Just read most of the closed downwind turn thread.

[Flight Engineer]

It looks like a lot of flyers don't realise that yank and bank is not a good way to fly.
Here is the missing piece to this misconception.

Load factor.


60degree turns are a 2g manouver. That means twice the lift required. That is why your models stall when you yank them round the turn.

Start your turn much sooner. Watch the aeroplane. Limit your angle of bank.

Happy landings.

[HELModels]

Thanks for the advice. I'm much smoother on the controls now. I fly nice gentle turns upwind, downwind, crosswind. Thermals give me Some trouble lately - trying to keep from stalling out of the lift. I fly like a turkey vulture, now for the most part. :)

Adios My Amigos

[gouch]

Just to question that 60* is a 2G manouver.
I'm far from arguing how true that is, but I find it a bit vague? Surely more info is required to say that a 60* turn ALWAYS equals a 2 G turn.....isn't there? Wouldn't speed have a factor in that, or the aircraft itself for that matter? I don't know, that's why I'm asking :)

Cheers
Paul

[pmackenzie]

A 60 degree bank in a coordinated turn, that maintains altitude will always be 2g.
( In a coordinated turn all of the lift comes from the wings. No fuselage "Knife edge" lift)
To try to explain without a picture:
The force of gravity is down at 1g. The force of lift (in a coordinated turn) is perpendicular to the wings.Call it L.
For the plane to neither climb nor descend the vertical component of the lift must also be 1 g.
Using trig: L cosine( 60) = g, so L=g/cos(60), so L=g/0.5), so L=2g. QED.
The effect of speed is to increase or decrease the actual radius of the turn.
Hope that helps,
Pat MacKenzie

[Sparky Paul]

Just to question that 60* is a 2G manouver.
I'm far from arguing how true that is, but I find it a bit vague? Surely more info is required to say that a 60* turn ALWAYS equals a 2 G turn.....isn't there? Wouldn't speed have a factor in that, or the aircraft itself for that matter? I don't know, that's why I'm asking :)

Cheers
Paul
.
Paul:
Pmackenzie wrote..
"A 60 degree bank in a coordinated turn, that maintains altitude will always be 2g."
It's the "maintains altitude" that makes the 2gs.
Obviously you can lose altitude at 60 degrees, and be at lower levels of g.

[gouch]

Sparky and Pat: It sure does help, thanks. I have heard this before, and I think it was even mentioned in the thread flight engineer spoke of, but it was not explained, and there was soo much stuff going on in that thread, I didn't know what to believe :rolleyes:

Thanks again
Paul