How do you launch a sailplane from flat ground? [Archive]

tomtom

May 06, 2002, 10:35 PM

If you are not talking about HLG or Hand Launched Gliders, the most common method to get a thermal glider aloft is "Hy-START". This nothing more than a length of laytex tubing tied to a length of twine. One end is staked in the ground (tubing end) then it's streched, going down wind. Attach the glider using a small hook fastened to the belly of the plane. When the sailplane is thrown into the wind, the streched tubing pulls the glider into the air. The length of the Hy-START varies, mine is 100 ft of latex tubing and 300 ft. of twine. I strech mine about 300- 350 ft., so you need a good bit of space, but this length will put the glider up to about 400 ft. on a good launch. Shorter Hy-STARTS are available check out Tower Hobbies and some of the other on-liner retailers a Google search for HY_Start could be interesting. Finnaly get some help. Find a club nearby, most club members are very willing to help someone get started.

R. Carver

May 06, 2002, 10:53 PM

Check out www.soarmd.org .

Most clubs also have a winch and retriever setup. Winches give much higher launches than a hi-start, and a retriever saves you from having to walk back for the parachute all day.

Thermalin

Feb 03, 2005, 09:55 PM

I use a Standard upstart for my 2meter planes.. works very well... 25ft of tubing.. 200 ft of monofilament... stretch to about 275 or 280 total feet and away she goes... just get more rubber (lifting power than you need). For instance.. the std hi-start is for planes under 100"... the 2m is for 72" and under... the 100" version is better for 2 meter.. better to be at the low end of the range and have the extra pull than at the high end and have the rubber struggling. I usually casually stroll toward the chute as i fly.. and plane and chute are ready again... Winches are nice but expen$$$ive and a hassle if you want to get a couple flights in before dinner...

I use the 2meter hi-start for my 60" hlg planes... gets them way up in a hurry.. I fly at middle school that has a nice field and sourrounded by a track.. the school building is of to the side of the track with gobs of flat "black" roof and is a thermal generating machine...

Go for it.. it's a rush... just keep it going up straight with rudder.. and not much elevator or you will most likely "pop" the line... sure to take a couple years off your life.... lol...
Mike

soholingo

Feb 04, 2005, 12:29 AM

You should try a brushless motor and lipos.... :)

Amazing...

Miami Mike

Feb 04, 2005, 12:41 AM

Soholingo, do you have any pure gliders? Have you ever specked out a plane that had no motor or propeller? Believe me, it's an entirely different experience - much more satisfying.

soholingo

Feb 04, 2005, 12:44 AM

Not yet Mike, I have been contemplating it though. After I get this last monster into the air, I may pull back a bit and do the DLG thing....

Jay

Stuntman

Feb 04, 2005, 12:45 AM

For the big stuff, we aerotow. But geez I am wanting to electrify one of my 4m+ scaleys. Its just soooooo much easier.

Most other stuff we use a winch at our club. Walking to get the chute is good exercise. In fact its about the only exercise most of our club members get. LOL :)

But then thewind changes and you have to wind in the chute and reorganise everything. PIA. Electric gliders are sooooo much easier. (Did I already say that...)

Histarts are good and easy too (I like histarts for smaller models). They are however especially good when it goes all wrong and the histart drags your model along the ground smashing it to pieces for 30 or so metres. At least with a winch you can stop it.

cheers, Shawn

soholingo

Feb 04, 2005, 12:46 AM

Histarts are good and easy too (I like histarts for smaller models). They are however especially good when it goes all wrong and the histart drags your model along the ground smashing it to pieces for 30 or so metres. At least with a winch you can stop it.

cheers, Shawn

That's great, just the answer I need to cap off the night :)

Jay

Stuntman

Feb 04, 2005, 12:49 AM

Agree with Mike

Landing a boomer and specing out with a "pure" glider sure is a satisfying experiance. Hard to beat.

I too am thinking of getting a DLG at some stage. Just for fun....

Stuntman

Feb 04, 2005, 12:53 AM

That's great, just the answer I need to cap off the night :)

Jay

Don't ask how I know....

But I have seen others do it, and despite that it has smashed up there model and your full of symphaphy for the happless victim, it is quite funny to watch. (especially when they chase after it trying to stop it :rolleyes: )

soholingo

Feb 04, 2005, 12:59 AM

Don't ask how I know....

But I have seen others do it, and despite that it has smashed up there model and your full of symphaphy for the happless victim, it is quite funny to watch. (especially when they chase after it trying to stop it :rolleyes: )

LMAO!!!!

I can just see them now yelling "no... no... NOOOO!!!! STOP!!!! STOPPP!!!!""

raschow

Feb 04, 2005, 01:15 AM

You should try a brushless motor and lipos.... :)

Amazing...

A typical winch launch involves a large (Gp27) 12v lead-acid battery dumping 350-400A (at full pedal) into a Ford long shaft truck starter motor. The result is fairly impressive.... Good Lift!

David Taylor

Feb 04, 2005, 02:13 AM

Stuntman,
What I find even more satisfying is not landing a boomer but the so called Gopher fart and being able to work it up.
Its a really good feeling to finally be able to breathe again having gotten some altitude and looking at your timer on the radio and realising that it took you over 10 minutes to climb 4-500 feet.
I don't think that I have ever concentrated harder on what im doing than when im working very light lift, Very rewarding.

Dave Taylor

Stuntman

Feb 04, 2005, 06:33 AM

Dave,

I know where you are coming from. I was a comp a couple of years ago and came off the winch early the second time in that round. I was rounding the mark to come in and call it quits for that round when there was a tinny little wing lift so I turned back into it and held a really tight ever slowly going up thermal. I must have only been 10feet of the deck when I got it. Man I worked hard but I punched out and got a max for that round. That probably ranks as my most memorable, most rewarding one.

Jay you need to get a F3B, F3J or thermal comp, just watching the guys launch is awesome. The amount of power they drive into their machines has to be seen to be believed, and when they ping off they still have enough energy to climb that height again. Awesome

Shawn

Bert

Feb 04, 2005, 12:27 PM

I know you're going to contact www.SoarCASA.org right?
We have an electric sailplane (F5J) and an AMA TD Sailplane contest each month (usually the 3rd Sunday, but check the Calendar).

Bert

soholingo

Feb 04, 2005, 02:16 PM

I know you're going to contact www.SoarCASA.org right?
We have an electric sailplane (F5J) and an AMA TD Sailplane contest each month (usually the 3rd Sunday, but check the Calendar).

Bert

Bert,

I am going to go DLG first, then maybe I may try the lines/winches. I am dieing to see an F3b launch. But I do have my electrified stratos for those big plane days...

MDM

Feb 04, 2005, 06:57 PM

http://www.downeastsoaring.org/Videos/Dennis_Phelan_F3BSpeed.wmv

http://ycsoaring.com/media/Movie/Dennis_F3B-Launch_Loops.wmv

partoftheproblem

Feb 04, 2005, 08:21 PM

Jay,

Attach a tow line to one of your high powered F3B planes and syncronize launch your sailplane behind it... :D

Eric

Stuntman

Feb 05, 2005, 06:45 AM

One of my favourite vids
http://193.215.54.10/jogrini/video/pikelaunch.wmv

Stuntman

Feb 05, 2005, 06:57 AM

Another good one of launchs. Great track to go with it (9.5mb though)

http://www.workflow.as/jogrini/video/throws_f3x.wmv

David Taylor

Feb 05, 2005, 11:42 AM

Thermalin

Feb 05, 2005, 01:55 PM

I would love to try a winch.. just no room.... I must say have never had my pride and joy(s) dragged across the gound yet.. (never entered my mind really)... with that said.. I'm sure its going to happen next time out.
Mike

Stuntman

Feb 06, 2005, 07:08 AM

It usually hapopens to noobs who want to launch without assistance, or when you forget to turn the the TX or RX on. Its etched onto my brain to do the wiggle-wiggle before launching these days. :)

sierra-gold

Feb 06, 2005, 09:56 AM

Interesting... I get the same thrill from coring a thermal with my EP glider as I did with my "pure glider" a few years back. :)

To me the EP system is just another launching tool. It just doesn't require the "support" that the winch or highstart does.

With the new small RC gear, brushless motors, and LiPo packs, the "ballast" penalty for EP is really quite small. Climb out to 500-600 feet is quiet, fairly quick, and no "chute to shag."

I am a convert. :)

SG

Thermalin

Feb 06, 2005, 07:43 PM

5 or 600 ft... i think i could thermal a brick at that altitude.... just kidding... would be nice to just motor on up when needed....but it's sort like.... scoring with a drunk chick.. or the hottest one in the office... one takes a bit more effort.. and I think improves piloting skill down the road for one or two mistakes and your down.... I don't know.. just like real planes have round engines... real gliders don't have motors.... but that is what makes the world go round... various viewpoints...
Mike

SteveR

Feb 07, 2005, 04:33 PM

Jay, I'll have a 3-speed 12 volt winch up for sale at a very reasonable price at the WRAM show. Welded frame, aluminum hub. Comes complete with turnaround pulley.

Just bring your wallet,

Steve

WimH

Feb 07, 2005, 04:46 PM

Agree with Mike

Landing a boomer and specing out with a "pure" glider sure is a satisfying experiance. Hard to beat.

Can you explain what the difference is with a "non-pure" glider? I lauched my Junior sport plus straight into a thermal yesterday, about 30-40m high and worked the thermal until I was "up there". Flight lasted about 15 minutes from that one climb. Once the motor is cut, I can't see why this would have felt better if the motor was not there at all.... It's just another lauch method. For sport flying, I rarely climb over 50 meters before I cut the motor and start thermal hunting.

Soar_dude

Feb 07, 2005, 04:59 PM

Bert,

I am dieing to see an F3b launch.

F3B launches are not to die for. For a real thrill go to a F3J contest now those are LAUNCHES!!

:)
Soar Dude

Miami Mike

Feb 07, 2005, 05:36 PM

I'll have a 3-speed 12 volt winch up for sale...I've never heard of that. How do the three speeds work? Can you regulate the speed during launch with the footpedal?

Miami Mike

Feb 07, 2005, 05:40 PM

Once the motor is cut, I can't see why this would have felt better if the motor was not there at all...I guess it's something you have to actually experience for yourself to understand, but it definitely is much more fun.

sierra-gold

Feb 07, 2005, 06:04 PM

It's obviously a personal thing, because I have done it both ways.

Whether I'm pulled up by a winch to 500 feet or by a motor/folder, once I'm off the line or turn off the motor... it's the same search/thrill. By the way, the last time I was watching a TD contest 500 foot launches were not rare nor considered outstanding.(700 foot to turn-around) :)

The guys that have the unique bragging rights are HLG/DLG IMHO. ;)

Peace

SG

Stuntman

Feb 08, 2005, 12:50 AM

Can you explain what the difference is with a "non-pure" glider? I lauched my Junior sport plus straight into a thermal yesterday, about 30-40m high and worked the thermal until I was "up there". Flight lasted about 15 minutes from that one climb. Once the motor is cut, I can't see why this would have felt better if the motor was not there at all.... It's just another lauch method. For sport flying, I rarely climb over 50 meters before I cut the motor and start thermal hunting.

Well, I like doing it both ways too. Sniffing around at 20feet, holing a thermal and working it up sure is fun, either way. The difference with an E-glider is that if you miss a thermal "opportunity" you can just power on, climb away and sniff around a bit more. With an ordinary glider you miss it, you land, and get on the back of the que to launch again. It just seems more of an accomplishment to get a 15 -30min+ flight on a non-powered glider.

Still I will never give up my E-gliders and I fly these more and more often. In fact I hardly get the winch out these days. The skillset is the same, but I think my thermal finding skills have been honed to a finer degree by flying "pure" gliders too. Just my opinion.

cheers, Shawn

WimH

Feb 08, 2005, 01:42 AM

The skillset is the same, but I think my thermal finding skills have been honed to a finer degree by flying "pure" gliders too. Just my opinion.

cheers, Shawn

I still don't get it. Suppose I gave you a glider to fly that was already up there, but I did not tell you how it got that far: now if you can explain to me how you would know to enjoy flying it or to enjoy it a bit less without switching on the motor or noticing the prop, then I might start believing you...
(fat chance...)

Don't get the real difference between a relaunch and a relight( I could land, but I don't have to with an electric, suppose that's what's meant) either.... Sigh, must be me...

I guess it's something you have to actually experience for yourself to understand, but it definitely is much more fun.

I have flown pure gliders, and regularly fly my handlauch. I still don't get it....

Stuntman

Feb 08, 2005, 06:44 AM

I still don't get it. Suppose I gave you a glider to fly that was already up there, but I did not tell you how it got that far: now if you can explain to me how you would know to enjoy flying it or to enjoy it a bit less without switching on the motor or noticing the prop, then I might start believing you...
(fat chance...)....

Well I would enjoy it. Especially if its your glider and I start pushing it around and your getting a little nervous :D . Anyway, I guess, for me, its more of a challenge to get a 15min+ flight from a pure glider than for an e-glider. Maybe thats where it stems from? I dunno. Still I love flying my e-gliders.

Don't get the real difference between a relaunch and a relight( I could land, but I don't have to with an electric, suppose that's what's meant) either.... Sigh, must be me......

Well, you have to get the winch out, then move it when the wind changes. You then have to collect the shute every launch and hope you don't come off the line early or have a line break or get a narly line snarl. With an electric you just walk out onto the flight line, turn into the wind, power up and fly. And you can do it several or more times per flight without landing. So I guess where I am coming from its requires so more effort to get a "pure" glider into the air than an E-glider, so staying up for longer, (in my mind at least) becomes so much more important/challenging/rewarding.

I have flown pure gliders, and regularly fly my handlauch. I still don't get it......

Ok do you find that catching a thermal with your handlaunch is much harder than with an E-glider or a winch/bungee launched glider? And that when you do you think of it as more of an acheivement or more rewarding cause you catch a thermal at much lower altitudes where the thermals are more fickle. I know I would. But hey thats just me, it takes all types, and you favourite cake is probably different to mine (which changes depending on how I am feeling on day. LOL :rolleyes: )

Cheers, Shawn

See what you've started Jay....

WimH

Feb 08, 2005, 08:42 AM

Ok do you find that catching a thermal with your handlaunch is much harder than with an E-glider or a winch/bungee launched glider? And that when you do you think of it as more of an acheivement or more rewarding cause you catch a thermal at much lower altitudes where the thermals are more fickle. I know I would.
Cheers, Shawn

See what you've started Jay....

That I understand, and that's why I seldom climb higher than 50m , lower that you'd get with a highstart. I agree about the handlaunch, but I have not flown mine much yet , it only has 1m span , and I cannot launch it very high yet, nor "real" thermals so far...( unfortunately I did not have it with me this weekend, when thermals were plentyful, in spite of the 7°C outside temp and blue sky...) OH, and I used to have a 2 channel glider with a timed motor control, relighting was not an option there...

soholingo

Feb 08, 2005, 09:27 AM

See what you've started Jay....

Shawn,

I started this thread almost 3 years ago :eek:

Stuntman

Feb 08, 2005, 04:57 PM

ROFLOL. :eek: :D

I didn't notice that. Had to go back and have a look. Jeez, Mike was cruzin the archives.

Anyway, it has lead to some interesting debate. So I say here, here, to the revival of this thread.

SteveR

Feb 08, 2005, 08:19 PM

3 Speed Winch: A clever setup made by an old friend many years ago. The pedal has 3 micro-switches. The harder you press, the further down the pedal goes and activates the first, then second, then third switch. These in turn control large bands of resistance wire (flat sections of copper) via solenoids.

This setup gives you great control over the winch, all the way from moderate tension all the way to wing popping full power. It's especially useful for less experienced flyers who haven't developed good toe tappin' skills.

Works great,

Steve

Miami Mike

Feb 08, 2005, 08:37 PM

I get it, thanks. It makes me wonder about other new improved winch ideas.

aeajr

Feb 09, 2005, 06:20 PM

I am wondering how do you launch a glider from flat land? I want to try my hand at this but I have no slopes to use for lift so what methods do I use to get air borne?

Thanks

Jay

If you are new to hi-start launching, then this article may be useful.

How to use a hi-start
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

Videos of actual hi-start launches
http://portfox.rchomepage.com/gallery/movies/Stepp3-launch.wmv
http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/liftzonemag/2004/mar/ava/Ava1.wmv

The Hosemonster series of hi-starts has a great reputation, but I have never used them.
http://www.aerofoam.com/hosemonster.html
If you want a complete Hosemonster hi-start
2M. Comp/100ft. rubber 500' line $110.00

The Pinnacle, from NE Sailplane, seems to be the standard at our sailplane
club.

If you are solidly in 2 meter sailplanes and plan to be there for 2-3 years, I
would recommend the Pinnacle Standard from NE-Sailplanes. It will give you a
solid launch and the whole package works nicely. It should also launch 2.5
meter planes well and some lighter 3 meter planes. $80 for a complete set-up.
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=875

If you are on a tight budget, this Dynaflite will get you in the air. I think
the Pinnacle or the Hose Monster hi-starts are better quality and will last
longer, but this will launch your 2 meter planes quite will. Several new
flyers in the club use them. - $60
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE636&P=7

The photo below is of a Great Planes Spirit 2M being launched with a Dynaflite hi-start.

If you think you might move into 3 Meter planes by the end of your second
season, you might consider a stronger hi-start. It will give your 2M a
stronger launch than it needs, but it won't overstress it. You just won't pull
it as far. The NESail Large will launch 2M and 3M planes. I have launched my
2M Spirit off this and stronger hi-starts many times- $86
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=874

I put one of these plane locator/battery monitors in each of my sailplanes,
slope glider, and parkflyers. Cheap insurance and they work well.
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=67

I think Sailplanes are Wonderful - Here's why
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=18

Frank S

Feb 10, 2005, 12:07 PM

I thought the glider in the first set of videos looked like a Tragi 702, I love mine, its an awsome glider. Too bad I can't use it for the type of contests that it was designed for.
My local club seems to only be interested in thermal contests and even though we have the Point of the Mountain (awsome slope flyable around 300 days a year) no one seems interested in slope races or an F3B contest even if I arrange everything for the contest.
Oh well, what are you going to do, right?

Dave TaylorHi Dave, I just saw this. Not that I have a clue about either, but if you organize an F3F race at POM, or an F3B anywhere in your area, I'll come down from Jackson for it. I've been considering driving/flying to CA to try some slope racing.

Frank S

Feb 10, 2005, 12:16 PM

David Taylor

Feb 10, 2005, 12:50 PM

Differences in flying electric VS. pure sailplanes comes in when you get the plane in a position where you can't make it back to the field without finding lift and getting higher, IE downwind, behind a tree line or just a really long way out and low. With electrics you just throttle up, get your altitude and come home, no need to worry, but with a pure sailplane thats not an option and you may NEED to fly as good or better than you have ever flown before just to get back home, pushing your skills farther (part of why I like going to contests).
Nothing beats the fact of knowing that the ONLY thing that saved your flight was your knowledge of the air and your plane and your ability to get both to work together.
And no im not talking about flying recklessly just calculated risks.
I do like flying electrics but to me its just not the same.

Dave Taylor

WimH

Feb 10, 2005, 01:56 PM

With electrics you just throttle up...

Not necessarily, as I said, I had an electric where I could only switch on the motor once, no chance of a "relight". And, with every electric, there comes a time the motor batteries are flat. As for weight, thats not really a big problem these days. Anyway , there's not much point in perpetuating this discussion. One last thing, a few years ago I was in a club that had not seen much electric. I was flying my Graupner Junior and Robbe Arcus electrics, it was a nice field with good thermals, and flights of about an hour were easily possible. Then a guy came and said electrics were no good, his model, a glider with a small glow motor "glided" much better. He lauched, climbed for about 5 minutes till it was a dot in the sky and landed about 2 minutes later....

I'm a big glider fan, and just think an electric motor is the most conveniënt way of launching. DLG has it's charms as well. Winch/Histart are to much of a hassle for me, and may disturb other pilots...

Miami Mike

Feb 13, 2005, 11:43 PM

Well guys, I came up with a new improved winch idea, just like I mentioned in post #40. It's electronic so I posted it in the DIY Electronics forum. Check it out:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335278

Dennis Everett

Nov 17, 2006, 01:08 PM

The f3b winches used today are a fraction as powerful as they used to be , The canucks used a 36 volt winch winch with a very narrow ,large dia. winch drum , launched if i remember correctly at 150 mph on to the speed course , Then there was the "goralla winch" made by the San Fernando Valley guys , used 2 - 6 volt motors on 12 volts , and very strong wings , and then i think the best one was the "safety winch" (same guys)single motor and a flywheel , they spun the flywheel up to i think 5000 rpm , let it spin , did a normal launch , winch drum about 2000 rpm , hit a different pedal that brought the flywheel speed to the winch drum , like i said very strong wings !!out launched everyone , And worked pretty good , as they put quiet a few flyers on the USA f3b team..Dennis