Mig-29 Ub

[John Bright]

I am currently building a Mig 29 UB in a mix of styles. I am using a lot of JETSET's style plus some 3-D influence. This plane is about the same size as JETSET's F-15 and F18. It has a 33" wingspan and is about 42" long from nose to the end of the stabs. It is set up for a flaperon wing and full flying stab. I guess you could add rudders if you needed. All up weight should end up being about 18-19 oz. As it sits in these pictures it is 11.4 oz with two servos already in the plane. I am "CAD Dysfunctional" so there are no Jetset style of plans, but it did make drawings of the parts that I can scan full size at work once I clean them up if anyone is interested. I am going to use the Russian Swifts paint scheme so that should help with the weight. I am going to glass the wings, stabs, and nose for durability. I am going to put a Hacker A20-20L and will use an APC 9-6, which is about the largest prop that will fit without changing the shape of the stabs. The plane goes together with notches, which are covered up with the doubler sheets for a relatively smooth top.

[DCobra]

Looks good John...I'm getting ready to start on one of these as well, also in a Jetset44 style of build.

Glad to see it can be done, and still look true to scale. Do you have any pics of the bottom?

Paul

[John Bright]

Here are some of the build pics, I lost some because someone recorded over them. These pictures are before the doubler was added on the bottom to smooth it out

[TBolt]

Very nice! keep on posting, got to love it.

[DCobra]

Very cool! I'd sign on to build one of these from your design, but I've had my heart set on designing for the last 3-4 months waiting until after I got my F-20 design fully documented and plans released. Now I'm itching to get started on it...3 views are ready to go. I'll definitely be following your thread and looking forward to seeing your progress as well! Good choice on the Swift's scheme, thats gonna be a showstopper wherever you fly it.

For mine when it finally get's built I'm leaning towards a Blue/Gray splinter or blended camo scheme, but copying the Swifts scheme will be mighty tempting!

Good luck with it!


Paul

[John Bright]

DC I wish I had your forming skills with depron, would have been nice for the intakes/ nacelles. The scale ones twist and transition from square to oval and then round. I went and looked at two full scale Mig 29s they have in Quincy, to get a better idea, but couldn't find a easy way to build them. With your forming skills I'm sure you'll get it done right

[DCobra]

Thanks for the compliment John. It's really not as hard as it would seem... just takes some trial and error when it's being designed. Once the design is set, it's much easier to duplicate than it looks.

From here, the way yours look is more than adequate and would be perfect with a sanding on the edges to give them a more rounded shape towards the exhaust cans. Honestly I don't think I'd be able to form depron/ FFF to that kind of square to oval transition...the square would end up rounded too much unless it was done as two seperate halves then butt joined together and spackled.

The only other solution I can see is to use more foam layers at the rear of the plane to get the shape closer, but that adds complication and weight right where you dont need weight, and would kill any EDF conversion.

Thanks again for the compliment, but I thought you had formed the wing root to fuselage transition by bending foam? Sure looks that way...is it doubled foam sanded to shape?

You're lucky as heck to have two full scale MiG 29's! Quincy is in MA? I've been debating buying a plastic model of the MiG-29 to use as a reference so I can get it to come out as a hybrid of the Jetset and Thomas Nelson techniques using Steve's F/A-18 and Thomas' SU-27 as references.

I think you're on the right track though! Looks great!!!

Paul

[jetset44]

Looking GREAT so far, John! You've done a good job of capturing the scale looks with a simple to build structure. I'll look forward to seeing how this one turns out!

Steve

[Tc6]

John, great project!
The work you have done looks realy good.
After building JETSET's F-18 and F-14 (great designs) I think the MIG-29 will be the next aircraft to build.
How have you made the transition from the leading edge to the fuselage >any close-up pictures available ?

Carlo

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Great job John, I have done the SU-27 in several sizes from 30-36" with a Typhoon 15/10 and they are awesome flyers. Goof Luck on the maiden.

DAF

[RCParkflyer]

Hi John,

GREAT Job on the Mig!!! You can use a Free PDF creator to transfer plans into a PDF Document. http://www.pdf995.com/ I know several of the guys have used it in the past with good results. I'd love to host your plans on my website when your finished. www.parkjets.com/free-plans.html

[rafoo fighter]

That's funny, last days i also began a Mig 29 looking exactly yours.
I've done it with a three views plan.
Watch the pics :


http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9476/mig29perso1yk.jpg


http://img316.imageshack.us/img316/8396/mig29perso11pp.jpg


It doesnt look as well as yours but this is only the beginning.

[John Bright]

DC- The full scale Migs are in Quincy, IL. I live in Springfield, but Quincy is one of my wirecenters, and I was driving a fiber optics route when I came up to the airport and thought I 'd taken a really wrong turn. There was a whole squadron of Soviet block aircraft. Mig 25, Frogfoot, Mig 29's. I went in to check them out. They have about 23 aircraft I believe and the majority of them all fly. I think when they bought the aircraft the got the technicians also, because very few of them speak English.

Steve, thanks for the compliments, your planes are the bench mark everyone tries to meet.

TC-6, I 'll try and post all of the Pics I have with a little narrative. My pictures all come from my video camera that takes very poor quality pictures, but hey you use what you got!

Raffoo, I started with blown up three views from the Russian aircraft site everyone here uses, then changed the nose and canopy to make the UB model. Right now it is just rough sanded I still have a lot off smoothing and I need to scab on some afterburner cans on the sides of nacelles to give better definition to the motors.

[John Bright]

On this plane I tried to Murphy proof my self, no matter how hard I try I have a hard time getting a straight fuse. This one I could put it together look and then correct it by shimming or moving the notches. It is all 6 mm depron, because thats all I have. The doublers could probably be made of 3mm to save weight. It starts out as two sheets to make the wings and main body of the fuse. I used the long piece on the wings and the two short pieces on the forward and aft fuse. Even I can get these to line up!!. After cutting out the shapes and notches, I put a 1/64 lite ply plate under the bottom sides where the stab bearings go to spread the weight out to the nacelles and the rest of the aft fuse.

[John Bright]

The stab tubes are the same as Jetsets on the F-15, which I think are .157 carbon tube and a 3/16" aluminum tube. When I layed out the fuse I made a center line on the top and bottom, since you always seem to need that reference, and they would be covered up anyway. I squared off of the center line, so hopefully I would get the stabs right also, since I was working on a flat surface. I did put a 1/64' shim between the 2 stab supports to keep my v-groove level. The next picture shows the .21 carbon tube installed the same way.

[John Bright]

I next temp installed the fuse sides into the notches with a piece of paper between the fuse sides and the wing/ fuse assy. This allowed me to get a pattern for the upper doubler. After getting the pattern and removing the paper, I glued the fuse sides and bulkheads in place and installed the doublers (3/8" x 6mm) all around the inside of the fuselage. The bulkheads are tapered at the top to help with the illusion and to help get it round. I then cut and glued a 3/8" x 6mm strip to the outside joint between the fuse sides and the wing/fuse assy. I angle cut this strip to give more glue area also. This will allow the top doubler to sit at an angle to get the shape and thickness I was looking for.

[John Bright]

From looking at that last picture you can see all of the notches that are cut. The fuse sides, vertical stabs, inboard and outboard nacelles fit into notches. If you can build straight without them by all mean leave them out, but they are all covered anyway, so it is like having an extra hand when you are assembling. The next step was putting on the top doublers, when I cut them out I made a left and right and leaned my knife over on the cut against the fuse sides so the edges would fit better, if it doesn't that's what they make filler for. The outside was cut ball park close, I pinned the doubler in place then turned the plane over and traced the shape for the LEX's form the bottom piece. You have to notch the outside to clear the forward notch for the vertical stabs, then run to the inside of the vertical stabs. Since I already had them cut out it was easy to get the reference point. This is where I think 3mm foam would have been easier. Trying to get the doubler, which goes from just in front of the stabs to the end of the LEX's to glue and stay down was less than pleasant. But it can be done, either with a heat gun or patience.

[John Bright]

The bottom of the plane is still flat at this point, to it is easy to glue the vertical stabs inplace now. They are canted out at about 5%. I made a template cut at that correct angle and glued them in place. The real aircraft vertical stabs are completely out on the edge of the aft fuse. The wing and stabs both have anahedral(sp). Keeping with the "KISS" principle mine are both flat. With the v/stabs canted out and my h/stabs being flat, I was afraid the there would be interference. I moved my stabs in 6mm from the outboard edge. I glued in a filler strip of you guessed it 6mm foam. This brings up the thickness in the aft fusealge and also helps to brace the v/stabs.

[John Bright]

Next were the horizontal stabs. I installed the carbon tube and the control horn(drilled out servo arm) into the aluminum tubes, but did NOT glue the control horn. I cut the v-grooves for the two stabs and test fit everything to get it lined up. I put 1/64" ply shims under the middle of the aft fuse and both stabs to get everything level, and also wax paper, and expoxied them into place and weighted everything down until it was dry.

[John Bright]

If you were to use a 10mm sq. type motor mount for a Hi-Max or something like it now would be the time to install it while the bottom is still flat, then all you would have to worry about getting straight would be right to left. I am using the radial mount that came with my Hacker motor. The 10mm mount would be easy to install under the the single sheet thickness left behind the stab rod area. The conrol horn does not protrude below the thickness of the 6mm foam. I dont know if that would cause the motor to hang down too low though. I would probably mount it on top, carrying it right up to the back of the stab tube, when all is said and done there is 18mm of depron back there that should support it fine, or recess it into all three.

[DCobra]

Wow John....great work.
Interesting technique of angling the foam for the fuselage to aid in rounding... it's amazing how each new parkjet can improve on the techniques used on previous models.

I'm going to have to make sure next time I get out to the midwest that I make a stop at the museum in Ohio.

Great stuff! Keep it coming!

Paul

PS - And I know what you mean about getting a straight fuselage...I've yet to get one straight on 7 different parkjet builds!

[John Bright]

If all went right building it flat like this, the stabs, wings and LEX's are all in the same plane, which for me is most of the battle. I also cut the flaperons free at this time while it was still flat on the bottom. Now it time for the intakes. I must admit when I was taking measurements from the 3-view drawing that were blown up 420% to get the full size for this plane, I forgot to subtract the thickness of the bottom of the intake, rather than re-cut them I just put the intake bottom in between the sides, no big deal. I placed the inboard and outboard nacelle sides in their notches with no glue and pinned the intake bottom in place, then just un-pinned one side at a time, and glued them with UHU, so I could adjust them as I pinned it back together. After it was dry I then removed the nacelle assy and glued in the doublers (3/8"x6mm strips) for support and for sanding to the correct contour.

[John Bright]

Now is where my build pictures got recorded over by my Daughter at her horse show. The bottom of the fuse is covered in 4 pieces. One from the front of the LEX's to the front of the intakes, one on each outboard side of the nacelles back to the stabs, and one between the intakes. Before I glued on the intakes I put a sheet of paper between the bottom of the fuse and the nacelles to get a pattern for the lower doubler or tripler if you will. I re-installed the nacelles back into their notches over the paper and took my trusty sharpie, and traced the nacelle contour onto the paper, instant pattern for the inboard side. I cut the outboard, again to ball park size. Now you can glue the intakes into place. I then glued on the doubler from the front of the LEX's to the front of the intakes. Next I did the outboard side pieces, first pinning them in place to get the outside shape from the pieces above it, cut to size and glued. Then the center piece which was cut at an angle on both long sides to make sure it mated with the inboard sides of the naccelles. After looking at it for a while I went ahead and put some short pieces in each intake so you wouldn't notice the step.

[John Bright]

I am installing the elevator servo in the bay between F4 and F5 on top of the fuse( there is a hatch there for access) with the control rod exiting right out of the back of the upper fuse in front of the stab control horn, at least I hope it does. I went ahead and put a z-bend in a piece of music wire cut long enough to get past the servo. Getting the wire into the control arm takes a little wrangling but it's not to bad, then thread it through the aft fuselage to the servo. I cutout a place for the elevator servo in the first layer of foam to set the servo in to help brace it along with some hot melt glue. I then placed the last of the doublers on the upper aft end of the fuse in two pieces.

[beanie]

awesome job! keep up all the photo documentation!
if you're interested, may be able to help out transfering to CAD after you get everything worked out.
-beanie

[John Bright]

Now it is time to start shaping and sanding and sanding. I made the nose out of a couple of 2" thick pieces of Blue Dow rigid foam, and the upper part of the canopy out of the same thing. The lower part of the canopy is just 6mm depron. The canopy will have a couple of short pieces of left-over cabon rod to hold down the front and magnets on the back. The receiver and elevator servo cover is cut at an angle and is wedged in under the fixed piece of the upper fuse to the front of it which has the recieving angle at the end of it. The back will hold down with magnets. Now you are all caught up. I am still trying to find a decent or at least unobtrusive way to mount the aileron servos and avoid any extra linkage that will allow room for slop. I am not sure if I am going to mount the speed control inside one of the intakes or just leave it out in the open in between them. I'll work on getting the plans cleaned up and up loaded, but the boss says not until I have all of those blankety-blank pieces of foam picked up.

[John Bright]

That's it for me tonight, that marathon game last night wore me out.

[Chris_K]

John,

Beautiful work! It's about time we had a Mig-29 parkjet out there. Great!

Chris

[Rudi]

John,

Beautiful work! It's about time we had a Mig-29 parkjet out there. Great!

Chris

Sorry Chris,
I must correct you, I build mine a long time ago (apr. 2-3 years) with two edf 50 and RTFW 340 Gr. Its only forgotten here , but there must exist an old thread about it ;)

Rudi

[RCParkflyer]

Sorry Chris,
I must correct you, I build mine a long time ago (apr. 2-3 years) with two edf 50 and RTFW 340 Gr. Its only forgotten here , but there must exist an old thread about it ;)

Rudi

Like this? You can look up every thread you startd in your profile section.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85158

Did you build that Mig from plans, or 3-views?

VERY Nice EDF ParkJet anyways :)
Tom

[Chris_K]

Rudi,

When I'm thinking of a parkjet in this context, I mean a pusher, not EDF. In any case, that's a very nice little plane. I always thought the Mig-29 was one of the most attractive aircraft.

Regards,
Chris

[John Bright]

Rudi,
I didn't know you had already built a Mig-29 before, I have only been following this forum since about February of this year. Yours is beautiful, wish I would have seen your thread I might have changed the way I built mine. I have been mostly a "Glider Guider" since the 70's, but it's getting hard to find a place to fly that is close. I can fly these parkflyers 1 block away at the park.

I glassed the bottom of the wings and stabs last night. Will do the tops tonight. Figured out where to mount the flaperon servo's and have the motor mount ready to go.

[John Bright]

Rudi, I have a couple of questions. In the first post of this thread, I have a picture of the paint scheme of the Swifts. This picture shows grey in the top middle of the fuselage. Most of the pictures I see have Red there. Is one an older paint scheme. Also where did you place your CG? Thanks.

[Fulcrum]

Hi all,


I agree with Rudi there is long time ago that depron mig-29 exist.

there is the one beautiful of Rudi as soon as January 2003 and also mine. I showed some of mine as pusher in april 2004 and they of course flew from that time.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2095828&postcount=156


and had some occasion to show them on other thread


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=223093

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3063094&postcount=20


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3063103&postcount=21

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3063195&postcount=26

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3063237&postcount=27

and very recently here October 9th 2005

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4419765&postcount=25

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4420977&postcount=28

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4423358&postcount=32




http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4435579&postcount=38




And excuse me but your mig 29 curiously seems like mines in building process apart it is the ub version

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4435579&postcount=38


Nevertheless your ub version is beautiful

bye and good work

[John Bright]

Let me say here and now that I never claimed to be the first to build a Mig-29 Fulcrum, or that I had any revolutionary new way of building, just a way I found easier to build for me . I have mixed building techniques from planes I have built in the past, from people on this forum like Steve (Jetset), J. Morgan, Jerry Hall and Appie from the Netherlands, and even some from 3-D Foamy since I am currently flying a version of the Extra 330 built from their free downloaded plans.

I am an airplane junkie and have been since I can remember, and have spent most of my adult life working on military jets. I have actually seen the "Swift's perform at an airshow, and this plane has been on my build list for a while. The only reason I am posting about this plane is to try and give a little something back to this forum. I am not going to sell the plans when I get them finished, they will be out there for free to whoever would want to use, modify or use for birdcage liner. This is my first build post or attempt at it, and my hat's off to you guys who do it on a regular basis. It takes alot of work and time.

Off the soapbox, the top of the wings and stabs are glassed, and I am down to the 400 grit sanding. I will start installing the electronics in the morning.

[RCParkflyer]

Hi John,

I think your doing great!!! Regardless of who did what and when, this hobby and the RCG forum are all about sharing our knowledge and ability with everyone. The great thing about sharing your build threads and designs with everyone, is that we all learn new tips and building techniqies, and we all get to fly some of the greatest jets in the world!!

Tom

[DCobra]

Let me say here and now that I never claimed to be the first to build a Mig-29 Fulcrum, or that I had any revolutionary new way of building, just a way I found easier to build for me . I have mixed building techniques from planes I have built in the past, from people on this forum like Steve (Jetset), J. Morgan, Jerry Hall and Appie from the Netherlands, and even some from 3-D Foamy since I am currently flying a version of the Extra 330 built from their free downloaded plans.

I am an airplane junkie and have been since I can remember, and have spent most of my adult life working on military jets. I have actually seen the "Swift's perform at an airshow, and this plane has been on my build list for a while. The only reason I am posting about this plane is to try and give a little something back to this forum. I am not going to sell the plans when I get them finished, they will be out there for free to whoever would want to use, modify or use for birdcage liner. This is my first build post or attempt at it, and my hat's off to you guys who do it on a regular basis. It takes alot of work and time.

Off the soapbox, the top of the wings and stabs are glassed, and I am down to the 400 grit sanding. I will start installing the electronics in the morning.


Even if you had thought you were the first to build a MiG-29, it would be understandable. When I started contemplating modeling the MiG-29 a few months ago, it was the one modern fighter jet that I hadn't seen previously done here, and I did actually wonder why as it is a very aesthetically pleasing aircraft.
I guess it was just forgotten about for a while :D

Great work so far John... now Im not sure whether to build my own or just build yours instead!

Paul

[Chris_K]

Paul, I'm with you. I've been watching these forums like a hawk for someone to present a Jetset44 style pusher Mig-29. There simply wasn't one. Other kinds of model such as EDF, sure. But not a version really comparable to the existing collection in size, powerplant, weight, performance, and construction. Thanks for taking on this project, John. I look forward to seeing your plans or drawings when you're ready to share. I'm not trying to ignore the models designed by Rudi and Fulcrum, but want to encourage John to keep going down this track. The more variations that are out there, the more options all of us have.

Regards,

Chris

[RCParkflyer]

Great work so far John... now Im not sure whether to build my own or just build yours instead!

Paul
Build your own, too :) I've got 3 F-16 plans, 3 F-22 and 3 (T-38 F-5 F-20) plans and so on, none are the same, and people enjoy having build options :)

[John Bright]

Paul, I am going to scan the parts drawing at work Monday, and I'll send them to you to use for developing yours. I have already thought of a few changes I would make. First would be to use angled spars like Steve did on his F-18 or possibly a wing built like Levi's Super extra kit, with the layers of foam. Using a straight spar there is a lot of wing on either side of it. I fiber glassed the wings, and used WBPU and cloth on the stabs. It stiffened the wings up nicely but there is the weight penalty. The second change would be to move the elevator horn to one side over a nacelle and mount the elevator servo inside an intake. Would make it easier I think for a stick mount. Third, with your forming skills I would use 3mm foam for the doubler on top with possibly ribs or formers underneath. I would leave the bottom one 6mm for strength. It would also make a good area to route the aileron servo wires to get the into the fuse.

We both seem to have the same taste in planes, We were both building F-100's at the same time, now it's the Mig

[RCParkflyer]

NICE F-100!!!!!!!! Like Steve said the other day I'm not Worthy :) that is sweet looking

[RCParkflyer]

Paul, I'm with you. I've been watching these forums like a hawk for someone to present a Jetset44 style pusher Mig-29. There simply wasn't one. Other kinds of model such as EDF, sure. But not a version really comparable to the existing collection in size, powerplant, weight, performance, and construction. Thanks for taking on this project, John. I look forward to seeing your plans or drawings when you're ready to share. I'm not trying to ignore the models designed by Rudi and Fulcrum, but want to encourage John to keep going down this track. The more variations that are out there, the more options all of us have.

Regards,

Chris

Amen Chris!!!!

[Fulcrum]

Hi,

Sorry, surely i was a little bit too much reactive.

I agree with all you guys that we have to learn from each others and to share our creations.

John really I find your mig-29 very fine and indeed the principle of that mig-29 seems a parkflyer and of course mine is not ( with 800g weight in flight, rather similar in spirit of Haldor mig-29) and I guess that one of Ruddi too. So we will have the benefit to have at disposable several version of Mig-29 for different kind of flying.

I have to say here that I did an evolution of the taileron joint on my mig-29 by applying the Ruddi's technique i.e. taileron directly on the servo axis. Ruddi gave me some detailed picture of its mechanism. Now I always do that way and it works perfectly even on a 90cm wingspan depron mig-29. i write that only to admit that all we profit of the idea of others. I have also to say that I enjoy of Steve's F-18 and F-15 for which I modified the wings with airfoil to improve stability of these aircrafts at high speed and in windy weather.

In the principle of sharing our experience I will soon also propose the plan of my mig-29 and post a build thread. As I don't know using CAD I will make scan my templates as pdf and bmp file format. From bmp file format a buddy said me that he can obtain a dxf file format. So this will be a mig-29 with LEXs and wings airfoil for a mega 16/15/4 or 16/15/5 powerplant under 3s lipo.

It is also in that spirit of technique sharing that I made a post on our (David and buddies) vaccum molding technique http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365962
Concerning that project I have to say to Tom Nelson that we are stopped by the lack of butyl joint, but I recently find a purchaser in my area!! and I will follow to mold the under part of the SU-27!!!



I would like also to say that the F-100 is very beautiful


Ok friendly, bye

[DCobra]

Paul, I am going to scan the parts drawing at work Monday, and I'll send them to you to use for developing yours. I have already thought of a few changes I would make. First would be to use angled spars like Steve did on his F-18 or possibly a wing built like Levi's Super extra kit, with the layers of foam. Using a straight spar there is a lot of wing on either side of it. I fiber glassed the wings, and used WBPU and cloth on the stabs. It stiffened the wings up nicely but there is the weight penalty. The second change would be to move the elevator horn to one side over a nacelle and mount the elevator servo inside an intake. Would make it easier I think for a stick mount. Third, with your forming skills I would use 3mm foam for the doubler on top with possibly ribs or formers underneath. I would leave the bottom one 6mm for strength. It would also make a good area to route the aileron servo wires to get the into the fuse.

We both seem to have the same taste in planes, We were both building F-100's at the same time, now it's the Mig


John - Great looking F-100!!!
I think you may have confused me with Fuelsguy... he recently built an F-100 using alot of hot water formed depron technique.

All - Well if you guys are going to encourage me to go for another MiG-29, I may just have to do it. When I saw John Bright's MiG coming together I decided to move on to something else so John's great work wouldn't have to share any spotlight. I'm still not sure that I can improve on what John has done. Since John took more of a Jetset44 approach, I may go with more of a Thomas Nelson approach with more lamination and sanding. I think that will provide builders with the option of going for an easier build that looks very scale or going for a more time consuming build that is almost dead on to scale. More options for all of us... providing I can do it justice! :D

Lastly, this will be a couple months project... I've got parts for one parkjet at the moment and those are commited to my half-finished build of Steve's F-14...if my budget permits more parts purchases I'll tentatively be ready to fly this one by Christmas.

Paul

[Fulcrum]

DCobra,


If you plan to scratchbuild a mig-29 in the spirit of Tom Nelson laminating and sanding technique, could it be not redondant with GAD mig-29? At least you will dispatch freely the plan!

In fact I Think I am curious of what kind of mig-29 you would elaborate.

Personnaly I think that as John did a mix technique comprising sanding and depron sheet assembly is surely the best way to keep an easy building process with a good scale aspect as did at home with me my Buddy P'tit Louis from my mig-29 templates. He recognized that the radom could have been better in shape. Personnaly I will build my next depron mig-29 following that process. All the process is very simple and very cheap and I think the result not bad at all regarding scale aspect but here I could be not impartial.


JLuc

[beanie]

paul-
i'm 110% behind you! go for it! more options = more fun! heck, i'll build everyone's mig-29 ifthe plans are freely available :)
-beanie

[John Bright]

Paul sorry about that, I guess Alzthiemer's is setting in early. Your F-20 is awsome.

Fulcrum, no hard feelings here I just didn't want this thread getting like that "Miss FanFold thread". I did see the thread of your friends vacuum molding the Mig 29 and I think a SU-27, way out of my league and budget. They are doing awsome work, and I read your thread about the Haldor Mig -29, again way out of my league in both building and flying ability. I like them quite a bit slower!!!, just like me!

Beanie, when you use CAD is there a way to mirror objects like down a center line, on things that have curves when I draw them by hand I never seem to get the shape identical, so at my Daughter's suggestion I use the "Paper Doll" method. I fold the paper in half and the crease is my center line, then I cut out half and unfold it. On the patterns I have for this I just traced the parts I had cut out. I can transfer the bulkead, and spar locations to that sheet and just send that out for you to work with. I just don't want to send out something that isn't correct or is mis-matched.

I am in the process of lengthening my motor leads after reading the thread on that, I am going to try and borrow my brothers Digital camera to get some better pictures.

[beanie]

hi john,
yes there definitely is a mirror function. what cad program are you using? i am familiar with both autocad 2000 and turbocad, but not the others, but i'm sure almost any cad program will allow you to mirror. you can usually mirror about a single point or a line. its a great easy way to make sure everything is symmetric. i usually do my designing as half of a plane and then mirror it to make sure everything is equal on both sides.
-beanie

[John Bright]

Beanie, I bought Turbocad, but haven't had time to really sit down and learn it. I just finished installing the servos, speed control, and motor. Took longer than I thought. I spent most of yesterday and about 1/2 of today sanding it. It is starting to look the part now. The fiberglass on the wings blew my weight budget, It is at 20.3 oz with everything in it or on it, haven't hinged the flaperons yet so just stacked them on. This plane is a little bigger than Steve's F-15 as far as wingspan, and I think you figure in the LEX's when you figure wing area, so hopefully the wing loading will stay low. The motor mount is 1/8" liteply for the mount area and the frame is CA soaked balsa. I will shape a foam fairing for it later. I put the speed control in the intake, I still need to wrap the battery leads with foil, not sure if need to wrap the motor leads also. If any one has moto-calc or something that could figure the thrust for a Hacker A20-20L with and APC 9x6 and 10x4.7 using a Kokam 3S-1500 I would really appreciate it. Here are some more, and hopefully the last poor quality ones. Got to get to the plans now so I can scan them in the morning.

[John Bright]

Here is the mounting for the aileron servo's, not too obtrusive.

[Esprit440]

Nice work on the MiG John. Your profile pic caught my eye too - are you a JASDF enthusiast?

-Matt

[DCobra]

DCobra,


If you plan to scratchbuild a mig-29 in the spirit of Tom Nelson laminating and sanding technique, could it be not redondant with GAD mig-29? At least you will dispatch freely the plan!

In fact I Think I am curious of what kind of mig-29 you would elaborate.



JLuc

JLuc,

I never really thought about whether I'd be taking business away from GAD.
I'm not aware that they post free plans of their retail aircraft? I guess if I were to start selling pre-cut parts and assembly instructions then it might be redundant, but not in the case of just posting the plans freely. I'm also curious as to how close I can get to scale with this plane. I think I am finally at a level of skill and knowledge of various building techniques to pull it off... it's just a matter of how much time will be invested.

Paul

[DCobra]

paul-
i'm 110% behind you! go for it! more options = more fun! heck, i'll build everyone's mig-29 ifthe plans are freely available :)
-beanie

Thanks beanie...and you can bet the plans will be free...so get some depron stocked :D If I can finish Steve's F-14 this week, and get paint applied to 3 different planes I may start bashing the 3 views by next weekend :D I'll probably end up buying a MiG-29 plastic model as well so I can have a 3 dimensional reference.

@ John Bright... no apology needed...it was actually a compliment to be mistakenly credited for Fuelsguy's awesome work on the F-100.
Thanks for the kudos on the F-20 as well! I'm really liking the picture you just posted of the front view of your MiG...it looks like it would be right at home pulling cobra manuevers! Great work!

Paul

[RCParkflyer]

JLuc,

I never really thought about whether I'd be taking business away from GAD.
I'm not aware that they post free plans of their retail aircraft? I guess if I were to start selling pre-cut parts and assembly instructions then it might be redundant, but not in the case of just posting the plans freely. I'm also curious as to how close I can get to scale with this plane. I think I am finally at a level of skill and knowledge of various building techniques to pull it off... it's just a matter of how much time will be invested.

Paul

GAD isn't selling the Mig-29 at the present time (last time I looked) If you can scale it up to size for the option of twin microfans, that would be cool. Just checked, and it's still under "Re-Development" and it's been that way for almost a year now :(

[John Bright]

Matt, I used to work with the JASDF when I was in the Air Force at Kadena. I can speak Japanese ( helps when your wife is Japanese) so I would get sent on the advance team when ever we would fly training exercises up on the mainland. Went to several bases there, they are a great bunch of guys, and excellent technicians. Have finished the parts/plans except for labeling, I print them up on the computer since my handwriting is so poor.

[Fulcrum]

The most difficult to be close to mig-29 scale is to reproduce quite accurately the LEXs shape which in fact are very complex and it was for long time a mystery for me. I think that monthes after monthes of trying to catch that complex shape at the closer, I got a not too bad results with the very easy bending technique of depron sheet 3mm. It allow to get a very light mig-29 and avoid to superposed several layers of foam which finally add weight.

I agree with you Paul that it takes very long time to scratchbuild and test the aircraft in flight. As i said it in a previous post it took me almost 2 years and at least 4 mig-29 before to get a very reliable result, not only in the flying ability, but also in the durability of the depron airframe covered by "Craft" paper and vinylique glue.

My last mig-29 below weight in flight with 3s PQ 2500xp lipo 750g and the thrust is 760g with a Mega 16/15/5 and APC"E" 7x5 propeller. This make a very interesting flying mig-29 heavy enough to fly in windy weather (I flew yesterday my mig with horizontal wind sock, almost stormy wind! it was a challenge with buddies. the most difficult was the landing), rather speed and with goo vertical climbing and very stable in flight in unwindy weather owing to the autostable airfoil of the wings. I can also maintain high AOA flying attitude with nose at almost 20 to 30° and a lot of electrons cosumption before rending the hand on stick and take again high speed. After that two years of developpment, not always with good success at the beginning, and some time really not good jokes of buddies, finally some of that club veterans buddies and new members want to build my mig-29 and at different scale from 66 cm to 1 m wing span. The building process even allow some crashes with easy replacement of the front part (correspond to the radom and nose until canopy) as it was unfortunately the case for me with my next to last mig. It got two vertical crashes due to transmitter antenna problem but with two replacement, which took 1 hour each, it always flies good one year later and ten of flights.

We developped our small aircraft vaccum molding technique on the David's canopy molding technique because i was very motivated to get a better scale Mig-29 from a master. As i sollicitated Tom Nelson we finally improve our experience of the technique on Tom's SU-27 master especially made for this occasion. The upper part of the fuselage is already good as a second trial. The Su-27 wit several recessive angle is difficult to mold it will not be the case with mig-29. The only difficulty with the mig is that the LEXs plan is not in the Wing plan. it requires to make a platform sole comprising that angle to support vaccum "pressure" without crushing the master and finally it is not so easy for me to find the good and reliable solution to be sure before the assay not to crush the master which demanded me a lot of work.

I hope that in some monthes we will have at disposal the molded SU-27 and the mig-29 at the about same wingspan i.e. around 66 cm (exact choosen wingspan of the molded mig-29 because it is the wingspan of my mig-29 and I know exactly what powerplant to use to get very efficient mig-29. for Tom's Su-27 of course we know also what powerplant to use, mega 16/15/4 or 16/15/5 under 3s lipo). At the mig-29 scale choosen I calcultated that it would be possible to put two EDF of 55mm in diamater like Vasa fan or GWS without lips. It is also one of my project to build that molded EDF version of 66 cm wingspan but also, from a new master cut by CNC by specialized buddies, a 90 wingspan version for two wemo 480 and Mega 16/15/2.

JLuc

[Fulcrum]

Hi,

Here I draw a line to show the evolution of the apex shape from my next to last mig and the last one.

[Fulcrum]

Sorry :o I would like to write there is no real difference in flight between the two mig due to the differnce in LEX shape ;) .

Jluc

[DCobra]

Fulcrum,

Thank you for detailing the evolution of your MiG-29 designs...I could never guess this is your favorite aircraft :p I can definitely see a difference in the LEX shape between the two versions, the German gray aircraft looks much closer to scale.

It looks like it will be an exciting challenge to design. I see the biggest challenge will be getting the LEX shape correct, getting the intakes/engine nacelles to transition from rectangular to round at the outlet, and getting the tail area correct. I'm not too worried about the tail, after all, a prop hanging off the back isn't very scale either :D

I just want to say that it's about time this jet got the attention it deserves on here!

Paul

[John Bright]

I scanned the plans at work today but apparently it left off the last 2 inches or so. I don't know if it was just too big or what, but I'll try it again tomorrow. The back end is square and if you used one of the nacelle pieces you could get a reference mark from that. It is 1 7/8" from the back of the stab tube to the end of the plane. Beanie, can you look at these and see if you can do something with a drawing like this, or do I need to sit down and learn TurboCad. The SR-71 was drawn up in concept on a cocktail napkin, so I hope I'm a little ahead of that!! Can't get much done tonight door bell keeps ringing with the trick or treater's.

[beanie]

hey john,
looks good. i just took img2cad software and converted if from pdf to jpg to cad. comes out nicely. just needs to be scaled. you pretty much got all of the hard stuff done. in my lowly opinion, it is well worth the effort to learn cad, esp if you plan on designing future planes. its a little bit of a pain to learn, but now, i can't imagine what i was doing before i learned cad. there are so many tools available that will make life so much easier and more accurate. i hear ya on the door bell ringing :)
-beanie

[Chris_K]

Guys,

Could you please do a tiled PDF too? Thanks in advance.

Chris

[RCParkflyer]

The first Mig-29-UB hosted on Parkjets.com :)
www.parkjets.com/mig-29-jb.html

[John Bright]

I would hold up on printing any plans yet, I think Beanie is trying to doctor them up and make them a little more presentable, also when I scanned them it left off the last 2" of the plans. I re-scanned them at work today and got the entire plan this time, but I didn't check the disc that a buddy burned for me before I went home and the disc isn't reading. Will try it again. I am hinging the flaperons and finishing the motor mount fairing and hopefully will start paint tonight.

[beanie]

hey john,
i can convert it over very easily with the program... it doesn't even really need any of my input. i can convert it to cad and send it back to you. or you can convert it self if you download the free program img2cad.
-beanie

[John Bright]

Beanie, I am downloading IMG2CAD now, you say to convert it from PDFto JPG then to DWG?

[beanie]

sorry john, i should clarify. it converts jpg to cad. you'll need acrobat to convert pdf to jpg. (or at least, that is how i do it)
-beanie

[Rudi]

Rudi, I have a couple of questions. In the first post of this thread, I have a picture of the paint scheme of the Swifts. This picture shows grey in the top middle of the fuselage. Most of the pictures I see have Red there. Is one an older paint scheme. Also where did you place your CG? Thanks.

Hello John,

thx, sorry I don#t know it exactly anymore, but in the old thread there must be a drawing about the CG. In fact that I build flaps on mine (more lift) my CG moved a littlebit.

regards

Rudi

P.S. sorry for delay, but we haa a long weekeend here in austria ;)

[John Bright]

I posted the rescanned plan that has the whole sheet on it where the original was, RCParkflyer you might want to change the one on your site. Started painting last night got all of the white shot, went out to look this morning, looks like a whole swarm of Chinese beetles decided to nest in my paint job, At least 4 of the buggers got stuck and died, there is some justice!!!. Resanded tonight and fought with the PDF to get it on here. Hopefully will get white and blue shot tomorrow.

[RCParkflyer]

New plans are up in the site, Thanks John!!!!!! They Look GREAT!!

[John Bright]

Chris K.,

I don't know how to tile plans, if anyone can please feel free to do so, or if you need the original or something let me know and I'll send it to you. I have the white and blue shot on and have the grey and decals to go yet, hopefully tomorrow night.

[DCobra]

John,

I resized the originals to an E sized sheet, then tiled them and sent both to Tom to post on rcparkjets.com :D

I'm presuming thats what you were looking for.

Paul

[RCParkflyer]

I've got them posted, but I had an error in opening the non-tiled one, so if someone can check and see if it's working properly, I'd appreciate it :)

[John Bright]

Paul, thanks for doing the tiled version, RC I checked the full size one opened for me.

[RCParkflyer]

Cool, thanks John!! I think the Parkjets server just locked up on me for some reason. Good to hear it's ok :)

[RCParkflyer]

when you checked Was there a New file update date of 11/04/05 on the website page? This is a different file name then the origional, and it's still locking up on me. You might have to refresh your screen to see the update.

[John Bright]

I just tried again after refreshing and it opened fine, I didn't try the tiled version. I got to get to work.

[Hans-Joachim]

I´m just back from work :) and will try the tiled version ;)

HJ

[Hans-Joachim]

It works!
but Tom, have you done a reset on your website counter?

[DCobra]

Paul, thanks for doing the tiled version, RC I checked the full size one opened for me.

You're welcome John.... the plans look great and I'm glad to see this one go public! Where are the builders? :D

Paul

[RCParkflyer]

It works!
but Tom, have you done a reset on your website counter?

Hi hans,

No I didn't do it, the Company Andale, is having big problems and I think I lost all the counter data :( oh well...

Tom

[Hans-Joachim]

Hi hans,

No I didn't do it, the Company Andale, is having big problems and I think I lost all the counter data :( oh well...

Tom

Stay Cool Tom!

S*H*I*T... happens

.. what about using two different free counters?

[RCParkflyer]

LOL Only to F-1 Drivers :D who don't win championships!!!

They'll fix the counter problem eventully.

no worries

Tom

[John Bright]

I finally have it painted and was ready to maiden this morning, but I didn't have a new prop. I am very superstitous and I always put on a new prop for the maidens. So I get my keys and get in the truck, and my wife opens the door and gets in, not good! End up 5 minutes in the hobby shop, 1hour and 35 minutes in Wally World, 45 minutes in Micheal's, and hey Petsmart is right there another 30 minutes gone. By the time I got back the weather was closing in and winds were about 20+mph. So I decided to finish the detailing on the Mig. We have a tornado warning right now, and a nasty storm coming in, but hopefully it blow through and be nice tomorrow to maiden. Finished weight came out to 21.2 oz, blew right through my 19 oz target. Here are some pics. If anyone can figure out what a Hacker A20-20L with a APC SF 9x6 prop with Kokam 3S-1500 battery puts out thrust wise I would appreciate it. Would hate to launch a "rock". Found this picture of the new "Swift's " paint scheme, I think that would be tough to duplicate.

[Esprit440]

That looks amazing John! Your choice of colors really works nicely.

Can you give us a rundown on the paints, pens, and other items you used to detail it? Thanks,

-Matt

[John Bright]

Matt, all of the paint in Delta Ceramcoat, thinned with windshield wiper solvent. The lines are done with a Sharpie ultra-fine point marker and a Pigma Micron 005 pen. I just mixed the different grays by sight, I got the blue too dark. It was fine in the mixing jar but these paints usually darken 2 or 3 shades when they dry. Too late now. The decals were screen captures from the "Swift's web site printed on regular paper and glued in place. I put a light coat of water based poly to give it some shine and seal the decals.

[Fulcrum]

Hi John,

You can really be proud of your mig-29ub, It is absolutely beautiful and it would inspire me in order to take care over my next paint scheme and even building process in order that time to be closer to scale look at the fuse upper part, but keeping simple building process, as did my buddy p'tit Louis as below by carving the afterward part.

Bravo, your work is stimulating me

When will you do the maiden flight?

JLuc

[John Bright]

JLuc, thanks for the compliments it didn't come out too bad. I wish I would of had some 3mm foam for the upper doubler to save some weight, and that I had used a 2 piece wing spar angled back instead of the one piece straight spar. I think that would have eliminated some of the wing flex that I fixed by fiberglassing the wing. The weight gain from the fiberglass was pretty substantial. I think the angled spar in combination with possible putting the hard point pylons under the wing would have been much lighter, but then the hard points would be something to snag in the grass on landing. I am hoping to maiden this afternoon if the winds die down. The storm last night still has the winds up here.

[John Bright]

I successfully maidened the Mig-29 today. The winds finally died down about 4:00pm to about 10-15 mph, not the best conditions for a maiden, but it was killing me not to fly it. I made two flights, actually one javelin throw and one flight. On the first launch attempt, I had the CG way to far forward. I barely had time to get my thumbs on the sticks to give full up and cut the throttle, no harm other than grass stains. Moved the battery back, and tried again. This time okay, climbed out with authority made a few passes nothing fancy just trying to trim it out. Got a little more brave (knees stopped shaking) and tried a couple of rolls. The mig rolled very nicely, I had differential and exponential set up on the transmitter. Did one loop from level flight, powered right through it. It is not a speed demon which is what I wanted, and the color scheme and size makes it easy to pick up when I am looking towards the trees at the back of the field. I flew the whole flight with about 10 degrees of flaps, landing was nice and slow, kinda stalled it out of the air. I did notice some binding in the aileron linkage. They were hooked up jetset style with just z-bends, but the hinge line of the flaperons and the line of the flap horn are not the same or parallel. I think I will change the flaperon linkage to ball links, so it can twist easier. All said an done not a bad day since didn't bring a "new kit" home from the field.

[RCParkflyer]

Wow!!! Congratulations John!!!

[Chris_K]

Great job, John. Congrats on your success.

Chris

[John Bright]

RC and Chris, thanks for the compliments, I'm pretty happy with the way it flys. It is very steady (probably because of the weight) and looks really cool in the air. I'll try and get video on the next flight if I can pry my son away from his video game long enough to film it, LOL.

[DCobra]

WOW.

The MiG looks simply incredible with the paint and panel line detailing you've done on it John.
Congratulations on the successful maiden flight and on designing a MiG-29 that really captures the scale of the real thing. Great work!

Paul

[Mike77]

So here I am Jhon!
I post the pic of the drawing situation.
The question are..
1 - If you can see the plane 3 view (scaled to have your same wing span) is a little bit longer an the nose and on the exaust cones. What do you thing I shold do?
2 - The fan ducting i larger on the 3 view, do you think that enlarging each of them of about 10mm will create any problems in the flight cartheristics? This size will be sufficent to store 2 55EDF..
3 - The rear section where the tail is should be a little bit larger..
I'm asking you this things because I like drawing but I'm not practice in flyng caratheristcs.. :(
Any other suggestion will be very appreciated!!

Mike

[John Bright]

Mike, I sent a PM but just in case, here goes. I don't think enlarging the intakes or ducts would be a problem if you went to the inboard or middle. If you go outboard you might have some interference problems with the stabs. I would strongly suggest if this is for ducted fan that you make a 2-piece spar and angle it back and I would probably go ahead and glass the wing anyway. Your plane will fly a lot faster than my parkflyer, so I would save weight in the upper doubler by using 3mm foam there. The back end is a little smaller because I wanted to keep the stab geometry simple. The real Mig has Titanium where the horizontal stabs mount, I couldn't think of anything to make that area out of that was light enough and strong enough, so I moved the vertical stabs in a little and squared off where the horizontal stabs meet the aft fuse.

[Mike77]

I've changed the rear section size making it a bit larger..you can see the difference in the pics. the ducting now is large and able to recive an edf55..
Any comments?
Now I will pass on the front section, upper doubler to make it compatible with the new size, and the nose cone. I was thinking that when I've finish with this I colud use the same method, (changing shape to the existing pieces) to abtain a Please correct me if something isn't right.
The sizes are in millimiters.

Mike

[John Bright]

Looks fine to me Mike

[Au_Arbiter]

whoa John, i just found this thread, righteous design comrade! :D can you tell me what that fancy colour scheme on post 84 is from? i'm guessing its an aerobatic team

- Arbiter -

[John Bright]

Arbiter, thanks for the compliment, the fancy paint job is supposed to be the new Swift's paint scheme. I downloaded that picture from the "Swift's" website.

[GPT]

John,heres a handy calculator to use for motor /prop combos.It has the hackers,Axi,Hyperions in it.

www.adamone.rchomepage.com/calc_motor.htm