World Models Zero 60 [Archive]

CUBANO8

Sep 12, 2005, 08:32 PM

I just got back from my LHS, in which I picked up a WM zero 60 size plane :)

I gotta say I've been eyeing this bird for quite a while, and when I saw the price tag at $219.00 I couldn't resist. I've been going back and forth thru ebay trying to get one of these at a bargain price, and I never thought that my LHS would have one at that price.

My setup will be:

Motor: AXI 4130/16
ESC: Jeti advance plus 70 opto
Battery: Undecided, but thinking of 2; 3s3p 11.1v 6000mah in series to get 22.2volts total.

No Ubec on this one, I will have a seperate rx battery pack.
The rest of the gear is your standard Futaba setup.

The Landing gear is factory installed, but, it is going to go, I want to try for something a bit on the sturdy side, maybe air retracts, also undecided.

Other than that everything should be straight forward. This is my second WM plane, and I'm just loving it. The quality is superior than most ARF's I've seen up to now :)

The control surfaces, and hinges are allready installed for you, so that should cut down on some time. The fuselage is fiberglass, and it is quite solid, with interior braces that hold it quite well. Not like the GSP fuselage, that feel a bit intimidating, and weak.
Flaps are also installed with it, so that should be a new one for me.
The cowling is quite protected from transportation with a clear plastic around it. Plenty of decals for a few schemes.
The only thing that I didn't like so far is the pilot. It looks more like a modern jet pilot :o

This is what I have so far for the weights:

Horizontal stab and elevator: 3.9oz
Vertical stab and rudder: .9oz
Left wing: 14.7oz
right wing: 13.9oz
cowling: 4.6oz
canopy: 2.2oz
fuselage: 1lb 10.1oz
misc assy: 12.3oz

Here are some pics....

CUBANO8

Sep 12, 2005, 08:35 PM

More pics.....

CUBANO8

Sep 12, 2005, 08:37 PM

more pics.....

CUBANO8

Sep 12, 2005, 08:38 PM

more pics...

CUBANO8

Sep 12, 2005, 08:42 PM

Forgot my total on the weights. So far I got 4.9125 lbs, almost 5lbs empty, without anything.

the Swamp Fox

Sep 13, 2005, 12:28 PM

that's a nice big bird ~ !

I've heard that WM has the best factory installed retracts in ARFs.

I'm going to do the .60 Spitfire .

hehehe, yeah that pilot is a little cheesy .

Good luck and look forward to your project !

CUBANO8

Sep 13, 2005, 04:44 PM

Thanks SF,

I too was thinking of there spitfire, I keep seeing it on ebay for a similiar price as the zero that I bought.
My problem with the retracts is the grass field I fly from. In the summer the grass here grows fast, and the soil is soft, especially with these afternoon TS. So I've been having some success with oleo struts mech, and air, with large wheels 3" to 3 1/4" size. I have to go that route. Most of the guys at the club get frustrated with the retracts, and just install fixed gears, bent forward. I personally don't like it, and it has become somewhat of a challenge for me, so I'm going to stick with the retracts until they work. I've read in the RC universe forums that someone had success with the great planes mech retracts, over the WM product. I don't know, this is my 1st WM model with retracts.

I look forward in seeing your spitfire, I hope you can start a Build thread on it.

Good Luck,
Sam

the Swamp Fox

Sep 13, 2005, 08:32 PM

My problem with the retracts is the grass field I fly from. In the summer the grass here grows fast, and the soil is soft, especially with these afternoon TS.

Yup,,,same problem here Sam ...

Not really the retracts but finding a good place to fly 'em..

My feild around the corner has a small dirt road for a strip, not really suited for .60 size . The local clubs have awful grass AND the ground is not level . ,,, only really good for giant scale .. Do have one spot with a paved runway but thats 50 miles.... Oh well ,,,If I don't fly 'em ,I can't crash 'em right ?

Spitfire is behind a CMP Super Chipmunk,Aeronaut Panther and a s400 plane ...

Take care and good luck ~

Henry

Synwpn

Sep 13, 2005, 10:12 PM

i've been eyeing this plane! definitely will be reading along here.

CUBANO8

Sep 14, 2005, 12:04 AM

Ok, here we go...
I've been studying the retract project for this plane, and I'm going to go with Robart 606HD, 85deg air retracts, with the Robart 650 straight robo struts:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXES05&P=0

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXES65&P=V

http://www.robart.com/retracts/drawings/605.pdf

http://www.robart.com/RoboStruts/drawings/650.pdf

This should be a drop in fit, with a slight mod to the wing. The dimensions on the exsisting wing gear mount is 1 3/4" by 1 5/8". The exsisting wheel well is about 2 3/4" in diameter. So, I dremeled out the fiberglass wheel well to see how wide I can go from the wing spar to the back of the leading edge, and it seemed like I could get a 3" wheel to fit :)
Looking at how WM configured the retracts on this plane, I noticed the exsisting retract wire had a forward bend to it. This is also apparent on the wing, so I'm going to have to do some major modifications to fit a straight strut in the wing.
I might just try to move the gear mount hole on the wing slightly foward, and maybe lift the back of the gear mount slightly, so upon extending the gear forward, the gear can go past the leading edge.

CUBANO8

Sep 14, 2005, 12:08 AM

Here are more pics...

CUBANO8

Sep 14, 2005, 06:40 PM

I made a 3" diameter template, and aligned it over the exsisting wheel well, right up to the edge of the spar. I traced around it with a pin, so you could just see the imprint on the covering. Then I tested the diameter, by inserting pins on the trace to see if there was going to be interference with the spar, and leading edge.
Once satisfied, I drew in the trace with a pen, and started to dremel out the well, and strut channel. I cut out the channel to get more of a visual inside the wing. I had to cut a little into on of the ribs, but I'm going to add reinforcement to that part later on.
Then I got a test 3" foam wheel, to see the fit, and it looked good.

CUBANO8

Sep 14, 2005, 06:47 PM

I also went to my LHS today, and picked up a pair of the robart 606 air retracts. These are 85degrees, so they should work fine in the wings.
I'm still a little hesitant on which struts to use, either the straight or the offset ones. The reasoning for the offset ones are so the wheels need not set all the way in the well, like the straights one will. Since I'm getting close to the leading edge, space is getting limited. I'll have to decide once I get the retracts installed, purchase the wheels, and measure them out.

drksyd

Sep 15, 2005, 12:08 AM

Envious to see another big bird coming up. I didn't know WM had planes with glass fuses.
Good choice going with the 3" wheels, I'd say that's the minimum you need to get through some foliage. Good luck with the retracts. If you can fit the offset struts you would decrease the chance of nose overs.

CUBANO8

Sep 15, 2005, 12:20 AM

Thanks drksyd,

I'm gonna need all the luck I can with them, and theres been alot of foliage growing around here lately. I would go even bigger if I could, but then I'll be biting off a chunk of spar, and I don't want to do that, so 3" will have to do.

Sam

drksyd

Sep 15, 2005, 01:21 AM

Are you going to use those super lite tires? If the weight of the plane compresses them too much they'll be worse than the stock tires.

CUBANO8

Sep 15, 2005, 09:11 AM

Are you going to use those super lite tires? If the weight of the plane compresses them too much they'll be worse than the stock tires.

No, I'm going to pickup a pair of the H9 pro lite 3" tires. Hopefully today.

CUBANO8

Sep 15, 2005, 05:28 PM

I was able to stop at my LHS today, and picked up a pair of the H9 3" pro-lite wheels. They were a tad bit over 3", so I had to widen up the well a little with sand paper. It's not a really tight fit, but I'm gonna have to be precise on the retract mount install, in order so the wheel can go in, and out of the well without getting jammed up.
I've also decided that the offset struts are going to have to be a definate yes, on this project.

drksyd

Sep 16, 2005, 12:14 AM

Those look like they'll work great. You might have to open up the wheel well a little more for the wheel to clear as it folds in. With the bent gear this should be a real stable ground handler.

CUBANO8

Sep 16, 2005, 09:13 AM

Those look like they'll work great. You might have to open up the wheel well a little more for the wheel to clear as it folds in. With the bent gear this should be a real stable ground handler.

Yea, I thought of the same thing too. I'll have to wait untill the stuts arrive, to work on it.

Sam

CUBANO8

Sep 16, 2005, 09:27 PM

I started the motor mount measurements. I've decided to order my mount thru Esprit Models:http://www.espritmodel.com/accesories_alum_motormount.html

Here's a picture:

CUBANO8

Sep 16, 2005, 09:34 PM

The Instructions call for a measurement of 115mm from the back of the prop to the firewall. The back of the prop to the front of the motor measures 3/4". The plates measure 1/8" each front, and rear. The ext rods need to be 3 3/16". Since they don't make 3 3/16" rods, I'm going to have to go with 3 1/2" rods instead. I could adjust the cowling later for the final fit.
I didn't go with the AXI mount assembly, because of the soft aluminum shafts. You could very easily strip the threads, by over-tightening them.

drksyd

Sep 17, 2005, 12:53 AM

I had the sam setup in my H9 Corsair. I've seen a lot of guys use the radial mount and use dowels, aluminum tubes or even blocks to get the motor to the right distance.
I like the Axi's since there's no need to deal with gearbox and ratio's but they are not the easiest to mount. I like the clam shell mount for in runners that you just bolt to the stock IC motor mount.

CUBANO8

Sep 17, 2005, 08:28 PM

CUBANO8

Sep 17, 2005, 08:40 PM

I got several things ordered, couldn't get the struts locally, so I'll have to wait. I'm going to go with two 3s3p 6000mah TP Li-Po in series to get the voltage of 6cell or 22.2volts, they come out to 12.9oz each, so thats going to be a total of 1 lb 9oz. Its going to be comparable to my SA Corsair, so a target weight of 8lbs is what I'll be looking for.
I also ordered some servos, a RX, and a 6v 1650 nimh pack for my RX.
It will be probably next week before things should be starting to arrive.

Here's the link for the Li-Po pack:
http://parts.rctoys.com/rc-toys-hobbies/Items/410285?

drksyd

Sep 17, 2005, 10:10 PM

This is the only pic I have and all you see is the front plate that the motor mounts to. Too bad didn't take one with cowl off.
The only thing I would do differently would be to use a lipo and regulator for the rx pack.

CUBANO8

Sep 17, 2005, 10:18 PM

Yeah, thats very nice. I wish I'd had better luck with my H9 Corsair, on the 6th flight the wing folded on it. I was dissapointed.

drksyd

Sep 19, 2005, 12:34 PM

Mine didn't last too long either. One of the magnets on the Axi came off and doubled up with another so not much power after that. Tried to bring her around but ended up in a flat spin and in she went.

CUBANO8

Sep 19, 2005, 01:11 PM

Ouch! That's too bad. This issue with the AXI motors is quite concerning. I've heard of this before, but have not exp this. I try to run them at specs, not going over the rated amperage or voltage. I've heard some people say that the AXI specs are conservative, and that you could run them up past the specs. I also understand that cooling is an important issue, but being an open cowling like that, I don't think it would be an issue at all.
I guess its like the H9 Corsair, some failed, and some didn't.

CUBANO8

Sep 19, 2005, 08:43 PM

Well, since I'm waiting on parts to arrive, I got a little anxious, and started back on the retract wing mount. I guess I could get it pre-cut until the struts arrive. So I started by sawing off the exsisting front retract support from the wing. Once cut, I started eye-balling the retract on the wing to see how much of the top sheeting I needed to reomove. I drew a line, and proceeded to cut away. I placed the retract back in the wing to see how much sheeting I needed to remove to accomodate the front of the retract.

CUBANO8

Sep 19, 2005, 08:48 PM

Now the retracts fit completely in the wing, and I can get any angle I want to it. I will add supports to the ribs later when the retract is finally in. Maybe a little fiberglassing in this area might help some.

CUBANO8

Sep 19, 2005, 08:49 PM

final pics...

CUBANO8

Sep 20, 2005, 10:18 PM

The only parts that I got today was a single TP 3s3p 6000mah pack. I was surprised that Fedex delivered in the middle of "Rita". Anyways, here are the actuals for the pack;

Weight: 13.3oz
Length: 7 3/4"
Width: 1 7/8"
Height: 3/4"

CUBANO8

Sep 20, 2005, 10:27 PM

I'm going to try to mount these packs from the inside of the fuselage, thru the firewall, and out, so I can adjust them to get the proper CG if necessary. I'm finding this is usually the case with these warbird kits that they need most of the weight up front to get the CG right.
I placed the battery against the firewall to mark it, both on the top, and bottom, to see how much I'm going to have to cut away.
Also this can determine if my motor mount will interfere at all with it. Hopefully I should get the motor mount assembly tomorrow, so no cutting yet.
I also tested the pack in the inside of the fuselage, and as you can see, there is plenty of space available.

CUBANO8

Sep 22, 2005, 09:47 PM

I got some parts in today, but not all. I did get my 2nd Li-Po pack, and I installed the connector, charged it, and did a weight comparison. They both are exactly 13.3oz, so both packs come in at 1lb 10.5oz.

CUBANO8

Sep 22, 2005, 09:54 PM

I also got 1/2 of the strut I ordered. The other strut, Tower made a mistake, and sent me a straight strut. They are going to get it right, and ship me another one. Luckily the one I got is for the wing that I started, so I started back to the retract installation.
First thing I did was to get the wheel fitted. I noticed the axle was too big, so that meant I had to widen the wheel hole for it to fit right. I used a 3/16inch bit for that procces. Once done I installed the wheel, and noticed that the axle was protruding about 1/4inch. I was able to cut and grind the excess off.

CUBANO8

Sep 22, 2005, 10:43 PM

Once satisfied with the wheel installation. I proceeded in eyeing the strut and retract mechanisim, to see how much strut needed to be cut off. I also noticed that I had to cut out a small "V" on the bottom wing sheeting to fit the torque link when retracted. Then I started to measure the spot where I had to make the cut on my strut, where the base of the retract mechanism was. Once I marked, I measured to the spring stop on the inside of the strut, and realized I had a problem.
The mark was exactly at the stop, so that only meant one thing. I had to move the retract mechanism towards the wing tip at least 1/2inch. Upon inspecting the inside of the wing, I had at least that amount before touching the rib. I proceeded in cutting the sheeting towards the rib. Once cut, I examined it to make sure thee were no cuts or weakness visable, in which there wasn't.

CUBANO8

Sep 22, 2005, 10:49 PM

I tested the retract mechanism in the new cut, and everything appeared ok.
I went ahead, and cut the retract wire, about 1/2 inch from the base, and cut the strut to the measured length.
Now came the test of the retract, and the strut. I noticed that the stut needed to be shaven off 1/16inch to get it to fit properly in the well along with the retract mechanism. I was happy to see that it was going to work after all.(well at least the fit) :)

CUBANO8

Sep 22, 2005, 10:57 PM

I proceeded in getting the JB weld, so I could cold weld the adapter bushing to the strut. This part is straight forward, and is explained very well in the robart instructions. The only thing, was that you have to use a hammer to get that insert all the way in, and I'm talking about a good wallop or two.
Now I'll let the JB weld set overnight, and tomorrow I'll drill the holes on the side of the strut, and tap it. This is for my set screws to secure the strut to the wire.

the Swamp Fox

Sep 24, 2005, 07:00 PM

looking very ,very nice Cuban

continued g'luck ...

:)

CUBANO8

Sep 24, 2005, 10:11 PM

looking very ,very nice Cuban

continued g'luck ...

:)

Thanks for those encouraging words :)

Sam

CUBANO8

Sep 24, 2005, 10:21 PM

Its time to complete the retracts. I start by marking the holes I'm going to drill for the set screws, then drilling them with a #36 bit. This process is explained in the robart instructions. Once drilled, I tapped it with a #6-32 tap, and installed the set screws. After this, I removed the exsisting cut wire from the retract mechanism, and grinded the side of the wire contacting the set screws on the strut, flat. Again, all this is explained in the instructions.
Once done, I secured the strut, to the retract mechanism tightly for the final fit. You can adjust the direction of the wheel/strut by loosening the center set screw on the retract mechanism, and turning it either direction.

Now it came to the retract wing installation.

CUBANO8

Sep 24, 2005, 10:33 PM

Now it came to the retract in wing installation. I knew this was not going to be easy, because I would have to get the supporting blocks just the right fit in the wings. So, after a couple of attempts, I came up with a two piece hardwood block for the rear, and a single block for the front. I started on the rear, and glued the two pieces with gorilla glue. Next, I attached the retract to the hardwood block with screws, marked and drilled the hole for the air hose passage on the side air port on the retract.

CUBANO8

Sep 24, 2005, 10:41 PM

Once satisfied with the hradwood block, I proceeded in the gluing of it to the wing. This process was also done using gorilla glue. The front retract support hardwood was one piece, and easier to make. This was held to the wing using a generous amount of gorilla glue. In so much, that when it kicked off, and foamed, it filled in the gap between the front block and the leading edge.

Next time I'll run the air hoses, and test it. I will try to post a video of the test.

CUBANO8

Sep 24, 2005, 10:48 PM

on a side note to the gorilla glue...

I start mixing this with a genorous amount of water, for about 30 sec. Then I pour out the water, and stir it around until it just starts to kick. Then I add some more drops of water, and stir it around for another 30 sec. Pour out the water, and continue to stir, until I'm ready to apply. I could wait 'til it expands up a bit, and then apply it to my final, or apply it before it starts to expand.
With this method, I don't have to wait a long time for it to set.

drksyd

Sep 25, 2005, 02:47 AM

Looking good Cuban. I ordered a set of mechanical retracts from FTE for MA and will use the Oleo's I have. The struts didn't come with instructions so I'm glad you went through the steps here.
PU glue and water is great stuff. The Pro Bond PU glue would really foam up with just a couple drops of water.

CUBANO8

Sep 25, 2005, 10:32 AM

PU glue and water is great stuff. The Pro Bond PU glue would really foam up with just a couple drops of water.

Thanks drksyd,

I haven't used Pro Bond. Is it better strength than Gorilla glue, or is it the same strength?

Sam

CUBANO8

Sep 25, 2005, 04:45 PM

Before I run the air hoses, and test it, I decided to strengthen the ribs, do some cosmetics, and fiberglass the wing retract area.

CUBANO8

Sep 25, 2005, 04:47 PM

The fiberglassing consisted of z-poxy, and .75oz cloth, that I cut into strips, and apply them with the z-poxy to the ribs, top sheeting, leading edge, wing spar, and ribs all inside the wing retract area.

drksyd

Sep 25, 2005, 05:42 PM

I'm not sure if one is better than the other but I think they stopped making the Pro Bond PU. I bought some Gorilla glue instead but haven't tried it with water yet. I've heard a lot of people say Gorilla glue is the best so I have to go with the concensus.
This side almost done then the other side should be a little faster. Next thing you know the motors mounted and ready for maiden.

CUBANO8

Oct 01, 2005, 04:43 PM

Getting back to this build, I didn't get my other strut in this week :confused:
but I did do some cosmetic work on the retract well.
I used super-light micro-fill to fill in the gaps. I also added some balsa sheets inside the strut well,torque link well, and around the wheel well, then I filled in the gaps with the micro-fill.

CUBANO8

Oct 01, 2005, 04:46 PM

Once dry, I sanded it smooth, and painted the inside well with Tamiya's Acrylic NATO green. I had plenty of this paint around, and had to put it to good use.

Here's a video link of the retract in action:
http://www.ercflight.com/wmzroret.wmv

Tommy D

Oct 01, 2005, 08:34 PM

My friend.... from someone whom completed <and ripped them right out!> his first pair of retracts... you do excellant work!!

Very, very nice!

Tommy

CUBANO8

Oct 01, 2005, 10:10 PM

My friend.... from someone whom completed <and ripped them right out!> his first pair of retracts... you do excellant work!!

Very, very nice!

Tommy

Thanks Tommy,

I've heard stories of them ripping out, so I had to reinforce them.

Sam

drksyd

Oct 01, 2005, 11:44 PM

I agree, looks really nice with it painted. The air lines really help in the scale dept too.

CUBANO8

Oct 02, 2005, 12:52 AM

Thanks again guys,

I started working on the firewall, and motor mount installation. I decided to open only one exit hole from the firewall, for only one Li-Po pack, so not to weaken the firewall itself. I accomplished this step with a drill, and dremel tool.
Then I placed the backplate, and drew out how much I needed to remove to accomodate the battery pack.

CUBANO8

Oct 02, 2005, 12:58 AM

I proceeded in constructing my mount, but ran into a small problem; the supplied mounting bolts were too long. I had to grind them down, one at a time, and then file them to fit the mounting arms. This step took awhile, but in the end, I wqs able to get the motor assembly installed to the firewall, with the motor attached.

Pilot44

Oct 02, 2005, 12:19 PM

CUBANO8

Oct 02, 2005, 01:16 PM

Heya Sam,

Coming along nicely, I pretty much am going the same route with the VQ Mig 3. Same motor, mount, using Spring Air 703 retracts here as they are ready to go. Originally was going to go with an OS .46AX till I deciced to go lectric here. I will get the build underway very soon, Everything has been back burner as my mother passed away last Sunday.

Good luck with this bird, I just read the entire thread with the P40. Bummer, it was a nice looking bird.

I will do a build thread on the Mig once underway...

Jim

Jim,

I am very sorry to hear about your Mom passing away. I will be looking forward for your build on the VQ Mig-3. They have same nice arfs, especially the P-38.

Sam :)

drksyd

Oct 03, 2005, 12:59 AM

Are you going to cut an access panel on fuse to get to the batteries? I was supposed to go the hobby shop to get a new saw blade but really hate to cut the fuse.

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 11:31 AM

Are you going to cut an access panel on fuse to get to the batteries? I was supposed to go the hobby shop to get a new saw blade but really hate to cut the fuse.

I'm at that stage now. It looks like I'm going to have to make some type of hatch at the top fuselage between the cowl, and the canopy. Just big enough to access the connectors, for disconnecting,connecting, and charging.
Another thought was to make an opening in the cockpit area, and using the canopy as an access hatch, but the canopy is a soft plastic material, and might not be suitable, unless I reinforce the edges.

I'll post pics later to see your thoughts on it.

And please if any other person reading this has a suggestion, I'm open to anything at this point.

Thanks,
Sam

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 05:37 PM

Before I get to the hatch issue, here's where I am so far.

I started on the cowling to fuselage assembly. You start out by attaching two aluminum plates inside the cowling by two screws, and lock nuts, for each plate. Once both plates are attached the cowling fits perfectly along the side walls of the firewall. I centered the cowling, by viewing it from the front, and sides, taking into account for prop clearance. Then I secured it in place with two screws.
I also installed my RX battery, with velcro. I'm using a 1650ma, 5cell(6volts) pack.

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 05:40 PM

Option #1:

Here's a pic of hatch option #1. I could cut an opening from the end of the cowling, to the tip of the canopy. My hatch measurements are 2" by 3"

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 05:56 PM

Hatch option#2:

Here's a pic of option #2. Cut an opening in the cockpit area 2 1/2" by 2 3/4", and access to the connectors will be accomplished by removing the 4 scews that hold the canopy to the fuselage.

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 05:58 PM

here's a pic of the canopy..

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 05:59 PM

Here's a pic of the inside of the fuselage showing both option#1 and option#2

CUBANO8

Oct 03, 2005, 06:03 PM

Let me know what you guys think. I'm also trying to find some small 1/4 turn studs and receptacle combo that I can take the place of those 4 screws, if option#2 is the way to go.

Thanks,
Sam

BTW, Just got in my other strut, so I can sit on this, 'til I get the strut on the other wing.

CUBANO8

Oct 04, 2005, 11:58 PM

Got the latch issue resolved..

Thanks to my friend Herm, for the Idea.

I bought two BVM spring latches, and mounted them just in front of the canopy. I also got a strip of brass 1/16" by 3/8", and glued them to the canopy. I then proceeded in drilling the holes on the strips for the latch pin, and I installed the canopy in place. The back of the canopy is supported by a "U" pin thru the antenna mast.

drksyd

Oct 05, 2005, 12:18 AM

Nice. You could even close up the canopy with a pilot figure in it and cover up the hole.

CUBANO8

Oct 14, 2005, 01:02 AM

Back to the build...

I was able to complete the other retract assembly, using the same method as on the first wing.
Once that was done, it was time to install the aileron servos, one per wing. The aileron servo installation was straight forward like most aileron installs out there.
Once that was done, it was time to glue the two wings together. I used gorilla glue for this process also. I applied an ample amount to the wing joiner, and the sides. I then used clamps to hold the two halves in place. I'll let it set overnight, and work on my flaps next.

CUBANO8

Oct 14, 2005, 10:00 PM

Once the glue on the wings set, I started on the flap install. With the already "Y" metal rod supplied, which controls both flaps, it was very simple. I attached the clevis on the rods, and attached the control horn rings. Then I measured the length to the servo arm, made my bend, and cut the excess off. I then attached the supporting straps, and fuel tube pieces.
The hardest part was programming my radio, getting end points, and travel percentages, right.
I am using a two-position switch on my radio, to give me 10mm travel(1/2 recommended travel), and 20mm(full travel).

I will add elevator mixing after several initial flap testing flights.

hermperez

Oct 14, 2005, 10:59 PM

hermperez

Oct 14, 2005, 11:44 PM

Pull Up, Pull Up!

CUBANO8

Oct 15, 2005, 12:10 AM

Looks good sam, I hate dual rates.. I prefer mild expo (so it does not feel weird), expo is like automatic dual rates. The problem with dual rates is that you forget you have them on low when you are landing and then you get in trouble, or viceversa. FLARE SAM, FLARE!! :)

Ready to fly it on sunday?, I'm looking for some fiberglass for the wing center section of the twinstar..

Herm

Sunday!, I doubt it, I still have probably another 2 weeks on this bird before the maiden.

No dual rates for me this is going to be finger sensitive, how I like it ;)

Now the twinstar should be ready for Sunday, right?!?

There are so many twins poping up all around lately, makes me want to hit the buy button :D But, no, no more space, real estate in my house is becoming a valuable commodity :(

See ya Sunday!
Sam :)

the Swamp Fox

Oct 15, 2005, 11:11 AM

looking really nice Cuban .

your hatch is just too slick !

very cool .

continued good luck :)

CUBANO8

Oct 15, 2005, 12:31 PM

Thanks SF.

I got the decals on the wings applied, and I put the final wing on the scale to get a weight of 2lbs 9.7oz.

CUBANO8

Oct 15, 2005, 11:26 PM

Completed working on my second battery li-po tray, inside the fuselage. The first li-po will be secured to the motor mount. I install three 1/4" x 1/2" hardwood inside the fuselage to support the Li-Po tray. Then I glued the tray, and added velcro to secure the Li-Po battery.

CUBANO8

Oct 16, 2005, 01:06 AM

I got the rudder servo installed. This is not the location that is called for in the instructions, but I wanted to keep things clear from the retract air bottle which is going to be installed in the center of the fuselage. I also went ahead, and installed my reciever, and secured it with velcro. The antenna wire is supported in a plastic tubing, and routed towards the tail of the fuselage. I will secure everything down with tie wraps later.

drksyd

Oct 16, 2005, 05:40 AM

Coming along quickly now. You could probably maiden tomorrow at this rate.

hermperez

Oct 16, 2005, 10:55 AM

Sam is a machine!

Sam, have you considered hanging up planes in the living and dining room?, the girls room would be good too.. I'm sure your wife would not mind :) You need to plan ahead for those future IMAA 80" wingspan warbirds that are coming. This Bronco would look good over the dining room table:

http://www.hobbyhangar.com/test/acc.htm

Herm

CUBANO8

Oct 16, 2005, 01:05 PM

Its getting that way already. Maybe make my house into an RC museum. That Bronco sure looks nice.

drksyd

Oct 16, 2005, 01:13 PM

I hope you're looking at the bigger one, very nice. A couple of 4130's will do it good.

CUBANO8

Oct 16, 2005, 11:07 PM

I decided to install the control valve/servo combo on a 3/6 plywood, held by scews to the inside of the fuselage, for quick removal, in case I needed to adjust or change anything on it. I am using a small servo hitec HS-55. The control valve was glued in placed to the plywood, and also supported by two telco wires, for strength.
Then I drilled two holes for my hoses, attached them to the control valve, routed the hoses, and servo wires to the front, and secured the assembly inside the fuselage with four screws.
I then worked on the air tank install, by supporting it with plywood, and velcro straps to the inside of the fuselage. It can be quickly removed if neccesary. I also drilled the hole on the bottom of the fuselage for the fill valve.

CUBANO8

Oct 17, 2005, 11:02 PM

tail feathers installed....

CUBANO8

Oct 18, 2005, 10:50 PM

Back to the build...
I got some air intake scopes installed on the front of the fuselage, and opened an exit vent at the rear. I also Installed the elevator servo, opposite side to the rudder servo..

CUBANO8

Oct 20, 2005, 10:20 PM

Got the elevators attached. I also installed my RX battery switch, cut my access hole on the fuselage, and installed my ESC.

CUBANO8

Oct 20, 2005, 10:23 PM

Well I also temporary put everything together, just to satisfy my CG curiosity. And it was nose heavy, Huurahh!! Now I know I could shift things back, especially the Li-Po's :)

CUBANO8

Oct 20, 2005, 10:26 PM

guapoman2000

Oct 20, 2005, 10:43 PM

I also did an initial power test. I used a MA 14x8 K-series for this, and this is my results:

1/4 throttle - 24.9volts - 2amps - 51watts

1/2 throttle - 24.1volts - 10amps - 242watts

3/4 & Full throttle showed the same results

22.2volts - 30amps - 690watts

I'm going to try a bigger prop, I'll post the results.
Any suggestions?

You are going to Love the Master Airscrew "K" Series as this is what I fly my good old World Models Sky Raider Mach-II (yes, I still have it and fly her :D ) and it out performs the APC "E" propeller of same size/pitch at the cost of slightly more AMP draw.

Going larger propeller would deminish efficiency on that AXI Direct Drive setup. Well, it all depends if you are looking for speed and some Thrust or a balance of Thrust and decient air speed.

I would measure the Propeller RPM's.......would not quit until at least 7,500 RPMs can be obtained. More is better you can always throttle back! ;)

Carlos :cool:

ticketec

Oct 20, 2005, 10:52 PM

guapoman2000

Oct 20, 2005, 10:52 PM

Assuming you are flying her with 5S3P Li-POLYs and the MAS 14 X 10 then, you have about under 6,000 RPMs at the propeller.....this is of course an estimating on-line P-Calc tool and I highly recommend to measure the propeller with a good optical tach.

Here's the P-Calc estimate....we don't want to see this nice war bird stall at the first maiden flight! :o

EDIT: With the MAS 14 X 10 it seems to have at least 55 MPH prop speed...don't know if this is enough? :confused:

guapoman2000

Oct 20, 2005, 10:58 PM

Good move replacing the std retracts. I have a WM zero for about 1-1/2 years now and have replaced them not long after getting it.

I would angle your gear a little forward too because she really does like to nose over on landing.

I'm sure that yours will come out under my models weight because i've got an OS 91 FS w/pump in her........ plenty of power.

I have also found that (maybe due to all the weight in mine) that she doesn't slow up all that well. I cut my throttle about 1/2 down the downwind leg of the circuit.

I think we are talking about the same size World Models ZERO.....

The one at my club field comes in like a kite...she slows down very nice and smooth "and" the owner is able to power up with flaps down and gear down for another pass...it is something to see she is almost as slow as some lighter Electric models :D

Check out:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4293697&postcount=52

and...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4293684&postcount=51

and....
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4293703&postcount=53

CUBANO8

Oct 20, 2005, 11:13 PM

CUBANO8

Oct 20, 2005, 11:17 PM

guapoman2000

Oct 20, 2005, 11:20 PM

Thanks Carlos,

I'm going to tach it as well and post the results. I'm using two 3s3p 6000mah in series.
You guys are having too much fun in Orlando, I'm gonna have to visit you guys one day. I'll bring Herm along too.

You are welcome to come.....I became member of the Orlando R/C Associates (ORCA) and it is a fantastic field.....the members invested in careful water drainage such that you can fly right after a good downpour!

Okay, so your battery setup is a 6S3P much better!!!!

Almost 7,000 RPMs at the propeller and 64+ MPH top speed!!! :eek:

However, your AMPs should be closer to 35 - 38 Amps @ Wide Open.

Better than 7.8 lbs. of thrust! :D

Here's the revisted P-Calc estimator. :)

CUBANO8

Oct 20, 2005, 11:24 PM

Thanks again,

I'll visit my LHS tomorrow, and pick up a 14x10, and post the results. Yea 55 -60mph is fine with me.

Sam

ticketec

Oct 20, 2005, 11:44 PM

I think we are talking about the same size World Models ZERO.....

The one at my club field comes in like a kite...she slows down very nice and smooth "and" the owner is able to power up with flaps down and gear down for another pass...it is something to see she is almost as slow as some lighter Electric models :D

Check out:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4293697&postcount=52

and...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4293684&postcount=51

and....
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4293703&postcount=53

We are, The difference being that your have the later version of teh kit with flaps. I would kill to have flaps on mine.

What spinner are you going to use/or have? I would like a more scale spinner but haven't found one better than what i have fitted.

thanks

guapoman2000

Oct 20, 2005, 11:50 PM

We are, The difference being that your have the later version of teh kit with flaps. I would kill to have flaps on mine.

What spinner are you going to use/or have? I would like a more scale spinner but haven't found one better than what i have fitted.

thanks

Yes, go ahead and e-mail the owner of that wonderful WM ZERO at my club.

His e-mail is:

David Kreitz" <dkreitz@cfl.rr.com>

Perhaps he would be able to provide more details and suggestions... :) His ZERO is powered by a 4-cycle "GAS" Engine but, I don't recall what size. :confused:

drksyd

Oct 21, 2005, 12:42 AM

David from HL is flying the AT-6 with a 16x10 I believe but most people opt for the 15x10 APC's. The MA props do draw more amps and give you more thrust and speed than the APC's, just want to be sure the amp draw is not too high.

CUBANO8

Oct 21, 2005, 09:28 AM

We are, The difference being that your have the later version of teh kit with flaps. I would kill to have flaps on mine.

What spinner are you going to use/or have? I would like a more scale spinner but haven't found one better than what i have fitted.

thanks

I couldn't really find a spinner that was scale. The only thing I found was a spinner with a sort-of round nose to it that ressembled it closely. It came from the HL 6 pack of assorted spinners.