Crazy Max 3D

[Parkflyer]

I've noticed a lot of you fellas have the Crazy Max. I want to learn some 3D manuvers and thought this would be a good plane to learn on. It's cheap! Is this plane capable of some harriers and parachutes? If not, what is a relatively cheap plane that I can learn with?

[Basketcase]

I'm using the CrazyMax as an aileron trainer and aerobatic trainer. Not really sure what a harrier or parachute is so not sure if it is capable. It'll take everything I can throw at it. :D

Here's a couple of new foamies, that might be even closer to what you're looking for. I already have a CrazyMax and a SwitchBack Sport and am planning to buy one of the Katana's as the next step after the CM. The CM is for training and practice and the SB for flying. I crash the CM all the time from going too far and trying things I wouldn't dream of risking the SB with.

http://www.verticalrc.com/

Talked to Tim at Vertical today and he told me they would have online ordering up and running today or tomorrow.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hlight=vertical

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hlight=vertical

BC

[johnhlong]

I've just been sitting back reading all the threads trying to decide which plane to get.

The TM seems to simple. I have a couple of 2ch gliders now.
I have a helicopter that I can hover.

Now I would like to get something that is a slowflyer but would be a good 4ch trainer.

Basketcase, you seem to make a good case for the CM as a trainer.

If that is the case, what else do I need to set it up correctly?

John

[Basketcase]

Hi John, I don't know if I'd call the CrazyMax a slowflyer or a trainer. It's really more of a parkflyer, especially when training. :) I need about a soccer field to fly it.

After the 'moth I got a HL Stearman and added ailerons. After flying it a couple of times and finding out how fragile it was. I decided I needed something more 'crashable' to learn with.

The CM was a BIG step up. But I wanted to try aerobatics and it looked like the best choice. Plus it's very durable.

It depends what kind of flying you want to do and if you plan to crash it a lot.

A Switchback Sport would be a lot better aileron trainer, and you can get a 3D wing for it when your ready. But I'd only recommend it if your flying style does not include frequent crashing. :p

My Switchback flies nicer than the CM but I'd be heartbroken if I crashed it so try not to do anything too risky with it. With the CM I'll try anything.

As far as setting it up, you'd need a 15 amp speed control, 4 channel rx and 3 or 4 sub-micro servos. There's not much battery room. About the largest that will fit is 8 cells 5/4AAA or 8 cells 2/3A. I've tried both and prefer the recommended 5/4's. AAA's would work too but have slightly less duration.

The good part is all the gear will also fit in a Switchback.

Hope this isn't too rambling.

BC

[johnhlong]

I don't think anybody plans to crash their airplane but I am ould enough to accept reality :(


This will be my first 4ch.

I want to try the basics. I have the FMS simulator and can practice on it also.

If I understand you, the switchback is a better trainer but not much joy if you crash it.
The CM is not as forgiving but is easy to repair.

I don't plan on crashing but reality is I will a bit as I learn 4ch.

I think the idea of getting the plane back in the air quickly looks like the better choice.

Have I missed something????

John

[Basketcase]

Hi John, I think you got it. :)

It's worked very well for me, and I think with your experience and outlook you shouldn't have any problems either.

Some Probond will fix almost anything that breaks on the CM. The front of the fuse and the firewall have taken some serious crashes and usually it's ready to go again as soon as the glue dries.

Best of luck,

BC

[CoClimber]

I'd like to add that I've seen a few Switchbacks dorked in without damage. I've been known to be on the sticks some of the time.;)

I've also rammed a Switchback 3D into the ground at full power in high wind that resulted in my son building me a new fuselage. It probably could have been fixed but my son wanted to try building one.

Doug

[Basketcase]

Hi Doug, I dodn't mean to imply that the Switchback was a fragile plane. It's just that I like it so much that I try not to do anything too insane with it. :p Although I've had a couple of close calls, so far I haven't done any damage to it.

The CrazyMax, on the other hand, has been subjected to some flying and some crashing :eek: that you wouldn't want to see done to a Switchback. It would be like entering a nice brand new sports car in a demo derby. :D :D It just wouldn't be 'right'.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, for normal flying where crashing is only a possiblity the SB is perfect. For learning/practicing extreme flying where crashing is almost guaranteed the CM makes a far better sacrificial victim. :p

But I think my landings are finally shaping up enough to make some retracts feasible. The only dilemma is which wing to mount them in. I want to get a 3D wing but should I put retracts in it or in the sport wing? My thought is to put retracts in the sport wing and use fixed with the 3D to save weight for better aerobatics.

I'm ready whenever the retracts are. :D

BC

[CoClimber]

BC, go ahead and crash. I've got more kits on the shelf. I'M KIDDING!!! :D :D

I will be mounting my new retract design into a sport wing shortly and will let you know how it works.

I like the idea of putting the retracts in the sport wing vs the 3D wing for the same reason you have - save weight in the higher performance wing. When I'm satisfied with my retract design, I will kit it first for the Sport wing.

Doug

[johnhlong]

Doug,

I'll be buying a switchback latter (both wings).

First I need something that will give me more time in the air in the begining untill I feel I can fly 4ch as good as I can fly my gliders.

Then the switchbacks for sure.

John

[dmiller]

I have been flying my Crazy Max for a month or so, and this being my first 4 ch I find it to be quite a handfull. I have about 20 flights on it now, and while I have not crashed it yet, I am still nervous everytime I fly it. I would like to get a Switchback, but I agree with Basketcase- It just seems like to nice a plane to crash.;) Maybe in a couple more months.:)

[Greg Covey]

The Crazy Max is a good plane to learn both basic and advanced aerobatics on. It is inexpensive and easy to repair.

For the "harriers and parachutes" mentioned by Parkflyer in the original post you'll need another power system.

I would have fun with it initially in stock form since it does come with the geared Speed 370 motor and then determine what power system you want to upgrade to.

Mine is still stock and I feel it is a great flyer with good power and duration! If you remove the stock wing incidence and beef up the plastic wing mount with a piece of balsa, you can do some amazing aerobatics with it even on only 3 servos. The 4 servo option would allow for even more advanced maneuvers.

My review should be out shortly.

Regards all.

[Parkflyer]

Greg,

Thanks for the response. I'm certainly no expert but I can do most aerobatic manuvers, inside-outside loops, inverted flight, immelman (sp) split-S but after seeing a video of a parachute and harriers I thought it was the coolest thing.

What type of power system would I need? Would a 480 do it or do I need to go to a brushless motor. I guess you need about 14 oz of thrust huh?

Look forward to your review

Parkflyer

[Parkflyer]

Greg,

Thanks for the response. I'm certainly no expert but I can do most aerobatic manuvers, inside-outside loops, inverted flight, immelman (sp) split-S but after seeing a video of a parachute and harriers I thought it was the coolest thing.

What type of power system would I need? Would a 480 do it or do I need to go to a brushless motor. I guess you need about 14 oz of thrust huh?

Look forward to your review

Parkflyer

[Basketcase]

Parkflyer, I recently tried installing a S400 in my CM. It did not work out for me and I currently have a GWS EPS 300-C mounted on it. Going to try a lower gear ratio and bigger props.

The main problem with a bigger motor is delivering the amps. The CM can fit about 8 600AE's or 800mah NiMH's maximum, but is happier with smaller packs.

The extra weight of the motor and batteries seems to just about cancel out the extra thrust.

My testing was skewed by not having (or being willing to buy some new packs for the test) the appropriate nicad packs. And a limited selection of props. My 2/3A 800mah Nimh's are not up to it.

On the other hand, whatever batteries you can't fit on the inside could probably be strapped to the outside. :)

Here's the thread about my experiment:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469

Please keep us informed if you try it.

BC

btw: the www.verticalrc.com site has online ordering working. I just ordered a Katana! :D Probably will retire the CM for the flight gear. Check out their movies!

[johnhlong]

Any suggestions as to which plane to use with FMS before I fly the CM.

John

[Ben74]

the CM is not too hard to fly, but it might be a bit much for a first aileron plane. you don't HAVE to use the rudder to fly it properly, so don't let the full house setup scare you.

my CM flies well on the stock powertrain, but i just ordered a GWS 300C DS system to try out. it's geared 6.6:1 and will spin a 12x6 prop on 8 x 720 NiMHs. i should get about 15 oz of thrust on a 14oz AUW. i'm only using one aileron servo to save weight. i'll let you know how it goes.

[Basketcase]

Hi John, sorry for not replying sooner. IMHO the closest flying, if not looking, models are the GP series by Shinichiro. I use the SW-Sports as a CrazyMax substitute and the GPSP as a Switchback sub.

Both have more power than the real thing but can be turned down in the .par file or just throttled back. Makes me wish I had that much (slimer) power available. :p

There are also some Acro planes, the Edge 540 and Giles probably fly better than the CM.

You can find them in Hanger 3 on Shinichiro's site:

http://www.hoops.ne.jp/%7Ekimagure-hikoki/FMSMODEL/Hanger_index.html

BC

[Kidknight]

I had just measured the thrust that my 370 w/ 3.76-1 ratio setup using the stock 7.5*5 prop gives me on my f-22 raptor (It's the same exact motor used, except reversed). With an 8-cell 600mah Nicad pack I was reading 15.3 oz. of thrust static. Calculating it out, I was pulling ~7 amps at half throttle(5min. run time).
So, my question being, what's the problem? You should have a fairly good vertical, with adequate run time. To back this statement up, a local CM at my field can vertical straight up for 50-60 feet at the end of the life of the pack. ;) :)

Originally posted by Parkflyer
Greg,

What type of power system would I need? Would a 480 do it or do I need to go to a brushless motor. I guess you need about 14 oz of thrust huh?

Parkflyer

[Greg Covey]

The geared 370 is a real gem of a setup. It is simply good cheap power with less weight than a speed 400 system! The Wattage version bolts onto a firewall and the GWS version mounts on a post like the DX (IPS) series.

In this case, to gain enough additional power while maintaining a similar current draw, you will likely need a geared brushless solution. The stock 800mAh cells for the CM may handle a 10amp discharge rate for short periods. If not, you would need to jump up into a heavier cell...and the design issue cycles over again. :rolleyes:

One advantage of the brushless motor is that you can simply add a cell (or two) extra to obtain a good power increase without hurting the motor.

Another option is to try a higher ratio GWS EPS (geared 370) setup. The Wattage version is a 3.75:1 ratio spinning a 7.5x5 prop. You could try a GWS version all the way up to a 6.60:1 ratio and spin an 11" or 12" prop. Essentially, you're trading top end speed for power.

In any case, the CM is a fun plane to bash because it is a great flyer and it already started out life ugly. :)

Regards.

[Ben74]

kidknight, how did you measure your thrust? 15oz from such a little prop seems unrealistic to me. i could be wrong of course. i certainly don't get that much thrust from mine though. running 8 NiCds would probably account for some increase over the 8 x 700 NiMHs i'm using. maybe i should try running some 500ARs. i wonder if this motor can last a reasonable number of flights at that kind of power. perhaps i will find out :D

[Kidknight]

Since I have the wattage 370 motor in the f22 (pusher plane), you can easily measure thrust by holding the plane with your hands ( just enough to balance), balancing the nose on a digital scale, and by using the tare (zero) option on the scale, you can get a rough estimate of the thrust. It will fluctuate a little from holding it, but once you get it under control it'll stay within about .4 oz of the real amount of thrust.

Just so you feel that I'm not making this up, w/ a 6 cell nicad pack:

quarter throttle - 2.4 oz
half throttle - 7 oz straight (no fluctuation)
full - 12 oz

8 cell nicad 600 pack (btw, this pack came from nesail with the intention of being used with a 14t Speed 400 colbalt motor, so it might be an "AR" pack:confused: )
half throttle - 10 oz
full "punch" - 15 and some change

after running the 6 cell pack for full duration at half power, it was fairly hot, but the motor was scortching hot!:eek: Never Again!

[Parkflyer]

So KidNight, are you saying you can hover with the Crazy Max?

[Kidknight]

I don't have the crazy max, just the same motor that comes with the crazy max. I have the wattage f22, which happens to weigh in at 20 ounces (can't hover). I just flew the f22 today, and I was able to pull straight up from level flight for about 40-50 feet or so before stalling (this was with the 8cell pack)...

So, with this same motor in the crazy max, I'd suppose that you might have a fairly good vertical.

BTW, If I really was into hovering, I would definitly want around 18 or 20 oz of thrust, not just enough to barely keep afloat...

[Kidknight]

by the way, I live at 30 feet above sea level, so that might give me little bit of an advantage using the stock setup....