Small UAVs

[space_case]

Sometimes refered to as MAVs.

What is the smallest plane you guys have flying? Or maybe a better question is, what is the smallest (lightest) fully autonomous autopilot you have developed?

I worked once on a 24" plane but I had nothing to do with the development of the board. The plane did quite well at waypoint navigation.

I'm trying to dig in and develop something but I really want it to be small. Like the TGE (http://www.continentalctrls.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=2&Itemid=2)

[Myron]

Hey Space Case,

We are developing some medium size wing UAV's using the TGE... Most of our wings are sub 60" but with the small size of the TGE we plan on making some that are much smaller with a more specific mission... As things progress with the TGE we will post more info on the results...

Myron

[space_case]

I would be anxious to here the results. I personally have experience with designing, building, and flight testing MAVs (some <5" span) along with some controls experience and I am looking to link these together.

[birdofprey]

Currently our Locust MAV/UAV is flying autonomously using the TGE. Weighs a touch over a pound and spans 18-inches.

Justin
EdgeRC Inc.

[space_case]

Wow, I suppose nobody is necessarily trying to push the lower size boundaries with the TGE.

[Myron]

Space,

You can go smaller, but the intended use(payload) becomes an issue.. Sure you can make tiny units fly automously, but how much useful payload can a 9 oz aircraft carry for any duration of time in any sort of wind.. I will probabaly get flamed for that comment, BUT most guys dont have the budget for an thermal imager or air quality sampler ect. that weighs just a few oz or grams and can effectively be installed and go a long way and send back or bring back much useful data.. Yes the Black Widow MAV is used over the West Bank and Gaza but the video feed coming back is B/W and generally of poor quality..
The TGE is most promising in size and power and we look forward to getting her up an running very soon.. I am sure we will post either here or on our site the results.. We plan on our first flights(after testing) to be carrying a color high res video system in a wing that is around 60" with an AUW of around 4.5 lbs that is capable for staying aloft for 45 minutes....

Myron

[space_case]

Myron I understand about the payload issue and yes you can make a blanket statement that these small aircraft are somewhat less uselfull when compared to their big brothers. However there are missions that MAVs are tailor made for. They can fly through urban canyons that larger craft can not. One day they may be able to fly right through a window and explore a building. They are also well suited for 'perch' missions where they will be less noticeable to the casual observer as they sit quietly on a windowsill and record conversation or take measurements.

I once worked to develop some MAVs for DARPA to complete just such a mission. They wanted a MAV that could perform a controlled dive in between buildings and perch on a windowsill. Of course when we went for a presentation, the project manager decided that what he really wanted was technology enabling the operation of a "sub two inch" airplane!

You also have to realize that the government has its own payloads in mind and we may not have the details on these. I know I've been approached about the use of these small aircraft in the area of chemical sensing. A major city undergoes a major attack. Chemical sensor equipped MAVS swarm in a cooperative manor providing a 'lagrangian' perspective of the chemical dispersions and concentrations.

Perhaps small chemical sensors exist, or maybe they are on the verge of development. I've never really researched them as they are not my personal interest.

My main focus is to get an MAV flying autonomously, and then to have growing numbers of them fly cooperatively.

[lvspark]

However there are missions that MAVs are tailor made for. They can fly through urban canyons that larger craft can not. One day they may be able to fly right through a window and explore a building. They are also well suited for 'perch' missions where they will be less noticeable to the casual observer as they sit quietly on a windowsill and record conversation or take measurements.


When pigs can fly... :)

Edit: My first reply was a little insensitive.. :rolleyes:
Sorry.

[space_case]

When pigs can fly... :)

Edit: My first reply was a little insensitive.. :rolleyes:
Sorry.

No need to sugar coat things on my behalf. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

And if you think airplanes have no hope of navigating through confined spaces autonomously... I'll give you a hint image processing .

[lvspark]

No need to sugar coat things on my behalf. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

And if you think airplanes have no hope of navigating through confined spaces autonomously... I'll give you a hint image processing .

Optic flow has been around for awhile now, no hint's needed..
There is allot more to navigation than object avoidance.
A balsa and tissue freeflight avoiding a tree is along ways from flying down into the urban jungle avoiding wires and buildings, and intelligently finding the open window of the person of interest, then having to determine if the window is open/closed/screened, etc.. and now having to land and perform the silent perch. Now consider the wind swirling.. :D

No doubt this technology is cool, and someday, a MAV might be able to do this. Proving this is possible is one thing.... proving it is practical and easily replicated in various environments is another..

I'll give the technology 10-12 years to get all that working, and by that time, I'll have my window MAV detector / bug zapper in place. :)

[Krox]

I have a unique heli design that can carry a substantial payload. Rotor diameters 24". Looking for electronics to fly it with as little pilot input as possible.

Here is the link to the site showing the heli Hex coaxial rotor electric heli (http://www.danos.on.ca/hex)

Any suggestions? I'm operating on a budget and can't swing the $1000 to $2000 controls that I've read about in this forum.

Dan

[Vindication]

Anyone know offhand how much the tge is?

[JettPilot]

The FMA FS8 copilot works great on a helicopter. It wont navigate but it will keep it level and under control, making your workload much less ! Its only about 200 dollars at Horizon Hobbies :D

[reedchristiansen]

Small UAVs are kind of my area,

I built the autopilot for a small 21 inch plane called the TACMAV. It began as my masters project and ended up as a commercial venture. A friend did most of the later hardware design and I did the flight software. It ended up as the Kestrel autopilot.

I also worked on the avionics software for an Aerovironment project called the WASP. It is roughly 14 inches.

Now as part of the commercial venture, people are putting the Kestrel in planes down to 9 inches. This is mainly work with the University of Florida.

I can supply pictures for some of this work if people are interested.

Reed



Sometimes refered to as MAVs.

What is the smallest plane you guys have flying? Or maybe a better question is, what is the smallest (lightest) fully autonomous autopilot you have developed?

I worked once on a 24" plane but I had nothing to do with the development of the board. The plane did quite well at waypoint navigation.

I'm trying to dig in and develop something but I really want it to be small. Like the TGE (http://www.continentalctrls.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=2&Itemid=2)

[space_case]

Now as part of the commercial venture, people are putting the Kestrel in planes down to 9 inches. This is mainly work with the University of Florida.

I'm guessing you know Pete and Kuho then.

[reedchristiansen]

Pete Petrovich? He quit working at AV about a year ago.

I do know Kyu Ho, I was down in Tampa with him a few weeks ago.

Both great guys.

Reed


I'm guessing you know Pete and Kuho then.

[space_case]

This is another Pete, who is Kuho's boss. Anyways I went to school there. Good program. Do you own the Kestrel? Are you in business for yourself?

[reedchristiansen]

Are you talking about Pete P. at AeroVironment? I worked with him for a while, but he left the company about a year ago.

I was down in Tampa las month with Kyu Ho tuning gains on his 9 inch MAV. He is a great pilot - those MAVs are not easy to fly manualy, much nicer when the autopilot is doing the job.

How do you know these guys?

Reed

I'm guessing you know Pete and Kuho then.

[space_case]

Are you talking about Pete P. at AeroVironment?

No , Pete I. from UF. He pretty much runs the MAV dept. there.

How do you know these guys?

I studied and did graduate work there, some with Kuyho.

Do you own the Kestrel? Are you in business for yourself?

[Dave Jones]

His name is Dr.Peter Ifju he works with Micro Air Vehicles and Small UAVs at the University of Florida.
Very nice guy.
Dave Jones
AUAV.net

[reedchristiansen]

Sorry about the double post...

I don't own the Kestrel, but I do work for the company that licenced the autopilot technology from BYU. The name of the company is Procerus Technologies. We have three engineers like myself and one business guy.

I know Peter I. from the MAV competitions. I have not worked with him much, but I have worked with a few other people at U. F. that you probably know as well. Some pretty cool little airplanes. That would be a great school to get a masters from if you like small things that fly.

Here is a link to the TACMAV UAV I mentioned in an earlier post.

http://www.ara.com/mpsp/ECD/seg/TACMAVOverview.htm

Reed


No , Pete I. from UF. He pretty much runs the MAV dept. there.



I studied and did graduate work there, some with Kuyho.

Do you own the Kestrel? Are you in business for yourself?

[elossam]

Does anyone know what happened to http://www.continentalctrls.com/ and his TGE system? discontinued? still on the market but not publicited? last updated on his web are dated on year 2007 and nobody answers the e-mails now.