Hawker's F-35C without a Feigao ! ! !

[keven64]

Yes folks... it CAN be done !

After smashing off the nose on the first outing, whilst trying to get to grips with the odd control system that Pete designed into his model, ( note to myself - NEVER design that into one of my own ! ;) ), we finally got the model trimmed so it would FLY - using Fenix's fancy Sanwa transmitter.

( Note that my use of the word "fancy" refers only to the way in which you program the $^%&£$ thing to manage delta mixing and low rates... I didn't dare ask for negative exponential as well ! :p )

This model is simply GREAT !

It LOOKS the part - and will more so when we finally get the thing painted.
( no luck at all with grey paint suitable for depron here, as yet )
Not only that - even with a std brushed IPS ( taken from an EDF-50 remotored with a Feigao5800 ) it FLIES the part.

Included with this post are a few video links - all are 'shot' by Emma with the digi camera and are in Quicktime format - making the thing small relative to your monitor... :rolleyes:

The 1st (http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23495&sort=1&size=medium&cat=500&page=1) ( click to view ) is the best video - in my opinion
Emma does very well to keep up with it.

Admittedly - it's not too fast - especially at that height... but its an IPS motor - with a 5 amp GWS ESC... ;)
When the camera card was full, I carried on with flying ( though it WAS getting dark ) and the model IS fast only 8 feet up ! :cool:

Pete mentions in one of his posts how the model flutters like a maple leaf.
I have to admit I could not imagine how that could be... :confused: but after seeing it (http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23497&sort=1&cat=500&page=1) ( click to view ) for myself, I'm amazed ! :)
If you approach the ground low in a normal flight attitude, and chop the power, the model just flutters down - I tried it a few times. Into wind, its fun. :D

Here's another showing the model in flight (http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=23498&sort=1&cat=500&page=1) with abrupt landing... :o

Keven. :)

[Hawker]

Very nice Keven! That's great that it works so well even with a brushed motor.

I'm going to re-config my controls to standard because it's just too sensitive as it is. It makes for some scary moments. :)

Gotta get ready for work now.

[keven64]

...to include a picture ! :o

Here is my rendition - from 4mm and 2mm depron - with a pair of Saturn44 servos, a 5amp ESC and a standard CN12-RLC motor, from an EDF-50 unit - with it's heat sink. :D

http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/500/3634RAF_Picostick_F-35C-med.JPG

Weight, sat there ready to fly, is only 4.5oz with a Kokam 750 - which lasts quite a while ! ;)

Sat with the F-35C is Fenix’s ( medusa powered ) Pico Stick - done in RAF colours as an opponent to my usual ‘Red Baron’ version…

Keven.

[keven64]

Yep - it IS a little scary at times...

jk about the cpontrol system, Pete ! ;)

Keven. :D

[Hawker]

Kev,

I'm really glad you like it! Very nice.

I got the control design from most other small profile jets that people have used.
It wasn't my design at all. Personally I'll stick to conventional elevator/ailerons
from here out. :)

Post some pics once you get her painted up! :D

[keven64]

Hawker commented
Personally I'll stick to conventional elevator/ailerons
from here out. :)Me too ! ;)

However... :o
Modifying this model to incorporate std. controls would mean removing the two servos from their positions ( inlaid into wing surface ) and placing them in more appropriate positions.
I'd then need to fill the holes that the servos are in at the moment, and...

This will undoubtedly add weight that the model may not cope with...

I have made four 6mm depron shapes with 4mm slots.
These slot onto the wings and tailplanes and hold everything EXACTLY in the positions required for S&L flight.
You said in your thread that you had neutral elevators with slight down ailerons - Fenix and I had neutral ailerons with slight up elevators ! :)

With the 6mm depron shapes holding everything still I am today going to remake the control linkages - with tighter and neater bends and NO V's to adjust the length between ailerons and elevators. :eek:
( I've learned that only a slight tweak of the straight wire link is sufficient to make a difference with models so small... )

I'm sure I can save a 1/4oz by re-making the linkages - and allow that to be replaced with a 1/4 oz of grey paint and some detail...

Keven. :)

[Hawker]

Keven,

If the servo's are inlaid into the wings, you could simply remove them, and fill
the hole with a little glue and little depron squares cut to shape. It would add
hardly any weight.

I just incorporated a tiny bit of flap on mine for increased lift. It may have just
made the thing a bit tricky to trim and fly. :rolleyes:

Anyhow, I'm glad to see your enthusiasm for this jet. It's basically equal to
mine. :D

[AirX]

Keven and Pete,

One thing comes to mind is it may be tucking on roll input without some amount of differential added. Same thing on the Nano Bandits and thier progeny.

Eric B.

[keven64]

I think you're right Eric... ;)

I may well make my OWN F-35C model - with seperate aileron and elevator controls...
This one here belongs to Fenix, and is now set up to fly very well with HIS Tx.

I've a LOT more experience at flying RC than he ( though I'm by no means an expert - I taught myself to fly 30 years ago... :o ) and can therefore 'drive' a model through a turn whilst anticipating what is going to happen...

This is how I manage to get away with flying the F-35C model whilst I think he has a little trouble with reactions...
This is no slur on either Fenix - or your great little model...
Only a combination of the 'combined control system' and perhaps an uncertain pilot. *
( He does GREAT with the Pico Stick and his Topic400 powered glider. ;) )

I'll see if I can get hold of him and ask if he's OK that I change the control system...

With seperate ailerons and elevators the slight tuck-under can be controlled without it affecting the roll rate/turn co-ordination ;)

Keven. :)

* I dug out my brushless Twin Star ( with two HET Typhoon Micro6 motors ) to give Fenix some quality air time with an easy-to-fly model...

[Hawker]

Probably so Eric and thanks for your input. After I'm done with the C-5 (soon now) I will
reconfig the F-35's controls to separate ones. Since all my other jets are more
conventional, they are much easier to fly.

[fenix]

I've a LOT more experience at flying RC than he ( though I'm by no means an expert - I taught myself to fly 30 years ago... :o ) and can therefore 'drive' a model through a turn whilst anticipating what is going to happen...

This is how I manage to get away with flying the F-35C model whilst I think he has a little trouble with reactions...
This is no slur on either Fenix - or your great little model...
Only a combination of the 'combined control system' and perhaps an uncertain pilot. *
( He does GREAT with the Pico Stick and his Topic400 powered glider. ;) )


Tis true. I'm probably still far too eager to fly the jets for someone with my experience. especially one with mixed control surfaces.

By the sounds of it i'd be better off starting with the Intruder it seems like you think that is the easiest one of your bunch to fly, hawker.

I'll keep trying it now that Kevens got the setup pretty much spot on but we'll see.