100"+ glider recommendation

[cynjon]

I'm looking for a winter build project and I'd like to get some input on what kit to select. I'm looking for a thermaler capable of being launched with a heavy duty hi-start, probably RES at a minimum but I've got nothing against flaps or ailerons, either. I would love to build one of the old Airtronics kits, like a Sagitta 900, but they are getting hard to find and expensive. I would consider a Sagitta 600, if one presented itself, but I'd prefer to go 100" or bigger. I also really like the djearotech Chrysalis, but I wish it came in a 100" version...I've read through tons of threads here on RCG looking for recommendations, and I've come up with this list of candidates:

NES Kestrel
NES Pulsar (a little spendy, FG fuse)
mmglidertech Marauder (I really like this kit, upper/lower spoilers are interesting)
Isthmus Models Mistral
Skybench Oly II (this was my first sailplane many years ago, wish I'd kept it!)
Skybench Big Bird (I like the BoT design, but there's a lot of them around)

Does anyone have any other suggestions or recommendations? I'd like to keep my cost under $150, and I don't want an ARF...I need something to occupy my time this winter :)

TIA,
Jon

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

3 meter Gnome.

[cynjon]

3 meter Gnome.

I've seen the 2m gnome kits on eBay...who sells the 3m?

I should also add the LaserArts Scepter 100 (Oly II copy) and Majestic to the list, although as much as I love the quality of the LaserArts kit, I'd rather not build a fuse/boom type sailplane. I just like the looks of a 1-piece fuselage better.

[schrederman]

Houston Hawk... winner of TNT RES competition...

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Same eBay seller, Jerry Bridgeman. Send him a message through his eBay mail.

[bobby legue]

Yardbird-sorta houston hawkish
or a bubble dancer!

[wingsnapper]

Under $150 my vote goes to the Big Bird or the Laser Arts 100" or 120" (I forgot the names). JS

[wingsnapper]

Under $150 my vote goes to the Big Bird or the Laser Arts Sceptor or Majestic. JS

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

You can vote only once!

;)

[allanp]

I've built and owned both the "Big Bird" and "Majestic"(laser arts) and there is no comparison.Big Bird wins hands down as far as durability and flying capability.
Ask anyone who has a stock Majestic what happens if you nose it over and let it dive for 4-5 seconds ! When you try to pull out the boom flexs so much that in order to recover you need to give it full down and do an outside loop to regain control. There are 20-25 mods outlined by Drela for the Majestic but by the time you incorporate them you could've built a Bubble Dancer
The big Bird has no nasty tendancies,launches well off a Hi-start,and can hold its own on windy days. Be sure to check out the Skybench site for tips on building the Bird.
If I ever went back to flying RES I would consider the Sky Bird
Allan

[wingsnapper]

I don't know what came over me... Can I to do it again?... Please?!?
JS

[cynjon]

Houston Hawk... winner of TNT RES competition...

Houston Hawk, Yardbird, Bubble Dancer...all great sailplanes, but as far as I know, none are available as a complete kit. I really want to stick to a full kit because, despite living in a city of 300K+ people, decent LHS's are virtually NON-EXISTENT! I don't mind having to scratch-build some things, but I can't even find a decent selection of balsa here...

Keep the suggestions coming! :)

[cynjon]

Same eBay seller, Jerry Bridgeman. Send him a message through his eBay mail.

From the link on his eBay auctions, to the Midway Specials page, I think I'd be better off with a Paragon, than the Gnome...cheaper and 19oz. lighter :eek:

[Tim Wolff]

Polecat Aero has a Bubble Dancer kit in the works.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

From the link on his eBay auctions, to the Midway Specials page, I think I'd be better off with a Paragon, than the Gnome...cheaper and 19oz. lighter :eek:

No. You are better off with a 3 meter Gnome. Ten times stronger than the Paragon. Better airfoil. Seen the 3 meter go for less than $100 on eBay auctions.

[Masterpiece]

Hi,

My vote is for the Arthobby planes (yes I know it coming). I have the JK Thermic and it flies GREAT. I have great confidence in all Arthobby planes. And their range is only getting better :D

[Wylie Shaw]

Also take a look at the 3M Scooter, they are available through Spirit of Yesteryear or NE Sailplanes. There is a build by Ejett on this board as we speak (type)..The Mistral's sad to say are no longer being produced...Ishtmus Models is trying to pick em up but don't know where that is at present.

www.soy.on.ca
www.nesail.com


Best Regards,

Wylie S.
:D :D :D

[Mark Miller]

I have made an offer but have not received a reply on the Mistral kits. I am working hard to bring some of the wood kits I have been working on to market this winter.

The closest is a full kit for the Mirage. Plans and laser files are done. I am waiting to get the parts here to start production. The only real changes to the original design is to make the wing bolt on. I also made the spar shear webbing a bit larger. The last one my buddy Augie McKibben built came in at 37 oz with a spoiler. In my mind it is a better flyer than the Oly II but did not benefit from the marketing skill of Lee Renaud.

I am also working on a 100", 2, and 3 meter version of the Zephyr HLG that I currently sell. These were designed by Bob Owens and are similar to the Gnomes.

I have also recently bought rights to the RESolution 3 meter built up and CARA 2 meter that was previously sold by Whyte Wings.

I also have ready to sell the Mini Bird of Time which is a 2 meter version of the BOT and was designed and sold by Mark's Models back in the 80's. I have converted it to laser cut parts. I have not promoted it much yet.

I have other designs that need kitting but there is only so many hours in a day. I hope I can help you with a kit of your liking.

Regards,

Mark Miller
Isthmus Models

[cynjon]

Mark, thanks for the reply--I got your email as well. I am really disappointed that the Mistral is no longer in production...it currently sits at the top of my short list of 3m kits to build. Unless anyone has one laying around that they won't get to? Anyone? ;)

How far off is the Mirage kit? Estimated cost? I'm sure it flys well, it's really light, but I have trouble getting past that offset rudder from an aesthetic point of view...

I really wish I could afford a Sagitta 900 kit (assuming I could find one), but that design (sleek fuselage, flying stab, shoulder-mounted wings) is what I'm really gunning for. The Mistral probably came closest to that, style-wise. A close second is the Pulsar from NESail, but still more $$$ than my budget allows.

I'm sure the Gnome is a great flyer, but the styling is kinda bland, IMO. I did find the Gemini MTS from Midway Models, as well, which piqued my interest. 100", 44oz., flying stab...anyone have any experience with one?

Right now my list stands at:

1: Sagitta (a guy can dream, can't he?)
2: Mistral (If I can find one)
3: Scooter 3m
4: Pulsar
5: Marauder from MMgliderTech (a deal at current $99 sale price, split spoilers are interesting)
6: Gemini MTS
7: Kestrel 100 from NESail (I'd like to see how their 3-servo flaperon/spoileron setup works, I can't find any plans or details or pictures anywhere...)
8: Gnome 3M/Mirage (tie)

I think I may have to post a "wanted" thread in the "for sale" forum. Keep the suggestions coming!

Thanks,
Jon

[Hawksnest]

I'm looking for a winter build project and I'd like to get some input on what kit to select. I'm looking for a thermaler capable of being launched with a heavy duty hi-start, probably RES at a minimum but I've got nothing against flaps or ailerons, either. TIA,
Jon

I have 4 Big Birds, RES, REF, RE, all are super flyers, and will launch hard. Big Bird gets my vote as the best all around 100" plane. Bill G.

[cynjon]

Also take a look at the 3M Scooter, they are available through Spirit of Yesteryear or NE Sailplanes. There is a build by Ejett on this board as we speak (type)..The Mistral's sad to say are no longer being produced...Ishtmus Models is trying to pick em up but don't know where that is at present.

www.soy.on.ca
www.nesail.com


Best Regards,

Wylie S.
:D :D :D

Wylie, I looked through the Scooter build thread--I'm not sure how I missed that one. Looks like a really nice plane, not quite as sleek as some of the other designs, but unique. I found it on the SOY site, but I was unable to find anything on the NESail site...Are you sure they carry them? Are there any U.S. sites that carry them? (Shipping may be cheaper from a US vendor)

Still waiting on a flight report from the build thread...

[trident58]

Wylie, I looked through the Scooter build thread--I'm not sure how I missed that one. Looks like a really nice plane, not quite as sleek as some of the other designs, but unique. I found it on the SOY site, but I was unable to find anything on the NESail site...Are you sure they carry them? Are there any U.S. sites that carry them? (Shipping may be cheaper from a US vendor)

Still waiting on a flight report from the build thread...
Try www.darehobby.com
It's listed under the Spirit of Yesteryear electrics page.
I'm thinking of getting a Scooter myself, but I'm having too much fun with my Majestic!
Jon

[mmartin55]

Can't it be scale and still thermal? Speaking of Lee Renaud, what about his last design, the 1/4 scale Slingsby Tutor? It does use the Sagitta XC ribs and wing construction, just a little different fuse and tails.

Specs:
Span 131"
Area 1570
Airfoil Eppler 205
All up weight 8 lbs

[ejett]

Wylie, I looked through the Scooter build thread--I'm not sure how I missed that one. Looks like a really nice plane, not quite as sleek as some of the other designs, but unique. I found it on the SOY site, but I was unable to find anything on the NESail site...Are you sure they carry them? Are there any U.S. sites that carry them? (Shipping may be cheaper from a US vendor)

Still waiting on a flight report from the build thread...

'Erich' is the builder of the Scooter. He is a very good builder. I wish I was building one. But, job and home interference is keeping me from building anything right now.

EJ

[ejett]

Can't it be scale and still thermal? Speaking of Lee Renaud, what about his last design, the 1/4 scale Slingsby Tutor? It does use the Sagitta XC ribs and wing construction, just a little different fuse and tails.

Specs:
Span 131"
Area 1570
Airfoil Eppler 205
All up weight 8 lbs


I do not have any doubts that the tutor will thermal. It should be a pretty nice plane to fly for sport if nothing else. I don't think it is "sleek" enough to be competitive in cross-country, not that it can't be used that way.

EJ

[cynjon]

Revised my list above...the Scooter is starting to grow on me after re-reading "Erich"'s build thread. I can get it from the Dare Hobby site for $156 shipped...on the high side of my budget. I'm still trying to convince myself that this ship is $60 better than the Marauder or Kestrel, which both sell for under $100...

[spinolio]

I built a Laser Arts Majestic 110 last winter and it fly's great. The kit is $120 at www.laserarts.com. If you do build this one add the carbon and Kevlar thread to the spar. Mine takes a hard launch with no problem.

[Wylie Shaw]

Sorry for the Mis-information. NeSail did carry em but they evidently dropped em. Wasn't aware of Dare Hobbies...It's getting so that C.R.S. is setting in faster than I can think, Darn!! where did I put that!!!! geez now can't seem to remember what I was lookin fer..... :eek: :eek: Whatever you decide have fun and it'll fly just fine......now I'll fade off into the sunset.....


Best Regards,


Wylie S.

[tw126a]

Does anyone know about this outfit,Kit Cutters (http://www.kitcutters.com/index.htm) ? They have an Aquila for $140. Just look up sailplanes under RCM plans, there are a number of classics. Just wondering what the quality is like.

Tom

[neonbutterfly]

i would definitely wait for the bubble dancer (mark drela design) from polecataero......denny said it would be available for the winter building season....i will be building one over the winter, but i am assembling a "drela" kit from the various component manufacturers.....ie. they way the original plane was desinged on the charles river site.....

i am currently finishing up an allegro lite e- and the construction methods employed by mark are somewhat easy to build.....just a different technology than we are used to......after the allegro the bubble dancer should be a lot easier..

bob

[cynjon]

Sorry for the Mis-information. NeSail did carry em but they evidently dropped em. Wasn't aware of Dare Hobbies...It's getting so that C.R.S. is setting in faster than I can think, Darn!! where did I put that!!!! geez now can't seem to remember what I was lookin fer..... :eek: :eek: Whatever you decide have fun and it'll fly just fine......now I'll fade off into the sunset.....


Best Regards,


Wylie S.


:D I can relate...

In googling info on the Scooter, I found several references to NESail wrt it, so I figured that they had carried it in the past...

[cynjon]

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread...While I still may build a Scooter in the future (REALLY nice looking kit), I was able to find a NIB Mistral 3m Kit from a RCGroups member for a fair price. So now I look forward to building the biggest glider I've ever built...My original Oly II at 100" is the biggest I've built so far.

I guess I'm one of those who enjoy building as much as flying, maybe more! It doesn't feel right when I don't have something pinned to my building board... :)

[Mark Miller]

Jon,

Congrats on finding a MISTRAL. You will love it.

Mark Miller

[slozuke]

So, Mark. What is the latest on the Mirage? I saw a post earlier in this thread asking about approx times and costs. Still looking around the beginning of the year? Where do you think the kit price will fall? I don't know about anyone else but I'm just waiting on your word to order mine.
How 'bout now?....


How 'bout now?....


How 'bout now?....


How 'bout now?.... :rolleyes:

[Mark Miller]

Zuke,

Here is the progress on the Mirage full kit. Plans are done. Laser files are out being cut. I have the basis for a manual with photos. I am looking into making a material list of stock wood, hardware etc now. I'll know more about pricing after I total up the cost of stuff in the box. I am looking to be around $100.00 to $125.00. I am hoping for around the first of the year.

My wife and I are adopting a little girl from Ukraine. We should be traveling in February so that may get in the way of the kit by a bit but if I work hard I should have it done quickly. We will be in Ukraine for about a month while this happens. We will then be adopting another newborn domestically in April. We are trying to work it out so that I'll be Mr. Mom and can do my business stuff too. Then in the summer it looks like we will be moving to St. Louis because of my wife's job transfer. It's going to be a busy year.

Mark Miller
Isthmus Models

[marty o]

Mark,
Congratulations. Adopting two little ones, that's the coolest.
I'll be sad if it takes you away from the model sailplane biz, but that's just me being selfish. You have more important things to do. Good luck.

[Mark Miller]

Thanks Marty,

The plan has been over the past few years to grow the business enough so that it can be an income producer. It does make some money but it is all put back in to the business to grow things and develop new products. I can't say I am there yet but hopefully soon. Right now I need the real job to help out but with two kids to tend to hopefully it can fill in the gaps. Besides, What was once my hobby has developed into making kits from the ground up and such. I really get a kick out of it. Having a wife that is as supportive as mine helps a lot too.

Mark

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Owning a balsa plantation and mill and a stand of sitka spruce in Canada helps too.

[Mark Miller]

So does a wealthy spouse.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

Want to adopt me too?

[Mark Miller]

As long as you have a wealthy spouse.

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

No. But you do!

[Mark Miller]

No I don't either....I just said it would help

[Eberwein]

Ok, I feel the need to answer this post since it does effect my business ...

Ask anyone who has a stock Majestic what happens if you nose it over and let it dive for 4-5 seconds ! When you try to pull out the boom flexs so much that in order to recover you need to give it full down and do an outside loop to regain control. There are 20-25 mods outlined by Drela for the Majestic but by the time you incorporate them you could've built a Bubble Dancer

Not everyone who ahs a Majestic has this problem. There have been about 6 people that I know of, now including you that have experienced this out of about 350 of the kits sold minus how ever many did not get built yet. That said, however, the boom will be changed to a CF wrapped one whenever they are available again, mostly for weight reduction.

There are NOT 20-25 mods reccomended by Dr. Drela for our plane. Yes, they were written to make it more competitive, but the stock version is a very sweet flying plane. The "Drela" mods are listed below with comments.

1. Change dihederal angles of panels: This is already available as a no-charge option.
2. Curve tip like the Alegro Lt. - Might be done on the future version, but it is not necessary.
3. Washout at mid panel - has been in the instructions for about 3 years.
4. Tail Volume Increases - As #1, is already available, at no charge.
5. Wing Airfoil changes - We like the airfoild that is on it already ... airfoils can be a matter of taste and flying style.
6. CF Boom to replace fiberglass boom - already noted above.
7. CF reinforcements on spars. IF IF IF the wing is built properly with good SOLID glue joints between the webs and spars, it will take a full-pedal launch, as I have done it many many many times, and so have others. Yes, if you are wanting to power launch constantly, you should add some CF to the spars to make sure. This is the case with most sailplanes designed before these types of launches became the norm.

Nope, it's not a B.D. and it's not meant to be either. It's meant to be a relatively inexpensive 110" RES sailplane that's easy and fun to fly. Incorporating any of the Drela mods are a matter of personal taste and for everything except the airfoild mods, it's not time consuming because all someone has to do is ask for different parts and they get them.

Brian

[SoCalGliderFlyr]

No I don't either....I just said it would help

My confussion.

[trident58]

Brian, well said! My Majestic is built almost stock (except for bd tailboom and carbon rods for the stabs) and it's the best sailplane I've ever flown. Matter of fact, last weekend I out-thermalled a vulture with it- he had to flap wings to stay with me. It's also really durable. I cartwheeled mine twice in a dirt lot and the worst damage was scraped monokote on the wingtips. I've reccomended it to a number of people, and I'm thinking of building another one for my dad. Excellent design at any price!
Jon

[schrederman]

Either can be had with a little on line ordering. A full kit is not something I want because I usually replace some or all of the wood anyway. Both are excellent performers. The Hawk, properly built, is capable of 2000 ft. vertical dives and full pedal launches. If you'd substitute that for full-kit availability, so be it...

Jack Womack

[Eplane65]

I have a Mistral 2600 by Reichard models. The span is 102 inch and has flaps. All up weight is 3 lbs., 14 oz.

Flies and looks great.

[Ray Hayes]

I hope this doesn't shock some of you too much, but I will be shipping my long
awaited 157" ASK 18 starting December 20. If you want one, print my web order form and fax or mail it to me. No info has been posted to my web site yet.

http://www.skybench.com


Short Kit details:


CAD plan
Laser parts
Canopy

Price $165.00 plus $20.00 insured USA shipping.

[flystoolow]

Have you made your choice yet? I had always wanted a Sagitta, and by chance came across a fully built 600 and 900 earlier this year. I bought them both for $100........ouch, I know!

The 900 sports a 10/10 build, and flys unbelievably well. The other day we were sloping a low 30' slope along the waterfront. I stood down at the waters edge and marvelled at the Sagitta's ability. Dive down to just 4 feet above the ocean and follow the shoreline for 100', pull up, turn, and go back another 100' along the shore before easing it up the ridge to find a little lift. Not bad for a balsa bird. Such a nice flyer for a 15 year old plane!

...and how could you beat those looks!

Highly recommended