Frigate

[Cebola]

All the time that I am commission of regattas of sail boats , I spend many hours observing the flight of the frigates. This glider the Frigate is a humble homage to these kings of the sky.

I hope you like it.


Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

Plus a thing, this glider has a magnificent relation of glide, it weighs only 17oz, and an extreme maneuverability.
Very good in thermal weak and days of wind, therefore its stringer strengthened with carbon fiber, allows adiction of ballast and it is strong for Hi starts.

Cebola
Brazil

[JFarlette]

That is a very nice design. At 17 oz it must be a real floater! What did you use for airfoils? What is the wing span and area?

Keep up the good work!

Jason

[tw126a]

Thats impressive and looks great, Cebola. Is this available as a kit or plans? I'm sure there would be some interest in something like this. Provide more details if you can.
Tom

[Cebola]

Tom

This model is my own design and a prototype, maybe if I got some interested people I can build in Kit for sale.

Has a prototype, there are some things to be changed for a production line.

Cebola
Brazil

[Ollie]

Cebola,
Your Frigate model and your design has style, beauty and function. I like it a lot! I like your craftmanship too.

[Cebola]

That is a very nice design. At 17 oz it must be a real floater! What did you use for airfoils? What is the wing span and area?

Keep up the good work!

Jason


Jason

technicall data

Wingspan 90"
Wing chord at the rooth 9"
Wing chord at the medium panel 8"
Wing chord at te wing tip 4"(winglet)
Airfoil S4083/Winglet Naca006

V tail at 105°,
Lengh 45"

Spars-spruce 1" x1/8 tapered , reiforced whit carbon fiber, and Divinicel has webbings.

wing joiner - Graupner stilll blade

Cebola
Brazil

[Antares]

17oz and S4083 ???

Surely goes backwards with a little wind!

How it penetrates?

[Ollie]

I like your spar. You could load up ballast if you need penetration. I still like your design!

[Cebola]

Ollie and others:
This glider has good general speed against winds of 15kts, above this needs a little of ballast, but it has a good glide. It has good performance in thermal, very steady , maybe I try to improve a spoiler, but I prefer clean wings.

Cebola
Brazil

[Ollie]

Cebola,
I agree with you!

[histarter]

Cebola,
Your Frigate is magnifico! :) 90 inch perfection (i.e. a statistical center for low launch and climbout machines - that I evaluated over the years). ;)

Cecil Haga made his Chaparell with a NACA 006 profile for center panels, and used a 6% Legionair (MCL about 2.5%) for his wing tips. I suspect at 17 oz you have done similar - but 4083 for winglets sounds like overkill, but then again, should give you great thermal spiral hang on at low speed. :D

I have to admit that Cecil's 6% Legionair was not abrupt enough of a transition - along with dihedral that was a bit too low for me to enjoy thermalling his 167" machine - however, with the 30 to 1 L/D plus, it was spectacular - and seemed to stick up there while just cruising! :D

YES. Keeping it robust for soaring with ballast (when needed), is the basic/prime requirement for a (thermalling) soaring machine. We modelers tend to get cute'sy and add more whistles and bells, diluting simplicity and efficiency. :eek:

[Cebola]

Histarter

In fact, I prefer functional gliders . I find that glider is machine to fly, nothing to see with scale glider . I never thought about placing ailerons and neither spoilers, I prefer wing clean. This model, I believe to have a 1:25 glide ratio. But it is pleasant to never fly and has strong wings. Good for winches or Hi start's.

On the drawing a small sketch from Frigate spar,

Cebola
Brazil

[Keith Watson]

That wing outline is beautiful! Congratulations!

[Cebola]

Frigate general lines

[histarter]

Histarter

In fact, I prefer functional gliders . I find that glider is machine to fly, nothing to see with scale glider . I never thought about placing ailerons and neither spoilers, I prefer wing clean. This model, I believe to have a 1:25 glide ratio. But it is pleasant to never fly and has strong wings. Good for winches or Hi start's.

On the drawing a small sketch from Frigate spar,

Cebola
Brazil
You do any of that and you lost your 17 ounce advantage!

I just cannot build that light, and still fly! :rolleyes: I had dreams of using the thin symetricals to advantage, however to accomodate launch force (100 lb tension) my symetrical usage was closer to 10% - and I still could not build them light enough! :eek:

Spar arangement puts glue in sheer, but looks great.

I plopped a Shuttle fuse on my work bench and am thinking if I slim my profile to 7%, switch to light weight covering and a modern light weight radio (with 200 ma battery) that I might get it flying at < 24 ounces for the airspeed I need.....Still thinking!! :rolleyes:

[Cebola]

I find that glider not a thing of extreme resistence.
In a launching by Whinch you only need ability to leave in a zoom climb, but without forcing the wings.
The wing spars only needs to be strong sufficient for a good altitude . Let's say to resist more or less 10"G ".
In fact, I never liked the German gliders in fiberglass, in my point of view they seem part of a bathtub.
The work of North American buiders, in the gliders always using balsa scraps, for their structures and cleaner aerodinamic lines always fascinated me. The Frigate is only one mix of the American traditional construction and a different way to see the wings.
Clean lines, and a easy to build model.
Off course I use a small RX, small batteryes, and small servos (19grs). But....Lighter push rods, Monocoted hinges, and a special help of Carbon fiber reinforcement , helps a lot.

And my English still terrible :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

I find that glider not a thing of extreme resistence.
In a launching by Whinch you only need ability to leave in a zoom climb, but without forcing the wings.
The wing spars only needs to be strong sufficient for a good altitude . Let's say to resist more or less 10"G ".
In fact, I never liked the German gliders in fiberglass, in my point of view they seem part of a bathtub.
The work of North American buiders, in the gliders always using balsa scraps, for their structures and cleaner aerodinamic lines always fascinated me. The Frigate is only one mix of the American traditional construction and a different way to see the wings.
Cebola
Brazil

Golly, have you read my book? "The Golden Age Of Model Aviation". You're discussing facts that were presented to the public for about 10 years now. 10G is a very good factor for a flying limit, and is totally overkill for the thermal soaring we do. :confused:

Now 5 kg tension on your sailplane durring launch is way more than enough - however, Americans use 10 times that for competition (100G in your case). :mad:

You are an artist my friend, and differ from myself - who is a crude engineer! And I tip my hat to you and your lovely creation. :D

BTW, You're right on!

[Cebola]

Histarter


During much time I participated of competitions of F3B FAI, but mine better model always was the Bird of Time.

Already I had the Sharon, and other gliders of fiberglass or Carbon fiber, but I still find that glider has much thing of poetry.
Its flight still "the flight of a bird" .

Pretty challenger, perhaps the only challenge .
Stay fliyng!


Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Histarter,
During much time I participated of competitions of F3B FAI, but mine better model always was the Bird of Time.

Already I had the Sharon, and other gliders of fiberglass or Carbon fiber, but I still find that glider has much thing of poetry.
Its flight still "the flight of a bird" .

Pretty challenger, perhaps the only challenge .
Stay fliyng!
Cebola
Brazil
Thornburg did some remarkable things with his artistic BOT, and it was frozen in 2 ch!
If you checked my book, you will see I am between the Bathtub and your gossamer Frigate... Since I am a nut on tortional resistance, the closest I could come is about 2% camber - because of my plate wing design. :)

You still have convinced me however, that there is life after extremely light! :D

What are you using for pushrods? My short coupled beasties are not too critical, but I am seeking lightweight rods that are stiff enough - without being exotic. I tried pull pull, and it is not for me. :o

Your wing design should thermal great - but long fuselages are not too happy flying in a circle. Have you entertained the thought of closer coupling? I did this and enjoy more responce, less circular error to compensate for, and more fluid (smooth) dancing with lift (I just don't see the small body shifts that changes in pressure creates). :D

And, I wanted to tell you that my Ellipse in Brazilia was very effective when winch launch was greater than 300 feet.

[Cebola]

Histarter

Here in the Brazil we are with limit of height of 300feet, already it has some time.
In fact we fly far, in a place of São Paulo, and then we can go up more, but it perishes to be an international rule.
About to push rods in the Frigate is of carbon fiber, of 3/16"dia.
About the length of the fuselage it is a model not so long, has 1,15m of length and it flies well in closed curves

Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

:) I will look for the rods at my Hobbyshop (who is into high tech), and hold off putting my standard cabeling into my lighter Shuttle.
I just measured my statistical developed fuselage (10 years of recorded statistics) - and it measures 1.05 meters. Close enough!! [chuckle]

I have done lots of flying within the landing patern of Boliver Airport (private) having a 400 foot limit, with my robust GL - hey, it works good enough to have small contests with the Mormon church group's juniors - that we were training at the time. Your Frigate would be the machine to beat because I believe it to be a tough one at HAM tasks.

Care to try a postal contest? 1/2 sized start, 5 min max. Honor system. Would like to get volunteers for Allegralites - cause I don't think they can cut the mustard. Brazil thermal generation should be similar to Texas (as Doyle stated). :D

[Cebola]

Al

I like of the idea of a postal competition. I find that we can create something for small gliders 70"wing span and with perhaps whit a Histar of 150 feet.
I can make a design a small Frigate, to serve as one design. Or other model, if you sugest.
We have a group that it is growing , for small gliders of low high of flight.

And we are traying to use our models in São Paulo in any small field.

Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

I know that he has little meant, but today the Frigate made a memorable Flight of 2 hours and 10 minutes in a thermal one. The fact is that respecting the height limits I was obliged to fly below of 400 feet, or either to keep the well held model in thermal. I find that life in this height of flight exists.


Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Al

I like of the idea of a postal competition. I find that we can create something for small gliders 70"wing span and with perhaps whit a Histar of 150 feet.
I can make a design a small Frigate, to serve as one design. Or other model, if you sugest.
We have a group that it is growing , for small gliders of low high of flight.

And we are traying to use our models in São Paulo in any small field.

Cebola
Brazil
Whoa,
90 inch span is mathematical perfection. :D
I flew up to 4 mtr span and discovered the task itself, and launch system, controls the size advantages. :o Going smaller only handycaps pilots, because density becomes a real problem - along with diminshing re and L/D. :eek:

Launching for HAM was with 50 ft rubber, 200 ft string, at 10 lbs tension Max. Winch was 300ft to turnaround and 15 lb tension max. Data string was with a max at 5 min. (and a lower control limit of 90 seconds). New work sheet will have 3 cells, with each cell being 4 sequential flights. We will get the information together, and I will post it to you. :)

[histarter]

I know that he has little meant, but today the Frigate made a memorable Flight of 2 hours and 10 minutes in a thermal one. The fact is that respecting the height limits I was obliged to fly below of 400 feet, or either to keep the well held model in thermal. I find that life in this height of flight exists.


Cebola
Brazil

That tops my 2 hour thermal flight over Carrollton - I may have hit as much as 1200 ft at times.
Launch real estate was the size of a soccer field, and that is what HAM was centered on - being able to compete with standard size sailplanes from small fields. :D

To get that air time, at your low altitude, I suspect you had to use about 20 little thermal poppers. No parking or resting - with a couple of last chance saves! :eek:

[Cebola]

Histarter

It was a warm winter day at São Paulo, and our small flying field is near at Guarapiranga lake.So we are flying on a zone whit many different surfaces, water and a worm grassed fields pefect for low thermals.
There was many bubles close to 13,00pm. My Histart measure only 150feet, and Frigate climbs to 250feet on a zoom launch.
The problem is get rid of thermals and stay around of it on a zone whit no thermals.
Frigate help me a lot, only because it has a small sink ratio and a very good glide ratio.
But.... mainly because it is a very light and maneuverable plane.
Its a fantastic sensation glide around at low altittude, and avoid strong thermals, I think that is the real challenge.

Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Histarter
The problem is get rid of thermals and stay around of it on a zone whit no thermals.
Frigate help me a lot, only because it has a small sink ratio and a very good glide ratio.
But.... mainly because it is a very light and maneuverable plane.
Its a fantastic sensation glide around at low altittude, and avoid strong thermals, I think that is the real challenge.Cebola Brazil
I struggle for the lift here most of the time, however the field in Denton sounds similar to your feild, and I suspect my Mirage would fly similar, and it would do what you are describing. Still I cheated a lot there, just to stay up. When the guys would drive to my area, and park, I would fly over their parked vehicles to use their engine heat. :o
Also, there was a 40 ft tall ridge less than 1/4 mile away facing the typical wind - that would snap off warm air into thermals. Still, I was flying above 600 ft typically, and am a bit worried about capping altitude down to 400 ft. So I have to ask if you are pulling my leg? :eek:

I could be happy flying 4 min tasks off 25 ft rubber and 100 ft line using something similar to your Figate - but open ended time is too dependent on luck and location. Instead the HAM approach is 12 sequential launches with no entry less than 90 sec, and the max time is 5 min. If you wish postal, I will be using 3 each four flight cells of sequential launches. I.E. four flights in a row equal one data cell. 3 each data cells equal one contest entry.

Now if you tell me every launch would be greater than 5 minutes, I will know that you are pulling my leg! :D

[Cebola]

I also have fact bad flights, exist ascending and descending still more to consider an exit low of the Histart.
But 90 seconds never, always around of 3 minutes, if you to choose the hour to fly.
If it will be flight for drawing and or frequency criterion, exists the luck and in very there.

Not to forget that the day was very good , yesterday, in São Paulo.

Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

I also have fact bad flights, exist ascending and descending still more to consider an exit low of the Histart.
But 90 seconds never, always around of 3 minutes, if you to choose the hour to fly.
If it will be flight for drawing and or frequency criterion, exists the luck and in very there.

Not to forget that the day was very good , yesterday, in São Paulo.
Cebola
Brazil
90 sec was loaded for bad luck (blast of tailwind after toss, popoff etc.) and gives statistical ballance. With sailplane improvement, 120 sec should be updated into the task for lower control limit.
The concept is that serial flights to execute 5 min maxes prove a pilot's consistancy, rather than air's variability. :D

[Cebola]

Hello Histarter

I am planning one Mini Frigate, with 80"wing span, and wing chord in the 10" root, half wing with 8" and tips with 5" on the wing tips.

The tail group will be on conventional conception.

Very simple to build , this model will be pod & boom with the front part of the fuselage in lite plywood and the rear on carbon fiber.

The rudder and stabilizer of plate of 1/8"balsa sheet.

In the reality it is for my son Leonardo , and other children also.

I go to continue with the S4083 therefore i like it.

When I initiate the construction I go to place the plan, the steps and photos here in the Rc groups.

I am enthusiastic with a postal contest and I find that 5 minutes very good for a duration time flight as has a limit, but it would like to consider a precision landing on a target.

Below a image of Mini frigate

Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Hello Histarter

I am planning one Mini Frigate, with 80"wing span, and wing chord in the 10" root, half wing with 8" and tips with 5" on the wing tips.
The tail group will be on conventional conception. Very simple to build , this model will be pod & boom with the front part of the fuselage in lite plywood and the rear on carbon fiber. The rudder and stabilizer of plate of 1/8"balsa sheet.

In the reality it is for my son Leonardo , and other children also. I go to continue with the S4083 therefore i like it.

When I initiate the construction I go to place the plan, the steps and photos here in the Rc groups. I am enthusiastic with a postal contest and I find that 5 minutes very good for a duration time flight as has a limit, but it would like to consider a precision landing on a target.
Cebola Brazil
The smaller machine would really need the S4083 (a thin undercambered profile) that could handle the excess weight generated by sheet balsa tail. Executing S4083 with open framework is a bit unpredictable. On wing tips without washout, it would work great i.e. against a lower CL type of profile for abrupt tight spiralling (snap spiral). :)

Landings are to be within 5 paces of the modeler (catching is acceptable). Since scoring is based upon averages of the cells (like a batting average), and a total of 12 flights would be an entry, grand average would be the score. With landing number a tie breaker. :D

[Bernd Brunner]

Hi all,

here in Germany we are also flying with a short highstart. Launch hights are between 200´ to 300´. We are using models like hlg´s, or scratch build 2m planes. It´s very similar to the situation described by Cebola.

I like the idea of a postal contest! May i summarize the rules for the Postal contest?:

- max span: 80" (2m) or better 100"(2.5m)?
- Histart (edit) 150' (100' line; 50' rubber)
- avarage time of a dozen 5 min tasks. One point per second.
- Landings are to be within 5 paces of the modeler (catching is acceptable). Modeler position has to be marked on the ground. Landing points: 30 if within the 5 paces, 0 if outside.

What do you think?

Endless lift!
Bernd

[Cebola]

I like it Bernd, but the Histar can bee whit 150 feet, 75feet is to short.

Let's say 50feet for rubber and 100feet for the line.

I think 100" Wingspan glider have some disvantage if you compare to the 80" wing span light models.

But is a good way to see your model close to you not a point in the sky.

But be careful, there are many thermals in that altittude, we have a american Friend named Joe Wurts that catch many thermals launching the model on HLG method, and a big one model a Sharon (ou something like it) whit 3,70m wing span
Joe have been in Brazil two months ago, and share whit us is fantastics flights, always launching by is hands.
And he has the right of one thermal per launching, whitout errors or mistakes.


Cebola
Brazil

[Bernd Brunner]

Cebola, do you mean, we should compete without a span limit? Good idea! The limit will be the histart and the launch height.

Frigate: i´ve build a model with s4083 too. It´s flying nice and thermals well, but i´ve missed dynamic (good l/d at high speed, energy retention..) . After adding ballast this point was much better. What about the flying characteristics of the frigate?

Bernd

[histarter]

Hi all,
here in Germany we are also flying with a short highstart. Launch hights are between 200´ to 300´. We are using models like hlg´s, or scratch build 2m planes. It´s very similar to the situation described by Cebola.
I like the idea of a postal contest! May i summarize the rules for the Postal contest?:
- max span: 80" (2m) or better 100"(2.5m)?
- Histart (edit) 150' (100' line; 50' rubber)
- avarage time of a dozen 5 min tasks. One point per second.
- Landings are to be within 5 paces of the modeler (catching is acceptable). Modeler position has to be marked on the ground. Landing points: 30 if within the 5 paces, 0 if outside.
What do you think?
Endless lift!
Bernd
Hi Bernd, Let me give you the 2005 HAM rules that I just finished piecing together. This postal meet is now about 10 years old, and I hope I have smoothed the problems that happened. Using cells gave two 'intermissions' to the data collection, while still maintaining the serial sequential philosophy that makes it unique, and an expert's contest. [Expert at short launch]

Hot Air Masters – 2005
Postal Contest

1. Sailplane size: No restrictions. Task and histart regulations filter size realistically.
2. Histart: 50 ft rubber and 175 ft line. Stroke 150 ft max. Tension 10 lbs max (histart pulled back until one or the other limit is attained).
3. Flight schedule: 4 sequential launches = one data cell. 3 data cells = one complete entry. (Original schedule wanted 12 sequential flights - which many pilots didn’t like; i.e. 9th launch was a crash (for example), plane repaired and 10th launch was a test flight - meaning they had to start all over again). Once the cell is completed it is locked off.
4. Timing: Once the chute/flag falls away, the clock starts the time for flight. Once the model’s flight is impeded (landing or catch) the clock stops. If flight is less than 2 minutes, 2.0 minutes is recorded (lower control limit). If flight is greater than 5 minutes. 5.0 minutes is recorded. The flights between UCL (5 min) and LCL (2 min) are recorded to the second (tolerance is 5 sec – meaning a clumsy timer does not force reflight).
5. Scoring: Each cell total time is divided by 4 for a cell average expressed as Ave – L(landings). When 3 cells have been acquired then the averages are totaled and divided by 3 for the Grand Average. Completion of a cell locks it, and the cells below it. If one is dissatisfied with the buildup, he has to start over. (Gentlemen, this is an honor system and should be respected). Landings within 5 paces (or catches) are straight accumulations. If you averaged 247.3 seconds, the score would be rounded to 247 and if 9 successful landings occurred, the final expression would be 247L9. 248L1 still beats 247L9 because this is a (tough) flying contest rather than a landing contest. [Most flyers think it is a easy task - until they put the serial flights in (without alibis)]
6. Popoffs and reflights: Popoffs must be flown out, or accept 2 min LCL. There are no reflights other than scrapping the cell, and doing it over.
7. Usually a 30-day period to record 12 string data is given so pilots can pick best air to fly in; however, because of the cellular approach, the window will be 1 week. [This point is up for discussion!]
8. A pilot can keep putting 4 flight cells together for a long string, and select the best 3 sequential cells for his entry. For example: 9 cells total, and three cells that will give greatest Grand Average are 5 6 &7 - this is legal. Whereas, 2 7 &9 that may be better is illegal, because it is not sequential.

[Cebola]

Cebola, do you mean, we should compete without a span limit? Good idea! The limit will be the histart and the launch height.

Frigate: i´ve build a model with s4083 too. It´s flying nice and thermals well, but i´ve missed dynamic (good l/d at high speed, energy retention..) . After adding ballast this point was much better. What about the flying characteristics of the frigate?

Bernd


Bernd

Frigate is a good glider, I think the best one I design, good glide ratio about 1:26, good speed whitout sink to mutch, and a very good capacitie to advance up wind.
I got to reconsider a spoiler, just because I have some difficulties to get rid of strong thermals, but in fact I prefer clean wings.
Frigate is to light, and added some ballast is good, for the entire flight.

But it still a strong glider.

Sorry, but my English is terrible :cool:

Cebola
Brazil

[Cebola]

Histarter

On this weekend I will be whit others pilots and if you don't mind I will make a print of the rules and submit to them. In Brazil we are in the end of the winter time, and is a good momment to make gliders competitions.

Cebola
Brazil

[histarter]

Histarter

On this weekend I will be whit others pilots and if you don't mind I will make a print of the rules and submit to them. In Brazil we are in the end of the winter time, and is a good momment to make gliders competitions.

Cebola
Brazil
This contest is 10 years old. Joe Wurtz never flew it, although he was one of the concept contributors . Original MAX was 7 minutes. Then the year 2001 and it was reduced to 6 min to correlate with Albequrque NM findings. To date there has been only one 360L12 out of 250 attempts! With 5 min the Max, I am hoping to see an ocassional 300L12. :D I am mentioning this because concern for longer task deludes the concept of having a reasonable soaring factor, and have the scoring evaluate the reliability of accomplishment - and not how long one can stay up. Launch, find lift, and try to MAX out. :)

My last attempt yielded 303L7 (6 min Max) in 2003, and now I cannot stand or launch, so I am over the hill. I do have a couple of 'Thermalhoppers' that fly a lot stronger than I, that can hold up our end. :cool:

[histarter]

Just remebered a regulation that uncompasses aircraft design. Multiple entrys are encouraged, instead of changing aircraft in a data stream. This completes the package of aircraft design, plus pilot's experiences, for the statistical mill on reliability of task.

9. The pilot and aircraft is a team. If a backup entry is desired, it is totally separate! All of a 12 flight entry must be done with the same identities – i.e. no change in aircraft.

[Bernd Brunner]

Where can i find more infos about the HAM 2005 postal contest? It sounds very, very intesting!

[histarter]

Where can i find more infos about the HAM 2005 postal contest? It sounds very, very intesting!
This postal contest started 1995 with lots of interest from England, Australia, South Africa, and South America. The experts however wanted something that "was spectacular" instead of a QC grading system - and they weedled it into a blase' event that was difficult to engage (anti simplification).

My interest (and my group's) at the time was concerned about climbout skill, with enough performance to utalize altitude gained. Using the HAM technique, the score serves as a "batting average" and one can chart personal growth, compare design changes, plot size variations, and weather effects etc. Basically, I am more concerned about reliability of getting into lift, than to stand for long time periods as a captive to the air's state of affairs - boring!! :o
I am happiest at sport flying flat lands with 6 launches, and 6 dynamic 5min flights recorded - than one launch and 30 minutes of boredom! :confused:
My Book "Golden Age of Model Aviation" details this event, and design modifications that capitolize upon it. Available @ www.simsoar.com :)

It would be quite interesting to see how the Frigate fares.
One of the most effective machines for the task was a 3mtr Mirage that was close coupled - used frequently for HL, or zip start. The largest machine was a So African 147 inch F3J that won the event in its 3d year. The system actually favors about a 90 inch span, so that 2 to 3 mtr is a totally workable range. 1.5 mtr machines and Foamies never cut the mustard. :eek:
Personally, I would love to see a DSL be a winner (no histart)!, and if the DSL was a flying wing plank - I would be totally thrilled! (I do see some mathimatical support for this "rash view"). :D

[Bernd Brunner]

DSL??? Discus Side Launch????
Do you have some pic´s of the models used?

[histarter]

Never had an entry to date.

The hot shots are too chicken to support a unpopular event - that could give them fame by accomplishments. :D

Just picture a wing with no LE sweep (to yield launch pivot point) and TE sweep for taper. Area 1000"sq (re 3X greater than tractor design). Then to insure low speed flight, the hybridizing of the tractor design i.e. with a small stabilator to minimize wing reflex during slow flight for efficiency. :rolleyes:

Never happen! Because the industry wants to stick with penguins (look alikes)!

Built for efficiency with low tech materials (cheap) and the wing will never sell. For those that want spoilers, bottom of the wing, or split (top and bottom) work, but thats too complex - defined as different!! :eek:

Pardon the sarcasym. Its really meant to be humorous! :D

[prleitner]

What´s up, cebola?! This is a impressive desing! I have seen this model before, holding it with my own hands, but I will ever spend some time congratulating you by your creation. I belive that this model should became a kind of kit, sending our still young hobbie to some new level, creating a alternative way to buy good stuff without suffering with those terribles shipping delays end fiscal tributes. "Paca" would became a kind of "Frigate nest"!

"ABS!"

HGS!

[Cebola]

Hello to all

I am working in the project of the new Frigate, since mini Frigate (2ms span) is already flying.
This new project will be a F3J, but with two wing tips, one with aileron and another one without.
Its wingspan will be 11 feet and final weight of 30 Oz, and I still continue with the S4083, and the project already is sufficiently in advance.

So soon it is i ready I go place it here, on Rc Groups.

The plans I mean.
And the model after,of course!


Cebola
Brazil

[prleitner]

And waht about the minifrigate flight? Was as good as original frigate?
I havn´´t seen the "fragatolinha" ´s photos. Do you have it?
Did Cebolinha kept that naca 008 (?) profilie?

HGS!

[Cebola]

Mini Frigate as the same glide ratio than Frigate.

The conventional tail group convice me more than the V tail, just because it can perform turns in a small radius and lower altitudde than the V tail one.
Very light Mini Frigate weights only 12 oz, and a good JR reciever and servos, can do the work very nicely.

My son Cebolinha 9 (Leonardo) uses Mini Frigate has a trainer, and almost lost it in a strong thermal.

Has I make some changes (bad changes I mean) on my camera to make Ap's there are no focus for low distance photos anymore, despite all my efforts, the camera like's to be flying around all the time (no photos at the ground view).

In fact I kill a good Sony camera and this is a shame, mainly on Brazilian conditions, where Sony cameras costs a lot's of money.

But........we make some good photos and that is important in fact.

Maybe i will perform a "assault" to my doughter cameras and make some photos of Mini Frigate.

But , Mini Frigate is just a normal glider, nothing special.

Naca 008 is good enough to wing tips, and just and only for it.

Cebola
Brazil

[prleitner]

And what about the color escheme? You said, at evoo.com, that you weARE planning cover it with the orange monokot plastic. Is that it?

Are you going to make this f3j with a regular tail design or a v tail plane?

Abs!


HGS!

Paulo Leitner

Brazil