Dont Install Clearview [Archive]

Willard

Nov 03, 2005, 10:02 PM

I have deleted my original post and would like to replace it with the foolowing comments:

I began this thread because I wrongly assumed that the installation of clearview was responsible for problems I was having with my graphics card.

Thankyou to Steffan and everyone who has helped me understand that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a program to cause the corruption or failure of a graphics card or any other piece of computer hardware unless the program author wrote it specifically for this purpose.

Clearview is an exellent program, it was pure coincidence that the problems with my hardware arose at the same time I installed clearview and I am completely satisfied that the program was not responsible in any way.

If you are having any problems with running clearview please read on, there is some very useful information in this thread for troubleshooting the program.

If you are thinking about purchasing clearview, go ahead and give it a try :) it is an excellent program at an excellent price and Steffan provides great customer support from what I have seenon this forum.

I have every intention of reinstalling this proegram when I resolve my computer hardware issues.

Thanks!

Willard

Nov 03, 2005, 11:24 PM

....deleted...

skirtz

Nov 04, 2005, 02:16 AM

Edited...

I wrote ClearView RC Simulator and I am proud of it. Many thousands of people have tried the sim - I have 30,000 downloads on Download.com, not to count many many thousands of downloads from the ClearView web site http://rcflightsim.com I have received many letters of satisfied customers.

- Stefan
ClearView RC Flight Simulator (http://rcflightsim.com)

m.tustain

Nov 04, 2005, 04:02 AM

Yeah man i'd like to see you try and make something like that! You can't just blame that piece of software for your computer going bust. If you filled up with petrol and then your car wouldn't start would you blame the dodgy petrol?

If it was the software your the only one!

Malc C

Nov 04, 2005, 05:45 AM

I'm no expert, but have been around computers for several decades and I've never experienced any software causing physical damage to a PC, and over the years I've installed some iffy software from time to time :rolleyes:

Surely, if the code is so rough that it screws up the OpenGL drivers etc it simply stop running and a fresh re-install of the OS and graphics drivers is all that is required to resolve the issue. The only time I've experienced hardware crashes, its been down to other things like power spikes, fans stopping causing over-heating etc.

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 08:05 AM

...deleted..

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 08:52 AM

...deleted...

Malc C

Nov 04, 2005, 10:35 AM

I symapthise with you, its really anoying when this sort of thing happens, but equally, could you not be venting your anger towards Dell. I mean having a BIOS which includes a feature to monitor the hardware and shut it down if the system is overworked, which is also backed up by a utility in windows to do the same, both of which have failed by all accounts would suggest that the problem lies with (possibly equally) with Dell. I mean these protection methods are designed to shut down the PC in such a circumstance, and clearly it didn't and thus left the laptop un-protected.

I would also of though that the Stefan and his development team would of covered themselves against such liability in the form of the agreement T&C's as part of the installation, so I don't think that you are likely to get anything more from them than the apology alreay given.

rutat

Nov 04, 2005, 10:54 AM

The only situation that I am aware of (documented) where a software has corrupted hardware is the CIH - Chernobyl virus. It physically trashed hard drives. I'll spare you the technical explantion. I am not aware that there is any virus out there that could do the same to a GPU. And I will go as far as to say that t it is simply not possible for a commercial software program to do this. What may have happened is an incompatibility between the various Dell drivers and the stuff Clearview needed to install. Likely some DLL or subsystem call got its wires mixed up.

At this point, since you wiped out all the orginall firmware etc., a system restore is nit possible. Next time mioght I be so bold as to suggest you set a restore point before loading anything that is graphics intensive? If I were you, I'd roll ack the drivers and firmware to the last known good state and reload Halflife, etc.

FWIW, I've never been a fan of Smell Computer laptops.

L0stS0ul

Nov 04, 2005, 10:56 AM

Willard,

I have a dell inspiron 5150. I know it's not the same one as you but I have had a similar problem with my machine. We bought several of these here at my office and recently 2 of the machines started having graphics corruption as you describe. I just last week finally got my machine fixed. In the end dell replaced the motherboard 2 times, the video card 3 times, the ram twice, the processor once, and the lcd screen. We are still not sure which item fixed it. On the other machine dell was never able to fix the problem and ended up replacing the laptop with a new model.

In my case I was playing a game called City of Heroes when the laptop messed up. The other machine was playing Call of Duty. (we're big gamers here at my office heh). I'd really contact dell because the tech person that came out to fix our machines has seen this issue several times.

Good luck

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 10:57 AM

...deleted...

rutat

Nov 04, 2005, 11:01 AM

Lostsoul, check: http://p068.ezboard.com/fi5150usersfrm2.showMessage?topicID=23.topic

bluesky123

Nov 04, 2005, 11:03 AM

The topic of this thread should be changed to "Don't buy Dell"!

I know PC hardware quite well--have assembled dozens of PC, have half a dozen running at home. None of them is Dell, or any other "major brand" and none of them has ever experienced any kind of hardware problems (coffee spilled over a keyboard by my wife doesn't count)!

Unfortunately, at work (I am a C++ developer for a leading EM analysis software company) I have a brand new top of the line Dell workstation (Dual 3.2GHz Xeons with RAIDed HDs, 2GB DDR2, etc.), which died on me after only a couple of months. No, ClearView was not installed there. :)

So, stop blaming a piece of software on your hardware failure. If a piece of hardware fails after running some software, this hardware is a piece of crap!

Yes, ClearView has some weaknesses, but it has its strong points as well. I've had more problems with way more expensive simulators than I had with ClearView (after I replaced my Radeon 9600 video card with nVidia one, that is).

Boris

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 11:04 AM

...deleted...

skirtz

Nov 04, 2005, 11:24 AM

Do you know that changing OpenGL settings with a program running can lock the driver? Why not blame ATI for that as well. ClearView has nothing to do with your problem; Your video card was faulty and Dell recognized that.

Stefan

rutat

Nov 04, 2005, 11:33 AM

You have to remember that Dell has a habit of demanding custom GPUs from ATI. That sort of custom low level stuff is a recipe for problems.

Draconious

Nov 04, 2005, 11:36 AM

I have a toshiba that does similar graphics errors due to overheating, at least everyone thinks theirs fails due to heat... many many of the same model toshiba do this... prolly made by the same oem as the dells lol...

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 12:00 PM

deleted

peefiddyonefan

Nov 04, 2005, 12:06 PM

Hey all our PC's were running fine untill we installed Windows -now Bill is the richest man in the world :P

Mr Rowl

Nov 04, 2005, 01:08 PM

Whichever way you cut it YOUR PROGRAM LOCKED UP AND SIMULTANEOUSLY PUSHED THE GPU TO ITS LIMITS!!!!!!!

That's extremely unlikely. If clearview had locked up or crashed then it would have stopped sending data to the graphics card. The most likely thing is that your hardware fried itself because it's either badly designed, faulty or incorrectly installed, or the drivers are badly designed, faulty or incorrectly installed.

Thats still bad software. Even if it hadnt/didnt cook the graphics card, it is very bad for it anyone can tell you that and no doubt contributed to its demise.

There's no way that user-level (like Clearview) software can cook a graphics card. The only thing that it might do is expose a problem with the hardware/drivers. One of the major points of driver software (and operating systems in general) is that it insulates the hardware from the software.

I'm sure "anyone" can tell you anything you want to hear. However, in this case a number of professional programmers (including me) are telling you the problem is not with Clearview.

To use the petrol analogy...

... reveals you to not understand how software/hardware works. If you don't understand how stuff works it's rude and unproductive to shout accusations and threats (i.e. your liability stuff) everywhere.

Basically - your hardware broke (which I know is really annoying etc so I sympathise with you there) so:

1. complain to the manufacturer/supplier of the hardware - get a refund/replacement or vow to never by their stuff again

2. post a polite query here asking if anyone else had the same problem.

Malc C

Nov 04, 2005, 01:20 PM

ClearView has nothing to do with your problem; Your video card was faulty and Dell recognized that.

Stefan

Stefan,
That's a sweeping statement to make ! I don't think that anyone could with 100% certainty could say what it was that caused this problem. It could be just co-insidence that a hardware fault occured after installing and running Clearview. But equally on the otherhand there could be some "flakey" (and I mean that with the best posible taste as Kenny Everrite would say) code, DLL or OpenGL call that causes GPU / CPU loading, or some in-compatibility with Dell's own drivers.

Whilst Will was obviously miffed at this, and his original post may not of been as tactfull as it should of been, your approach to this mater, and your customer support seems a little lacking on this occasion.

Will,
Glad to hear you have the machine under warranty so at least you'll be able to resolve this issue at no cost, but it does raise the point that if the fans can't provide adiquate cooling whilst the CPU and GPU are running at 100% for a short period of time, then surely the machine is not up to the job it was intended for ?

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 02:30 PM

deleted

skirtz

Nov 04, 2005, 08:48 PM

Willard

Nov 04, 2005, 10:11 PM

I have the same notebook - Dell 8600 with ATI 9600 card.

Original configuration:
---------------------
Dell8600/ATI9600 original state+CleaView v. 4.12 = everything works fine

The new OEM Dell driver for ATI 8600 card for this notebook requires Bios and Flash Update, otherwise the driver will not install.

Modified configuration:
-----------------------------
Dell8600/ATI9600+Bios Flash Update+new DELL OEM Driver+ClearView . 4.12=screen freeze sometimes when mouse moved.

What is not changed is ClearView v. 4.12 – it is the same version, the same program in both cases.

Think about it – what is the cause of the problem?

Stefan
http://rcflighsim.com

You are probably right maybe it was just time for my video card to die.

If that is the case it would have happened sooner or later.

I apologise, It just made me so freakin angry. I wasted days trying to remedy the problem reinstalling this that and the other.

Good luck with the product steff

Will

skirtz

Nov 04, 2005, 11:05 PM

You are big man, Will. Let’s put it behind.

Thanks,
Stefan
http://rcflightsim.com

Uttam1

Nov 05, 2005, 03:28 AM

I don't want to start/pick up on anything now that all this is settled, but I've been running Clearview on my PC with a P4 3Ghz with a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 card, it runs flawlessly and I'm very, very happy with it. I'd love to see more planes now. Stefan, any comments on more planes?

-Thanks,
Uttam

Malc C

Nov 05, 2005, 06:20 AM

Glad to see you guys have shaken hands and made up...

Willard

Nov 05, 2005, 09:20 AM

Glad to see you guys have shaken hands and made up...

Yes I was out of line making those accusations and I apologise.

I play alot of video games with this notebook so I push the graphics card pretty hard all the time.

I wouldnt be suprised if its just not robust enough to handle it. One thing I did do last week is update the drivers and flash the bios.

Who knows if that had anything to do with it. I have my fingers crossed athe replacement card Dell is supposed to be sending will fix things.

But I will be reinstalling the previous release of bios and graphics card drivers jst to eliminate the possibility that the new ones had anyhting to do with it.

Thanks for everyones help

Will

rutat

Nov 05, 2005, 09:24 AM

Group hug.

Willard

Nov 05, 2005, 10:05 AM

:eek: :D feel the love

Now to let Dell know what I think ;)

skirtz

Nov 05, 2005, 11:42 AM

Bill, you may not need to do so (reverting the driver). Burning the midnight oil, I made new version of ClearView that runs without any problems with the new bios and the new dell driver. The freezing is absolutely gone. Smooth as silk. After some regression testing the new release will be out Sunday. I expect will work just fine with all ATI new drivers. Phew.... now I am relieved. Didn't like the freezing one bit.

Uttam,
I am working on adding "Import" function for FMS planes and Helicopters. Since there are hundreds of models on the net, I think this will get CV users most models for fastest time. The import will convert and create the geometry; There will be no moving flight surfaces, since FMS models have none. They may be user added later. The flight model will be set to be CV flight model, selected from may be 10 flight model templates. After that, the user can fine tune the model as he wants.
There is quite talented guy in Florida that is working now on some helicopters that I will post on my web sites for download.

I am also planning to post on the website some panoramas at high resolution for download.

rutat

Nov 05, 2005, 03:12 PM

http://www.illwillpress.com/tech.html NOTE: Profanity warning! But funny as all get out!

Willard

Nov 05, 2005, 07:37 PM

http://www.illwillpress.com/tech.html NOTE: Profanity warning! But funny as all get out!

That is toooo funny.

I just went through that last night, to be fair it was one of the least painful conversations Ive had with Dell tech support.

But that is because i think I know what is wrong so I told them what they want to hear.

If you cant work it out yourself first, you are SOL.

I called up once about something minor (I forget what and some Indian guy had me performing registry tweaks ?! to disable the paging file executive.

Smell..............

Uttam1

Nov 05, 2005, 10:34 PM

Stefan, thats great! Plenty of planes available for FMS. Would it be hard to write code to import planes from other flight sims, like G2/G3 or AF?

Keep up the great work!

-Uttam

skirtz

Nov 05, 2005, 11:24 PM

Uttam,

Can you open another thread to discuss ClearView features. This thread drive people away from trying ClearView with no reason. Very few will read to the end to find out they can actually install ClearView without their video cards going in smoke.

The title scares people from trying the sim.

Thanks,
Stefan

Uttam1

Nov 05, 2005, 11:54 PM

Done:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437718

Willard

Nov 06, 2005, 08:36 AM

moderator please delete this thread.

I was out of line and have apologised to Steffan, his product does not need this kind fo bad press

I am going to reinstall it when I get my videocard replaced to show that I have the upmost faith in his product (and send $30 his way of course so I can use it)

Malc C

Nov 06, 2005, 08:50 AM

Will,

I don't think the thread should be deleted. It shows that you had an issue, and the comments people made to resolve it. It also shows the issue between a version of the simulator and the drivers of a particular make of computer, and the steps taken by the developer of the simulator (Stefan) to resolve this conflict once and for all, which is proof that Stefan takes these issues on board and hears what his customers have to say. It is also handy for anyone with the same brand of computer who is experienceing the same issues of freezing, they can now see how to resolve this without frying their graphics card :)

skirtz

Nov 06, 2005, 11:37 AM

Will,

Can you please at least edit your first message, saying that the problem has been resolved? I have spent money advertising here on e-zone and since you posted this thread I have no sale from here.

The only way my product to exist is the good will of the community. I do believe ClearView provides is good simulator for reasonable price. I even fixed the driver problem and will release the new version today. I have this program as free download so anyone can try to install it and get a taste of it. If it does not work, people can just uninstall it. I have 15 days money back policy for anyone who purchase the program. I do not deserve bashing to that extent. No one from my potential customers, which are usually starting in this hobby, will read 50 messages with computer slang to find who says what. No one will benefit if I drop the development of this simulator.

Thanks,
Stefan

Malc C

Nov 06, 2005, 11:57 AM

Stefan, the only issue with editing the original post is that it then makes nonsense for the rest of the thread. Whilst I sympathise that the original post at the start of the thread is obviously not "good for business", this is a public forum for people to express their opinions. This thread is onlt 40 post (3 pages) long and I'm sure that any newbie will read through enough pages to get the jist of what happened and how it was resolved.

I'm sure that with-in the RC community word has spread enough now that when someone askes on this forum (or the spot forum, or RR for that matter) about a decent "free" simulator, Clearview will be recommended time and time again.

In a few weeks this thread will be dead and buried in the archives anyway, so your sales should then be back to normal.

skirtz

Nov 06, 2005, 12:26 PM

Opinion - yes, slamming somebody for no reason - no.

Will can add the resolution to the end of his first post, if he feels that this is right think to do. You may be enjoying the thread and I do not. You can not accuse some one on the front page and apologize on page 34 in the middle (newspaper analogy). Well, actually this happens all the time. Will have shown he is good and honest man, and I have nothing against him. I just want my product good name back.

Thanks,
Stefan

rutat

Nov 06, 2005, 01:00 PM

Take the high road, pal.

Willard

Nov 07, 2005, 07:40 PM

Willard

Nov 07, 2005, 07:44 PM

Do y'all want to hear something strange....

After 7 days of screen corruption on the dell splash screen, windows loading screen, and in any 3d application today the corruption dissapeared!?!

***? I ran the diagnostics tools on the memory and the video memory NOW PASSES all the read write tests.

Surely when memory on a video card is damaged, it is damaged full stop.

Heres the million dollar question; DELL are coming out wednesday to install a replacement graphics card.

What should I do? should I let them install it even though the old one is working just fine now; but then again who knows for how long?

arghhh :(

Just goes to prove Clearview had nothing to do with it. Im real sorry Steffan for any bad publicity I gave you .

Will

rutat

Nov 07, 2005, 07:53 PM

Take the new card.

skirtz

Nov 07, 2005, 09:05 PM

Willard

Nov 07, 2005, 09:55 PM

Take the card.

On a side note, go to http://rcflightsim.com and get version 4.13

Now it works like a charm on my notebook with the newest dell ATI driver. I also tried it on a spanking new HP 1250n Athlon 3800+ dual cpu with ATI 200 integrated and worksfine with default ATI driver. So it looks like v.4.13 will work with all NVIDIA and ATI drivers.

Nice work Steffan!

The only thing with taking the card is having the tech poking around inside the laptop might break something else.

Plus my experiences with these guys is you always end up with stripped screws and screwdriver marks where they pull the keybpoard out.

This time may be different and prove me wrong.

I guess I should take the card though, something caused the problem ,the diagnostics said it was the video memory so there is likely some kind of intermitttent fault with the card.

Anyone else got any thoughts?

Malc C

Nov 08, 2005, 04:59 AM

If the guy runs the same (or "enginering" version) diagnostic program first it will show that the memory has "repaired" itself and that there is no fault at the time of the visit. In the end the choice of having the laptop opened up and a new card fitted, or stick with what could be an intermittant fault is only one you can make... personally I would have the card replaced, and if the engineer damages the machine claim on Dells liability insurance !