I have also heard the same noise when doing a lomchevek (SP?)and other tumbliing manovers.

[JamesFreeman]

Do you mean prop hanging, with the plane verical or hovering, with the plane horizontal in the wind?

[rcav8r2]

I belive the thread was pertaining to hanging on the prop....
The bigger they are, the easier it is.
I took this today ( 6/28/02) at the field.

[crossup]

Yes, practice a LOT!
Gary Wright, the designer of the E3D says its harder to have full control during any(all) orientation hover than to fly something like a rolling circle , backwards in a helicopter!@ Not his exact words but something to that effect. In short its merely difficult to hover , top side to ya..
but once she is actually rotating in a torque roll..... VERY tough
crossup

[rcav8r2]

Originally posted by crossup
Yes, practice a LOT!
....<snip> In short its merely difficult to hover , top side to ya..
but once she is actually rotating in a torque roll..... VERY tough
crossup

Actually I find hovering top side in almost effertless ( after much practice of course :D ) and have it almost down when looking at the side (both), BUT I am having a heck of a time with it belly in. I can fly a heli, and some equate it to nose in hovering. I have no problems with nose in on a heli, but belly in on a fixed wing plane is a different story. :)

The guy in the above photo I posted actually would blip the throttle to get it to torque roll rather quickly. He would inch it down to where the tail was almost touching, and the started to blip the throttle to get it to torque roll as it was drifting down the runway with the slight breeze we had. Then agian his engine puts out a little more than 50# of thrust and the plane weighs a bit less than 19#. Greater than 2:1 :)

[MATHewmoua]

what if you add weight to the tail, will it be easier to hover it too? i didn't try that hard yet but, i flown my typhoon2 and min 300 extra, i think i still missing alot of thing as far as rudder seting and the rest of the stuff. but i know is coming. I feel like for most of these hovering is pretty much like learning how to ride a bicylce once you get it then its over. but it just a matter of practice and time. thanks tho.

[rcav8r2]

WOW this is an old thread... :) Since my last posts I progressed well past having problems hovering belly in.. now It's no problem at all. One day it just clicked.
Anyway I have since switched to electric only since the last posts, and had an E3D. WAY easier to hover than any glow powered model I ever had. I guess the extra power, and slower spinning ( but larger prop disk) prop really helps. FWIW, I never had an electric prop "slip" like my glow ones did. I do miss that sound ;)

What REALLY helped me learning to hover was getting a Fancy Foam Edge. I learned to get really comfortable in a hover with that plane as I would practice right on the deck and see what the plane was doing in anticipation of a correction. With it that close to the ground I would simply chop the throttle and let it plop down in the high grass. As it is foam, no damage done. And yes, like riding a bike, it just clicks, and you will soon wonder what was so hard about it.
As far as rearward CG, yes I found this really helps...to a point. W/ my E3D I gradually moved the CG back ( by shifting the battery) until it got really pitch sensitive in "normal" flight. Then I went one "click" forward. Each time I moved the CG back, the hover got easier. My Fancy Foam (the one in the avatar) will hover with great ease, and the CG is about 1/2 back from the recommended. If the plane wasn't so old and sloppy, it would probably hover hands off. Even on really low rates it is still pitch sensitive in "normal" flight, but not overly so.

[my c210]

jeez, how did yall dig up this oldie? its 7 yrs old.

[va6wgo]

Try practicing harriers and elevators, once a harrier is under complete control the transition to a hover will come quite easy, mastering the proper use of the throttle makes life easier when it comes about hovering. Make sure that you have enough power to pull out and add some expo in the rudder, there is going to be a tendency to over control this surface.

Rudder control is a must, the rudder control is usually the weakest point in most pilots. Practice non-3D maneuvers where rudder is required.


After that, it is matter of a light wind loaded aircraft, big throws and a good power to weight ratio and then just practice, practice, practice.

Cheers,

Will