Obtaining civil UAV freqs from FCC

[galaxyrpv]

OK I need some support from all Civil UAV companies that are out there. I need to put together a united front and present the FCC with a request trying to get us some specified frequencies that can only be used by licensed UAV companies. I have my contacts at the FAA researching weather or not they can help buy submitting a document supporting the need for us to have our own dedicated frequencies. The FAA is on board with use receiving our own freqs, but they are worried it would be a conflict of interest for them to formally submit that type of request. Regardless I know in my business I am in dire need to be on a frequency that gets less interference closer to populated areas, and I need to be able to boost my transmition signal up to 5 watts legally. I know its allot of paper work, but me and the FAA have come to the conclusion it is going to happen sometime in the future, and the FAA is not planning on addressing the issue them selves for over 7 years from now. I do not know about you guys but I need those frequencies NOW! I would like to get responses on forming new associations that would encompass all civil UAVs. RCAPA is a good start, but it does not cover aerial advertising or the operation of RC blimps, and it is too focused on aerial photography. We need an association that encompasses all UAV applications. I am open to suggestions and support.

[lvspark]

I am not what I consider a UAV company, but I do take photos on the commercial level and I also see a need for some freq.

I am in the process of switching over to spread spectrum right now and have flown my slow stick test plane with this system. I am using my laptop with game joystick right now. But can also make it for use from a trainer port.
This control link is license free, thousands of freq combos with encryption ect., etc., etc....
Range up to 20 miles.

I figured it was easier to roll my own that try to change the FCC...

video http://www.rsnw.com/sss.wmv (it was windy) :D

[galaxyrpv]

How well does that system work in a city area? Would you trust it with a $75,000 UAV? How come it is not well known on the market? Is it designed as a RC replacement, or is it primarily used for something elese?

[patrickegan]

Do we need yet another group or would you like to head up the “aerial advertising or the operation of RC blimps” part of operations? When we spoke on the phone didn’t we kind of touch on this? -P

[Mr.RC-CAM]

Regardless I know in my business I am in dire need to be on a frequency that gets less interference closer to populated areas, and I need to be able to boost my transmition signal up to 5 watts legally.Why not just utilize a Commercial (Part 90) Station License and a R/C system certified for Part 90 operation? Futaba offers some industrial R/C systems that would qualify for a commercial license: http://www.futaba.com/products/irc/introduction/index.asp

The commercial channels do fall in between our R/C channels, so you will not be alone as far as the RF spectrum goes. But, you'll have more RF power to help overcome adjacent hobby R/C interference (if any).

RC-CAM

[galaxyrpv]

I will look into that.

[galaxyrpv]

Patrick,
We could do something like that. I was going to contact you over the phone, but I lost you number.

[lvspark]

How well does that system work in a city area? Would you trust it with a $75,000 UAV? How come it is not well known on the market? Is it designed as a RC replacement, or is it primarily used for something elese?

The system works super if you have LOS between antennas. It is not well known, because I made it a few weeks ago just to see if I could and it is not a commerical product. It is an RC control and much more.

I would never trust any RF control link with a $75,000 UAV and neither should you. Redundant back-up systems and some amount of failsafe autonomony would be desired before I would even think about it..

If I stay focused on this project long enough, you would be able go from launch to landing with control, video and telemetry via an internet browser. Who wants to fly the little red slowstick? :-)

[CenTexFlyer]

Who wants to fly the little red slowstick? :-)

How about a smallish, orange Shaker?

http://home1.gte.net/texhills/SMorange4.jpg

[lvspark]

Looks pretty cool, I'll fly it!!!

What is it's IP?? :D


Back on topic..
Galaxyrpv,
I think what some of us are saying on here is that it might be an easier task to upgrade your control system to what is available or currently in development rather than trying to get additional freq's allocated in a ever shrinking spectrum.
Like rc-cam said, there is some part 90 stuff and I've seen a few spread spectrum stuff out there on the market already. Something to consider...
Dealings with the FAA is hard enough, I would not want to add the FCC to the list :)

[Myron]

Hey guys,

I think having seperate freq's would be awesome for commercial users and I am on board to help where I can. I know that in dealing with the FCC you have to have an FRN #.. we have one through RP Flight Systems but we may need to look into getting one as an organization that will have more clout.. Does anyone else here have an FRN#? Our dealings with them so far is a real PITA.. Seems like the left hand doesnt know what the right is doing over there... I guess their too worried about Shock Jocks and wardrobe malfuntions...

Myron

[Mr.RC-CAM]

Keep in mind that in the USA, the existing RF spectrum is essentially sold out. There are a lot of commercial applications that are begging for more frequency reserves. Most of these industries will cheerfully pay a fortune for that. The next big allocation will become available when the broadcast HDTV conversion fully occurs. The VHF/UHF freq's that are freed up will sell for a tidy sum. But, that is probably five years off given the delays that have been experience for the planned conversion.

My point is that it will not be cheap to reserve a small section of the RF band that would be used strictly for our application (not shared). There is too much competition in the spectral market (as well as a gov mantra to satisfy the "public good"). We're just small potatoes, no matter how hard you spin it. I truly believe you will get a lot further, a lot sooner, if you just find a way to utilize the existing band plans.

[galaxyrpv]

Regardless of the cost, civil UAVs are the wave of the future. There WILL be frequencies allocated for our use, but it will take allot longer to be established if no one takes the initiative to get things rolling now. That’s what my FAA contacts tell me. I do not want this turning into an argument whether we should or should not seek the frequencies. I am already in the process of getting the ball rolling and I am trying to find people interested in helping out. I want to operate the most safest and legal way possible.

[Mr.RC-CAM]

There WILL be frequencies allocated for our use, but it will take allot longer to be established if no one takes the initiative to get things rolling now.Have you directly contacted other established UAV firms? I would expect that they have had long dialogs with the FCC, as you have. Your combined industry would have deep pockets too.

[galaxyrpv]

The larger forms are geared toward military applications. They get full use of the military frequancies. They have no need for civil freqs yet.

[Myron]

Tony,

With your contacts at the FCC are you able to ask anyone with any intelligence what it would take to get designated freqs?.. I seem to get he the run-around and re-direct because the person on the other side ALWAYS seems to act like $5.20 per hour operator and no real clue about my questions...

Myron