Question about CAD

[JerryHall]

I may find myself in a position in the near future whereby I may need to be able to work with a CAD system for the purpose of designing models and have that data in a digital format so it can be fed into a CNC machine to make injection mould cavaties...

Trouble is, I have never had any experience with CAD... I have seen brief shots of it being used on TV, and a couple of times I was able to look over the shoulder of a fellow in a lumber yard designing a new house for a customer..
I understand it's purpose and what it does, but have no idea how to do it..

I am 63 years old, not the brighest bulb on the tree, but do have an excellent perception of most things mechanical..I was at one time a draftsman ( 1960s) and do design model aircraft for R/C on a regular basis, but by hand, the old way..

I guess I said all that to be able to ask this question...

Is it possible for a seasoned senior citizen to be able to master CAD ??
If so, what would be a good program to purchase...
What equipment is needed...Scanner ?? Windows 98 have enough memory ?? what else....
Can I pick up the knowledge needed by asking questions, or do I need to enroll in a formal course at a college ?? Trouble is I am many miles from a college and gas at $ 3.50/ gallon... I don't think so..

I am sure there are a lot of you fellows who use CAD, and I would appreciate some insight...

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration..

Jerry

[N74463]

Jerry,

I’m only four years younger than you are. My formal training was in medicine. Nonetheless, I’ve taught myself to use four different CAD programs. If you’ve been a draftsman and are currently designing models, I’m sure you can learn to use a CAD program. A class might be nice, but self-teaching is possible.

When I learned, I forced myself to abandon my drawing table and just use CAD. In the beginning there were frustrating days when I was sure I could have finished drawings MUCH faster using a pencil. So be warned that the learning curve may be a little flat in the beginning. But it’s worth the effort. The speed and precision of CAD are great.

I’m a Macintosh guy (I use PowerCADD), so I’ll leave the software and hardware recommendations to others. But, yes, it’s very doable. Go for it, and remember to have fun.

Joe

[JerryHall]

Joe...

Thanks for the words of encouragement...I am sure that at best it would take weeks to become profficient, but WTH, I always used to thrive on a challenge...

[rvt]

Hey,

my teacher always tought me : If you want, you can...
Apparent;y you want, so you can!!!

In any case, I think you do need to make up your mind about drawing 2D or 3D.

For me I only do 3D drawings end let my program generate 2D drawing out of my designs. For me this is helpfull since I can look, see, rotate etc my design and see if it really fits.
Which in turn help me to get rit of most error before going to really build it.

3D sounds complicate, but in fact it's not that much complicated I didn't do any courses what so ever on it but using the helpfiles and online docs..


cheers,
Ries (34 young)

[coosbaylumber]

Jerry....

Myself, and others who are no longer young, find it difficult to just open up a manual, and begin drafting. You have the first, basic, and most necessary step acomplished, that in the board drafting level, for students at the local high schools are placed direct into CAD, and they there have to visualize what 3-D is, and what lineweight, thickness, types are. You know that already. Colored lines are not to make the drawing look pretty, they indicate a command.

Problem is termonology. I used to go to the night adult school two times a week. The instructor used the term "Parallel" and when using AutoCAD the term they use is OFFSET. Thus if you go into the back of the manual, into the index, there is no such entry. Thus how does it get done? You know it can be. But how?

This a simple use of different language. You have the skills, but you have to learn the new lingo. That is the real problem. When I walk into the room, the instructor doesn't teach me a thing about how to draft, but I can wave the hand and say "I want to do.... , what is the correct command for it?" He knows, you know how to do this on the board, and you just jumped the rest of the class by several hours. Now, you have to turn to the 18 year old beside you, and explain to them what was just done.

Look into it locally. Visit your high school and ask the drafting instructor for adult education. For mine, it cost $30 for first semester, and $9 for the second. Two times per week 6:30 to 9:30. I sat alongside a young 20 year old who went to I.T.T. Tech, she spent $2500 for three semesters there, learned nothing. I could see why. She was seldom in class, and when finals happened, she did not know the basics, and was unable to draw the simple block figures required in order to obtain a passing grade. The BEST students are those who show up to each session.

Look locally, not across the county.

Wm.

[BMatthews]

Being self taught I KNOW that I have lots of troubles in doing things that would probably be easy if I was taught how. And this is coming from someone that is comfy enough with my CAD that I can honesly say that I can CAD faster than draw with a pencil at this point for anything other than a doodle.

By all means start on it with your own time and learn the basics. But I would then back that up with a proper course to learn the normal practices. Much like you had to do as a draftsman way back when.

And it also sounds like you're going to need to do this all in 3D. That's a whole other level of buttons and controls. Not to mention wrapping your mind around thinking in 3D drawing concepts. Not something that comes easy to us old farts used to seeing our plans in 2D.

Realisitically and from my own experience you're looking at probably 4 to 6 months of general spare time learning and practising to get decent at the basics. But what you want isn't basic from the description of that CNC mold machining.

[JerryHall]

I had not thought of inquiring at the high school..Good point...
I found out too, that we have a fellow here in town who works for an engineering company in a city about 40 miles away...He commutes so may have some time to lend an ear...It may be worth a few extra bucks to him for gas money ??
I agree language is going to be the main problem...No longer will terms like "pointy thingey" and " whutzit" do the job...I really haven't mastered Englsh yet, but suppose I could take on CAD as a second language...

Thanks again fellas...All Good points to consider

[Andy W]

Is there a "cad for dummies" book? (not calling anyone a dummy, but those books are supposed to be pretty good..)
..a

[rvt]

[QUOTE=
Not to mention wrapping your mind around thinking in 3D drawing concepts. Not something that comes easy to us old farts used to seeing our plans in 2D.
[/QUOTE]

Actually, there have been studys about this. People think in 3D, not 2D. So when we draw in 2D, our mind needs to 'generate' 2D drawings before we can actually draw them.

I agree about the buttons and panels, when you did some math at school, you will remember the names (refolve, extrude, etc....)

Ries

[coosbaylumber]

I do not reccomend ANY CAD system for a new user.

Instead, it is reccomended that the new user attend a school where CAD is being taught. No matter what brand. Once you have a feeling as to what it can or cannot do for you, then you become a bit of a critic. For then you have to ability to judge yourself, and your personal interests, and see what features of any CAD system will match your needs. Ask, how to draw a Solid, a Hatch pattern, will the software understand both Truetype and SHX fonts? How do I plot, and how do I alter the plot set-up? Thus the $3500 system may very well handle your interests, maybe CheapCAD will also handle what you need be done. Then again, CheapCAD may limit you to certain features. (Well, had I known about that, I never would have bought it. I would have gone the extra $1-200 for a different system). That instructor may have an architectural background, but do some conversion in your head for the language of floorplan to topview. That isn't in a manual either.

I use a full version of AutyCAD, and on occasion have to alter a drawing on a friend's version of DesignCAD or AutoCAD LT. Each has similar, but not exactly the same commands, and thus confusion on my part, when I want it to "Do this..." and it doesn't understand. This point here, is NOT to buy any CAD software until you learn a little bit. Enough to be able to carry on a conversation. Then you can read the edge of the box, see if what is outlined will match your needs or not. Ask the instructor here too, can I do this? with this CAD system? or not? I use a few AutoLISP add-on programs, and it cuts a few seconds off of certain tedious operations. Some CAD systems will not understand these. Books rarely discuss setting up a new CAD system, or adding on any options. Ask your instructor!

A mention was made about Windows 98. Bingo!! You must have a machine tool background, as this operating system (although obsolete) is still being used and installed on modern fast computers every day in the Los Angeles area. When you go in to buy a new one, the store will ask if you want XP or 98? Many, many of the common, barely making it CNC machine shops run in 98, as it meets their needs. They have no interest in upgrading if it does not run better (faster), is easier to run or convert, and cost them an additional $1000 just to run as they did last year. A faster computer with a new O.S. will not enable the CNC mill to cut metal faster or sharpen a worn end mill. And CAD really does not take a lot on computer memory, until you begin to bring in pictures. It will only require maybe 64 Meg to run. It is the photo portion that takes up the remainder of the memory.

It is always nice to receive a box in center of your screen saying "This Feature is either not implimented or not available"

If you went to school, you would then know what this meant.
Wm.

[Bill Mixon]

I may find myself in a position in the near future whereby I may need to be able to work with a CAD system for the purpose of designing models and have that data in a digital format so it can be fed into a CNC machine to make injection mould cavaties...

If so, what would be a good program to purchase...
What equipment is needed...Scanner ?? Windows 98 have enough memory ?? what else....
Can I pick up the knowledge needed by asking questions, or do I need to enroll in a formal course at a college ?? Trouble is I am many miles from a college and gas at $ 3.50/ gallon... I don't think so..

I am sure there are a lot of you fellows who use CAD, and I would appreciate some insight...

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration..

Jerry
You mention CNC machinery.
The CAD design work is one thing, turning what you draw into a valid code for a machine is another.
I learned manual drafting first then did a little CAD in high school. After that I went to technical college and learned CADCAM. The school I went to used a program by CNC Software INC. Mastercam (http://www.mastercam.com/)
I had the option to buy the software at a low price through an educational program while I was a student, and have been using it ever since to design planes and other items.
Have also used others such as the popular Autocad, Solidworks, etc.
All do the same basics, however they name commands differently as others mention above.
I wish I could combine the best features that I like from all the design programs to create a "perfect" system.
For example when I use zoom in mastercam I click a window area with the mouse to zoom in on. Then if I want to look at some other area on the object, I have to zoom back out and then in on it, or move with the arrow keys to that area.
Some of the others that I have used (solidworks, late versions of autocad as well i think) lets you use the roller wheel on the mouse to go in and out with the zoom, and you simply move the pointer over the area you want which is much faster.
That may not seem like a big deal, but it makes a big difference when you are drawing something large that has multiple little details that you have to go back and to during the design.

Learning to draw in X,Y, and Z can be difficult especially if you don't understand how the software works in 3D. It just takes some time and patience.
The hardest part for me has always been turning that nice looking 3 dimensional object into a part or mold that can be used. :)
Do you know someone that has this CNC machinery for mold work?
If so you need to be sure that whatever CAD software you buy will work with what they are using. File conversions don't always come through flawless.

[Dylwad]

you should need no more inspiration than this.

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Tomlinson.htm

Dylan

[JerryHall]

Dylwad...

Those photos leave me speechless...Thanks for the link...