First plane for not-a-very-newbie ?

[Kai@UCSB]

Hi All,

I am looking for my first "non-handlanuch" thermal glider and hope can get some inputs from you. I flew slope gliders for two years and DLG for around one year.
I am now at Oregon area and want to try (learn) thermal sailplanes other than a DLG. :D

Since I am only a summer intern and live in a tiny room, so I probably have no place to do the assembly (although I love to). ARF/RTF/Used maybe the only choice for me.
What I am looking for is a RES plane which won't be too expensive. I guess nobody want to use a AVA to learn high-start or winch launch. :o Also, I hope the plane can do better on wind penetration. I know for those flat bottom airfoil like GL and OlyII may be not suitable for this criterion.

Any suggestion ? BOT ARF looks nice but I heard the ARF is not strong at all. Or should I just get a GL with spoiler modified to start with ?
Or if anyone want to sell their old toy ? Please let me know. :)
Thank you.

-Kai

[Ollie]

Glider - HLG TD / RES BOAR-POLY 2M
http://www.arthobby.com/gliders.html
Weight with paint, lead and radio ready to fly at 2 to 2.5 pounds. The thin airfoil will penetrate well. Good kit quality and price.

[thelocust]

There are two club-members here in Louisville who fly those BoT ARFs. The original production runs of those kits did have a critical issue with the wing structure near the tip panels (the balsa ran horizontal rather than vertical!)

Dynaflite Tech Notice:
http://www.dynaflite.com/techsupport/dyfa0500tech.html

According to that notice, the number of wing-failures have been "small", but through first-hand and second-hand accounts, that might have been an understatement. In any case, they claim (as of Oct 2003) to be improving or have improved the wing strength. I know they paid for more than a few of them to be shipped back to Dynaflite.

In any case, the fix for this is pretty easy to do, and that ship is a *great* flyer. Ed Wilson took 5th at the NATS RES last year with one!

As far as an RES ARF goes, either the BOT or the Art Hobby Boar would be good choices.

On either, a monster winch-launch may not be the best of ideas :)

[FWFlyer]

What I am looking for is a RES plane which won't be too expensive. I guess nobody want to use a AVA to learn high-start or winch launch. Do you have access to a winch (from a club or otherwise)?

Or should I just get a GL with spoiler modified to start with ?I've never flown the ARF GL, so I don't know how strong the wing is. But from the standpoint of being a great beginner's thermal plane, you can't go wrong.

[TTPAUL]

Try the T-Hawk
www.readytoflyfun.com
look up other threads on this and you will see there are a lot of coments on this plane. I have two

[Kai@UCSB]

Hi All,

thank you for the information, I may trying to get a used or ARF GL/BOT. Will post on for-sale forum to see if anybody have one.. :)

FWFlyer, yes, the club here have a winch thou...

TTPAUL, T-Hawk is not a glider I am looking for :D

-Kai

[aeajr]

I started my sailplane experience with an RTF and it has been wonderful.

The Spirit Select is a 2 meter RES sailplane that is completely assembled
with all the electronics installed and a 72 mhz radio system.

Here is a link to the site where it can be purchased it for $150 complete!
About the same price as a 3 channel RTF electric plane.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVK55**&P=7

Once you get it out of the box there is very little to do. Bolt on the tail,
balance the plane, put in the batteries, check everything and you are done.
You don't even need to charge batteries because the radio and the receiver use
standard AA and AAA batteries. You can switch to rechargeable at any time,
but I flew mine on regular batteries for a whole season. They last a long
long time. I think I flew on one set of batteries from July 15 to the middle
of August when I had to change the transmitter batteries. The receiver
batteries lasted till the end of September. That was probably 75 flights.

The plane has spoilers built into the wings. They are not functional when you
get the plane. You need to add 1 servo and the manual tells you how to set them up later. The radio
has an extra channel that will allow you to operate them. After about 50
flights, I enabled them to further my learning and flying experience. I think
they are a great addition and they were easy to add. Now I have
rudder/elevator AND spoiler controls.

I have 150+ flights on this plane.

Several other pilots in our club have purchased the Spirit Select and have
been very successful with it.

I definitely recommend the 2M Spirit Select as a first sailplane. There is
nothing to build, so you can put it up very quickly. And, if you do break
something, parts are readily available. If you already have a hobby grade 72
MHz radio, then you might prefer the ARF version, also highly recommended.

If you don't have a friend or a club where sailplanes are already flown, you
will want to have your own launcher. A short one, good for smaller fields,
called an up-start and can be purchasee for about $30.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE638&P=7

If you have a large field, a full size hi-start can be as little as $60.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE636&P=7

If you can spend a bit more, I think this hi-start from NE Sailplanes is a better choice:
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=875

There are more expensive launchers out there, including electric winches, but
these are excellent to get started and will get you to an altitude where you
can learn to fly the plane and can learn to catch thermals. Hi-starts are
very easy to use, even if you are teaching yourself.

How to use a Hi-Start
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

If this RTF sailplane idea interests you, please ask any questions you like.
I would be happy to share my experiences.

If you have your own electroncics, the ARF is $99
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMK19&P=7

[glidagida]

Kai, I have a few suggestions for you after burying my faithful old [15 years] BOT at our recent LSF nationals at Jerilderie in Australia. The BOT is a very nice plane provided you get the washout right on the tips, but it just will not penetrate with the modern ships. You can't go wrong, its a lovelly plane for RES.

Another RES ship worth trying and it should penetrate a little better than the 'AVA' is the Hot Avia ARF 'Soprano' with 122 inch span and MH32 section available over there from Isthmus Models for $650:

<http://www.isthmusmodels.com/>.

Talk to Mark, I'm sure he will help you, and with your experience you should have no problems with the handling.

You do not say that you are flying RES or aileron, if you are in to aileron on the slope another good model, but completely different, is the 2.5 metre Art Hobby'Thermic 2.5 ' for $175:

<www.arthobby.com>

It is a brilliant little aileron ARF glider which will take a little longer than the Soprano to construct, but it can take you further, the guys on this forum dote on it see:

<http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3090933>

Now to be above board I have to declare I am biased as a sell both these planes on my brand new website in Australia:

<www.rc-sailplane.com.au>

but let me say that I have done a lot of research [6 months] to get this site up and running and I looked at one heap of sailplanes. I only sell what impresses me. I guess its a compliment to the Thermic 2.5 to say that I am building one as quickly as I can.

Good thermals to you!

[thelocust]

Mark from Isthmus on an RCSE post mentioned he'd be at the US NATS coming up end-of-July w/ Soprano's for $625!

[Kai@UCSB]

Hi All,

I really appreciate your input. Soprano/AVA/Topza are of course good planes but I probably can't afford at this stage.
I also look at one used Blizzard 86" at http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=387615
However, I cannot find any review or experience at RCGroups about that plane. Otherwise that's a pretty good one for me.
I am also considering to get a ARF BOT or ARF GL and remove all the cover and add spoiler.

P.S. Regarding the arthobby line, since I really like those build-up plane, I probably want to go for some other lines at this time. I like to see those transparant like wings flying under the sun (like my DLG Photon-II).

-Kai
-Kai

[Mark Miller]

Since most of what I sell right now is either built-up or expensive I would suggest either a Bird of Time ARF or a Gentle Lady Arf depending on your size prefrence. I don't sell them but have seen them fly and I like them. Maybe someday after your intern days you can check out a Soprano.

BTW...Due to a delay at the manufacturer I will not have any Sopranos at the NATS. I was all set up to have an order come in just before the NATS but the order before that will arrive about NATS time and they are all sold. I hope t have more soon.

Mark
Isthmus Models

[wakumann]

Kai,
flying already slope gliders for 2 years don't settle with a RES
It can (will ) be pretty boring without ailerons.


Just M2C

Cheers
Thomas

[Kai@UCSB]

Thomas,

You are right, but RES likely are not that expensive than aileron ones :o
Would you please share any suggestion about the first-aileron-thermal-plane-for-not-a-very-newbie ? :D

-Kai

[wakumann]

Kai
maybe a 100" Model from Art Hobby Sierra or Thermik.
For thermaling should be 100" or more or good eye sight. IMO

Cheers

Thomas

[aeajr]

Kai,
flying already slope gliders for 2 years don't settle with a RES
It can (will ) be pretty boring without ailerons.


Just M2C

Cheers
Thomas

Thermal flying is very different from slope flying. RES planes are excellent thermal planes. And they have many advantages.

When you are flying at great distance, a RES plane is much easier to manage since it tends to self level. An aileron plane requires much clearer view of the attitude of the plane or you can more easily put it into a spin or a downward spiral. RES planes don't have to be returned to level, they do that automatically.

When you land a RES plane, the spoilers can provide excellent braking but do not increase the tendancy to tip stall the way flapperons do. Nor do you run into the flap trap of slowing down below the stall speed, back off the flaps and drop out of the sky!

They are much simpler to operate so you can focus more of your attention on the thermal. Any three channel radio will do. If you like you can use a computer radio with a mix to add elevator compensation to the spoilers to help keep the plane level.

I am not saying RES are better than aileron planes, but thermal flying is far different from slope flying. Lower speeds, smoother moves and much greater distances. At times, when you are working a thermal, a well trimmed plane can be put into a slight circle and be allowed to fly itself for many minutes at a time.

I once put my Spirit RES plane into a beautiful thermal and was hands off for almost 10 mintues as it circled and climbed based on two clicks of left rudder trim.

RES planes are wonderful for thermaling!

[wakumann]

Hi aeajr.

thanks for you explanation, but no need.
When you are flying at great distance, a RES plane is much easier to manage since it tends to self level.
That's part what I don't like I prefere to fly actively and like some challenge.


am not saying RES are better than aileron planes, but thermal flying is far different from slope flying. Lower speeds, smoother moves and much greater distances

Guess no never flew real slope's which requires skills to survive big sinks and circle in a valley 1500 ft and more below..
Also smoother moves are much more imported at high speed turns than as cruising around for excample (IMO)

Done RES gliders and moved on (approx. 25 years ago)

Cheers
Thomas

[aeajr]

Hi aeajr.

thanks for you explanation, but no need.

Done RES gliders and moved on (approx. 25 years ago)

Cheers
Thomas

Sorry, I was not clear. My comments were not directed to you. They were for Kai@UCSB's benefit. He is interested in learning and would like a RES plane. I was pointing out some of the strengths of RES planes for a new flyer.

Some people just like the more relaxed RES type flying rather than the more active flying of an aileron plane.

Each to his own.

[TIA]

Some people just like the more relaxed RES type flying rather than the more active flying of an aileron plane.

Each to his own.

Very true.

IMO, it's not about what you're doing but the company you're doing it with.

Whether it's flying RES to DSing or even playing cards I find more pleasure in hanging with friends. The flying is just the icing on the cake!

;)

[FWFlyer]

Kai,

Did you get a plane yet? Just curious.

[Kai@UCSB]

I finally got a Majestic and flew it at a PASS thermal contest last weekend. As my first TD contest, my friends help me to run the winch. I do have a lot of fun !!
My Majestic is on the heavy side (70oz ?) but it thermals VERY WELL. It is build without those major mod (extra washout and cf boom), but it flies really great. As long as not tring to do very tight turn without speed, the tip stall doesn't bother me very much. The heavy plane can move fast and cover the sky pretty well.

The first contest day is very windy. My majestic perfrom very well on 8-10mph wind and ends up with 3rd place. (not many attend thou :o). I made a 7mins fly in a 10 mins window.
The second day is a very good day. I made all the 10mins window fly but keep doing stupid things on landing. :(

Anyway, just want to share... :D
And I will keep practicing..

-Kai

[aeajr]

Sounds like you found a good one.

Congratulations on the plane and the contest.

[TIA]

Congrats!!!!!!

Looks like you're ready for Visalia in October!

:D

[Jim Frahm]

Kai,

I'm so glad the plane is working out for you and that it arrived in good condition. Great job on your first contest. The idea is to have fun and it sounds like you did.

Keep looking for lift,
Jim

[carrinsr]

[QUOTE=Kai@UCSB]Hi All,

I guess nobody want to use a AVA to learn high-start or winch launch.

Not so. The AVA launches very well. And If you REALLY want the best of the best RES sailplane then INHO the AVA is it, especially for TD. I've owned a lot of sailplanes of all sizes, and the AVA will keep you smiling the longest.

David