Sailaire question...

[greyhound flyer]

I have the DreamCatcher Sailaire plans, but no kit or construction manual.

What is the tailcone made of? Is it fiberglass? Is the fuselage 2 pieces mated together or one big unit (not the Yankees pitcher :D)? I'm comfortable doing lost foam, so maybe this is the way to go. I've also built truss fuses, too, so that's out there. What are your suggestions?

I also have ramin and oldgrowth fir that I can rip for spars. Ollie? Anyone?

Thanks,
--GF.

[djnibler]

The tailcone is rolled plywood. The fuse was 2 pieces... before it was glued together :)

You may know this already, but Dreamcatcher sold their kits to another company who is planning on re-releasing them in 2006. If you want to wait, you could get a short kit from them.

[greyhound flyer]

djnibler,

This is what I kinda thought, but thanks for clearing it up. I knew DreamCatcher had sold rights/tooling, etc., to other vendors, but I hadn't heard that the Sailaire was about to be re-release again (dept. of redundancy dept.). That's great! Maybe a short kit is in my future...

So back to the rolled plywood: Was it 1/64" or 1/32" birch?

Thanks,
--GF.

[djnibler]

Oh yeah, if you are building from scratch, you might consider another airfoil. I entered all the stats for the plane in the "Wind Tunnel Data Analyzer" a while ago and the 7037 beat the old flat-bottomed at all speeds. I figured it would beat it at all speads *except* for the slowest, slowest float, but it beats it there too, and by quite a bit. I always thought it would be funny to have a "sleeper" sailaire..... I wonder how high it would zoom ;)

Are you a PASS member?

[greyhound flyer]

I've also contemplated E214, ala Dodgson. Maybe the sailaire is too much of a gasbag for that one? Maybe also the K3311. If I could just understand those polars that Profili is spitting back out at me. :-)

I'm not a PASS member (yet), but I know several of the guys and Mike showed me how to cut cores and do bagging (before Phil's video).

Send me a PM...

[djnibler]

Boy, I can't tell you on the ply. I could send you some up-close photos of the end of my tailcone (it's open) if it would help. What I do know is that the tailcone of the Sailaire is a weak point on the plane. It's flimsy and allows the rudder and stabilizer to wobble around. The guy I bought mine from filled the cone with spray foam which helped, but it's still really wobbly. Flying it is kind of funny because you make a turn input and have to wait for the tail surfaces to use up all the slop, then it turns. It's like flying a wet fish but I love it. Just a different kind of flying.

If I were building the plane again, I'd probably roll my own boom out of carbon. I have never done it, but have read about it online.

[greyhound flyer]

Well, if the rolled tailcone is the weak spot, then I can just truss one. I recently made a GL that way and with a stock wing and HS81s under the wing, it weighs 18.5 oz RTF. It's almost too light, really.

Let me know when you're ready to roll a tailcone. I've done several the "O'Sullivan" way, and they work pretty well. Happy to help.

--GF.

[ChuckA]

I still have the Sailaire that I built in 1978 and can definitely say that the rolled plywood tail boom IS NOT a weak point. I talked to Roy Simpson a few years ago and he tried a fiberglass tailboom but gave up on it because of excess weight. I have owned two other Sailaires and the only problem I had was one developed longitudinal splits after about 20 years of flying. If I build another, I will probably apply some 1/2 oz glass cloth to alleviate the splitting problem.

I would not change the airfoil on the Sailaire. It's too much fun just floating from thermal to thermal. If I want more speed, I will fly my Compulsion. My best place in unlimited at the 1996 Nats was flown with my Sailaire after I lost my unlimited model the week before the Nats. I place'd 17th beat a lot of modern high tech sailplanes. I can't think of a better model for flying straight thermal duration as long as the wind stays below 10 mph. I don't fly the Sailaire any more except in Nostalgia at the Nats. I flew it twice last summer to see what I needed to do to get ready for the Nats. The model groved out in the launch and was in trim. I flew until I got tired on each flight and hit the spot on landing each time. Didn't need anything so I put it away. Didn't fly it at the Nats since I left after the first day of Unlimited.

[djnibler]

If the plane is on the ground and you grab your rudder, you can't wiggle it from side to side? This is what I meant by weak point. The tailcone isn't going to break or anything, it just doesn't provide a wiggle-free mount for the tail feathers.

[schrederman]

The boom is 1/32" rolled ply. I think I would roll it twice with 1/64 and overlap it some at the joint. I would feather the outer and glass it like Chuck said. Heck, keep it a flat bottom... use a 3014! Hehe!

Jack

[flyersailor]

Glad to see Chuck Anderson still arround. I still have my Sailaire that was built in 1977 with origional tail platform. The tail boom in not the weak spot. I have the origional wing with three wing wires and a forth wire at back of rib to better hold incidence. Historical note. Sailaire almost won spot on the 1976 FAI F3B US team. Rick Pearson pilot.
Bob Gill

[kamakasi]

tail cone is(was) 1/64" ply 2 wraps

[raschow]

Historical note. Sailaire almost won spot on the 1976 FAI F3B US team. Rick Pearson pilot.
Bob Gill

The F3B Internats back then was in 1977 (Amay, Belgium), I was there for a couple of days as a spectator. The year that the Austrians with their molded Dassels showed everybody the importance of the speed/distance tasks. A US pilot with a Sailaire would have been even more embarassing! Good Lift!

OOPS! - Amay was in 1979, so 1977 would have been South Africa, and the plane to beat was Skip Miller's (Miller modified) Aquila - the Sailaire might have had a chance! GL!

[carrinsr]

I just can't resist 2 cent's worth here, fellow Sailaire flyers. I sold mine last year (after 22 years of wonderful hour+ long flights and even a few landings by hand catches!), and I've been ROYALLY KICKING myself ever since. Soooo...this past week I purchased an original Sailaire full kit and an original already built Sailaire. I won't be without one again...may even get my wife to bury one with me just in case God allows sailplanes in heaven. I do fly other sailplanes, including the original Grauppner Cirrus (wonderful plane...launched 13 Saturdays in a row and on the first launch each Saturday I flew her for over an hour!) and the much more modern AVA (I bring her down each time after an hour because I get nervous over batteries). But hey, once a Sailaire thermaller always a Sailaire thermaller? Works for me! ...never noticed any weaknesses in the tail or anywere else...slow flyer yes, but put her nose down and she trucks! And I flew mine in winds well above 10 mph. And HIGH altitudes are NO problem for weak eyes! (o: -- Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! -- David