3 different stator sizes project

[ecologito]

Ok, I got this three stators 22mm from a stock CD Rom unit, 32mm from a moto tool and 35 mm from a Drill.

I hope I can use a lathe to turn the bells I need for this stators and bore the stator tube and install some bearings. I will keep this thread update as I the project goes if there is interest.

For the 35 mm stator I need a 39.7 ID bell to use 12x5x2 mm magnets for an airgap of 0.1919

For the 32mm stator a 36.7 ID bell will get 7x5x2mm magnets and an airgap of 0.1789

[mike3976]

eco, It's going to be interesting to see what you come up with on the larger diameter stators.

[osmium_192]

Hi

Whats that in the centre of the stators? looks like a large chunk of aluminium. I have what looks like your smaller one and maybe in future if time allows ill also try to make one out of it. Your intended gaps of 0.1919 and 0.1789 seem a tad bit ambitious to achieve to that accuracy (lol only joking i know those are just theoretical values).

What i would try to do to make the inside the right size is maybe have the bell in the chuck and maghine the inside within 0.5mm and gradually machine the inside of the bell out and continually test fit the magnets and stator(with say 1 layer of tape to prevent scratching magnets) untill you JUST get the stator in. (Make sure you remove ALL ferromagnetic materials such as the steel shavings first) This would ensure a perfect fit rather than a theoretical that might just be on the wring side of the intended size.

Owen

[latrans]

Eco,

What is the lamination thickness on the the two larger stators? Do you have any idea as to what the quality of the stator material is? Beware not all stators are created equal I would be sure that I read up on what others had success with in the past before I put alot of work into these large motors. I don't mean to discourage I just know from personal experience that you can waste alot of time if you don't start with the right components. I'll be following this thread and good luck.

Latrans

[ecologito]

Latrans laminations are 0.5 mm on the big stators. About material and quality of the stators I have no clue, I guess stators are not created equal but I asume that they were part of a motor and they can be used for another one ;)

What are your findings about this large motors? I'd like to know and not having to - as we say in Mexico - invent the black string. ;)

[fly_boy99]

heck I'd like to know where you get your iron/steel stock to lathe the bells?

looks interesting..

[clausxpf]

I too have played around with stators harvested form old hand tools... It can work...
I few pictures of my attemps to make highspeed outrunners for fans.

[ecologito]

This is what I have in mind for the endbell for my 35mm stator.

About buying the Iron to build the bell there are some metal stores here where you can go and get what you need. I will try to take a picture of the store. you go and get it by weight and it comes in "shafts" as wide or long as you need them.

I'll let you know whenever I turn this bell for my project

[ecologito]

i just worked on a lathe for a bit. This is the bell that I made. It´s a 2 piece, fluxring/end bell. Now I need to work on the stator/bearing mount. I need to polish it so the look a little better. Next thing is to turn the stator holder to get rid of the iron one and make the motor a little lighter. :)

[ecologito]

heck I'd like to know where you get your iron/steel stock to lathe the bells?

looks interesting..


I went to a metal store where they have pipes, tubes and rods, lots of sizes and what I used for the 35 mm stator bell is a water tube. All I did is take my stator and measure pipes and all I did is thin it out with a lathe, very quick method. I am guessing this is the easiest way to make flux rings. :)

http://www.cosmos.com.mx/o/4x4y.htm

[mlh1961]

Has any one looked at the feasability of using the cans from old brush type 05 car motors for bells/cans for outrunners?

[Chippie]

It has been tried with speed400/480 cans with success....Was featured in QEFI sometime back iirc..

[clausxpf]

a little locktite is what is needed to make the flux ring stuck to the bell
But here is one more idea for the bell....
This one is made only by hand....
but it makes cascede magnets a lot eazier.
Claus

[mlh1961]

I have a bunch of burned up brushed motors from 380 up the 500 cans. So I think I'm going to use those for the end bells and flux rings. I have checked them with the magnetsa still ihem and have no magnetism outside the can. I think they should work very well.

I have an idea for a HUGE, 50 +mm stator motor, I'll post a thread when I build it

[Rad Racer]

heck I'd like to know where you get your iron/steel stock to lathe the bells?

I have used black pipe from Home Depot to make concentrator rings.....cheap and works great.

[ecologito]

Here is an update on my project, I need to insulate the stator, order magnets and it should be ready to go :) :)

[ecologito]

tested a 5x5x2 magnet and tha airgap is 0.2123 mm ( calculated). Since I don't have a micrometer, I'd guess that the airgap is even smaller. Take your guess. :rolleyes:

[olmod]

:) I think id save that big lathe for a larger project , how do you get by without a micrometer ? i suppose you could use a feeler gauge,i have about 4 sets of verniers raging from super quality to ones that have been modified for edge marking on sheetmetals,they are the one indispensible tool that i just would not be without.in the croco thread there was a good tip on insulating the stators using silk wich is a traditional insulator and was popular for many years so if you know any ladies who would want to donate a little bit of silk for a good cause :D just dont go out snow dropping :D ummm maybe you dont have that expression, id better explain ,its the title given to people who steal washing off clothes lines. cheers . :)

[ecologito]

Olmod, feel free to come to Mexico and use the big lathe anytime you want :)
All I used was a vernier but is not really precise. Once you I was trying to get the endbell's inside diameter to 39.8mm that was a real pain.. Oh well It turned out right I was thinking of using nail polish or Epoxy to insulate the stator. About snow dropping I had no idea what you meant because here we never get snow LOL, thanks for the hints I will work on it a little more. I am wondering how would this motor perform with 28 turns of 22 gauge wire (Y) LRK

[olmod]

:) snow dropping is just a nickname it has no reference to snow,how it got the name i dont know,as for insulation a light spray with some ladies hairspray is enough ;) just on one side. as to your number of turns ,i dont think you would get that many on ,here is one of my builds wich was considered to be high on efficiency,it could have been wound hotter.
16 10x5x2 n50
8tx2x.5mm x y
no load @7.8v 5.200rpm =666.6 kv
@11.6v 8000rpm=689.6 kv

gwshd 1060 @10.2v @6.5amps@6200rpm=18.69oz thrust

.......1170.............9.5 .......6000......26.74.........

.......1280.............11.5.......5200......29.25 .........
but it was not lrk. but it should give you an idea what to try. cheers :)

[CRB68]

Ok, I got this three stators 22mm from a stock CD Rom unit, 32mm from a moto tool and 35 mm from a Drill.

I hope I can use a lathe to turn the bells I need for this stators and bore the stator tube and install some bearings. I will keep this thread update as I the project goes if there is interest.

For the 35 mm stator I need a 39.7 ID bell to use 12x5x2 mm magnets for an airgap of 0.1919

For the 32mm stator a 36.7 ID bell will get 7x5x2mm magnets and an airgap of 0.1789

Good try.

Your airgap is a bit wide. On the motors I have made I have maintained a gap of .11 to .15 and the motors loved it. I made some with an airgap such as yours and the motors did not have any high speed capability. They would start to stutter and slow down at a throttle of 3/4 and to wide open once a prop was put on them.

PJ

[ecologito]

Thanks a lot PJ, I like small airgaps as well, on my "CD Size" motors usually have to dremel the stator heads to actually have an airgap othewise the magnets rub, I use 6x3x1.5 instead of the usual 5x5x1
I need to order some magnets :)

[fly_boy99]

Great job ecologito!!!

You need to pickup a cheap micrometer from www.harborfreight.com. A .21 airgap isn't that bad although it could be better.

Hey since you have a larger stator try using 20G!!! Lower resistence, higher amp draw, lower temp per current draw.

Maybe 15T of 20G terminated wye?? I guess I should ask is this setup for thrust or speed?

fb

p.s. If you need to have a micrometer sent to ya I'll do it.

[ecologito]

Great job ecologito!!!

You need to pickup a cheap micrometer from www.harborfreight.com. A .21 airgap isn't that bad although it could be better.

Hey since you have a larger stator try using 20G!!! Lower resistence, higher amp draw, lower temp per current draw.

Maybe 15T of 20G terminated wye?? I guess I should ask is this setup for thrust or speed?

fb

p.s. If you need to have a micrometer sent to ya I'll do it.

Thanks a lot flyboy, I have 22 and 23 gauge wire, I can go to a Magnet wire store and get pretty much any gauge and ammount I need ( as little as 1/4 th of a lb.)

About the micrometer I will buy one as soon as I move to the Carolinas next month, if somebody needs wire I can buy it for you guys and ship it as soon as I get there. Any ammount, any size wire, 100 grams of wire ( little spool with 100 yards of 24 gauge wire) for 10 bucks or so.

[ecologito]

I am here trying something, since I don't hace silk, I thought about insulating the stator with GWS glue. It is pretty plastic and hard when it dries, we'll see if it works. I also tested how many turns I could fit and so far I got 19 turns with 23 gauge wire and it seems to have lots of room for either more turns or thicker wire. since I've heard that a 3rd layer of wire increases a lot the temperature I might go and buy some 19 or 20 gauge wire and see what happens. Just a thought.. if a really good CD motor is a 17 to 19 turns motor, what would happen if I get 17 to 19 turns with 19 or 20 gauge wire on this 35 mm diameter, 8mm high stator? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[latrans]

Eco,

I can give you a little guidance on both the things you mentioned in your last post. For insulating the stator I have had good success using 5 minute epoxy. Usually I mix a small amount and using a tooth pick I smear a thin layer over the edges, top and bottom of the stator but typically I don't coat the area on the inside of the stator arm. Don't use too much and don't let it run between the arms as that will take up space where the wire should be. Once that first layer hardens repeat on the other face of the stator. If need be apply a second coat then wait 24hrs before winding (allow time for the epoxy to cure). With this method I've done 6 stator without a short.

As for the number of turns: I built a series of motors using stators that were 28.5mm x 10mm for these I wound up using 10t delta in the distributed LRK winding pattern which would be equal to (about) 6t wye. This turns a 11x4.7 inch prop drawing 20amps on 3s lipos. Given that your motor will be bigger I don't think that you will want to use any more turns than that.

Hope this helps.

latrans

[olmod]

12 t of 20g ? :) depends on watts required :)

[ecologito]

hmm.. All I have is a 10C 3s 1p 1200 Mah li po so I have to either get a bigger battery or keeps amps really low on this motor. Because if the size of the motor I am guessing I might need a bigger battery :P

This is a good looking pack:
http://staticconcepts.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=1

20C 11.1V 1500mAh 3S1P - $56.00 bucks...

[olmod]

mmm id try 14 t of 22g :) might suit your pack better. cheers. :)

[ecologito]

Since I don't have magnets for this motor right now and the wire store closes on weekends I decided to paint the motor. Spraypaint and spin it on the lowest demel speed. :)

[ecologito]

I haven't heard from George ( strong magnets) :o , I don't know if he has some email issues or something :confused: , so I decided to start winding my motor anyways.

It doesen't seem to be too hard to get 15 turns of 22 gauge wire ( ABC scheme).

We'll see if I can get answer from George... I'll keep adding copper to my project. :rolleyes:

I read some posts about insulating the stator and I decided to use what I have laying around. I used GWS glue which is a lot like UHU craft glue, with a toothpick I spread some on the top and the bottom being sure that covers all the arm's corners.

Every tooth I wind I check for shorts and the first phase is clean. I hope this glue works, I'll let you know whenever I'm done.

[Ron H]

I hope it works out, but I fear the glue will soften with just a little heat. Perhaps you could test by briefly connecting this phase to a small pack, then check for shorts. It might save an ESC.

I'm experimenting with appliance epoxy. Waiting for it to cure so I can wind.

[ecologito]

Ron, If the glue softens with a little heat it doesen't matter, wire will be in place with unharmed coat, so I am hoping it works.

[Blackhawk3D]

I wouldn't think it would matter if the glue softened, once it is wound it isn't going to short out if there aren't already chips in the wire.

[Blackhawk3D]

Of, course, that is as long as it doesn't seep out into the magnets, or out into the bearings or anywhere else it could muck things up.

[Ron van Sommeren]

I hope it works out, but I fear the glue will soften with just a little heat. ...Let it cure in an oven at about 80C (without the magnets). The epoxy will be more temperature resistant.

Vriendelijke groeten ;) Ron

[Ron H]

It's good to know that baking helps, that's what I was waiting for. Now it waits for me.

[Ron van Sommeren]

See also chapter three:
http://www.torcman.de/motoren/manuals/anl_eco_200e_scr.pdf

Vriendelijke groeten ;) Ron t(w)oo

[Rad Racer]

Has anyone tried powder coating a stator? It's should provide good protection for the wires.

[ecologito]

Here it is:

The stator not totally full but is not bad, 16 turns, 22gauge wire ABC scheme, I am thinking of terminations Y. this might be too low Kv, so delta might be a little better, not sure until I hear from George ( strong magnets ) and get the 10x5x2 I wish I had now.

[latrans]

Eco,

I think that you will find the kV of your motor as it is wound to be too low to be of much use for 2s and 3s voltage. You may want to consider reterminating delta.

Latrans

[ecologito]

Eco,

I think that you will find the kV of your motor as it is wound to be too low to be of much use for 2s and 3s voltage. You may want to consider reterminating delta.

Latrans

That is what I was thinking latrans, have it terminated delta and run it on 3s

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: 4s :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Ron H]

While you are running yours, I am runnning in to problems. The epoxy worked fine, but I didn't coat the back of the heads well enough to prevent shorts on that last bottom turn. Recoating dissolved the old stuff, so I'm at ground zero.

[latrans]

While you are running yours, I am runnning in to problems. The epoxy worked fine, but I didn't coat the back of the heads well enough to prevent shorts on that last bottom turn. Recoating dissolved the old stuff, so I'm at ground zero.


Ron,

Do I understand that you mixed more epoxy and covered the under-covered areas and that uncured epoxy disolved the cured epoxy? If so that seems wierd to me, I could see it softening a little but to actually dissolve.......... what kind of epoxy are you using?

Latrans

[Ron H]

It's spray paint called appliance epoxy. Reading the can closely I found it is actually enamel paint that requires recoating within one hour or after 5 days to prevent lifting. Apparently I rushed it, even with the baking. Another test using spray enamel that can be recoated at any time has been wound without shorts, but has not been run yet.