Greatplanes U-Can-Do 46 Conversion from Glow to Electric [Archive]

Tomapowa

Oct 10, 2005, 02:04 PM

Hey folks,
I only saw a thread or two on such a conversion and figured I'd start a new/current one as I am embarking on such a conversion. I currently own 4 other U-Can-Do's (all glow) and love them. I hope to post a few pictures here as I progress... feel free to join in!

Currently, I plan to have the following setup:

- GP U-Can-Do 46 ARF
- Futaba 7 channel R147 PPM (no rcvr batt needed, use ESC/BEC)
- Mega Motor 22/30/2
- MEC SuperBox (4:1 ratio, 60T spur, 15T pinion)
- 17x10 APC E-prop
- 80A Phoenix Brushless Controller (ESC) (orig was using a PHX-60)
- Ultimate BEC (6v)
- 6s2p LiPo pack (12 - 2100maH 20C cells from China, 22.2v, 4200maH)
- Hitec 605BB servos (seeing I have extras)
- Hacker B50 Heatsink (needs some machining... see pics)
- Aluminum E-Mount (NICE! http://www.espritmodel.com/accesories_alum_motormount.html)

Some Design Ideas:

- CF rods all around... make as light as you can
- Removable Canopy for battery excess... (should be interesting)
- Might join the elevator halves with CF rod and use one Elevator servo
- Might also go pull-pull on rudder (i.e. embed servo in bottom of tail)
- Should I install a lighter CF landing gear?.... We'll see (any ideas?)

Everything else is planned to be stock.
(no fuel tank... yippee!)

Adam Neat

Oct 10, 2005, 04:16 PM

If you can let us know what the airframe weighs before you put all the goodies in it ;)

Adam

CUBANO8

Oct 11, 2005, 01:13 AM

Adam Neat

Oct 11, 2005, 04:48 PM

Subscribed...

I have a question on your selection of the phoenix 60a controller. What cutoff are you going to program your ESC to? That ESC has a max cutoff of 12volts or 4s li-po's. I think if you program the CC60 to 12v cutoff, your going to smoke your 6s Li-Po.

Please explain :confused: :confused:

Im not sure which option he is going to use but there are a couple. First you dont have to fly with a cutoff option. You fly with a timer instead. Its really better for the Lipos if you do not run them down to the LVC cutoff anyway. With the bigger mah packs required to deliver the higher current a 10 or 15 minute flight only uses 1/2 to 3/4 of the batteries capacity. (Unless you are flying around at full throttle) :eek:
Im using a Jeti 70 controller in a couple of 5cell and 6 cell applications and I dont think Ive ever flown to the LVC cutoff point. Not yet anyway ;)

The other option, I believe with the USB option on the CC controllers you can program up to 18v cutoff.

Adam

CUBANO8

Oct 11, 2005, 08:05 PM

I didn't know you can use the USB option to program too 18v cutoff on that particular ESC.

Thanks Adam

CUBANO8

Oct 11, 2005, 08:10 PM

BTW, I also use a Jeti 70 ESC, I was flying my 8 lb corsair today, flew for about 10min, so I landed the plane, and wanted to taxi back to the pit area, when cutoff kicked in. Whew! luckily for me it wasn't in the air, I would have probably lost her.

Adam Neat

Oct 11, 2005, 08:39 PM

I didn't know you can use the USB option to program too 18v cutoff on that particular ESC.

Thanks Adam

I dont have a PH60 or the USB link so Im not sure where I read that :confused: But I did double check on the CC website and they have all the manuals for there products. Here it is out of the USB link manual.

"c. Using the CUSTOM cutoff voltage: There is a setting in the Cutoff Voltage
dropdown list that is marked “Custom”. If you select the “Custom” cutoff voltage, you
may change the cutoff voltage using the spin control to any voltage between 6.0V and
18.0V. Using a custom cutoff voltage will not change the cutoff type, just the voltage at
which the cutoff occurs."

They have a lot of interesting features available but Ive always liked the plug it in a fly it type ;)

Adam

CUBANO8

Oct 12, 2005, 12:52 AM

Very Nice,

Thanks again. Learn something new everyday.

Tomapowa

Oct 12, 2005, 01:18 AM

Yup,
The "Castle Link" allows you to change the cutoff, and as Adam already mentioned, you can set a "custom" cutoff (up to 30.5 volts actually, apparently supporting approx 10 LiPo cells). Programming the controller was the very first thing I did, as I have ruined a few brushless controllers/motors in the past! :( (haste makes waste they say... and I'm proof)

I have tons of info re: weights and such. I also took a bunch of pics showing how I mounted the power system this past weekend. Pretty neat set up. Just waiting for my LiPos to figure out how I have to mod the canopy for battery access. Hope to get more info up on this thread by tomorrow.

... ok.. a little teaser...
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric6.gif

Tomapowa

Oct 13, 2005, 09:33 AM

OK,
Here's some info regarding the weigh-in of the "bare" UCD46, before adding all the "goodies"....

Wing (total, including wing, ailerons and bellypan) = 18.1 oz or 1.13 lbs
(BTW, one aileron weighed 1.8oz while other weighed 1.5oz.... go figure :confused: )

Fuselage (total including fuse, elevator pcs, rudder pcs, landing gear/wheels/pants, canopy and other misc screws, collars, control horns, hinges, etc... that will be used) = 29.6 oz or 1.85 lbs.

So, what I am starting with is a carcass that weighs roughly weighs 47.7 oz (or 2.98 pounds,... just under 3 lbs)

As for the Power System (minus LiPos), including the Mega motor, gearbox, E-mount, prop adapter, prop, spinner and PH-60 ESC/BEC,... all these weigh 17.9 oz, or 1.12 lbs.

Additional items that will add further weight include the batteries (6s2p), the radio gear (rcvr, servos, switch), glue and pushrods.

POST NOTE: I'm anticipating the battery pack (6s2P) to weigh roughly 25-27 oz., or 1.5 - 1.7 lbs.

(the power system being weighed....)
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric12.gif

Tomapowa

Oct 13, 2005, 11:52 AM

I mounted the power system this past weekend and ran into very little difficulty. I used the GP-scribed lines on the firewall, just as you would when installing a glow engine. The distance from the firewall to the prop as described in the manual needs to be 5" in order for the cowl to fit properly. In order to get this distance, you need to use an E-mount. I opted to use the "kit" that Esprit sells as it allows you to customize the stand-off rod lengths. But what rod lengths do I need you ask? Ah! I got lucky in that I ordered 4" rods (3 total as needed) knowing that they would be close, if not too long (easy to make shorter, difficult to make longer!). Well, I was right, in order for the power system (gearbox/prop adapter mounted to E-mount) to sit 5" from the firewall, the stand-offs need to be exactly 3-3/4". Lucky, my father machined them for me in jiffy, although, we did also have to tap the holes a little deeper in the rod ends we milled.
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric2.gif
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric3.gif

So, I first mounted the 15T pinion onto the MegaMotor (Loctite of course on everything), mounted the motor to the MEC SuperBox gearbox using the supplied screws, and then mounted the gearbox/motor to the E-mount using the supplied screws. Pretty easy. My only issue with the Superbox is that there is "slop" between the spurgear and the spur gear's connecting rod spline. I heard this is normal but it still bugs me. Also, the prop adapter included with the Superbox had a little issue in that it loosely fit onto the superbox shaft (i.e. if you didn't tighten up the set screw properly, it would make the adapter slightly wobble... looks the hole in the adapter was drilled slightly oversize as compared to the shaft).

Oh well, I'll probably use another better adapter in the future. The next step was attaching the mount to the UCD firewall. Use the scribed lines as I previously mentioned. I opted to pop out the existing blind nuts already installed in the firewall and reused them. I aligned the mount with the scribes and drilled the 4 holes required to mount the E-mount.
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric7.gif
Looked easy... except for one fact. The 2 holes drilled on the far right side are pretty close to the fuselage's side, in fact going right through the wood corner bracing installed inside the fuselage by GP. Now, how the heck was I going to install the blind nuts I thought... Ug!

Well, I was able to get in there with a long thin screwdriver and slowly (and non-gracefully) remove the corner bracing, allowing the blind nuts to sit flush (rather than on a 45 degree angle). After installing the blind nuts, the power system was mounted successfully.
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric10.gif

I also purchased a Hacker heat sink that also fits the MegaMotor. As soon as I mounted the motor/gearbox to the E-mount, I saw another problem... the heatsink is not going to fit inside the E-mount. Darn! In fact, the E-mount rods and actually milled (1/2 way) on the insides. This is to allow a heat sink (mounted to motor) to actually fit inside the E-mount, BUT only assuming the motor is a direct drive (i.e. not mounted to an offset gearbox). Well, after looking at it a bit, I figured if I was able to mill two 1/8" deep channels into the heatsink length-wise, this would allow it to fit... and that was exactly what I (well, really my father) did!
http://www.laureanno.com/RC/RCpics/U-Can-Do-Electric4.gif

Next step, as I am awaiting my batteries, I plan to work on the wing, elevator and rudder, and installing servos. I'm still thinking about joining the two elevator halves.... any ideas ?

Adam Neat

Oct 13, 2005, 12:37 PM

Next step, as I am awaiting my batteries, I plan to work on the wing, elevator and rudder, and installing servos. I'm still thinking about joining the two elevator halves.... any ideas ?

Vey nice job!! Ive heard of others in the sport plane forum that have joined the elevator halves to save the weight of the extra servo. Either a carbon rod or U shaped wire joiner would do the job.

On your batteries, I have 2 TP 3s2p 4200's that I use as 6s2p and the weight on those are 20.3oz. I also have a Max amps 5s2p 4200 with taps that weighs 22.2 oz So depending on what you get they may be a little lighter than your estimate, thats always good ;)

Adam

RMihara

Oct 13, 2005, 03:53 PM

You could also relocate a single elevator servo forward and do a split pull-pull arrangement to control both elevator halves.

I thought I had seen a photo around here somewhere showing this technique...I'll try to find it and post a link back to it if I do.

-Roger

hermperez

Oct 13, 2005, 10:15 PM

it may be possible to reprogram the cutoff, but the esc itself may not be able to handle the high voltage.. I really suggest you talk to Patrick at CC before hooking up the battery. Find out what the max wattage the esc can handle is, I am curious.

Herm

Yup,
The "Castle Link" allows you to change the cutoff, and as Adam already mentioned, you can set a "custom" cutoff (up to 30.5 volts actually, apparently supporting approx 10 LiPo cells). Programming the controller was the very first thing I did, as I have ruined a few brushless controllers/motors in the past!

Tomapowa

Oct 13, 2005, 10:53 PM

As advertised, the PH-60 can take up to 20 cells max (~30volts) BUT... you can not use the BEC portion of the controller when operating at voltages above 18 volts (12 cells). You need to disconnect the the red (+V) wire that leads from the PH-60 to the receiver (you only want Ground and Signal wires connecting from the ESC to the receiver... no +V power). You then need to use a separate BEC (one that can also handle high voltages) to power your receiver/servos. I plan to use an Ultimate BEC (buck/switching reg). "Wattage" depends on the motor you are driving.

it may be possible to reprogram the cutoff, but the esc itself may not be able to handle the high voltage.. I really suggest you talk to Patrick at CC before hooking up the battery. Find out what the max wattage the esc can handle is, I am curious.

Herm

MadDog Flaherty

Oct 13, 2005, 11:01 PM

Hi Tom...

That Speed controller is going to get kind of hot dont ya think??????
How long is your flight time??? 3 or 4 mins???

Just curious! ;o)

The MadDog

MadDog Flaherty

Oct 13, 2005, 11:07 PM

Lot of DOE for a 5 min flight! HMMMMMMMMMMM......

The MadDog!

hermperez

Oct 14, 2005, 05:05 AM

I see that, 20 nicad cells is about 6s lipos, and that should be no problem, but you guys are talking about 10s lipos and I think that is too much. CC does not talk about the max watt rating of the this esc.. they do specify it in the new high voltage speed controllers, they say the new hv85 can handle 4000 watts, that is 50v times 85 amps.. I just wanted to know if there was a similar rating for the PH-60

In any case that looks like a nice setup you have there... did you put some thermal grease under the heatsink?, messy but very COOL :)

Herm

As advertised, the PH-60 can take up to 20 cells max (~30volts)

MadDog Flaherty

Oct 14, 2005, 08:59 AM

Actually Tom, all kidding aside!
Very nice setup can't wait to see the videos!

Tomapowa

Oct 14, 2005, 12:11 PM

My pack I plan to use is really 6 LiPo 2100maH cells in series (22.2v, not 30v)
Two of these "6-series cells" are the connected in parallel to double the amperage (4000-4200maH). Still, it's 22.2volts!

Wattage?? Same for the Ph-60... multiply max current (60amps) by the voltage (22.2v) and you get 1332 watts. At the max voltage (30 say) you would then have 1800 watts.

And yes! Thermal grease is always highly recommended...
(this is what I use... Type 44 Thermal Grease from GC Electronics)
http://www.globalspec.com/NpaPics/92/164793_042820051317_ExhibitPic.jpg

I see that, 20 nicad cells is about 6s lipos, and that should be no problem, but you guys are talking about 10s lipos and I think that is too much. CC does not talk about the max watt rating of the this esc.. they do specify it in the new high voltage speed controllers, they say the new hv85 can handle 4000 watts, that is 50v times 85 amps.. I just wanted to know if there was a similar rating for the PH-60

In any case that looks like a nice setup you have there... did you put some thermal grease under the heatsink?, messy but very COOL :)

Herm

ray foley

Oct 16, 2005, 05:09 PM

I disconnected the red lead from my phx 60 and use a 4 cell pack for the rcvr, etc. This is cheap and effective. :)

BTW, my UCD 46 has an AXI 412018, 18cell gp3300 pack, 15-10 APC eprop, and a carbon rod between the elevator halves. After the lg broke loose :censored: , I replaced it with a 3/16" dia torsion bar suspension; light, cheap, and custom length for good prop clearance. :D

The stock spinner was replaced with a dubro aluminum prop nut/spinner which really floods the AXI beast with cooling air. The phx60 is mounted just forward of the cooling duct. More AXI benefits: no gears, no grease, no maintenance, no extra holes in the cowl. Simplicity itself, I love it. ;) :D

ttfn

Ray Foley

Tomapowa

Oct 16, 2005, 05:19 PM

HI Ray,
Any Pics!??
What did you also do re: battery compartment and such?
How well does it do 3D with that setup?
When using the CF rod to join elevator halves, how did you then "hinge" the elevator halves to the horizontal stab? Wasn't the rod in the way?

Sorry for all the questions... just happy to talk to another person who converted a UCD46. :D

Also, re: direct drive,.. I've had issues/concerns in the past with "spooling" when doing 3-D. I get better response with gear boxes. Maybe just my preference.

Tom

(BTW, I got very little done this weekend... darn weather/wet basement) :( :censored:

I disconnected the red lead from my phx 60 and use a 4 cell pack for the rcvr, etc. This is cheap and effective. :)

BTW, my UCD 46 has an AXI 412018, 18cell gp3300 pack, 15-10 APC eprop, and a carbon rod between the elevator halves. After the lg broke loose :censored: , I replaced it with a 3/16" dia torsion bar suspension; light, cheap, and custom length for good prop clearance. :D

The stock spinner was replaced with a dubro aluminum prop nut/spinner which really floods the AXI beast with cooling air. The phx60 is mounted just forward of the cooling duct. More AXI benefits: no gears, no grease, no maintenance, no extra holes in the cowl. Simplicity itself, I love it. ;) :D

ttfn

Ray Foley

Brad B.

Oct 17, 2005, 05:34 PM

Hi Ray,
I've been flying a UCD46 with a Saito 82a for awhile, and love it. I may convert to electric. I installed an axi 4130-16 into a scratch 3D foam profile plane which will use the Kokam 3200 mAh (20C) 6s set-up, with a Phoenix 80 and a 6 volt UBEC with Hitec 475 servos and 17x10 or 18x10 (more hover time) prop. MotoCalc predicts excess of 3000 ft/min vertical climb. See old pic. I wanted to play around with this set-up. I was wondering how your 4120 has been performing in your UCD, so please tell us more!

Brad

Tram

Oct 22, 2005, 03:43 PM

Ray - what kinda flight times you getting on that setup?

falcon41176

Oct 23, 2005, 11:40 PM

check my gallery running this set up on a 60- 90 size u can do flys great but using a inner demon gearbox with a 17 tooth pinion

falcon41176

Oct 23, 2005, 11:42 PM

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19218&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

here you go. oh and a 18x10 prop

Tomapowa

Oct 23, 2005, 11:53 PM

Falc,
What exactly is your setup?
Any more pics? :)
And WOW! a 60-size UCD ! Impressive.

ray foley

Oct 27, 2005, 11:57 PM

Well fellows,

The UCD46 hovers respectably and accelerates out of a hover with ease. Knife edge is superb. The plane is 3d compatible but I am not really, more of a pattern/sunday flyer. Sorry.

So I use slightly reduced throws for a comfortably quick roll rate on high rate and incredibly tight cornered square loops. Spins like a whirling dervish. it also slows down so nicely for those drag your tail wheel landings.

The UCD really makes me look like a much better flyer. Maybe it was just the previous not so good planes, not me! Cool!

Everyone should own one of these UCD series planes. They are soooo Sweeeet.

Regarding flight times, the packs are gp3300 nimh (kids in college, cripes!). So, my typical flight times are in the 10 - 12 minute range. Last weekend the wind was negligible and the thermals were really popping. Right, minimum power, 5-10 degrees of flaps, low power take off and climb out right into the bottom of a late afternoon thermal. Yeah, a UCD46 climbing like a homesick angel, soooo coool. Much later, I finally put it into a spin because I could barely see it any more at altitude. I counted about 30 spins before pullout at 2 mistakes high. The flight time was about 20 minutes. My neck hurt so bad that I was glad to land. Sweeeet.

Regarding the carbon fiber rod on the elevator, I just cut away enough balsa from the elevator and rudder to clear for no binding. Works great.

The battery compartment: I removed those nasty fuselage formers and added some light ply in the tank area to support the nimh pack. The pack is mounted on lite ply and velcroed (Is that a word?) to the floor. This leaves the pack hanging from the velcro, not good. So I added some 1/2" balsa to the top of the wing to push the pack into the velcro when you put on the wing. This works great but (there is always a "but".) the wing must come off to change batteries.

Please understand this project was a done on a bet to electrify the UCD46 as close to box stock as possible. I won that bet.

My friends Tom and Ivan each own wet power UCD60s which fly just as well but louder.
Ivan's wife Irena said she liked mine better because "is no so noisy". They are from Ukraine. Ivan just shrugged his shoulders.

Well that's enough for now.

TTFN, Ray Foley

Tomapowa

Oct 28, 2005, 11:46 AM

Thanks for the info Ray,
I'm still stumped on the joining of the elevator halves though.

I plan to join them using a pc. of CF rod but my main question... after having the rod in there, how did you hinge it to the stationary stab mounted to the UCD ? The rod would them be in the way of the CA hinges... no ??? How long of a rod did you use. I was hoping to use a rod the full length of the elevators but doing so will not allow me (at least easily) to then join it to the non-moveable stab ??? Help ??? (please?), unless I cut slits or holes into the rod to add hinges. ????

It looks like if I use a rod only 3-4" in length to join the two halves, I will still have some room on both elevator halves to add 2 or three CA hinges... but these would be towards the outer part of the elevator halves... I hope this is clear.. I just might have to take a pic to describe my issue... I'll post later.

Tom

p.s. Hope to get her completed this weekend! (easily got the wing completed... simply mount servos, install CA hinges and I was done). My LiPo packs are on their way too... can't wait! I'll be sure to post more pics...

ray foley

Oct 28, 2005, 04:29 PM

toma:

my cf rod is 3.5" long and epoxied into a relief i made in the elevator halves. There is also a minimal relief in the fixed H stab to eliminate binding. Yeah use more or wider hinges to compensate. CA hinge stock uncut is available at the LHS. I cut mine to 1.25" wide and pretty closely spaced. This works great.

My vertical and horizontal stabs are removable for transport. I use nylon bolts and wing nuts to keep it all together. The Vstab also has a CF rod attached to the bottom and a hole in the front of the slot keeps the front of the rudder in place. Sorry i've got no digital photo capability at present.

ttfn Ray Foley

Tram

Dec 13, 2005, 02:34 AM

Tomapowa - you fly it yet? :)

davidsons

Dec 13, 2005, 07:26 AM

I'm almost finished with mine. Eflite Power 60 outrunner, 16x8E prop, PHX 80, UBEC, 6S1P 3250 Tanic. Hoping to maiden this weekend.

Tomapowa

Dec 13, 2005, 03:49 PM

Tomapowa - you fly it yet? :)
Naw,... not yet. I had a LiPo fire in my house/garage recently that set me back a bit... (time & of course $$$).

I hope to get going on it again soon as I just revamped my workshop benches (made a new 8' x 3' bench for unplanned winter projects!).

I'll still be using LiPos, just have to be a bit safer I guess!

Tom

Tram

Dec 13, 2005, 03:57 PM

Ouch.. that was your house??

Man, I feel for you.. Don't charge those batteries unattended...

Tomapowa

Dec 13, 2005, 04:09 PM

Yup, never really posted it, someone else did... I try to stay out of it all... but certainly wanted to get the warning out (orig made webpage for my District prez and I guess he forwarded it around).

And yes, charging unattended was a mistake, as was the charging area, method, etc... A very hard lesson to learn nevertheless.

I will be buying the best LiPos and charger from now on (balancing connectors, etc...). I have since built an in-house "bunker" out of concrete (2'x'2 concrete box w/ lid) and I will charge them there. I also bought two portable fireproof safes for transport and storage.

Luckily, I salvaged 3 airplanes out of my 15 (the UCD conversion and two other planes were safe in my workshop... phew!)

Ouch.. that was your house??

Man, I feel for you.. Don't charge those batteries unattended...

Tram

Dec 13, 2005, 04:45 PM

Yeh, I charge in fire safe's, while I am watching them.. I am going to be buying a house soon and will build myself a lipo bunker.. I will admit, I charge mine all the time unattended.. However, when I do charge unattended they are placed in a manner where nothing could catch on fire other than the lipo's themselves..

Nothing quite exciting as watching a lipo charge. :D

Tomapowa

Jan 23, 2006, 11:07 PM

Hey Guys,
I'm finally getting back to my E-UCD (Electric U-Can-Do) project and finally got my batteries in (twleve 2100maH, 20C LiPos) and made my pack this past weekend (6S2P pack, 22.8v, 4200maH). I also decided to go with the best LiPo charger out there in my book, the FMA Direct Balance-Pro 6S charger. I was able to get my hands on a mating connector and installed it on the pack so I can properly and SAFELY balance-charge the pack (each of the six 2Ps will be charged individually). Batteries, connector and shrinkwrap brings this pack to around 25.5oz. Not too bad, esp for a 20C pack. This pack, similar to the Kokam Balance Pro packs, will be used along with a special FMA Direct BalancePro discharge protection module (DPM) that monitors the battery under load and assures that the pack is discharged properly. A little more weight but good peice of mind. This gadgets also interfaces with your ESC and pulses the ESC when an issue arises (indicating it time to land!). I also purchased a 6V UBEC switching regulator as most other regulators can only accept a maximum input voltage of 15-20 volts (if that). I have tons of pics and will add them shortly. Got the wing done last night (darn wrinkles). Can't wait to finish this puppy!

Vey nice job!! Ive heard of others in the sport plane forum that have joined the elevator halves to save the weight of the extra servo. Either a carbon rod or U shaped wire joiner would do the job.

On your batteries, I have 2 TP 3s2p 4200's that I use as 6s2p and the weight on those are 20.3oz. I also have a Max amps 5s2p 4200 with taps that weighs 22.2 oz So depending on what you get they may be a little lighter than your estimate, thats always good ;)

Adam

edkoz

Jan 29, 2006, 12:45 AM

Tomapowa

Jan 29, 2006, 01:53 PM

Tomapowa:

You might want to double check with Castle. I remember reading somewhere that they don't reconmmend exceeding 80% of the ESC capacity when using more that a 3s lipo and UBEC.
CC60 =48 amps. Their HV ESC's are a different story.

Ed

Thanks for the concern Ed,

From Castle's Phoenix 60 specs:

Cells w/BEC 5-12
Cells w/o BEC 5-20 (I plan to disable my BEC so 6S Lipo pack is ok they say.. the UBEC I'm using can handle 45 volts, my pack is only 6S or 22.2v)
Continuous 60 amps (continuous... not 80%... they verified this for me)
Surge 80 amps (I might bump into this occasionally, not too often hopefully)
Switching Rate Programmable (11, 22, or 41KHz)
Resistance 0.0012 Ohms
Brake Programmable
Reversible Yes - change any two wires
Low Voltage Cut-off Programmable
Size 1.05 x 2.35 x 0.45''
Weight (with wires) 2 oz. (58g)

After running some calcs, I will probably update to a PH80 or 110 to be certain but for now, it should be OK for the initial flights/checkout. CC verified (twice actually) that the PH60 should be OK for my application. If I was to use an 8S pack say, they then recommend the HV 85 version (double the weight though... 2oz versus 4+oz.. in my book, every little counts).
I'll be sure to post more as I complete the install.

Oh, I also opted to not use the removable canopy idea for battery pack install (too much work and issues with getting the pack in place). Instead (for now at least), I plan to remove the wing (two screws) when I need to install/remove the pack. I'll try to post a few pics soon.

Tomapowa

Jan 29, 2006, 02:14 PM

Some more pics...
Small aluminum mount made to hold ESC (allows for good cooling... I also removed the heatshrink wrap at both ends of the ESC for better cooling).

Tomapowa

Jan 29, 2006, 02:16 PM

(Some pics of the 6s2p 20C pack... with FMA Balance Pro Connector & 6s charger).
In case you are wondering, this 6s2p pack is heat shrunk with clear 3-1/2" heatshrink tubing (tough to see in the pictures). I always use clear so I can visually monitor the cells, in case one starts to puff. This pack was also built with thin (1/16") silcone spacers in between each pair of cells such that they ventilate and keep cooler (don't know why manufacturers do not do this... maybe they will once they read this idea). The center of the heatshrink tubing is removed (cut out on both sides of the pack) as it provides ample ventilation.

Tomapowa

Feb 25, 2006, 08:31 PM

Well, she's ready for her maiden flight. I test run the power plant many times now (each time it scares me more and more... WOW... that's all I can say). I finally cut out the cowl, allowing for ample ventilation. I even cut out the small triangular openings along both side of the cowl to allow for air to vent past the large motor heatsink. All I need now is a good day and she's in the air! (below are a few more pics...).

p.s. I must mention this... like a moron, I was standing the plane up on its nose one day to epoxy the rudder. I accidently kicked the plane and it tumbled on to the ground, tearing a hole and breaking two balsa supports on the turtle deck. I had to fix and recover 2/3 of the turtle deck.

I also mounted the rudder servo on the bottom of the fuselage (pull-pull w/ custom CF rods) as shown... I always wanted to do this on one of my UCD-46 but never had the time or patience... there's always a first for everything.

edavis

Feb 28, 2006, 07:24 PM

I'm interested in some more info on using the 18 Cell NiMh GP3300, AXI 4120, Phx 60 setup in the U Can Do 46. What was the total weight of the plane with this setup and wing loading? Also, what type of receiver and servos were used. Also, is this setup capable of harrior type manuevers or does the extra battery weight make it a little heavy for that type of 3D stuff. Also, can you substitute GP3700 cells with out much of a weight penalty? How did you configure the battery layout and setup the battery tray in the fuselage? What type of charger do you need for this setup and will a car battery be enough to charge a larger voltage pack? The NiHM setup sounds like a cost effective battery alternative if the wing loading does not get too heavy for 3D. I've flown smaller electric 3D planes and I'm trying to learn more about the bigger stuff. I love the glow version of the U Can Do 46 and a viable electric version would be even better.

Thanks Eric

J.W.S.4

Mar 07, 2006, 11:27 PM

Those pics are great I hope it has as much power as mine. I've got a Hacker c-50-10L. The pack is 4200 litestorm (15-20c) 5s basically saehan cells. It swings an 18-8 prop with no problem (apc). My flight time is 10 minuets with at least 1500mah left. The plane hovers like a Banchee with very little knife-edge issues. I can definatley say this it can't touch my GIANT U-CAN-DO with the hacker C-50-13XL Competion set swinging a 22-10(apc) with 10s2p 20c Litestorm pack. The pack is 4 5s-2500.

ENJOY

ray foley

Mar 07, 2006, 11:49 PM

eric
Hi I am the guy with the ucd46 with the axi and nimh batteries. in response:

weight and wing loading? more to the point, it is propped for 850 watts static, or about 120watts/lb at about 7 pounds AUW. Serious whoopie range.

what servos? futaba 3004 std servos on each surface.

what rcvr? Seeker 6 from polk's hobbies.

does it harrier? Maybe if the CG were back a lot further but I fly sport pattern not 3D.
however there is lots of power from the axi412018 with 18 nimh gp3300 with an APCe 15x10.

GP3700s? Sure they can't weigh that much more than gp3300 cells.

battery configuration? 3 six cell sticks side by side in the fuse, mounted on a liteply tray with tie wraps. A liteply floor was added to the "tank" area with velcro to hold the battery tray. A 1/2" balsa piece was added to the wing center to push the battery pack securely into the velcro.

Charger? astro flight model 112 with car battery or 30 amp, 12V power supply.

A taller landing gear may be required for the APCe 15x10, so contact TNT Landing Gear, Swanton, Ohio for a replacement gear.

Also replace the flimsy control horns with stouter after market units, my stock horns bent under flight loads with those huge surfaces.

ttfn -rjf

ray foley

Mar 20, 2006, 11:28 AM

you know how it goes. I foolishly pointed my antenna at my UCD on landing approach, lost control and, oh well, you know how it goes. I demolished my UCD, so sad.

A quick trip to the LHS and a new UCD is almost ready. This time I am redoing the front and top of the fuse for easy battery access without removing the wing every time. This necessitated a floor just above the wing made from liteply and triangular stock. The floor extends to the firewall and to the rear of the wing.

The hatch includes the canopy, about 4" of turtledeck, and enough framing to hold it all together. A heat reformed piece of golden rod holds the hatch front and a hardwood pin holds the rear of the hatch. Industrial strength Velcro holds the battery to the floor and two velcro straps add security.

A large 3/4" by 2" obround hole for cooling air was made at the top of the firewall and I removed the covering from the largest lightening hole on the bottom of the fuse just aft of the wing. I use a dubro spinner nut on the AXI412018 which jams cooling air into the motor, batteries, and ESC.

A taller alu landing gear was salvaged from another crash victim and mounted to the UCD for prop clearance.

Every thing else remains about the same ;) except the turtle deck which was red has been covered in dark yellow. It looks real sharp.

ttfn -rjf

Tomapowa

Mar 20, 2006, 09:08 PM

Hey Ray,
Sorry to hear about the E-UCD loss.
I'd like to see what you did with the canopy/battery... any pics?
I'm still waiting for decent weather here in the Northeast... been mainly windy the last couple of weeks. I'm itching to fly her :cool:
Oh... I'm also upgrading to a PH-80 instead of the PH-60 (it was pulling too many amps.. 50amps at just above half throttle). This thing is going to be ballistic! I'm thinking it might be a little too much battery for the plane... we'll see.

Brad B.

Mar 23, 2006, 12:15 PM

Hi guys,
Just an FYI, in case you haven't heard, unless Great Planes made an improvement, expect your landing gear to break off. I re-assembled with some fiberglass / epoxy and haven't had another problem since. Also, the despite the ply re-inforcements on the wheel pants, they will break off as well. I still love the plane!

Brad

ray foley

Mar 24, 2006, 08:32 AM

Brad et al:

ah, so, the traditional pealing of the LG, an ancient chinese ritual to be sure.

Mine did that too. I redid mine with a taller bent 3/16" wire torsion bar LG. This also cured the prop clearance issue.

So it goes -rjf

mustang11

Mar 24, 2006, 09:35 AM

Mine did the exact same thing at the end of the season last year :censored: . A couple of 1/8" dowel rods through the ply formers and a liberal application of epoxy to the affected area seems to have taken care of the problem. Of course having the bird stall a foot off the deck had nothing to do with it :rolleyes: LRV

Brad B.

Mar 27, 2006, 05:27 PM

Don't blame yourself; it is weak, but now it is strong!

chays23

Mar 27, 2006, 06:12 PM

i am thinking of making my UCanDo.46 and electric... its fully assembled.. all i have to do to start is take off the motor mount and take out the fuel tank... how did your bird fly before it met the ground?

ray foley

Mar 29, 2006, 08:46 AM

chay:

Simply put the UCD46 is outstanding as an electric conversion.

After the crash I went to the LHS and bought another one as mentioned above. This is a first for me as I seldom look back after a crash, just move on and build something else. Not this time I had too much fun with my first UCD46.

cheers -rjf

Tomapowa

Mar 29, 2006, 02:31 PM

Hi Guys,
Just got back from the field after having my first maiden flight on the e-UCD.
5-10 knots but at least it's finally in the 50's here on the east coast. All I can say is .... WOW! :eek: :eek:

CLICK HERE TO CHECK OUT THE VIDEO (http://www.atlanticrc.com/videos/e-UCD1.wmv)

I still need to upgrade to a new PHX-80 controller (60 amp version cuts it but barely). Although I think this weighs in more than the glow version... it still flies very light. I didn't want to push the pack too much but I did get to try a hover and knife edge.... PLENTY of power... actually maybe too much (I flew mostly at half throttle). I also need to add a little expo to the throttle channel as it's touchy from 0-1/2 throttle. After getting in a good 10 minute flight I packed her up and called it a day! WOW... can't wait to try her again! More videos to come for sure! :)

ray foley

Mar 31, 2006, 09:38 AM

hey toma:

excellent video. :D :D I also did my maiden of my new UCD today. Man, this plane flies better than most but I peeled out the LG on the second flight. :censored: I came up short on the landing and nicked some low corn stalks. bye bye LG and recover the bottom of the wing. So it goes. :o :(

Congrats on the maiden flight. -rjf

Tomapowa

Mar 31, 2006, 08:37 PM

Hey Ray,
Thanks!.. and sorry to hear about your mishap...
I have since made another 6s2p pack (something I highly recommend people to NOT do... buy them already made). I can fast charge these (2.5C or 10 amps) using the FMA charger/balancer in around 20-30 minutes each. Heck, with that (2 packs and charger) I can fly electric all day ! Weather here looks a little grim over the weekend so I doubt I'll get any more flights in. I'll be sure to post more info/videos in the future. I have also since upgraded to a PH-80 ESC. I can now pull 70+ amps, 1200+ watts with no problem (just as long as the prop/gearbox and plane hold together :D )

ray foley

Mar 31, 2006, 11:20 PM

Hey Toma

I am not in the business of selling lipos. I also don't recommend any charge rate for lipos over 1c. Sorry FMA but other extremely credible experts tell of slower charging enhancing long life prospects for these pricy batteries. Your money, your choice, choose wisely.

The repairs to the fuselage are almost done, I am going back to the torsion bar wire LG. They are cheap, durable, and are lighter than Al LG. The wing repairs are minimal and are mostly replacing torn covering. pop goes the weasel.

ciao -rjf

Brad B.

Apr 03, 2006, 01:14 PM

I like my Saito 82a SO much in my UCD46, that I decided to leave it alone. My AXI 4130 is still in my scratch blue foam plane, previously posted. It is extremely aerobatic, but difficult to hover. It does really good flat spins; looks like it's sitting on a turntable. Anyway, I decided to build another balsa scratch plane, overall similar to the UCD. I'll put the AXI in that with my Phoenix 80, 6V UBEC and two CellPro 3200 20C 3s packs in series for 6s1p. I was going to get the BalancePro (Skyvolt) 6s charger, but I really wanted a charger with a display, like my Triton. I heard FMA Direct was going to produce one, but it's probably months away. I can wait. The Triton will just have to charge one at a time for now. Eventually I may get some pics to post. I am designing fuselage to fit the CellPro's. It's a mid wing, with a wing cover that doubles as the battery holder. I put a large hole low in the firewall to route cooling air through to this cover and out some holes. I'm still working out the details.

Brad

Tomapowa

Apr 03, 2006, 04:35 PM

Brad,
If you also buy the $25 serial interface gadget (http://www.fmadirect.com/Detail.htm?item=1892&section=38) they sell for the BalancePro (Skyvolt) 6s charger, you can then download free "viewing" software from the FMA website (http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1175.msi) that allows you to see voltage of each cell and it also allows you to keep a history of charge rates and amount of current each cell consumes for each charge period. Using this data over time, you can see if you are starting to have problems with unbalanced packs and even identify flakey cells. I just started keeping tabs on my 6s2p packs. So far so good!

The key behind the FMA BalancePro system is the BalancePro Discharge Module (http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2046&section=38) which monitors each cell in the pack as you are discharging it. If they become unbalanced at any point or the voltage of any one cell drops below an unsafe level, it notifies you by interrupting the signal leading from the receivers throttle channel and the speed controller (stutters throttle momentarily).

The key with LiPos I have found over the many years I have used them is to not discharge them too rapidly or too deeply. Heat is also an obvious culprit, as is with most battery types. I usually charge my LiPos at a 1C rate. Once a month I might charge them up at a 3C rate. A lower charge rate certainly is easier on LiPo battery life/performance, as I think is the same for most if not all battery types.

Brad B.

Apr 06, 2006, 12:23 PM

Tomapowa

Apr 07, 2006, 10:31 PM

Toma,

I figured whatever "new" charger they build with a display will have similar features. Also, I probably won't use the DPM's, because they just add cost, complexity and weight, three things I don't need. I'll rely on the ESC. Besides, with a transmitter timer, experience and the obvious drop in performance, it's always been obvious to me when to call it quits. I never push it. I'm glad to hear you like the equipment. That's good.

Brad

Hi Brad,
Relying on the ESC to cut off when the "packs" voltage drops below an unsafe voltage is ok but the ESC does not monitor how each cell in the pack is doing. This has greater importance when using packs that have 4 or more cells (like my 12 cell packs). Balanced cells are very important for LiPo packs, whether you are charging the packs or discharging the packs. At a minimum, you should at least balance charge the pack to ascertain the cells are "balanced" after being discharged. I figured with a 6 pound airplane, the minimal weight of the DPM is moot when compared to the advantages I will gain from using the DPM. But bear in mind,... I still need to prove this to myself also as I just started using the FMA-Direct BalancePro equipment. Longer battery life and better performance is what I'm hoping for. All I need now is some good weather here in the North East! Come on Spring!

ray foley

Apr 14, 2006, 09:25 AM

Well spring has sprung here in Toledo. I made the requisite lg repairs to the UCD46 and have successfully flown with the CG closer to the foreward limit. The performance was more pattern plane like than 3d squirrelly as when the CG is more rearward. I don't personally care for 3d silliness, I much prefer pattern plane smoothness. The neat part is you can have either mode with the UCD just move the battery. and that is pretty cool.

This replacement UCD is as similar to the first as one can expect. You know "Second verse same as the first."

still pleased with the UCD46.

ciao -rjf

Brad B.

Apr 14, 2006, 01:04 PM

Toma,
I agree, as I fully intend to charge my two 3s packs at once using whatever "new" charger they come out with.

Brad

Tomapowa

Apr 17, 2006, 05:04 PM

The neat part is you can have either mode with the UCD just move the battery. and that is pretty cool.

Glad to hear you are back up and running Ray. I forgot to mention the CG of my E-UCD. I can barely get the C.G up far enough to obatin decent pattern flying performance, rather, it is fairly tail heavy (not too bad, as I am in fact a 3-D flyers mostly). The pack I use (4200ma, 6s2P) is up as far as it will go , snug up against the engine firewall. One thing I guess I could had done was to place the rudder server inside the fuselage, where the throttle servo normally goes. Having the pull-pull rudder system set up like I do certainly does not help with the plane being tail heavy. Nevertheless, it's fun to fly and can't wait for better weather here to wring her out a little more (darn winds have been brutal here in the N.E. :( ).

ray foley

Apr 18, 2006, 10:40 PM

I had the worst aileron flutter I have ever seen with my new UCD 46. I darned near crashed it but was able to pull out just as the flutter stopped. It landed pretty hard and bent the music wire LG. I'll make up a new set this week. The control horns were quite loose, read that as almost ripped out of the ailerons, and control was minimal after the flutter. That was a very close one, for sure.

The aileron structure is toast so I am going to make some new ailerons perhaps with less surface area as 3d is not an issue for me. Maybe i'll use 3/8" thick, 2" wide strip aileron balsa stock with spruce inserts for the control horns and stronger aileron horns. I will also disassemble the servos and replace the gear sets as a precautionary measure.

Man, this really jangled me real good but should be easy to repair.

shaken and quite stirred -rjf

Tomapowa

Apr 20, 2006, 10:31 PM

I had the worst aileron flutter I have ever seen with my new UCD 46....
Wow Ray, :eek:
I once saw aileron flutter on my UCD-46 gasser when I was flying with an over-pitched prop. Out of curiousity, how fast were you flying? After this flutter incident of mine, I noticed the supplied/stock pushrods (2-56 I beleive) were also slightly bent. I have since started using either 4-40 pushrods or even better, using Carbon Fiber/titanium pushrods as shown on my E-UCD. Sounds like one of these potential issues (speed or flexing pushrods) could had been your culprit.

shaken and quite stirred -rjf
Reminds me.... I need to get myself a drink :)

ray foley

Apr 20, 2006, 11:28 PM

It was a fairly windy day as I pulled out of a spin into the wind, motor full on and BRRRRRRRRR went the ailerons on both wings. You could actually see them oscillating with about a 3 inch peak to peak excursion. Quite impressive and very scary. I pulled up and chopped power as the plane banked uncontrolably. As it slowed the ailerons stopped fluttering and minimal aileron function returned. This was just enough to flatten the wings and fuselage as the UCD and terra firma came together abruptly. As I mentioned before a flattened LG but no other damage, ailerons excluded.

Still shaken and quite stirred -rjf

ps: now, some slop free servos, better pushrods, pattern like ailerons and serious control arms will definitely cure the beast.

a new name maybe? perhaps "U Can Do Pattern 46", what do you think? -rjf

Tomapowa

Apr 21, 2006, 12:23 PM

a new name maybe? perhaps "U Can Do Pattern 46", what do you think?

WOW! sounds like a very close call.... good save!
One of these days, I'll have to try that pattern setup on my gasser (move CG up a bit). When I built her, I pulled the fuel tanks back a bit for enhanced 3D performance but one day, I'll try pushing the tank in to see how this changes the flying characteristics. Let us know how she flies with those new ailerons.

Still been windy as heck here in the Northeast. I think the March winds are late this year :mad: Suppose to rain most of the weekend too... BUT.... I'm off all next week so HOPEFULLY.... I'll get another flight in on the E-UCD.

ray foley

Apr 23, 2006, 11:16 PM

Well the damage to the wing was a little more extensive than previously mentioned. The TE of the wing at the root was broken and the root ribs were cracked in several places and the root sheeting was detached in several locations. All problems are fixable but the pretty stock covering went away during the extensive inspection and resultant repairs. I bought some red large checked ultracoat for the bottom of the wing and white for the top at present. It needs color on the top but it is late, maybe tomorrow.

The fuse is fine, Deo Gratias. Well, into the air again junior birdmen, probably on wednesday or so. I still have to install the new servos, hinges, linkages, and control horns. Then recheck the program and balance, fore-aft and lateral. Easy stuff.

ciao -rjf

dusty IV

Apr 27, 2006, 11:19 AM

I'm on an off finishing mine like a bad habit. I almost pulled the trigger on some big LiPo's but gave up on that idea after my smaller ones for different planes died. One before it even flew. LiPo's suck imho and I'm gonna wait it out until I feel comfortable. Red Schoenfeld in his last column in the AMA mag even had a big warning about some of the suppliers being scamers on C and discharge rates. 20 C seems to be pure bogus at the present time.

Now I'm focused on the Milwaukee drill batteries that had a good thread running. Looks like a lot safer way to go and cheaper too.

I'm also rethinking the motor size. Looks like an AXI 2826 might work. Less weight, Less batteries, etc then the next bigger motor series.

I modified the fus slightly. Cut off the lower half of the nose at an angle for air inlet and moved the canopy to the rear for battery access.

ray foley

Apr 27, 2006, 11:23 PM

dusty IV

Apr 30, 2006, 01:25 PM

hey dusty

you might have something there with the light hardware solution but I'll tell you this bird really flies great with 800 watts and an axi 412018.

On the other hand, I have been lusting for the Emoli/milwaukee batteries too. Less poundage but lower maximum c-rate for the motor. Trade offs trade offs, Oi. But a pound or better less mass to haul would always improve things.

The UCD wing and fuselage are so light they are almost delicate, and with an AXI 282610 with a 4S emoli pack you might just have a real bell ringer, real light and pretty strong too. Hmmmm!?

Getting the UCD to balance with the light hardware could be a challenge. You can delete one elevator servo from the tail with a piece of CF rod to hold the elevator halves together. But the battery will be as far forward as possible. The motor and esc will be in the cowl. The receiver up should be front too. Yeah I think this may really work well. hacha! I think you will need to aim at 450 to 500 watts with the little axi to bring this bird to life. Lets see thats 14 volts and about 35 amps, I guess it depends on how much you are willing to push the specs of the little axi, but it seem promising.

ciao -rjf

Thanks for the positive comments. I also am a bit worried about the tail weight. The covering on this bird has been stripped off and I'm planning to use light weight covering like Oracover. (Sp?) Adding a bit of length to the nose however is not a big deal. The stab and rudder have had about 1/16" balsa removed. It more then sturdy enough. I plan to mount the motor outboard with the AXI mount. You caught my attention big time about flutter. I saw one do just that the other day. This needs to be worked on.

ray foley

Apr 30, 2006, 08:31 PM

Dusty:

When I repaired the wing, I reduced the aileron width by about 1" from the root to the tip, bought some hs475 servos with slop free geartrains, replaced the pushrods with inflexible arrow shaft type pushrods, and installed Dubro bolt type "control horns". The ailerons are solid balsa and fairly stiff. While I was at it I also replaced the elevator and rudder servos with no slop servos and reinforced the rods with tight fitting cf tubes to stiffen them up. I now have minimum slop linkages all around. hacha!

This should take care of the flutter problem, but the UCANDO is diverging from the arf more every time I fly. So it goes, so it goes.

ciao -rjf

ray foley

May 03, 2006, 11:08 PM

Tomapowa

May 05, 2006, 11:24 PM

Hi Ray,
Glad to hear all went well. :) I also got to fly my E-UCD46 today.. hardly any wind and a beauty of a Friday to take off! She flew awesome and I'm pissed I did not bring my camera to take some video (usually my father is the videographer but he was busy in the morning). Nevertheless, I really put her through the wringer... WOW! She knife-edges unbelievable... hardly any tuck. I got approximately 14 minutes on the first battery (even pushed her a little) and then got a good 10-11 minute flight on the second pack (after doing some hovers, knife-edges, flat spins and such). People at the field were amazed! When I came in, the batteries were under 90 degrees each... unreal, seeing I'm often pulling 70+ amps. I also noticed that the gear box must be "breaking in" because it sounds like the "whirring" is getting softer and softer every time I run her. Boy... is she a ball to fly. On the second flight I got hit my some sort of interference (a potential issue at of field for quite a few years) and I just might throw in an 8 channel PCM receiver I have hanging around to see how that reacts.

I plan to fly her again tomorrow and will hopefully remember to bring my camera (maybe I should go throw it in my van now! ;) ) Every one loves videos!

Later!

hermperez

May 06, 2006, 09:05 AM

the 2826-10 can be pushed up to 700watts with a 5 s pack, 600 watts with a 4s pack.. for momentary duties of course. The problem will be balancing the plane.. I guess you could push the milwaukee cells all the way forward into the cowling.. heck you could wrap 5 cells around a motor mount :)

5 cells are around 18oz so that should help with the balance.

Herm

Tomapowa

May 10, 2006, 09:24 PM

OK.. one more video from this past weekend!
I can barely fly this thing above 1/2 throttle! (she rockets up as if there were jets connected :eek: )
WHAT A BLAST TO FLY!
http://www.atlanticrc.com/videos/E-UCD2.wmv

Tram

May 10, 2006, 11:19 PM

Electrics sure have come a long way.. :)

ray foley

May 12, 2006, 04:46 PM

hey Toma:

I just got back from a business trip to Europe and saw your video. Great stuff. I've been flying electrics since 1985 and the current e-power equipment is truly astounding. It is almost too easy. Now I can actually concentrate on flying style instead of just getting the electric plane to fly at all. Will wonders never cease? I sure hope not.

once again Bravo -rjf

Tomapowa

May 14, 2006, 08:30 PM

Thanks Ray... I have another two days of video I took but still need to take it off the camera.

Hey ... not to change the subject but I thought I'd pass on this interesting link to a very promising Li-Ion battery technology :

http://www.a123systems.com/html/home.html

There's a few threads already started on RCGroups re: them... such as:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5354912#post5354912

(search for "A123")

ray foley

May 15, 2006, 10:48 AM

toma:

Everybody sing: "Rain, rain, go away, come again some other day..."

I think I am going to get bids for building an arc. Know what I mean?

yeah I've been watching the discussions of new higher C lion cells in the heli area and the battery area here and on rcu. I don't mind the weight but the lower C rates are a concern. I do however like the round cell in a metal can much better than the plastic wrap on lipos. It just seems not quite right to me to put that much power in plastic wrap. Not to mention the "vents with flame" incidents that are all too common.

I still fly nimh round cells, heavy but bullet proof and easy to charge.

ciao -rjf

Tomapowa

May 15, 2006, 05:00 PM

Hi Ray,
I thought I read that these 123 LiIons are suppose to have a 30C discharge rating?

Yeh.... rain has been a bummer here in the North East US.
Got a lot of building done this weekend at least! :)

Hey, have you also tried NiCads in that UCD? Just curious...

ray foley

May 17, 2006, 11:18 PM

toma:

I gave up on nicads a long time ago. They don't hold enough amp-hours and they are ecologically poison. Cadmium is terrible stuff in the drinking water. Nimh are a good improvement over nicad in capacity and ecofriendliness, or so I have read.

30C from Lion cells is pretty much a dream. There are CBA graphs for all the Lion variants and none really live up to that standard. I am not real comfortable pulling over 30 amps or so out of any presently available battery chemistry, not and get good life from the packs.

btw, I think lake Erie is getting ready to overflow. All the rivers around here in toledo are pretty close to flood stage. We had a light sprinkle after dinner but that stopped quickly. The water table at our flying field is above the grass in several areas and canada geese have taken over the larger puddles, mallards in the smaller puddles. Man they land great. It will take weeks to dry out the field, groan!

I guess one of those hydrofoamies might be just the ticket these soggy days.

ciao -rjf

Brad B.

May 22, 2006, 12:44 PM

well I took the much revised UCD out for a flight or three. The revised ailerons, new linkages, and servos work great. Not even a hint of flutter and rock solid control. The hs475 servos are virtually slop free and very precise and smooth. I guess that it is time to be rid of the s148 and 3003 std futaba servos. The differences in operation of these servos are subtle but appreciable. Hmmm, neat. And the price wont destroy the family money tree, better yet.

ciao -rjf

Ray, I use the HS475's in all my standard applications. They have been really good. You can also easily reverse one, if you need to, such as if you have 2 elevator halves with a Y-harness. I have had many failures with the 3004's. More recently, I have tried the digital HS5245MG's. I put them on rudder and elevator only.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCRT0&P=0

They are lighter than the hs475's, have a speed of 0.12 sec at 6V, same torque, and have solid holding. They're just under $50, about 3x as much, but if you're doing 3D stuff, I think it's worth it. The tail weight decrease is nice, too.

Brad

ray foley

May 24, 2006, 12:08 AM

hey brad

Thanks for the info and link about the digital servos. I have not made the leap to digitals yet as I still have a kid in college. The money drain is horrific. So the hobby must be somewhat frugal, so it goes. He graduates next year, hurrah.

ciao -rjf

ps why only rudder, and elevator? -r

Brad B.

May 25, 2006, 01:20 PM

Ray, main reason was speed to help with better hover control. 2nd reason was weight reduction in tail. Cost prevents me from using on ailerons. I had to stop somewhere!

Brad

Tomapowa

Jun 01, 2006, 05:14 PM

Yet Another Video .... (can you say Knife-Edge!?)

Electric UCD Video#3 (http://www.atlanticrc.com/videos/e-UCD3.wmv) :)

hermperez

Jun 01, 2006, 08:16 PM

very nice..

Herm

StrangeGager

Jun 02, 2006, 07:50 AM

How well would the UCD 40 fly on 900 to 1000 watts? Assuming 6# auw, that would be about 150w/lb.

What are you guys running in terms of watts/lb and what kind of performance are you getting?

Thanks

Also,
Are you guys putting a hatch of some sort on top or are you removing the wing to change packs?

Tomapowa

Jun 02, 2006, 12:59 PM

How well would the UCD 40 fly on 900 to 1000 watts? Assuming 6# auw, that would be about 150w/lb.
My setup pulls around 1200 watts at 3/4 throttle. :eek:
A bit too much to be honest... but fun! 800-900 would appear plenty. The UCD isn't made to fly fast anyway. I also noticed that the electrified version flies like it's on rails... unlike the glow version I have (has to be lateral balance due to engine/exhaust).
What are you guys running in terms of watts/lb and what kind of performance are you getting?
My AUW is just over 6 lbs (due to extra elevator servo and FMA discharge module), so I have roughly 1200/6 or 200 watts/lbs.
Also,
Are you guys putting a hatch of some sort on top or are you removing the wing to change packs?
I wanted to put a hatch but the logistics were just too much to ponder. I had purchased some rare earth magnets that were going to hold the canopy on but instead opted out. Like you mentioned, two wing screws are removed to access the battery. Also, as far forward as the battery needs to be... adapting the existing canopy might be difficult, if not impossible.

Also, I forgot to mention this re: the U-Can-Do electrified version....
CLEAN UP is much much easier !!! :D

ray foley

Jun 02, 2006, 11:06 PM

I redid the top of the fuselage for a battery hatch. It was a fair amount of work but was definitely worth it. The canopy is part of the hatch. The hatch is held on by a hardwood pin at one end behind the canopy and a nyrod retainer at the other end. It works great.

ciao -rjf

ps: My current UCD has an AXI 412018 and 18 nimh 3300gp and an APC 15x10 eprop. Around 800 watts or so. It is fun to fly at low rates and a beast at high rates. Actually the high rates performance scare me and so are seldom used.

pps: The next UCD will have an AXi 413016, 6s 4400 lipo pack, an APC 16x10. It will be lighter and more powerful than the current UCD. oh my. -rjf

StrangeGager

Jun 02, 2006, 11:27 PM

Cool, thanks for the replies.

CryHavoc

Jun 10, 2006, 03:45 AM

Ray,

Why go to the 4130? Why not stay with the 4120 and the 6S pack?

Here I've been reading this whole thread thinking I've got a 4120-18 I'm not using and a UCD .46 (actually its a Chinese copy called a Dragonfly) sitting in the box........ I also have some 5S packs but could get some 6S if needed.

Just wondering before I start cutting?

Mike

hermperez

Jun 10, 2006, 10:32 AM

post some pictures Mike.. who sells that plane?

Herm

CryHavoc

Jun 10, 2006, 04:17 PM

Herm,

I got it off one of the Ebay dealers some time back and I haven't seen any since. I think I paid $90 with shipping for it. Unlike some some Ebay planes, this one is VERY well built and covered.

Mike

Tomapowa

Jun 10, 2006, 07:09 PM

I think this is it... isn't it? My flying buddy still has to maiden her... (got on Ebay too I think he said). I'll see if he has any other pics... I think it's a little smaller than the UCD46 and lighter.

http://photos.arcflyers.com/albums/userpics/10012/normal_DSC01201.JPG

CryHavoc

Jun 10, 2006, 07:58 PM

Yep! Looks like the one I have.

Mike

Tomapowa

Jun 14, 2006, 09:26 PM

And yet another video... this is with an upgraded controller (Phoenix HV110) :eek:

http://www.atlanticrc.com/videos/e-UCD4.wmv

ray foley

Jun 16, 2006, 12:24 AM

hi folks

well the UCD46 is alive and well in toledo ohio. I have been slowly and tentatively shifting the batteries back for a more rearward CG. Much better rudder response but very quick elevator even on low rates. I need to reduce the throw or maybe increase the expo, what do you think? The UCD46 is definitely 3d compatible but I am really hesitant but the thrill factor has definitely increased. I find that I fly about three mistakes high when messing around with 3d and often need most of it when confusion sets in and perspective fails me. Everybody sing " what a drag it is getting old.." Mick was right.

The removeable hatch is a great mod for this plane and so is the requisite lg refit and upgrade. Did it again. @#$$$^%!!! Well at least I'm getting good at the lg upgrade. lol

ciao -rjf