Slowstick Build Advice [Archive]

Mars Flyer

Dec 18, 2005, 04:28 PM

Jason,

I listed some of the mods I made on my Slow Stick at the following post on our old thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4604732&postcount=1120

I was responding to Jim's query and he is planning to use brushless - hence the comments about that. I started with the stock 300 motor and switched to a GWS 400 which I like a lot. The good thing about the 300 is that it is happy with your 6 or 7 cell Aerobird packs. The 400 will fly OK with the 7 cell but is way more fun with an 8 cell pack.

Frank (Moonbeam 6) came up with the tundra tires. He cut them from a swim noodle.

I'm approaching 2 years with my Slow Stick and still love to fly it.

Rob

GLIDERGIDER

Dec 18, 2005, 05:38 PM

Jason,
I think everyone has reinforced the front and rear wing rod joiners. I added a popcicle stick over the joiner. I taped it to the leading edge with packing tape. In my case, the wing joiner broke in two. Once I put the popcicle stick over it, no more problems.

Thats a must do modification.

Otherwise, this plane flys great, right out of the box.

I flew my blip camera with just a 7 cell nimh battery and stock motor and it did pretty good. Recently, I had less successful results with that same setup. So for camera work, I'd get a brushless and lipo 3 cell. Launch, stand on the tail, and go straight up to camera altitude. I can't say what brushless model though, sorry.
Dave

Moonbeam Six

Dec 19, 2005, 08:28 AM

Jason,

Rob did a pretty comprehensive job describing mods. Many are a matter of personal choice, however. For example, I tend toward making things the least permanent as I can (because eventually I need to undo or redo it). I used strapping tape to hold my gearbox onto the fuselage, at least while you are learning to fly the bird. You might want to consider a CF arrow shaft in the fuselage. It can be held in place by friction of a few wraps of tape on the front end. That way, you can remove it or recycle it to a new SS if/when you need to. Definately use brass tubing for the center section reinforcements. Bend with a spring tubing bender to avoid kinks. Regarding the motor, I'd strongly recommend you start out with a 300-C. Later, you can upgrade to a 350 or 400 size, if you like. Some of us have had to replace gearboxes and motors from less graceful flight terminations. You will likely get to make a choice of motors from time to time. Use bamboo skewers epoxied in as diagonal braces between stab and vertical fin (regardless how they are attached to the fuselage) BEFORE you have to repair a broken tail feather. Be careful during wing assembly that you don't get a warp in it. Having both wings flying at the same angle of attack is a good thing.

A Slow Stick will fly great made per plans. These mods are to make it last longer and endure more use and abuse. Flying is good; repairing is bad.

Keep your control throws somewhat limited, especially the elevator. You are going to have to tame down your control stick technique from the Aerobird. Too much control is a bad thing, especially early on. CG location is critical. Have it toward the forward end of the range for initial flights. Check CG location often. Different batteries and abrupt stops may cause CG changes.

Buy extra props.

Maiden the new SS in calm conditions in an area where you have plenty of room. During turns, the nose will want to drop. A little back stick will keep it up and turning nicely. This was the biggest difference I recall from transitioning from the Aerobird, aside from the considerable more control authority I had. If possible, have a more experienced pilot by your side to help, if needed. Before I flew mine under power, I made lots of hand-launched glides to landing, just to get the hang of how it glided and what it took to flare for landing. It is good practice for you, it confirms control motion, sensitivity, and aircraft response.

The next time I go to the shop, I'll cut another another couple of slices off the 4" swim noodle for you for tundra tires. You will like them.

The Slow Stick is a good choice. You will have a ball with it.

Good luck!

Frank

dee-grose

Dec 19, 2005, 10:14 AM

I'll add a comment about flying the SS...but don't let this confuse you.

I've noticed that when I'm trying to do really tight turns, once I'm banked up, I find that I actually need a little opposite rudder to hold it in the turn. That's in addition to the back stick. Might sound a little confusing, but that's what I've noticed.

The SS is probably the funnest plane you'll ever have...trust me.

Andy

Ultralight

Dec 20, 2005, 11:25 AM

Yet another question. Is it worth it to get the Deans Ultra connectors?

Jason

dee-grose

Dec 20, 2005, 11:37 AM

If you want to go ahead and standardize on all your connectors, yes, go with Deans Ultras. They are sorta overkill for SS-size battery packs as you won't ever go above 8-9 amps with a stock motor. You really want Deans Ultra when current-draw goes up more than that. Make sense?

Moonbeam Six

Dec 20, 2005, 08:40 PM

Deans are popular with a lot of folk, but I still fly with JST connectors. I've only had one problem with those, and it wasn't the fault of the connector. A wire up close to the connector began to fail from too much flexing. It overheated and burned in two. Like Gary said, as long as you aren't pushing more amps through the connectors, you don't "need" to change to Deans, but it is an option.

Frank

Mars Flyer

Dec 20, 2005, 10:16 PM

Yet another question. Is it worth it to get the Deans Ultra connectors?

Jason

You can save yourself some trouble later if you standardize to one kind of connector and the Deans will work for anything. I use mostly Deans but a few JSTs on my smaller planes and I'm always swapping adapters on the chargers to deal with both.

Rob

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 22, 2005, 08:53 PM

I'm waffeling a little on what battery to try first on my SS.

I decided to hold the brushless, B/L ESC, and 3S LiPo in safe storage for a pilot with a little more experience. :)

So I have the smaller stock GWS SS motor/gearbox and several different batteries to choose from. I just bought a new inexpensive GWS ICS-480 brush-type ESC today from Rick at R/C Hobbies. He said it would work up to 7-cell NiMh, but not a 3S LiPo, which would have been too much voltage for the stock motor anyway.

He suggested I use my 6- and 7-cell 900 Mah NiMh packs from my Commander IIs. The 6-cell weighs 4.5 oz, and the 7-cell weighs 5.2 oz.

For Reference, the GWS 6-cell 7.2V 270 Mah NiCd with JST connector weighs 2.6 oz.

So the Commander II packs would be 1.9 to 2.6 oz heavier than the "stock" GWS battery, which I happen to have one of, but with a JST connector.

Would this additional weight make much difference in low speed and performance, or on a SS is the weight not really that critical?

900 MaH vs 270 MaH should make a huge difference in run time, lessened a little (or a lot?) by the added weight.

I'm setting it up so the battery is right below the CG. That way any battery I can manage to hang right there won't affect the CG. But getting the various connectors standardized or making up adapters for each would be somewhat a pain. So it's tempting to just set it up for the (2) 6-cell and (1) 7-cell NiMh packs I have. 3 Packs ought to be plenty with a field fast-charger!

I've looked at the SS battery support brackets and I am not thrilled with them. Very little flat surface there and the tiny round-holed places for rubber bands or whatever. Thinking of making some sort of bent wire hanger to go out, down, and under the batteries to hold them securely. Perhaps with some velcro to hold the wires/batteries securely in place. But that would certainly add weight, on top of a heavy battery pack. Suggestions on hanging a relatively heavy battery from a SS? I sure like the simplicity of a really light LiPo with velcro to the flat surface and a velcro strap around it for insurance. Saw a video of a plane where the LiPo flew off in flight, and that was not pretty!

Thanks so much in advance! I know we have a lot of local SS experience, not to mention anyone elsewhere who might happen to be listening.

Mars Flyer

Dec 22, 2005, 09:16 PM

Jim,

I used the 6 and 7 cell 900 mAh Firebird batteries with my SS 300 for over a year and either will fly well. The 7 cell has some more oomph and climbs better, as you would expect. I strap my batteries to the stock battery bracket with 2 crisscrossed rubber bands and a velcro strap around the whole thing for insurance. I've never had any shifting with that arrangement. I looped the rubber bands through the holes of the battery holder tabs on one side so the bands would be captive. Then I just loop the other end over the tab, wrap the velcro around, and fly.

I agree that you should save the Lipos for later. The extra weight of the NiMH comes in handy in a breeze and you probably won't notice the slight extra airspeed. They are way more rugged than the Lipos too.

BTW, Frank built a nice metal bracket thingy and can change batts with one hand.

Rob

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 22, 2005, 09:53 PM

Jim,

I used the 6 and 7 cell 900 mAh Firebird batteries with my SS 300 for over a year and either will fly well......

....BTW, Frank built a nice metal bracket thingy and can change batts with one hand.

Rob
Rob - Thanks so much! They just seemed sooooo heavy to me. Glad to know that's not a particular problem and it worked well for you.

I look forward to learning Frank's trick when possible. But in the meantime I can come up with something with rubber bands and velcro. When I looked again at the shrink wrap around the battery packs, I got a little worried that with something metal, especially something that was tight and slid off and on, I might short out the pack and make a real mess! :o

ChromeDome

Dec 22, 2005, 10:44 PM

I'm waffeling a little on what battery to try first on my SS.

I decided to hold the brushless, B/L ESC, and 3S LiPo in safe storage for a pilot with a little more experience. :)

So I have the smaller stock GWS SS motor/gearbox and several different batteries to choose from. I just bought a new inexpensive GWS ICS-480 brush-type ESC today from Rick at R/C Hobbies. He said it would work up to 7-cell NiMh, but not a 3S LiPo, which would have been too much voltage for the stock motor anyway.

He suggested I use my 6- and 7-cell 900 Mah NiMh packs from my Commander IIs. The 6-cell weighs 4.5 oz, and the 7-cell weighs 5.2 oz.

For Reference, the GWS 6-cell 7.2V 270 Mah NiCd with JST connector weighs 2.6 oz.

So the Commander II packs would be 1.9 to 2.6 oz heavier than the "stock" GWS battery, which I happen to have one of, but with a JST connector.

Would this additional weight make much difference in low speed and performance, or on a SS is the weight not really that critical?

900 MaH vs 270 MaH should make a huge difference in run time, lessened a little (or a lot?) by the added weight.

I'm setting it up so the battery is right below the............................e the simplicity of a really light LiPo with velcro to the flat surface and a velcro strap around it for insurance. Saw a video of a plane where the LiPo flew off in flight, and that was not pretty!

Thanks so much in advance! I know we have a lot of local SS experience, not to mention anyone elsewhere who might happen to be listening.

Jim, I believe you shoud go to LiPos as soon as you can. The extra power to weight that you will get makes a definite difference in the ease of flying. There will be power to pull out of trouble with the Lipos. I started out flying with the 6-cell GWS nicads and did not like them very well. I went to NiMh as soon as I could but was not in love with them either. What really made the airplane come alive was a 2s Kokam 1020 pack. I was an early adopter and loved it from the beginning. This was in the Cub with an IPS-A motor. Lots of power and a 45 minute flight time. Also the airplane suddenly became very rugged with the much reduced weight. As I'm sure you know, kinetic energy is mass times velocity squared. With LiPos the mass is down and velocity is also down because it flies slower. So less energy to dissipate upon a hard landing. The LiPos themselves have been plenty tough for me. I still have the original Kokam pack though it is pretty tired and was only a 2C capability when new. Frank's Escapade probably flew much better than expected because of the LiPos. You will like them also.

Regarding mounting, I really like a velcro strap. Attached is a photo of an eTec 1200 LiPo and camera under my SS with the standard rubber bands mount and an extra velcro strap. Works well.

dee-grose

Dec 22, 2005, 11:08 PM

I'll chime in with my SS battery preferences. I use 7-cell 750mA packs from www.cheapbatterypacks.com. I've got two and one more 650mA packs. Those packs are cheap ($14 or so) and powerful. I also can get about 20 mins or more depending on throttle usage. That's on my stock 300 motor.

I haven't gone lipoly on the SS because I already have good packs and I didn't want to invest in another lipoly-friendly ESC for it. That may change in the future, but that is what works for me now.

Oh, and they're a perfect fit for the SS battery tray. Rubber bands work great.

Andy

ghee-grose

Dec 22, 2005, 11:17 PM

Remember when you're making your battery mount, don't make it too dificult to swap out packs.

Moonbeam Six

Dec 23, 2005, 12:30 AM

Jim,

Your primary objective for the first few days of flying your Slow Stick is to successfully learn to fly it. My experience is that few planes fly really well on their maiden flights. It takes some tweaking to get the CG, control responses, and trims set to where an inherently stable bird, like a Slow Stick, will not be demanding to fly, and will respond to control the way you like it. I believe your experience is mostly with the 2-channel Firebird. The Slow Stick is a far different plane from the Firebird, so you will be learning to fly a more maneuverable plane and one with pitch control. Even with a 300-C motor and a 6-cell NiMH or NiCd pack, it will have plenty of power for you during your initial flights. Too much power just lets you get into trouble more quickly. What ChromeDome said regarding kinetic energy is right, but I would suggest the safer type batteries, even though a little heavier, for your initial flights. Once you and the Slow Stick get used to each other, your options are wide open. It will not complain about a 7-cell NiMH pack at all. Most of us didn't have all those options for our first one. I used the 6 and 7-cell Aerobird packs for a long time. Yes, I made a short patch cord with JST to MT connectors so I could use the AB packs (and AB charger) without modification. I got in a lot of flight hours with that simple arrangement.

My make-shift battery bracket (actually still a prototype) was required because one of the tabs on the plastic battery holder broke off early on. I was going to bend and solder a new one of welding rod, and figured I'd try to make it a little easier to change the battery. But before bending and soldering the rod, I used a couple of large paper clips to get the bends right and make a pattern for bending the rod. I held them in place with strapping tape, attached a battery with rubber bands, and flew it. The paper clip prototype worked so well, I just haven't gotten around to making the real thing yet. I've attached a picture taken some time ago, that will let you see what it looks like. It isn't fancy at all, just paper clips and tape. The advantages is that the wires extend down along the battery pack, and the rubber band can easily be hooked over the hooks, and the battery is held tightly in place. I'll make a nice one following this design for my next Slow Stick.

When you get it ready to fly, choose calm conditions, and get an experienced flyer to help you. Gary was my instructor, and he was there to take my transmitter several times and saved my plane. I'm not sure my Slow Stick would have survived my awkwardness without him.

ChromeDome

Dec 23, 2005, 01:06 AM

Jason, I think everyone .........................

I flew my blip camera with just a 7 cell nimh battery and stock motor and it did pretty good. Recently, I had less successful results with that same setup. So for camera work, I'd get a brushless and lipo 3 cell. Launch, stand on the tail, and go straight up to camera altitude. I can't say what brushless model though, sorry.
Dave
Dave, I started flying a GWS 300 on a SS in winter for AP. When warm weather arrived, the plane had much less power. I believe it was the lower density atmosphere. I got some brake cleaner spray at the auto parts store and flushed the carbon out of the motor and also retimed it. That made a nice improvement. You can see how far and what direction I turned it on the attachment by looking at where the capacitors were soldered. There is a lot of info on this in another forum. If you are still running a brushed 300, this will make a nice improvement in performance.

dee-grose

Dec 23, 2005, 01:12 AM

I might be showing my ignorance here, but isn't a re-timed 300 essentially the same as a 350? I thought I read that a long time ago. I'm no motor expert though! Somebody enlighten me...

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 23, 2005, 08:57 AM

Thanks so much for sharing all the good pros and cons and your experiences on battery selection. And for your great photos. I read them all through several times, and after feeling strongly buffeted both ways, I've decided to go with the 6- & 7- cell 900 Mah NiMh batteries I have. With the wind around here I probably need the weight. And realistically 3 packs should be enough! :)

The SS battery brackets don't fit these batteries. I've sketched up a 3/16 plywood or basswood plate and (2) 3/8 square balsa pieces to glue together and mount to the top of each candidate pack with double-faced and strapping tape so it will "engage" in the two SS battery mounts and also the sides of the aluminum stick. The battery will be held up and in by rubber bands, and probably a Velcro strap. Or I may be able to get by with just the Velcro if I use 2 straps attached to the battery brackets. That would seem to be much faster to remove/install that rubber bands on those tiny hooks. Time will tell.

The battery location will be set by the plywood, ensuring the desired CG. The design can be shortened/lengthened and/or widened, if necessary for any size or shape pack I may have or get.

For the moment I'll stick with the Firebird connectors, since the ESC I bought has that connector, as do 3 of my packs. Any other packs I should want to use on the SS, I'll either have to make an adapter, or splice on the necessary connector.

Eventually I think I want to standardize on the Deans Ultra, but not sure right now is the time. Actually I may have just defacto standardized on the Firebird connector.

Too bad the wind the next two days does not look promising. The SS fuselage with stuff stuck on it temporarily with scotch tape is sitting on my desk. With the ceiling fan going, it seems to be wagging its tail like a dog enthusiastic to go out and play!

Moonbeam Six

Dec 23, 2005, 10:41 AM

Jim,

When you shake the tree, don't be surprised when apples come falling down all over the place. So it is with questions posed on this forum. What you got reflects the individuality, personal preference, experience, and opinions of those that responded. I guess we aren't called "Renegades" for nothing! Really, it is just a matter of personal preference. As long as it works, it can't be wrong.

A Slow Stick will fly great with a stock build and motor type, and with any 7.4 volt battery you want to use. What you have available, your budget, and what is easiest and quickest to get going has a lot to do with how you configure it. Choosing LiPo means not only more expensive batteries, but also a more expensive LiPo-capable charger. You will eventually go to LiPo's, but neither you nor anyone else considering battery options should feel pressure to do it because "everybody else is doing it." I flew for a year and a half on NiMH before getting LiPo. My first LiPo and charger were Christmas presents, so someone else made the plunge for me. (Thanks, Andy.)

I like my planes slow, stable, and simple. I want my flying to be relaxing. I try to take care of a good-flying plane, and fly it for lots of hours. If it isn't broke, I don't "fix" it. I try to maximize the "grins per dollar" and "grins per workbench hour" factors with each of my planes. You can be bombarded with too many choices early on. Build it simple, learn to fly it, and learn that aircraft's personality, then you will have a standard against which you can consider modifications and upgrades, and for judging their effectiveness. For example, I made some vortex generators and put them on my Slow Stick. Since I was familiar with how it flew, I quickly determined that something wasn't right, and its performace was degraded a little. I abandoned the idea.

Sorry you were unable to make it to the chilly morning flying session yesterday. I had a little Christmas present for you.

Awaiting a flight report.

Frank

ghee-grose

Dec 23, 2005, 10:50 AM

With Dad mentioning the "grins per workbench hour", I thought I'd say that i built both my slow sticks in 2 hours. I flew my first SS for over 2 years before upgrading to a new one. The old one still would fly, but it's pretty beat up. I've flown that thing through more dares than you could imagine!

atjurhs

Dec 23, 2005, 11:17 AM

Perhaps the adage of, "Your best flying plane will always be the one you have the most flight hours on" comes into play here somewhere.

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 23, 2005, 01:23 PM

Well, after I drove all the way over to Rick's to get the plywood, balsa, strapping tape, servo-mount tape, titebond, left-handed fluted-wrench and such for my fabulous R. Goldberg battery attachment scheme, Rick talked me out of it. He said to just jam the battery brackets into the heat shrink over the battery pack. Said if I did not like the SS battery brackets tabs, then to just cut them off to have a flat surface, and just use some big ugly rubber bands to attach whatever battery I wanted to fly that time. He knows how to cut to the chase, even if it means selling less "stuff" today!

I did buy some connectors to make up a JST to that Hobbyzone square and round plugs molex-like connector and a little soldering iron to do the deed with. That will give me a lot of different battery packs to choose from. And I got some strapping tape and some other stuff I did not need today, but will some day. Good to have in the toolbox for when it's needed. If I can carry it, that is!

By the way, they have some good cookies there today (but no milk). Not sure why (Christmas??), but I enjoyed them nonetheless.

And they have a little Renegades on rcgroups.com thing printed out and on display right at the main register. Rick was quite complimentary of this active local group. I'll Bet!

The one thing they need to add is a bell by the front door to ring when they take something outside to fly it. I got to see one of the new helicopters fly outside today. Would you believe the body was styrofoam?

Moonbeam Six

Dec 23, 2005, 01:55 PM

Jim,

Rick gave you some good advice. "Keep it simple" seems to be our common message.

I was working on a homebuilt experimental aircraft project in a local EAA chapter some years ago. When we'd be trying to over-work some task, the project leader (who had lots of experience build these full-scale model planes) would remind us. "You aren't building a piano." or "Hammer to fit and paint to match." I've recalled those words on numerous occasions and with numerous applications since.

Frank

ChromeDome

Dec 23, 2005, 03:19 PM

I might be showing my ignorance here, but isn't a re-timed 300 essentially the same as a 350? I thought I read that a long time ago. I'm no motor expert though! Somebody enlighten me...

Wish I knew Gary. When retiming a motor the backplate is turned through a region of lower current draw and set at the original current draw on the other side. This is done at no load and low voltage, so I don't know how it applies at load. More power at the same current should mean more efficiency. So a retimed 300 might be the same power as a 350 and more efficient. I bet someone has measured this. Like I said, I wish I knew. I washed out the brush dust with brake cleaner at the same time so that probably helped also.

Fyrwalker

Dec 24, 2005, 04:53 PM

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 24, 2005, 05:01 PM

Merry Christmas to all,

here's some mod's i did to Slow Stick IV,
got the idea's from Gary and Frank, i used cf rods from a shock flyer to make tail feather struts, and for the batt. mount all i did was take some balsa and some non-slip jar opener(wal-mart has it) material and a velcro wrap for mine it works great. here'some pic's.(batt. pack i got from rick are 9.6v 600mah.)
Thanks for sharing these mods.

I had something similar, but much more complicated, in mind for my SS battery mount. At the moment I'm thinking that some 3/16 or 1/4 balsa wood plus some servo-mount tape to hold it to the top of the battery would be real light, provide positive alignment, and probably work real well for quick battery changes. And it will cushion the battery in a crash. Of course I'd need to cut out a piece of balsa for each battery, where yours is just one balsa & one jar opener fits all! You have a single center strap. I am thinking about two straps, one at each end. But as you indicate, one strap is probably all that is really needed.

I did not catch what motor you are using. Think I remember hearing that the 8-cell would be too much for either stock motor, but I may remember that wrong. Edit - Yep, apparently I heard it wrong about the 400 motor.

ghee-grose

Dec 24, 2005, 05:01 PM

And they have a little Renegades on rcgroups.com thing printed out and on display right at the main register. Rick was quite complimentary of this active local group. I'll Bet!

Yeah, I printed out that flyer and had Rick post it during his Grand Opening sale a few weeks ago. I hope it stirs up some interest and some new members. I wouldn't mind to keep growing and growing in number. :D

Fyrwalker

Dec 24, 2005, 06:35 PM

rocket, my SS is a 400 version, it really come alive with a 9.6v batt.

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 24, 2005, 11:57 PM

rocket, my SS is a 400 version, it really come alive with a 9.6v batt.

That's good to know.

I wish there was some central place like the wikipedia encyclopendia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page where all these bits and pieces of knowledge could be compiled and organized without all the chit chat. I just use them as an example. I doubt they would appreciate it it we started filling up their encyclopedia with tables of GWS-specific SS gear ratios, applicable props for specific gears and motors and battery voltages, etc. I really appreciate R/C Groups, but the chit-chat gets tiresome when I'm searching for a tid-bit of real technical information. Of course **I** never ever chit-chat! :)

dee-grose

Dec 25, 2005, 12:02 AM

Jim, we could get Gary to sticky us a "setups that work" thread, but there are already several like that out there on RCGroups. Don't worry, all this magic will start to make sense pretty soon ;)

Andy

brn-grose

Dec 25, 2005, 01:32 AM

Hey Rocket, build your SS stock and get some stick time and you will be really pleased at how gentle it will fly. My SS was stock for approx one year until i put a brushless setup w/lipoly. The SS design is amazing. due to its light weight and wingloading it can take a lot of bumps, bruises and an occassional pole strike....just have a few spare props.

Brian

Mars Flyer

Dec 25, 2005, 01:50 AM

Jim,

The great thing about the Slow Stick is that it isn't particular about how it is setup. It just wants to fly. There are as many different setups are there are SS pilots. Build it stock, use the batteries you have, and enjoy. The minor mods recommended here might make it a bit more rugged but they won't make it fly any better or worse. You can tinker and change different variables later. There is generally little reason to radically change any plane's stock setup. They are generally designed to fly as they are delivered. Some manufacturers, especially GWS, usually recommend a battery which has insufficient voltage, but most are pretty close.

Uh oh, Santa is on final. Gotta go.

Rob

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 25, 2005, 05:00 PM

In the wee hours while even the mice were sleeping, I did more troubleshooting on the GWS radio.

It started out glitching just like the other day. I took the transmitter back off, screwed the antenna in and made sure it was tight (it had been removed for shipping), and reseated the Tx crystal. Then the rudder and elevator servos were solid and the range, well, I did not go outside to try to measure it, but I could go anywhere inside the house I wanted to and it still worked! :)

Hooked up the new ESC to the motor leads, but no joy there. :confused: Guess I need to try another ESC or possibly plug the ESC into another channel to see.. Fortunately I have another ESC on hand I can try.

Mars Flyer

Dec 25, 2005, 06:25 PM

Jim,

Sounds like you fixed the xmtr problem. Now for the ESC. It should be in channel 3. I'm not sure about your ESC but you may need to arm it. Turn on the xmtr, make sure the throttle stick is all the way off (down), hook up the battery to the ESC thereby powering the airplane circuitry, advance the throttle all the way up (keeping your extremities out of reach of the prop and holding the plane down - just in case), then drop the throttle back to off. That may arm the ESC.

Rob

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 26, 2005, 07:26 AM

Jim,
Sounds like you fixed the xmtr problem. Now for the ESC. It should be in channel 3......
Rob
Short version: My ESC/motor works now, but not on Ch 3, but on Ch 1, and with the connector plugged in upside down!.

Longer version:

Thanks, Rob, for pointing that out. Unfortunately perhaps it's not quite as simple as you suggest.

In the colorful slick magazine-like SS instructions I got, on page 8 under Radio Gear Installation Wiring and Connection, it says:

(GWS/JR/Sanwa) Radio System
Ch 1 Throttle (ESC)
Ch 2 Aileron
Ch 4 Elevator
Ch 4 Rudder

(Futaba/Hitec) Radio System
Ch 1 Aileron
Ch 2 Elevator
Ch 3 Throttle (ESC)
Ch 4 Rudder

I'm guessing you have a Futaba or Hitec Radio. Mine is GWS.

So in my case Ch 1 is the right answer, and I had ESC in 4 earlier! Go figure!

An aside - Now why does my rudder work so well plugged in where the Aileron is supposed to go??? And I don't even have an aileron to plug in where the rudder really goes. Perhaps an investigation for another day! Say "roll", not elevator or rudder :rolleyes:

The brand new GWS ESC I bought Rx connector looks upside down and is tough to plug in right next to the Ch 2 servo connector which is also from GWS. It did not work the way that looks right, with all 3 connectors' slots pointing the same way (fortunately either the capacitor did not blow out BANG, or else someone else did that for me earlier) but it does work right the way that has 2 servo connectors slots pointing one way and the ESC connector slot pointing the other way. The wires colors and thereby color-coding is totally different too, and it does not match the instruction card from the ESC, but I guess whatever works works.

Guess I'll put some red finger nail polish or similar on the one side of all 3 servo connectors so I can tell by that which way they really go in rather than looking for physical similarities, much less wire color codes! :rolleyes:

Thanks for the "clue" that led to a small step for man, a giant leap for SS!

ChromeDome

Dec 26, 2005, 06:01 PM

Short version: My ESC/motor works now, but not on Ch 3, but on Ch 1, and with the connector plugged in upside down!.

Longer version:

Thanks, Rob, for pointing that out. Unfortunately perhaps it's not quite as simple as you suggest.

In the colorful slick magazine-like SS instructions I got, on page 8 under Radio Gear Installation Wiring and Connection, it says:

(GWS/JR/Sanwa) Radio System
Ch 1 Throttle (ESC)
Ch 2 Aileron
Ch 4 Elevator
Ch 4 Rudder

(Futaba/Hitec) Radio System
Ch 1 Aileron
Ch 2 Elevator
Ch 3 Throttle (ESC)
Ch 4 Rudder

I'm guessing you have a Futaba or Hitec Radio. Mine is GWS.

So in my case Ch 1 is the right answer, and I had ESC in 4 earlier! Go figure!

An aside - Now why does my rudder work so well plugged in where the Aileron is supposed to go??? And I don't even have an aileron to plug in where the rudder really goes. Perhaps an investigation for another day! Say "roll", not elevator or rudder :rolleyes:

The brand new GWS ESC I bought Rx connector looks upside down and is tough to plug in right next to the Ch 2 servo connector which is also from GWS. It did not work the way that looks right, with all 3 connectors' slots pointing the same way (fortunately either the capacitor did not blow out BANG, or else someone else did that for me earlier) but it does work right the way that has 2 servo connectors slots pointing one way and the ESC connector slot pointing the other way. The wires colors and thereby color-coding is totally different too, and it does not match the instruction card from the ESC, but I guess whatever works works.

Guess I'll put some red finger nail polish or similar on the one side of all 3 servo connectors so I can tell by that which way they really go in rather than looking for physical similarities, much less wire color codes! :rolleyes:

Thanks for the "clue" that led to a small step for man, a giant leap for SS!
Sounds like you are getting closer Jim. Regarding channel numbers, on a full house 4-channel system, the right stick normally controls ailerons and elevator. Left stick is rudder and throttle. Most people set up a 3-channel with the rudder servo plugged into the aileron channel so yaw-roll-turn is controlled with the right stick along with elevator. Left stick is just throttle. Some of us Renegades fly 3-channel with rudder on the left stick though. Wouldn't be Renegades otherwise.

Regarding connector polarity, the normal color code is yellow for signal, red for + and black for -. Red is in the middle. So for a polarity check the black wires of the connectors are lined up on one side and the yellow on the other. However, I have a Jeti ESC that uses orange in place of the yellow and brown in place of the black. Not so easy to quickly spot the correct polarity. Your GWS might be the same. Otherwise I don't understand why the polarity doesn't match.

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 27, 2005, 11:14 AM

Regarding connector polarity, the normal color code is yellow for signal, red for + and black for -. Red is in the middle. So for a polarity check the black wires of the connectors are lined up on one side and the yellow on the other. However, I have a Jeti ESC that uses orange in place of the yellow and brown in place of the black. Not so easy to quickly spot the correct polarity. Your GWS might be the same. Otherwise I don't understand why the polarity doesn't match.

The servo wires are: Black Red and Yellow,
the Esc is: Brown Red and Orange
So that matches what you said exactly!

The most important thing is that I found a way that works, without blowing up the Rx.

Tram

Dec 27, 2005, 02:48 PM

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 27, 2005, 03:49 PM

I have yet to blow up an RX by plugging something in backwards, so it's not a huge thing to worry about, just reverse them, if it doesn't work. :D

However - the same cannot be said for plugging a battery into an ESC backwards.. You will release ye ole' majik smoke.. ;)
I read a post from a GWS person about their Pico Rx. He said they deliberately left out the reverse-voltage protection to save weight. That plugging it in backwards would often blow a particular capacitor and causing Rx glitching. So given the right radio, the danger is apparently real.

Mars Flyer

Dec 27, 2005, 08:27 PM

ChromeDome

Dec 27, 2005, 09:06 PM

I have yet to blow up an RX by plugging something in backwards, so it's not a huge thing to worry about, just reverse them, if it doesn't work. :D

However - the same cannot be said for plugging a battery into an ESC backwards.. You will release ye ole' majik smoke.. ;)
I've been told that if you can get all the smoke back in, it will still work OK.

I released it from an ESC by having the motor leads shorted. Works every time on a cheap ESC.

Ultralight

Dec 28, 2005, 11:07 AM

Did you guys cut your fuse to make the tail removable? That would be a handy feature but doesn't that weaken the fuse.

Jason

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 28, 2005, 11:12 AM

Did you guys cut your fuse to make the tail removable? That would be a handy feature but doesn't that weaken the fuse.
Jason

Please Don't cut it! It just makes the plane heavier, weakens it, and makes it more tail-heavy, all of which you don't need.

But save that piece in case you break your aluminum fuselage and need that piece to put it back together again. :rolleyes:

Moonbeam Six

Dec 28, 2005, 09:38 PM

Jason,

I don't think any of the local Slow Stick owners cut the fuselage.

Frank

dee-grose

Dec 28, 2005, 09:58 PM

Jason, I didn't cut mine...too much work!

You do need to make sure you brace up the tail with supports running down to the horizontal stab. I think someone already mentioned that. I flew mine for a long time without those and kept breaking the tail over each time it ended up on its back. A couple of bamboo skewers work great.

Tram

Dec 28, 2005, 10:00 PM

Don't cut it.. You cut it and then if you read further in the instructions, you just rejoin it..

It's for "making it easier to transport."

Don't cut..

Johnnie Paul

Dec 29, 2005, 01:13 AM

I wish I had pics for ya, but we all know what a Slow Stick looks like right...?

Todd helped me finish out the final details, charged my LiPo, and I will be ready to fly Fri morning.

Johnnie

Tram

Dec 29, 2005, 01:17 AM

I read a post from a GWS person about their Pico Rx. He said they deliberately left out the reverse-voltage protection to save weight. That plugging it in backwards would often blow a particular capacitor and causing Rx glitching. So given the right radio, the danger is apparently real.

Maybe I've just been lucky.. :)

ghee-grose

Dec 29, 2005, 08:19 AM

Maybe I've just been lucky.. :)

... or just paying attention. :rolleyes:

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 29, 2005, 01:29 PM

Given that the GWS SS manual gave a specific CG ("approximately") for the 300 motor and said nothing about a range for beginners, first flight, etc. do you Renegades work real hard and measure the CG location accurately with exacto knife blades and have an accurately measured standard CG that you monitor and maintain, checking between flights, especially after rough landings that might move things around.

Do you use your fingertips or something more scientific?

Or is this CG stuff much ado about not so much? Or perhaps you've simply been lucky.

As I said a open question. The RTFs I've bought just say to fly them the way you get them. They never specify a desired CG location. In fact, not sure if CG was ever mentioned at all.

When I first fly my new SS, hopefully Friday AM, it will be CG adjusted per Frank's suggestions. Measured with two pencils with the erasors cut into a wedge shape. Wing Sharpie marks showing the desired CG range, and so forth.

dee-grose

Dec 29, 2005, 01:58 PM

Fingertips. Don't bother with wedge-shaped erasers...too much trouble.

The reason RTFs don't mention the CG is because they are already equipped to be balanced.

UAGrad2001

Dec 29, 2005, 02:31 PM

Any comments on mounting the motor to the fuselage. I see where you can glue it but I also read about drilling a 1mm hole and using a self tapping screw???

BrunswickOH

Dec 29, 2005, 02:34 PM

Screw! any small sheet metal screw you can find will do nicely.

Jim

dee-grose

Dec 29, 2005, 03:23 PM

Yep, use a little screw to hold the gearbox on the fuse.

I also used the same trick thru the front gear support to keep the gear from sliding out. I don't think that has been mentioned here yet. :)

Andy

UAGrad2001

Dec 29, 2005, 03:44 PM

I took a late lunch and went over to Staples to buy some of the 3M EXTREME packing tape. I know why they call it EXTREME now. Because it is EXTREMEly expensive. I had to fill out a credit application to some. $8.39 per roll. Anyone found it cheaper? Oh well. You gotta pay to play.

dee-grose

Dec 29, 2005, 03:47 PM

That stuff is great for slopers.

ghee-grose

Dec 29, 2005, 03:59 PM

Comparing it to the $5 for the regular strapping tape the same size, it is well worth the extra cost to have the EXTREME kind. Trust me, I have the regular stuff on my Stryker and thought it was good until I used some of Andy's extreme kind on the slope one day to repair my broken plane, and yes, it is some good stuff! It won't come un-glued like the other stuff! :D

dee-grose

Dec 29, 2005, 04:02 PM

Dad says he's holding his SS gearbox with regular strapping tape. Says it has worked good for 2 years now.

ChromeDome

Dec 29, 2005, 06:15 PM

Dad says he's holding his SS gearbox with regular strapping tape. Says it has worked good for 2 years now.
Here is a poor photo of mine. Same idea as Frank's I believe. I also wrap around the gearbox to reinforce it at no real weight increase. Jim, note the prop saver. This is made from a servo arm. Also the drive shaft is shortened. They bend very easily at the standard length, but when shortened wil not bend.

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 29, 2005, 07:40 PM

Here is a poor photo of mine. Same idea as Frank's I believe. I also wrap around the gearbox to reinforce it at no real weight increase. Jim, note the prop saver. This is made from a servo arm. Also the drive shaft is shortened. They bend very easily at the standard length, but when shortened wil not bend.

Thanks. Actually the photo is very sharp.

Guess I missed something somewhere. I've read suggestions for something like 3-4 degrees down and right-thrust, and some claim to fly fine at zero zero. But yours looks like 15-20 degrees of down and right thrust. Is there something really different about this SS other than the camera?

I understand the concept of the propsaver. Just am not doing that right now. Perhaps after the next several broken props! :rolleyes:

Moonbeam Six

Dec 30, 2005, 02:13 AM

"Necessity is the mother of invention," or so I've heard said.

I came up with the idea of Tundra Tires© a couple of years ago when I was glide testing my Slow Stick off the front porch, in order to get the feel of how it handled and how to land it. (My first baby steps with a real RC plane after herding an Aerobird around for a few months.) The grass wasn't high, but those thin little wheels certainly wouldn't roll very well. I went to the shop and fashioned a pair from some dense foam from computer packaging. They were intended to be temporary, but they worked great, and I flew them until I wore them out. One day I saw an extra large round swim noodle in Wal-Mart, and visualized slices from it being made to fit on the wheels of my Slow Stick. They were easy to make, and worked so well, I wrote a descriptive paper, and submitted it for publication to one of the model magazines.

I've also made them to use on my Pico Stick F and my GymSwallow. Surprisingly, the additional drag isn't evident.

I am attaching the paper for others to make Tundra Tires© for their personal use. If you want to make them for profit, I get a cut.

Frank

Moonbeam Six

Dec 30, 2005, 03:29 AM

Slow Stick props are easily broken. GWS makes a prop saver, but they brake too. After breaking the second one, I decided I could do better.

I glued together two Popsicle sticks, cut them off, and drilled a hole in them. I used an old GWS prop saver hub as my front retainer. It allows the front nut to be recessed so it doesn't engage the prop, allowing the prop to rotationally flex. I suppose you could use a broken prop hub for the same purpose. Note the prop shaft only protrudes a short distance into the prop. It should be enough to keep it centered, but not so much that it prevents it from flexing backward. The rubber bands don't have to be really tight, otherwise the prop can't flex or come off the shaft when it strikes something.

You will save a lot of props with one of these, and I've never broken one. If I do, I'll just eat another Popsicle.

You might also notice that I use ordinary strapping tape to secure my gearbox to the Slow Stick fuselage. It was intended to be a temporary thing, but has worked well for two years. If I need to replace the gearbox, I just remove the tape, and replace it with new. Now how simple is that!?!

One photo shows my CG range markings under the wing. Mine flies well when it balances on my fingers at about 100 mm from the leading edge of the wing. I check it frequently and adjust something accordingly. Yes, proper CG placement is that important.

Happy Slow Stick flying!

Frank

Johnnie Paul

Dec 30, 2005, 07:01 AM

ghee-grose

Dec 30, 2005, 09:07 AM

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 30, 2005, 09:37 PM

How come a GWS Orange prop breaks sooooo easily on the SS. Yet when I have one with the hub stripped out from a prop-saver, I cannot break it by hand to save my ......??

Are these perhaps nylon or something that would benefit from boiling?? I'd sure like to break fewer of them.

Should I save and send this particular prop off for analysis to determine why it's sooooo strong? Perhaps it's an impact vs brute strength thing.

I saw Todd break a prop today despite using a prop saver. The landing did not look that bad to me. So even the oft-recommended PS won't always save the day.

Johnnie Paul

Dec 31, 2005, 12:13 AM

Well, I got the joy of seeing Johnnie maiden his slow stick this morning. :D Great job on flying it man! And great job on helping him get it going Todd! I was thinking how nice it would have been to have a person help me that's learned all those little things the hard way and would save me some time by sharing them with me before I did them. ;)

I also got to see Jim fly his for the second (or third) flight... Great job to you too! :cool:

I have kit built a glow trainer (that I sold out of frustration)

I have assembled an ARF glow trainer (traded off out frustration)

...but getting help from someone on build finalization and making it look easy...what can I say?

The first flight was a circular one, easily corrected with more trimming out...the second flight got my feet wet, and the third flight was all me...even the landing.

Later on I broke out my sons FB Commander II and with a little more help from the Renegades, my son was able to get about 10 or more minutes of his own stick time.

Today was very good, thank you to all for your help.

Johnnie

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 31, 2005, 04:44 AM

...but getting help from someone on build finalization and making it look easy...what can I say?
Johnnie
Priceless! :)

I too have appreciated the help from the Renegades and enjoy their company. Flying would certainly not be the same by myself.

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 31, 2005, 05:42 AM

I've been confused on what prop to use with my SS and 300 stock motor with D gearbox. Did some testing yesterday with some props I got from a guy in California with a SS I bought from him (turned out it had a C gear drive and props for that, no wonder I got confused!) and found some props I did not like.

Wonder why the props I don't like did not break, but the props I do like all broke!!?? Perhaps they were telling me something.

Today I found a motor/props table on the GWS site: http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/powersystem/eps300c.htm

For my motor/gearbox combination, the only recommended props are: EP1147 (slowflyer), EP1180 (aerobatics), and EP1260 (slowflyer). This agrees with my testing. Well Duh!

One thing I noticed in the D-table ( GW/EPS-300C-DS) is that looking at the thrust, using their recommended voltages, I'll never ever have thrust equal to my 16 oz SS. Unless I can shed several ounces, there will be no hanging it on the prop till I put in the brushless. Then Look Out!

I'm guessing that the recommendations in this and similar tables are for reasonable motor life. If someone has experience to the contrary, I'd like to hear about it. But then Rick at R/C Hobbies told me not to expect these cheap brushed motors to last long anyway.

Fyrwalker

Dec 31, 2005, 12:58 PM

Jim_Marconnet

Dec 31, 2005, 09:05 PM

Hey ya'll,
got some SS time this morning, got my flying fix for the day,NOT!
here's why it's important to do the tail feather mod right off the bat.
batt. went weak and tried to get over my fence,OUCH hit the :censored: fence! anyway if i'd hit the fence without the mod. i would be getting a new vertical stab. nothing alittle glue and tape can't fix.
Glad you had such good flying today.

I went to fly this afternoon with my son Scott and on the first flight when I could only turn one direction, I realized I broke the rudder yesterday. Went to R/C Hobbies for something to reinforce it. Rick said to just cut it off at the bottom and reattach. Said some folks had done that so many times that the rudder got small. I found some plastic sheet that I plan to use with some packing tape to reinforce it but to still keep it flexible. Rick said that running braces from the elevator to rudder and the other elevator tends to break all three in a crash. As usual, whatever I go in there planning to do, I come out with a totally different plan.

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 01, 2006, 10:39 AM

Just finished fixing my SS rudder that I broke off in a ground loop.

I replaced the white rectangular screw-on piece with a home-made 0.040 Styrene piece of my own design to try to make the rudder-fuselage joint less stiff. Ok, to stiffen up the rudder in the vicinity of the fuselage.

I scored and broke the styrene into shape and used clear packing tape to hold it on. The tape does not show up well in the photos. I put it on both sides of the vertical stabilizer and also on the rudder where the control horn goes thru.

In retrospect, wish I had made the "teeth" a little taller. And that I had tapered the styrene along the teeth so the packing tape had transitioned better. Oh well, at least I got two of these pieces out of this project.

When I build my next SS, I'll do something similar on the elevator.

dee-grose

Jan 01, 2006, 03:41 PM

http://avstop.com/AC/FlightTraingHandbook/GroundLoop.html

dee-grose

Jan 01, 2006, 03:41 PM

just so you know...

ghee-grose

Jan 01, 2006, 04:44 PM

Yeah, that's what I thought a ground loop was too. I think what Jim is referring to is a crash. At least that's what I saw in Chrome Dome's video he posted.

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 01, 2006, 04:50 PM

Yeah, that's what I thought a ground loop was too. I think what Jim is referring to is a crash. At least that's what I saw in Chrome Dome's video he posted.
Well, sorry if I called it wrong. You've seen the video. It was an inadvertent loop that terminated at or below the ground. Repairs were required!

What would you call it? Perhaps a "loopy couldn't pull out in time crash".

ghee-grose

Jan 01, 2006, 04:54 PM

I would call it a 270 degree loop followed by a lawn dart. :D

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 01, 2006, 05:52 PM

I've been researching if/how a SS can be flown in higher winds. Have found two suggestions so far: (1) add weight (and more power!) and (2) cut off the wing-tips.

You add about 6 oz of weight to it by putting at least a 200 watt motor on it, and a heavy battery pack and have a blast! A heavy Slow Stick with lots of power and the right mods flys quite well in the wind.

and

You cut the wing tips off at the last ridge before it curves down on the end. It will make the plane less floaty by not having the cupped ends on the wing, and it will slip thru the air much better with less drag. The down side to cutting the wing tips off, is because it is less floaty, it also won't fly as slow. I use a wing with the ends cut when the wind is blowing, and one that's uncut when its calm.

Anyone with additional suggestions?

I'm still crawling with my SS, but eventually hope to fly in stronger winds than near-calm. I have a reasonable brushless, ESC, and a relatively heavy LiPo awaiting their day in the sun/wind. Not the 200 watt system he recommends. I might be able to find a larger, heavier LiPo for weight and more run time.

Since I have several SS kits on hand, I might put together a higher power, high wind version (need 2 more servos, and possibly another Rx) and swap the Rx back and forth. Or in the short term, just swap a stock and a tipped wing onto the SS I have flying.

On this general wind-flying subject. Do you have or recommend another plane for flying in the wind? BeginEdit - Yes, I've seen Rob's Easy Star. But not aware that any other Rengade has one. So this question of what you like for higher wind flying - endEdit

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 01, 2006, 05:54 PM

I would call it a 270 degree loop followed by a lawn dart. :D
I suppose I don't get very many Judges' points for this one!?

Mars Flyer

Jan 01, 2006, 05:56 PM

I've heard such a maneuver called a "figure 9". Look at it from the side and that's what the plane traces out.

I understand that short wheel base tail draggers are especially prone to the real ground loops. I sure experienced them with my Tiger Moth. The docent at the Tucson Air Museum said the PT-17 Steerman was bad about 'em so watch out during takeoff and rollout of yours Frank ;)

Rob

dee-grose

Jan 01, 2006, 06:08 PM

Well, since I'm a full-scale pilot with a tailwheel signoff, I'll clarify that a little. The thing that makes taildraggers unstable is the fact that the CG is behind the main gear. If things are little out of trim on rollout and taxi ops, the plane wants to swap ends on ya. Makes flying a taildragger an irresistable challenge. :)

Mars Flyer

Jan 01, 2006, 06:25 PM

Thanks for the clarification Andy. Every plane I fly (all sub-scale of course) is a tail-dragger and the Tiger Moth is the only one that ground loops regularly - although I think I've done it with all of 'em. I'll bet the CG distance behind the main gear is different for the TM.

Rob

Tram

Jan 02, 2006, 01:38 AM

Real pilots fly taildraggers... :)

Moonbeam Six

Jan 02, 2006, 11:55 AM

Tram,

I'll drink to that!

Frank

ChromeDome

Jan 02, 2006, 04:24 PM

Yeah, that's what I thought a ground loop was too. I think what Jim is referring to is a crash. At least that's what I saw in Chrome Dome's video he posted.
Jim, now that everyone has beaten you up about calling it a ground loop, I'll throw my bit in. :) Back in my U-control days, we used to call that the infamous 3/4 loop. Missing that last 1/4 is hard on equipment. Your plane was pulled up into a stall and fell over on its back into the ground. For a new pilot, the adage about flying 3 mistakes high is a really good one. But that is hard with an underpowered airplane flying heavy nicads. Probably the best flght plan that day would have been to gain as much altitude as possible as quicly as possible. Then as the battery drained, you would have had some altitude to work with. It is difficult for a novice to fly near the ground just above stall speed without crashing.

A burst of power and quick down elevator would have pulled yours out I'm sure, but that would have had to have been applied very quickly and applying down probably wouldn't be obvious to a new pilot either.

In other words, don't fly low like I do. Fly high where you have some room for error.

ChromeDome

Jan 02, 2006, 04:35 PM

Tram,

I'll drink to that!

Frank
Loved you photos Frank. We had a Champ just like it at the airport in the small SW Missouri town I grew up in. I would ride my bicycle out to the airport and try to beg a ride with someone in it. Paint scheme was the same as your photo except that one was white where your is yellow and metallic green where yours is orange. Folks called it the Airknocker instead of Aeronca. Thanks for the photos.

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 02, 2006, 04:54 PM

Jim, now that everyone has beaten you up about calling it a ground loop, I'll throw my bit in......

..... with an underpowered airplane flying heavy nicads......

....Probably the best flght plan that day would have been to gain as much altitude as possible as quicly as possible. Then as the battery drained, you would have had some altitude to work with. It is difficult for a novice to fly near the ground just above stall speed without crashing......

In other words, don't fly low like I do. Fly high where you have some room for error.

I did feel a little turbulenced about the crash. Oh well, gotta become a little thick-skinned or else become a R/C Hermit.

I've gotten conflicting advice on using LiPos. The NiMhs and for sure the Nicads feel real heavy to me in the SS.

Have decided to leave this SS as-is for now for calm-wind flying and go ahead and put together my First Class Brushless LiPo SS with DX6 radio. Went to R/C Hobbies this afternoon and bought it with some Christmas $$ from my Mom, plus $$ from some wrong-sized Christmas clothes I managed to return. Can you say Excited!

Tram

Jan 02, 2006, 06:21 PM

jasoncy2k

Jan 02, 2006, 06:59 PM

I recently maidened my slow stick. Check out the video.

http://www.jasonchao.com/My%20Slow%20Stick.MOV

Jason,

I listed some of the mods I made on my Slow Stick at the following post on our old thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4604732&postcount=1120

I was responding to Jim's query and he is planning to use brushless - hence the comments about that. I started with the stock 300 motor and switched to a GWS 400 which I like a lot. The good thing about the 300 is that it is happy with your 6 or 7 cell Aerobird packs. The 400 will fly OK with the 7 cell but is way more fun with an 8 cell pack.

Frank (Moonbeam 6) came up with the tundra tires. He cut them from a swim noodle.

I'm approaching 2 years with my Slow Stick and still love to fly it.

Rob

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 02, 2006, 07:44 PM

I recently maidened my slow stick. Check out the video.

http://www.jasonchao.com/My%20Slow%20Stick.MOV
Some time later, I'm still downloading it. Seems it may truely be a Movie! :)

Hope we don't bust your website thruput quota.

Finally got it - 27 Megs! Gutsy flying a brand new plane over a blacktop parking lot with all the obstructions. Nice flight and clean landing. Good proof that it flies!

Jim_Marconnet

Jan 02, 2006, 07:48 PM

I would use some cheap (i've got some I told you you could have I will give to Andy G tomorrow) for your SS.. once you've busted it up several times, go to the lipo's..

I would reccomend getting lipo's ASAP just not for your inital trainer..
Thanks.

I bought the one LiPo quite some time ago, then got advised NOT to use it right away. Thus have been using the NiMh and even Nicad packs I had from Commander IIs and that I bought from a guy in California. Somehow "Nicads" did not soak thru my thick skull. Sometimes mail-order you see what you want to see. Can you say Heavy and low-capacity. But Tough!

Ultralight

Jan 03, 2006, 08:01 PM

I had to change out my gearbox on my Slowstick. Rick didn't have a C gearbox so i had to get a D. Now i have to change the pinion gear. Anyone know the best way to change it without spending $15 on a gear puller i will probably only use once.

Jason

ghee-grose

Jan 03, 2006, 08:05 PM

I've yet to have any luck changing a pinion gear out. I tried once with no luck. I used a pair of vise grips and a small hammer to try to tap it off... it didn't work. I just went and bought another gear to match it.

dee-grose

Jan 03, 2006, 08:39 PM

Jason, my SS came with a D-gearbox for my 300. Seems like some others had C-gearboxes, so they may not be consistent. If other planes are any indication, I thought the lower-lettered gearboxes are more for speed (ie, lower gear ratio). The Formosas come with the C-gearbox. The D-gearbox is usually used on 3D planes where more torque is beneficial. I like the way the D has worked on my SS, but I haven't done any extensive "testing" to prove this to you guys :rolleyes:

But to answer your question, no, I haven't tried to swap a pinion gear.

Andy

Moonbeam Six

Jan 03, 2006, 09:11 PM

Jason,

Fly the D and see how you like it. I've used both, and I "think" I liked the D better, but it really don't seem to make much difference.... at least the way I fly. As far as I am concerned, whatever is available when I need to replace a gearbox will work.

Frank

Ultralight

Jan 03, 2006, 10:16 PM

Oh well...i bent the motor shaft trying to get it off. Looks like its back to Rick`s tomorrow.

Jason

UAGrad2001

Jan 07, 2006, 10:01 PM

Okay, so I am trying to put the finishing touches on my Slowstick and I have run across a question. The picture shows the servo horns (the ones attached to the servo, not the tail) mounted such that they are perpendicular to the fuselage. Well the servos that Rick sold me (Blue Bird BMS-371 Micro Servo) have double-sided horns. Not sure if that is what you call them. So if I mount the servos perpendicular to the fuselage the unused sides of each servo run into each other. I guess I could mount them at angles or I could just clip off the unused side. I am leaning toward just clipping the unused part off which brings me to my question. Can you buy new horns for this type of servo at RC's? I don't know why but I don't like doing something permanent without being able to go back and start over - i.e. buy a new horn. (Pardon me if I haven't used the correct terminology concerning the part names) If I have confused anyone I could post a picture. Thanks for the help. :)

Moonbeam Six

Jan 07, 2006, 10:46 PM

UAGrad,

You can either cut off one of the arms per servo or used a single arm. While I haven't bought them at RCH, I'm sure they are available. As far as I know, the shaft sizes are the same for that size servos.

I am like you. I don't like to make anything "un-doable" that I don't have to. A word of caution is in order before cutting a servo arm. The splined shaft has an odd number of splines, so, with the servo in the neutral position, putting the servo arm on one way will have it centered, but if you remove it, rotate it 180 degrees, it won't go back on. It will be a little forward or aft of neutral. Just make doubly sure that you cut off the arm that you want to. Power up the system, center the trims, and note the position of the servo arm. Adjust as necessary to get it positioned the way you want it, then mark the arm you want to cut off.

From the looks of the wind forecast on Launch Code, you've got plenty of time to get it ready.

Frank