professional home build ignition

[raptorhelis]

just for a quick background i am a electronic engineering student and my father inlaw is a electronic engineer for the last 30 years. i dont like to bug him to much so instead of building a programable ignition a am going to build one out of semicoductors. i have a31cc ryobi engine that i am converting for a airplane. the homemade ignitions are not that great so i did some digging around and found that the off the shelf one are way to much money. ST semiconductor has three electronic ingnition controllers that have a lot of cool adjustal features. the three i am looking at are the L497, L482, L484. they use little outside parts and require a coil. i can mail anyone the pfd files if they leave there email. if anyone is interesed in helping out it would make this go a lot faster. i have all of the software to build the boards and inport and export different file types to sharing files will be very easy. i can either make the pcb's by my self or have a local company make them. cost for the final ignition will be around 6-10 bucks plus a coil (2-5 bucks used and all the way up for brand new one) and board will only cost 1-3bucks. i can make small amounts of boards for a few dollars each. if there are a lot of people we can have my made professionally for the same price. if any one has question please post them here so we can all keep track of where we are at. sorry fro my gramer and spelling. thanks

[ZAGNUT]

they use little outside parts and require a coil

haven't looked at the parts you mentioned but from your statement above i can only ASSume these are for kettering ignition and not CDI. if so then you'll be stuck with a very heavy coil and the need for a huge battery due to high current draw.

over on the gas engine conversions forum of RCU there are a few very informative threads about DIY ignitions with some very good schematice for CDI. you'll also find a few pic based auto advance circuits but for a ryobi fixed timing is perfectly adequate.


dave

[raptorhelis]

it uses a very small coil. it can be made to be adjusted from your transmitter or manually at the circuit board. it uses a hall effect sensor as a pickup. as for power i dosent draw to much power. if you look at the pdf files you will see that this isnt a slaped together iginition.

[raptorhelis]

do to the huge response i am going to put up the pfd files on a website. they will be up in a few days. I think a am going to go a different route now.

I talked to my father in-law and he said that if there was enough interest he will build I cdi ignition that will have a ton of features and also be able to buy just the microprossers and put it together you self with a free schematic or buy a complete unit.
there will be at least 4-5 versions. I am going to list all of the different features that can be added to the standard cdi ignition.

programable advance and retard at low, mid(from hand held programer only), and high points. you will be able to use a hand held programmer or use a extra receiver channel and do in-flight adjustments.

engine kill from extra receiver channel


all of these features use hand held programmer with a lcd display
real time tach
tach memory of low and high readings from flights
glitch counter
battery voltages low and high from flights
rev limiter
and any other features you want

the main reason for the change is that last year he started on a governor with all of the build in features and also the hand held programmer so it will be make delivery time a lot sooner. The hand help programer is build and the ignition brain is build so just a program need to be written.

if you just want a simple cdi ignition chip that is no problem it wont cost to much. if you want a complete setup with the hand help programer I will have the prices in a few weeks. one hand held programmer will work on any of the main ignition brains so one group of people could all use the same hand held programer.

please list what you are interested in so a can get a rough count. my father in-law will only put in the time if there is a demand. like I said before if you just want a simple cdi ignition he can write the program and sell you the single chip for a few bucks and you can out it all together for around 20-30 bucks.

[Acetronics]

Hi, Raptor

Can you give us a web address to see some more "practical" details ...
Would be really fine to see few pictures ...

Alain

[raptorhelis]

here is my website that i have been playing around with. if you go to links on the left side of the home page you can download the pdf files. the specs of the programable ignition will be soon. thanks www.microlitesystems.com

[raptorhelis]

website problem fix. the st chips are signal prossesers that can be used with a cimple cdi ingition or Kettering ignitions. cdi igntions are simple to make are they still use a transformer to up the voltage they just add a capasitor to help give the ignition a extra boost. you can wind your own coil for a cdi ignition and it only costed a few bucks. the other componets used are a few bucks to. what the st chip dose it make sure that you get the hostest spark each time it fires. i will have a full set of plans in a few days for the st chip. if you want a standard pre-programmed microprosser to use with a simple cdi i should have that i a few weeks. thanks and keep asking questions.

[Acetronics]

you can wind your own coil for a cdi ignition
.

Hi, raptor

do you have any practical info about home winding such coils ???

Another question about you future products : Will you use L 49x for your CDI systems ???

Alain

[raptorhelis]

i make my own coils for switching power supplies, ect. it is easy you just buy a ferrite toroid coil and some standard magnet wire (varnish covered copper wire). for the windings all you do is decide what out put voltage you want and what your input voltage will be and figure out you ratio of winding and then wrap the toroid and your done.

[Acetronics]

;)

I thought you were talking about the ignition coil ... for toroïds ...let's say I have a small experience behind !!!

What about L 49x with CDI's ???

Alain

[raptorhelis]

a toroid is what they call a magnetic ring. a coil is a toroid wrap in wire. i can show you how to wind your own ignition coils. also i think that cdi will be made with pic508-509 and the more advance cdi will use pic16xx.

sorry for the confusion but here is a huge explication on how everything works.

cdi stands for capacitor discharge ignition. a cdi ignition have a high voltage power supply that charges up a capacitor and then the high voltage supply is cut off and the capacitor is discharged to the spark plug. the reason i said that it boosts it is because a capacitor has the fastest discharge rate so that the spark plug is going to get the full amount of power all at the beginning. where a power supply if it dos not have enough filter capacitors on the output can have a drop in voltage and current at the beginning of the firing. the reason the cdi last longer on a battery pack is because the power supply is cut off from the equation and the capacitor is the only thing creating the spark.
when you want to run a electronic ignition of a six volt battery pack you have to up the voltage high enough so that you can produce a spark. the only way to do this with a 6volt battery is to turn the dc voltage into a ac voltage(alternating 6volt)and then you can run it threw transformer(or coil depending on what you definition of a coil is) and step it up. one thing about transformers is the more you step up the voltage the more current is need on the input to keep the out put current the same. for example is you have an out put of 300volt at say .5amps. if the input is 6volts it would take 25amps. on a standard magneto(kettering) igntion you have a wraped coil and a magnet that spins aroound on a fly wheel and when the magnet goes acroos that coil it creat a magnetic field that the wrap coil converts into voltage. this kind of setup cannot guarantee the exact same proformance each time. the st chips are preety neat the monitor the output voltage and current to make sure that the spark is the same and you can also set it to be voltage and current draw to what ever you want as long as you don’t use a cdi setup. the st chip also take the input from a hall effect sensor or pionts and as the graffs show it cleans up the input by giving them very steep on and off caracturistics to make sure that the output is going to turn on and off exactly when it is supose to. a halleffect sensor and a set of pionts are not going to have as steep on a off characteristics as the st chips . One down fall to points are that they get dirty, the contacts were out, and the mechanical part were out and cause the inout to be different each time the flywheel goes around. a halleffect sensor is turned on and off by a magnitic feild that can also very and the is a internal transistor that has to goes into saturation and back and that can very. the st chip can clean all of this up. if you do not use a cdi igntion and go with a coil the st chip will let you control the output voltage and the current and each park. This will let you have a spark that is pretty much idenical to the last. With current control you can make sure that you get a good spark and also good battery life. If you are not going to use a programmable advancing ignition this is the best way to go. I will have a prototype up and running in a week or two. I should also have a simple advancing pic508 chip up and going in tow or three weeks.

[raptorhelis]

it would be great if we could get a list all people that can help and also list the area you can help with. thank

[waterloou]

Hey RaptorHeli,

I'm a computer engineering student at the University of Waterloo and I'd be interested in helping out on this project. Me and my dad wanted to build something similar right before University started a year ago, but we were stuck with the programming of the pic chip. However, we made a coil winding machine. It is fully automated with adjustable speeds on both the threaded screw and the the object that is getting the wire. I will attach a picture to show the setup. Also, I can draw out the circuit in Cad without a problem and make the ciruit boards using the laser printer technique.

If a working model would be made, I could test it on my SM 30 engine. Presently with a Falcon Ignition and 50cc canister muffler, i'm getting 8400 rpm on a Menz Pro 18*8 propeller.

[waterloou]

Also, it has a magnetic counter so I can make an exact specification coil without a problem.

Sebastian

[raptorhelis]

it is great to have you onboard. if you go to my website i build everything form scratch with the help of my father inlaw. i really mean everthing, regulators, chargers, battery packs, fail safe switch, ect. i am working on a ton of projects. if you are interseted in teaming up i would like to have you aboard for everyhting. i think a found a freind that will help out with some of the pic programming. i have all of the microchip software. i am working on a f-18 project that i am building my own air retracts for dirt,cheap and my own magnetic brakes that are adjustable trom the transmitter and are tided into the rudders so you can steer with the brakes, also gyro assit for the ailarons, electronic egnition. i will make you a list of everything i am doing and you can see what youare intereseted in. i have a ton of non r/c related projects. if there is anyone else out there interested please email me your emails. i got a f-18 prop jet kit from www.junorc.com for 97bucks. i am also building either a canard or pereditor plane that will run of a ryobi 31cc engine and i would like to play around with video and controlled gidence so it would go in a pattern a video tape like a servalence plane. sorry for the spelling.please email me your email. my email is bj@microlitesystems.com thanks