RC FOAM Aircraft carrier

[secretagentman]

Well...it's not scale so I didn't put it there and I didn't think it would belong anywhere else so here it is.

I've been building foamie airplanes and loving it. And I like RC anything really and I had this thick foam that isn't any good for aircraft and I thought to myself 'what can I do with it'. Well it hit me like cannonball....AIRCRAFT CARRIER!

So off I went to start this rather large project. The overall length is 81.25"
I'm not 100% sure yet of how it will be powered, but so far the best idea is a standard 2stroke Homolight(sp?) engine from a weedwacker. I was thinking of using dual nitro engines, but they're rather expensive for anything with good power and well let's face it...I'm cheap. :) So here's this weedwacker that my father in law has he's not used in over a year and he says...have at it! So now I just have to come up with a drive system to turn 2 or 4 screws with it.

It will be loaded with gizmos and goodies, but that can all come later. Now I'm to a difficult juncture of figuring out exactly how to use these 2" thick sheets of foam to make the hull. Overall this isn't hard, but it's the nose of the carrier that has be troubled...anyone got any ideas?

[Kmot]

This is an ambitious project and I wish you well! As for power, why not electric? You don't need gas power necessarily and a carrier certainly is not a speed boat. And electric can be run in any pond as opposed to gas/nitro. This barge will need lots of keel weight and nothing like a 60 pound 12V lead acid battery powering your 12V automotive windshield wiper or heater blower motor converted to run a gearbox & driveshafts for your props. Get the motors at your local auto recycling yard for a buck or two. ;)

[secretagentman]

Thanks!
Electric isn't a bad idea....I guess I really hadn't thought it out to that depth yet. Lead acid batteries would indeed give the needed weight as well as yield adequate run times. Hmmm.... Oh well... I'm not to a point where I need to have figured the power system so I'll give it some more thought.

[arrow5]

Well done, Kmot is 100% correct ,electric, car windscreen wiper motors for example. Radar turned by cheapo electric screw-driver running on low voltage to get correct rpm. Toy stores can yeild details,crew figures, planes, deck vehicles, cranes etc if you keep your eyes peeled for the right scale. No problem with curves at bow , laminate a block of your foam and carve and sand the shape. Think about skinning the whole hull with aeromodellers wing skinning fibreglass and epoxy. Cheaper would be covering it with brown parcel wrapping paper then using polyester resin and glass. Check www.warshipmodelsunderway.com for how-to-do-it articles and ideas. My carrier is on page 6 in the gallery, the whole bottom from waterline down was made of blue foam then skinned. Keep everything above waterline light as possible. Good luck and keep us posted, pics etc. Plan ahead...transport for example , launching, it`ll weigh a lot, dont give yourself a hernia..I did !Floodable tanks for water ballast worth thinking about.

[secretagentman]

The only issue I seem to be running into with plotting out electric is what type of ESC can I use? I have no clue what kind of amps wiper or window motors would draw. I assume it might be a good bit. Also I was thinking of using an ESC with reverse ability just in case I happen into a sticky situation. There's also the option of a bow thruster? Got any thoughts on that?

Yeah I have piles of small electric motors with gearboxes for running the radar..etc. Originally I had thought of using a couple thin sheets of copper or other easy to bend metal to cover the bow area for a little weight/added durability around the water level. And the rest of the ship...including the deck...I was thinking of using some Monokote or the like from my airplane arsenal. But I suppose that fiberglassing it would indeed be better, especially the waterline area. ;)

Transport....well...that comes pretty simple I think. Ford F150 truck bed should be enough. ;) I'm not too concerned about weight. The heavy parts will be the motors and batteries. And the batteries will be easily removed prior to transport and only placed in the ship once it's in the water. FYI...the deck as is after gluing only weighs a mere 3.3lbs. I'm going to guesstimate that the rest of the ship (foam only) will weigh less than 7lbs.

Thanks for the tip of floodable ballast tanks...may have to go that route! It takes over 10lbs to submerge a 12x8" chunk of this foam! And that's rather tiny compared to the rest of this beast! Which is why I'm thinking of making a modified carrier hull that is flat bottomed to ride the top of the water rather than a full hull. Thoughts?

Also anyone got any ideas on making a gearbox or pulley setup to run more than 2 props off 1 or 2 motors? I'd really like to go for the full 4 props. I'm thinking about heading out to the woodshop to see what I can do with some blocks of wood and some steel shafts/bearings.

EDIT: arrow...that boat of yours is a beauty!!

[CG Bob]

You might want to make the trip towards Detroit for the Seawys Great Lakes Model Boat Show & Regatta (http://www.michiganmodelboats.com/2005GLSMBSR/main.htm), on July 16-17. There will be vendors and others that can help you figure out how to power that beast. You'll find some other building hints here (http://greatlakesmodeling.com/tips/tips_1.htm#Hull%20Design).

[Ozprey]

Never mind buying planes, get a confident friend to land a GWS Tiger Moth on there :) ! a real Aircraft carrier! Good luck with the project, I look forward to hearing the maiden voyage reports!

Peter

[viking57]

secretagentman, Saw this on e-bay just listed, dont know if its heavy enough for your application but it is just what you are looking for , if its not big enough you can still get the idea.....e-bay item#5983994377....regards, John

[arrow5]

You are a bit like me in as much as I`m an aeromodeller forced into being a boatie ! I had to re-invent the wheel and I think you are learning like I had to ( slightly different scale, but same problems) You will hear "Oh I wouldnt do it like that" a million times. First the flat bottom ; I know of one 20ft King George V battleship (manned, two people) that is flat bottomed and works just fine . It would be pointless to fit multi-screws unless you have a scale shaped hull, however you can cheat on the depth below the waterline. Put a couple of hardwood runners 1"sq. along the bottom of hull , long as you can, glassed in and scale, or slightly larger, bilge keels at 45 degrees to both stiffen the hull and aid straight line running, they will also lessen rolling. Because of it`s size I think static display is inevitable, folk will ask you to bring it along to the Navy Days or club events because it is big. Skin the hull right up to deck level and maybe right over that too. Water ballast, one cubic metre of water weighs one ton but it weighs the same as the water your hull displaces ! Multi-motors for multi screws, simpler in the long run. CGBob`s advice is correct, go to a club event, take it with you even if you dont want to show it to the public (yet) but show it,part built, to experienced boat modellers, you will learn more in 1/2 an hour chat than months on the Forums. See the traders/vendors and second-hand stuff at the show(s) . Forget Monocote coverings. Reverse is essential and available in the boat world if not the aircraft world (yet). Ozprey, Tiggies not very Naval ! We use Beeline Models "Sopwith Pups" with GWS motor/gear-box. Mini helicopters are ten a penny now too. Shows us more pics S.A.M. Plenty of tips on WMU site I mentioned in previous post,plus a good Forum. Thanks for kind words re my boat. Pity we hadnt got together earlier so that I could have persuaded you to make yours big enough to sit in !

[secretagentman]

CGBob...thanks for the link! Most excellent stuff!

Ozprey...that's funny because I have a friend I've been talking to about just that! He's going to buy a Hirobo fairly soon and we were discussing a helipad option. :)

Viking...THANKS! That's an excellent find for sure...might save me a lot of trouble. And to think I was actually just about to learn to weld just for this project! Though I still may just because I've been wanting to anyhow, but this might save me some time at this point. Good price so far too. But not sure it's large enough. I was thinking I might need props in the range of 2-3" for that semi scale appearance and proper power.

Arrow...thanks again for excellent info! Very helpful insight. Well I don't currently have nearly enough foam to make it large enough to sit in and I got all the foam I have for free...so I was really just going by the foam I had for the size. After thinking more about glassing the hull I am now thinking of glassing the top of the flight deck as well. It would give it more stability and make for a good smooth surface. I think it would also allow me to possibly sit on top of it as I thought I may be able to in the beginning. ;) The only question with the added 193lbs is the power running the boat...will it be enough. ;)

Thanks again to everyone! Since this is my first major boat project the help is really appreciated! I'm a pretty skilled builder as I grew up with a father who is an excellent carpenter and I followed along in woodworking, but branched my own way into electronic gizmo's and whatnot. So the skills are there, but I still have a lot to learn as to what's available for use and what is tried and true in different areas of modeling. :)

EDIT: oh and arrow...reverse is here in airplanes. :) VPP (variable pitch prop) designs have come for 3D flying. They are basically the same thing as a heli rotor variable pitch system, but redesigned for airplanes. Makes for some really crazy 3D flying! Look it up and watch some videos..I'd give you a link, but I can't think of one off hand.

[Choppa Nutta]

been building a 1/720 constellation recently I like the idea too:)

[arrow5]

Choppa ! You pop-up every where ! Sorry no PM computer buff couldnt help. Running on candle-light at moment. S.A.M. Yes I have seen the aero VP props and the effect in flight, Mad. It would have been easier to do it electricaly maybe ? That is easiest option for boats. I got my blue foam free also, PR lady of insulation company`s father served on HMS Ark Royal during WW II, over a £1000s worth ! Nice lady. Sitting on top of your model...see if you can ggggg Googgggglesorry the Tromso Model Boat club in Norway. They do just that ,like bucking broncos. I suppose that is what 6 months of sun then 6 months of darkness does for you !

[Choppa Nutta]

what can I say, I have a broad range of interests like your good self ::)

[arrow5]

Not me with helis but autogyros yes! Speed on water, flying-boats , seaplanes, hydros,etc etc.

[secretagentman]

Well it's time for an update!
After much deliberation with myself I finally settled on a plan for the hull. As you can see in the pictures the small aft section is being glued together. It's drying as I write this and will be ready for sanding..etc in the morning. Tomorrow morning or afternoon I will glue the larger mid section on and begin work on the bow. The width of the hull comes to just about 16". The height at the back from the top of the flight deck is 12.3" or so.

It takes a lot of tape to hold parts together while the Probond - "Gorrilla glue" expands! ;) And of course you see a large electric motor which may be the type used to power this thing. I can easily get more so they will be matched. At 12v they run very well. I have no idea their RPMs and I have no way of measuring. Nor do I know torque, but trying to grab the shaft with a rag is just useless. They can be run on up to 24v, but I will only be using 12v. I still have not decided on 2 or 4 motors/props.

Also I am debating on what to use to fill in all the large gaps, dents..etc. I think standard auto body Bondo type fill should suffice, but I would prefer something that is cheap as this fill is only to make it smooth enough to glass everything in and will not matter later. I guess drywall spackling compound is also an option....have to rummage around to see if I have any.

Sadly it looks as though it may cost upwards of $100 for me to glass the hull & flight deck!! ACK! Though I suppose I should have expected as much with the size of this thing. This project, as with so many others, is turning out to cost a lot more than I had planned on spending. ;) But isn't that the way all good projects end up?

[Choppa Nutta]

looking good keep it up you dont need to glass it brown paper glued on filled and sanded and then salt water proof paint.

I only say that because you are going for a semi scale model, perhaps if you were to go for a full on scale model then maybe, but this is just my perspective ::))

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Be careful if you decide to try the auto body bondo. It may be polyester based, and polyester resins will attack and melt the foam. Be sure to test the bond on a scrap piece of foam before you try any on the model. ;)

[Kmot]

Lookin' good so far!!!

[secretagentman]

Umi-- good point...been a while since I've used Bondo!! Thanks for the reminder...that could have been a disaster!!!

As of now the large midsection is curing and I've begun designing and cutting the bow.

[arrow5]

I know it is a bit of a "quick-build" effort but at that scale it would be a good idea to go with the glassing on top of the foam. Car body-filler (Bondo in USA) is very much heavier and doesnt have the strength plus entails endless dusty (dangerous) or muddy wet sanding. Brown paper stuck on with wallpaper paste (Polycell) shrinks when dry to give a smooth resin proof barrier ( polyester resin desolves the foam). Prolonged immersion will soften the glue even with paint on it. Say what you like ,water or a very damp atmosphere WILL get inside somehow. Painted brown paper alone isnt ding-proof either. You have considered water-ballast, even putting plastic gallon containers will leak or carry drips inside...water water everywhere etc etc. Keep going.

[secretagentman]

With the bondo I'm not worried about strength or anything else...just something to smooth over the big dings and gouges so it's easier to apply the glass for a smooth bump free surface. :)

As for brown paper vs. glass....I'll stick with the glass! ;) It may cost more, but will be better/stronger in the long run.

Once I get the foam all glued together I plan to do a water float test to see just how much balast I'm going to need. From there I will figure out how/if I will build watter ballast tanks. If I do go with ballast tanks I will most likely use some sort of standard plastic jug/tank and some 12v sump pumps to automate filling/evacuating them once the ship is in the water.

[Choppa Nutta]

just a thought like I say.
still though, we wait with baited breath for the christaning :)

[secretagentman]

Hehe, I can't wait myself! Every chance I get to work on it I wish I could finish more! I'll just be happy when I can get her in the water for the first time without power or anything else just for the sake of seeing what she'll look like afloat.

[arrow5]

Maybe I didnt make it clear. You use brown paper to seal the foam then apply the f/glass and resin on top when dry. I have seen complete model ship`s hulls "skinned" with car body-filler like a thick , heavy egg-shell and if dropped (it happens) crack like an egg. Your bilge-keels could be made from 90o angle-iron to help with the ballasting. A lot of smallish 1 and 2 pint square plastic milk bottles (Tescos) are better than gallon containers for trimming. Check all deodrant container caps for "radar domes", Toothpaste or smaller tube caps for Tannoy speakers,( Salvon is perfect for 1/24th scale PA system speakers), kids toys for anything useful. Split pins (cotter pins)for stanchions, welding wire for railings,garden centre for safety netting and so on. Boat model stuff in model shops is pricey. We need some more pics, sounds good.

[secretagentman]

AAHHH...got ya on the brown paper! Maybe I should use some epoxy instead of a resin compound for the glass then?! I like the angle iron idea!!

Deoderant cap "radar domes" nice! That's the kind of thinking I do. ;) I look at just about everything with the mindset of "how could I use that for hobby building". As you said the real stuff costs a lot of money, too much! Thanks for all the suggestions!

[arrow5]

Epoxy will have little or no effect on the foam. Beware of thinning it with cellulose thinners though, polyester resin will eat the foam but is cheaper hence the paper barrier. A test on scrap foam always a good idea. Dont forget to bond-in a couple of one inch hardwood (B&Q) strip along most of the bottom of hull, stiffens and helps with straight running. :)

[secretagentman]

Well I have found some 1sq yard sheets of fiberglass cloth for $5 at a local hardware store, but they only have resin compound. And it has no indication if it has polyester or not. Nor do any of the employees know if it is safe to use on the foam. :( They all knew what I was talking about with possibly melting the foam, but could not verify either way. I found some Elmer's brand resin epoxy compound that says it does not have any solvents which I see as a good sign. But still I'm not sure I trust it. And at $15/16oz I really don't want to buy it just to find out!! I really need some good trustworthy info on what brands are ok to use on the foam. I'm going to keep looking for epoxy and will try a couple local auto parts stores tomorrow. I really don't want to go through the trouble of covering the entire thing with brown paper first and THEN covering it AGAIN with resin and fiberglass .....bleh!

Well I finalized my design for the stern today and cut a couple pieces to fit. I'm happy with the results and should be able to finish the basic hull tomorrow. I decided to use FFF (fan fold foam) of the 1/4" variety to create the curves for the stern as using the 2" thick foam was going to call for a LOT of sanding to get the correct shape. But with the thin stuff all I have to do is bend. I will of course take some pictures and post them once I am finished with this step.

Then comes more bending of thin foam to create the several odd shapes that protrude from the main hull in several locations. I just want to remind everyone that this is NOT meant to be a scale model!! ;) So some things may not appear exactly as you would see in a nice scale model, but this is more of just a fun build.

arrow- I have not forgotten your suggestion about the runners! I have been working that into my build each step of the way. I know exactly where I'm going to put them! I plan to put 2 at 45degrees at the outer hull edge and 2 at 90degrees in the middle, evenly spaced of course.

I just want to get some input here though....2 props or 4? I'm also thinking 2" diameter?! Or should I go to 3" diameter? Somehow I think that's too big and that 2" should be fine.

[Choppa Nutta]

keep it simple less to go wrong, besides whats going on visually under the water line isnt that important is it ?

[arrow5]

:) The brown paper idea is the way to go. You will see the hull almost as it will be when finished, all the bumps and lumps that need attention with auto filler that will be too late to fix once the glassing has been done. It takes little time, use thinned white wood glue ,25% water or wall-paper paste (not as hard as wood glue). this gives you the option of glassing with polyester (car shop) resin if you cant get epoxy. Model shops sell epoxy for wing-skinning. Correct on the runners. Two props for simplicity, I`d go with one but I`m a lazy bast***. Show some progress pics.More fun boats needed in this world I say ! Forget the rivet-counters go for an illusion or say its a Russian or Peruvian prototype or " ex USN ,modified when sold to Pakistan Navy!". That`ll send them scurrying for their reference books and away from the pondside. There is a web-site devoted to carriers worth a look, maybe some ideas for you, they`d like to see your efforts too I`m sure. www.carrierbuilders.net

[secretagentman]

Ok time for another update!
Here we have the right side of the bow taped in place and partially being glued. In a way I hate to have used the thin foam for this, but as I'm going to cover with glass it really doesn't matter. The thin stuff is so easy to mold and shape that it is ideal for creating the odd curvature on the stern. As the right side dries I will cut and fit the left side tonight.

[arrow5]

Looking good.

[secretagentman]

Thanks! More pic to come this evening.

So now I'm deciding on an ESC. A cheap solution I'm thinking about is this http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/159101.asp
I would rather not go to this level, but it's a very nice ESC! http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/628014.asp Anyone know of anything similar or in between the 2 in a mid price range?

But does anyone have suggestions? An ESC designed for 2 motors? A single ESC with parallel or series motor hookup? Or 2 ESC's in parallel?

[CG Bob]

I've had good luck with the Vantec 411 (http://www.vantec.com/ret.htm) series; and the Proboat waterproof ESC (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB2314). I have a Vantec 411P in my CGC Tamaroa model; 51 inches long & 30 pounds. I have a pair of the Proboat ESC's in a 47" long USCG 378' High Endurance Cutter I'm working on.

[jeepers1940]

Hi Bob, I know you're busy with your commissioned Catalina and your WHEC is probably on a back burner, but is there any chance that we could have a pictorial update on your WHEC? And, for that matter, on the Cat? I had forgotten just how big your TAM is, and your WHEC is going to be even larger! Can't wait to see it!
Bill

[CG Bob]

I had forgotten just how big your TAM is, and your WHEC is going to be even larger! No - the TAM is 51" and the WHEC is 47"; the TAM is the larger boat right now. In the back room is a 52" f/g hull for a USCG 210' WMEC. I'll post some pictures in a day or two of my cluttered workbench. The current projects are: Sterling C-C Catalina (commissioned build); USCG 378' WHEC; USS HAMMERHEAD SS 364 (Manitowoc, WI built Balao sub); a 16' mahogany "Gentleman's Runabout"; and a 37" barge.

[viking57]

In the imortal of rays dad : HOLY CRAP! and I thought I was bad! Thanks Bob!!

[jeepers1940]

Bob, thank you for the correction; I may have confused scale ratios and dimensions of your CG boats. We have a small USCG station here (Natchez, MS) that is charged with the responsibility of maintaining the channel buoys in this stretch of the Mississippi River. They have a small two-story building, and a (River)-class boat coupled with a buoy tender barge with a crane. Several years ago, the boat stationed here was a brand new one fresh from the builder - seems it was named after a U.S. river. Would be glad to get you some 35 mm. color pics of these craft, but not sure in our post-9-11 times that would be possible. You'd just about have to go on their property to be able to get decent photos. At one time, that would probably have been allowed, but
now - I doubt it.
Bill

[secretagentman]

Ok here's what I've done thus far. Obviously the forward hull needs sanding and shaped, but there it is. Now I'm debating on wether to leave the hull flat sided or to add the protruding areas that I've circled in the last picture. Of course to leave it as is would be easiest and most would still realize it's a carrier and not think much of it, but on the other hand I very well may get asked why on earth it's missing those portions. But as Arrow said before...maybe I could just call it a prototype from another country sold to Pakistand.. :p I don't know...but that will come tomorrow or the next day anyhow. :)

And remember...she's 81.25" long. :)

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Now I'm debating on wether to leave the hull flat sided or to add the protruding areas that I've circled in the last picture. Of course to leave it as is would be easiest and most would still realize it's a carrier and not think much of it, but on the other hand I very well may get asked why on earth it's missing those portions.

Be careful you are starting to act like a scale modeler...Looking at pictures no less. :rolleyes: You are treading a high wire now. :p Careful which way you fall.
I was looking at your bow shape earlier, and decided to just let you build for fun, however now that you have used a picture for referance...

http://images.google.com/images?q=Aircraft+carrier&hl=en

:D

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/cvn-68-pics.htm

[CG Bob]

We have a small USCG station here (Natchez, MS) that is charged with the responsibility of maintaining the channel buoys in this stretch of the Mississippi River. They have a small two-story building, and a (River)-class boat coupled with a buoy tender barge with a crane.
Bill That would be USCGC GREENBRIER (WLR 75501). The Coast Guard Cutter GREENBRIER is homeported at Shore Side Detachment Natchez, MS. Servicing the Lower Mississippi from mile 363 in the north to mile 155 in the south, along with parts of the Red and Atchafalaya rivers, the GREENBRIER's primary mission is maintaining and repairing the numerous aids to navigation located in it's area of responsiblity. The GREENBRIER can also serve as a search and rescue platform if need be.

[secretagentman]

lol...well Umi I actually have already seen over half those pics and have used them for a very rough reference in this project. But since I really don't want to spend the time (or money) necessary to build a scale carrier of this size I haven't used them for much other than to get a rough idea of what it should resemble. But....straight sides? I really don't know yet.....

And I think I'm going to go with the Proboat ESC even if it's just temporary. It handles 40amps (50peak) works up to 12v input and only costs me $44 after shipping. Not bad at all!! And the reviews of it are very good! If decide to upgrade later I really like the RET Captain ESC's, but for now they're a little more $$ than I want to spend.

[arrow5]

Hmmm, the angled deck ? Protrusions ? Some choices. You will need some detail, the trick is how far do you go. I think I`d go for pure fantasy,needs angled-deck if fairly modern. The forward circled platform make smaller or eliminate, alter "the island" so that nobody will make comparison with a known prototype. Chose a period in history, Korean war for example and do an average type. Watch top-heavy problems. Looking good.

[moses]

thats a big boat :)

[secretagentman]

hehe...indeed it is! I can lay down on my side in the hull!!! :)
Ok so I just decided I wanted to float it now that the basic hull is complete. So I popped open the hottub which hasn't been opened for about 6 months and tossed it in! As you can see in the pics she really takes up some space in there. ;)

Also the pics are taken with 2 25lbs weights inside the hull. One at the bow and one at stern. And even with 50lbs of weight she still just BARELY breaks the surface. I can see now that using 2 standard 12v car batteries to power everything will still not be nearly enough! With one weight in the middle and one at the bow it pushes the nose under to the correct depth, but the backside sticks up out of the water rather high. ;) Kinda like a sinking ship!

It may be difficult to see in the pics, but the water comes just up to the seam between the bottom and the side panels. And the step in the stern just barely touches the water surface. There is a greatly increasing chance of me including a couple sets of water balast tanks! For that I have decided I will need 4 tanks of some nature in the range of 4 gallons each, 4 separate bilge pumps or something of the like, and a nice "bilge pump switch panel". This way I can operate all 4 independent of one another to get the proper balance. As well as being able to turn all 4 on in reverse to evacuate the water from the tanks when it's time to leave the water. I'm also concidering making an additional switching that operates by float to keep the tanks full or at a predetermined level at all times.

[arrow5]

Ooh, now you`re getting complicated...bilge pumps! just leave a hatch big enough to get a full one gallon plastic bottle through and stack em where you can. `Glass the whole thing as heavy as you can below waterline. Water is just as heavy as..water , so maybe you`ll maybe have to invest in some bags of lead-shot or scrap ball-bearings. You must be able to lift the finished model if water doesnt work , removable weight is needed. Can`t help with electrics, mine is petrol powered, 5hp Mercury.

[secretagentman]

Complicated? nah...I call it fun! :) I'm an electric gadget nutcase! Yeah I will add as much extra glass on the bottom as I am able.

[CG Bob]

You might consider the Sub Tech (http://www.rcboats.com/submarines_only.html) ballast pump and Tee valve assembly for the ballast tanks. Sub Tech has been selling this system for a long time.

[arrow5]

S.A.M. here is a German chap who has done a similar big model in foam. Might be some ideas there. He speaks a little English,goes by the name of DerExcler, lots of pictures of the build on his site www.my-hobbys.com in Gallerien, zun den bildern. Dont know if it was ever finished but worth an email maybe?

[secretagentman]

Wow...that's a nice ship!!

Ok I'm just about to the point of filling gaps, holes..etc with putty and doing the brown paper thing. I was thinking out the process of epoxy/paper and I thought to myself...how on earth do you get the brown paper to do compound curves??? Fiberglass cloth will wrap around easily, but...brown paper??
Any help there would be appreciated...I'm very anxious to get started on the fiberglassing process.

CG- that's an interesting valve system, but I'm not sure it needs to be that complex. :) SubTech does however have some other things I'm interested in using!!

Ok here's where I am now. Lots and lots of sanding/shaping done. Now it's time to fill the gaps!

[secretagentman]

Can anyone here tell me anything about the epoxy resins sold here? http://www.fiberglasswarehouse.com/epoxy_resin.asp

Would any one of them be better suited for my project? Or any of the polyester resins they sell? I'm thinking that's where I'm going to order from for this project.

And the glass cloth I'm thinking of using is style#7725 on this page http://www.fiberglasswarehouse.com/fiberglass_cloth.asp
2/2 twill weave for strength in both directions....would that be a good choice? Or a different weave?

[secretagentman]

Well I have filled all the major holes and such with silicone caulking. This may take a little while to dry, but it won't melt the foam. :) Progress pics tomorrow....

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

The hull looks really good. :cool:

Never used system three epoxys, but any epoxy should be fine over the foam. As always, test on a scrap piece before you start the hull. The 8oz weave you chose should be fine.

Do not use the Polyester resin directly on the foam, it will melt the foam into a globby goo.

[secretagentman]

Thanks! :)
Yeah I figured the poly resin would just melt it. I just hate to spend that much money on an epoxy I know nothing about, but I suppose it should be fine.

[arrow5]

If it is not too late, the brown paper bit ...just slit or tear where you need and small overlaps can be sanded smooth when the glue has dried, add some more glue and smooth with hands on the scuffed bits. You will get a smooth shiny surface which the epoxy will cover well .

[secretagentman]

Nope it's not too late yet. I'm going to have to wait till next week to order that fiberglass cloth and epoxy...so it looks like it will be a little while longer before I can start glassing.

The silicone is nearly dry in the deeper spots, but the thinner areas are dry and I've been sanding them out a little. Just have to wait to get the supplies to glass it. :(

[secretagentman]

Ok I'm about to order some 6 blade props...what do you think? http://www.shipsnthings.com/HTML/propel2.htm I will not be ordering from this site, but take a look and let me know what you think. I'm going to get a set of 2.75" props in LH and RH for $40. Not bad at all for a pair of almost 3" brass props!! And since I'm moving more toward the suggested "fantasy" side with this project I really like the curvy 6 blade props. Kinda makes me want to build a sub just so I can use those props. ;)

Oh and the 4 runners I'll be adding to the bottom of the hull....do you think 2" tall is good?

[secretagentman]

Ok, props and drive shafts on their way!! Should get them by mid next week at latest. Also ordered 12yrds of 38" wide fiberglass cloth. Looks like I'm going to make a drive up to Vandalia, OH to get the West Systems epoxy. Will be cheaper by far than the System3 epoxy I posted about earlier. About $30/qt And I should only need a quart.

I got sidetracked by a couple foamy plane projects and this took the backburner while I decided on fiberglass/epoxy/props/and driveshafts. But things should be underway again soond. :) I also got ahold of something to use for the water ballast pumps. I've been struggling with the $25 cost of setups made for this and I'm like...it's just a stupid little motor and impeller. So the other day it hit me! Electric nitro fuel pumps made by Great Planes. They're only $10 and they are made with double throw switches already. PERFECT! :) So I picked one up and did a quick test. Took about 24-30seconds to fully drain a 2qt container. So I figure it's not super fast, but it's decent. So now to build ballast tanks.....anyone got suggestions?

[Kmot]

Aw man, why didn't you get the 7-blade screws?? :D

http://www.shipsnthings.com/GRAPHICS/7bladeA.jpg

[arrow5]

Not so sure the fuel pumps like running water through them, car windscreen washer motors and pump do OK . 2" runners ? yeah why not , they wont be seen underwater and the will be stiffer and heavier where needed. Beautiful props. cant get them big enough for my ship for static display in UK. How big diameter is available stateside ? More pics please, this is a great inspirational thread.

[wingnut163]

windsheld washer pumps, fish tank tubing, DPDT sw to change the direction of water.Galon milk jugs, tubing to the bottom, silacone tubing in neck. can pump from one to the other. pumps $10.00 jugs 00.00 tubing, ask around, car repair store carries a couple of sizes.
luck
skip

[secretagentman]

km- it's only 1 blade different! ;) But another $15 or something.

arrow- you may have a point about the water in the pump, but idk....still time get my hands on some washer pumps. Hmm....how big do you need? The guy I purchased my props from has up to 5 or maybe 6 inch I think. I will be posting more pics as soon as my internet service is back up. Right now I'm on "borrowed" time. ;) And I really don't want to upload pics via dialup...bleh! I finished adding some bulkheads and boy is this thing sturdy! I put the flight deck on and laid on top of it...no trouble at all!!

wingnut- yeah I have plenty of tubing at the moment and several hundred spare switches of which I'm sure SOMETHING is a DPDT. ;) I thought about milk jugs, but I'm not sure that will be enough weight. I was thinking more in the neighborhood of 3-5 gallons per tank. In either case I will have to put some sort of diffuser inside so the water doesn't slosh around too much when the tanks aren't 100% full.

Just got a line on another supplier for the West System epoxy...looks like it may be cheaper through them...hmm....more updates to come! :)

[reddog69]

I love the large scale of your project. I've been thinking of trying the same thing with a foam super tanker. Maybe a two part hull that bolts together. I was also thinking of using a trolling motor if I find one cheap enough on ebay. Please post more pics as you have them, thanks for the inspiration to build BIG!! Reddog.

[wingnut163]

about a troller motor. good, and all so a starter motor, you know car starter. lot of tourke.
you could baffel the milk jugs. and if you could lay down in it then you could put more than two jugs.
skip

[mrbaseballny]

Looking good:) I can't wait to see it finished and in the water!! Keep us posted

[arrow5]

S.A.M. I havent measured drawings of props, only got pics of real ship in dry-dock with people for scale. All my boat is TLAR (that looks about right). My mate Roger has a (surface only) man-carrying submarine about 15ft long and the troll motor does well in it. Be sure to get a "recreational" battery, deep discharge type as used in motorhomes etc. Dont know if car starter motor would like continuous running. Get broadband, he he.

[secretagentman]

Well internet back up! And yes arrow...it's already broadband! ;) They "claim" it was some splitter in our line, but...I don't trust them...I think it was their own fault! Anyway...

Time for some updates...will take some pics this evening at some point. Hope to get the runners cut tonight out of mahogany. Fiberglass cloth came in today as well as the West Systems epoxy resin! Only $60shipped for a 1qt can of the resin, a .44qt can of slow hardener and the metering pumps! Not too bad. If the weather behaves I'll get to start glassing this week. Next week(tues 2nd) however I will be leaving town and won't be back till the following tuesday, so work will be put off for a while.

I'm also going to start in on the rudders tonight...designing..etc..maybe build depending on what I'm going to make them out of! Maybe the mahogany! ;)

Went to the hobby shop today and purchased some brass tubes, rod, and some ball bearings to make up the rudder control tubes.

Hopefully this project will get done soon! :)

[secretagentman]

Well here's what everyone is looking for! IMAGES! :D

Hardwood runners made! (2) ~2x40"@45degrees, (2) 1.5x44". Made out of mahogany! :) I asked my father in law if he had any scrap wood I could use for the project..he replied "sure those mahogany boards are yours if you want". So there they are. Pretty darn heavy...which is a good thing! I need that keel weight. And man will that strengthen the bottom of the boat!!

Rough cut the rudders as you can see, 3x5" though I may make them a bit shorter....I think 5" may be a bit much...idk. Opinions?

Now you can see the relationship of the 3" props, the runners, and everything else.

REALLY hope to get the glass done before tuesday!

[arrow5]

Well that solves part of the ballasting probs too ! Your rudder area is a suck-it-and-see job bit they must be quite thin. 5", watch the draft for shallow water .Your two bilge-keels (the outer 45o strips) could have been better placed at the "corner" of the hull and I dont think they need to be that deep, its not a yacht. Lucky you with the mahogany. Keep going, it is refreshing to see "I-did-it-my-way efforts". Good luck with the `glassing, lots of disposable gloves and alcohol for clean-up not drinking. Do a little test first, warmish dry day best. Post a head-on view, before attaching keels and runners.

[secretagentman]

No worries on thinning them...I've got a planer for that! ;) Could take'm down to paper with it. Yeah the shallow problem is why I'm rethinking my 5" rudders...maybe 3" would be enough? And cut the width down to 2"..maybe?

LOL...well it's a little late for the "Your two bilge-keels (the outer 45o strips) could have been better placed at the "corner" of the hull and I dont think they need to be that deep" as the runners are already epoxied in place. :p Oh well...I suppose if it works out in a terrible manner I'll just have to build another boat. ;)

Thanks for the "do it my way"...on that note I've decided to not even go near adding those aformentioned...things...on the sides of the carrier and to go with your idea of fantasy carrier!

As for testing I did 1 pump from each can (epoxy and hardener) about 3 hours after they arrived, mixed it up, and spread it on a scrap of foam near 1'square. I used a bit of fiberglass cloth I had purchased previously and it should be fully set by the time I get up in the morning. It didn't take but a few hours for it to become quite hard and give me a good idea of how to work it and how it would harden. Looks VERY promising so far! :D

Can't wait to get started!

Oh and arrow...the guy I purchased my props from says the largest he can get is 5.2" in a 3 or 4 blade. Just so you know my props are made by Raboesch and made in the Netherlands....that's a wee bit closer to you than to me. ;)

[arrow5]

Hmmm, pity about the 45o bilge-keels. Glueing them to foam not best idea. You might have probs with getting f/glass round curves and corners. Anyway press on, cut panels of glass and overlap joints,any slight bulges that appear when cured can be sanded down. This is when patience is needed, the resin will not be cured enough ie rock-hard, for days. Follow instructions to the letter and use protection. Definite health hazard, sand "wet". Keep rudder width just reduce height a bit. You can always add or reduce area after sea-trials. Check www.precisionheli.com for your next project:rolleyes: I know of the prop man in Holland , my last enquiry was to Raedstock in UK but it has now changed hands so might try again for a freebie/special. One suggestion I had at a show last weekend was to try a University naval design dept. who might get students to make them as a project. Might try that.

[secretagentman]

Fiberglassing the flight deck! :)
Interesting for sure! The Hard part was figuring out where all I needed to make cuts to get it to wrap correctly. Otherwise...not too bad.
Though I feel the hull will present a much greater challenge!! ;)

Maybe I'll get to do that tomorrow after work...idk.

Shouldn't have glued them eh? Just for future reference...what would the correct way have been? ;) I'm aware that getting the glass around those curves is gonna be a total pain in the rear! Oh well...live and learn right!

Onward to the rudders while that dries. According to the cans...should be cured in 10-12 hours or so.

I really like the micro heli!! That is awesome! Maybe someday I'll be able to get one.

Back to the boat...er...ship...I go! :D


Oh and that scrap bit I tested with yesterday...that's some seriously hard stuff!! Another coat of epoxy resin and it would be glass smooth.

[secretagentman]

A rudder update!

Don't let the pictures fool you, both rudders are within 1/64" of being symetrical and within 1/64" of being exactly the same! :)

Once the epoxy dries and those rods are secure I'll begin cutting and measuring the brass tube and glue the bearings in place...then measure and cut the rods in the rudders. The only question that remains is how to attach a control horn. I mean..the obvious solutions are not what I'm after! ;) I know I could easily just glue one on...no! I think I'm going to find something I can clamp on...maybe a set screw...idk...something in that realm. The search continues!

[arrow5]

Rudder look good, bit fat but nice shape, round front bottm leading edge so you dont have a snagging problem with flotsam or the bottom of the lake/pond. Did you enquire about colouring for the resin? buit-in colour save a lot of paint later and it is in for life. Also if second coat is slightly different tint you can see missed patches. Meant to say that before epoxying , a light mist of photo-mount adhesive (comes in spray cans from photoshops) will hold the dry glass in position while you do you lay-up of the pre-cut pieces prior to applying the resin. Very thin multiple coats are better than thick ones. See intruction about de-greasing between coats and roughing the surface. Do you think bearing are required in the rudder posts? The brass(?) rods in brass tubes would be adequate,well geased. Bearing balls and races tend to rust even if well maintained. Rudder post clamps in plastic and metal are readily available in YLHS or mail order. The rudder-post should have been at about 1/3rd back from leading edge, not too late to drill a new hole ? Dont rely on glueing them on, same with clamps ! Doesnt take much of a knock to shock the glue joint, however some people look on the as a good servo saver if they do move .The bilge-keels could have been glassed on after the hull bottom was glassed but no matter, when you try to glass the bottom you will see why. Otherwise your doing great...just wish it had been a manned one !!!! How about it RedDog ?

[arrow5]

I love the large scale of your project. I've been thinking of trying the same thing with a foam super tanker. Maybe a two part hull that bolts together. I was also thinking of using a trolling motor if I find one cheap enough on ebay. Please post more pics as you have them, thanks for the inspiration to build BIG!! Reddog.
...and why not Reddog ? Here is more inspiration for you...tankers ARE big. Two part hull, yes , just leave a hole for you legs between the two halves. Have a look at www.warsashcentre.co.uk/c-ship :cool: I just checked that link but it didnt come up for me, so try. www.warsashcentre.co.uk/ManMod01 through02,04,05,06 (no 03)

[secretagentman]

Ok, not a problem...I can easily still modify the rudders.
I like the idea of pre coloring...that would indeed save a lot of paint time later!

I'm not worried about the bearings...they're silicone sealed. They should be water tight.

I do kind of like the idea of the glue being "breakable"...nice "feature" built in. :)

I'll continue working on it when I get home from the job. And now that you've brought the precoloring up I'll go get some paint before I do the second epoxy coat!

[Kmot]

That carrier is awesome. Can't wait to see it with gray paint! :D

[arrow5]

I like the idea of pre coloring...that would indeed save a lot of paint time later!
I'll continue working on it when I get home from the job. And now that you've brought the precoloring up I'll go get some paint before I do the second epoxy coat!
Be sure to get correct colouring substance for epoxy,IT IS NOT PAINT but a colouring agent. Get it from your West Systems agent. A little goes a long way, buy a small amount of white and black , mix them to make light grey for hull and darker grey for deck. Below waterline I just use dull red undercoat exterior oil-based matt or semi-matt household paint . Bearings...water WILL get in ! Load them with silicon grease, your boat trailer yard will give you an egg-cupfull. (take the hull, it gets them excited and maybe more ideas or help will be offered !) Worked for me, got 10 gallons each of grey gloss and grey undercoat from RN Naval Dockyard Rosyth where they refit the real Invincible. Applied with a roller , its as good as the day it was put on ...15 years ago ! :D

[secretagentman]

Well after a week out of town I'm back! :)
Just did a little work on the rudder system and I think it's coming along nicely. I have to work a LOT this coming week...so I don't know when I'll get to glass the hull. 5/32" brass rod, brass tube, 1/8"ID sealed BB and a Dubro wheel collar to lock the rod in position.

List of things to do before water trials:
-glass hull
-color deck/hull and final epoxy coat
-get batteries!!
-build ballast tanks and wire switching system

[Kmot]

Those rudders are beautiful! Too bad you have to paint them...

[secretagentman]

Thanks!! And just why do I have to paint them? ;) They are currently covered in a nice coat of epoxy resin....quite durable and water resistant...no need for paint if you ask me. :)

[arrow5]

Welcome back, waiting with baited breath for next step !

[secretagentman]

Ok, made a call to Skippers Boat Supplies today...they have some fiberglass overcoat coloring for $6.99 for a 1oz tube. They currently have black, white, red, and some other miscellaneous colors. Not sure when I'll get to drive all the way up there to purchse them, but at least I've found some.

Arrow- From what you've said previously about the color I'm going to assume that a 1oz tube of black and white (2oz total) will be more than enough to do the entire ship!?

So hard to decide what project gets my time. I really want to make that giant scale P51 in time for the fly in. I know giant scale warbirds in general are common, but a giant scale FFF electric warbird? To my knowledge that's rather UNcommon! Hans has really shown that FFF can be pushed quite far in size, but now I think it's time to move to style and make something that will fly in a scale manner. Maybe I can work on both...idk. When I set to it I can work quickly on multiple projects so maybe it's doable.

The color is the next step here. If weather is right maybe I can glass the hull over the weekend once I'm off duty at the base. Sand/color the deck while the hull is drying. We'll see what the weather has in store first! :)

[arrow5]

Yep minute amount of colouring agent, try some tests. Add just enough to get the glass resin non translucent. A touch of black to kill the red for undersides. On your big fanfold , see the thread just below yours on a ff Phantom jet fighter, fantastic ! ...see I`m wrong again as the Domestic Director" keeps telling me ! I`m just waiting till the Hydros and flying cars, and now a "Rocketman" get sorted for bigger sizes and glo power. Long may we all have dreams !

[wingnut163]

Ahoy S.A.M.
weekend once I'm off duty at the base>
base?? Navy?? im retired navy. MR2
skip

[secretagentman]

wingnut- nope...AirForce :)

arrow- looks like my trip to Skippers will have to wait till monday. :(
mmm....F4 Phantom...that is actually one of my near future projects! :) Maybe I should do a giant scale FFF of it?! ;)

[wingnut163]

Ahoy S.A.M.
ok a land bird farmer that makes floating bird farms. thats nice. keep up the nice work, and please post the sea trials.
skip

[arrow5]

FFFantom then ? I Like it. My mate has a stack of foam-board just waiting for use, strip the paper off and you have 5mm Depron, keep the paper on and it is almost fanfold. 8ftX4ft, no folds or creases or perforations, virgin white. Get the bird farm done first, it must be grey by now ? Wingnut...jildy him up, your closer. ;)

[wingnut163]

Ahoy Arrow
sure will, i'll keep him in his chocks.
sure hope this flyboy don't have his pilots glasses on, that will tint the gray for sure.
BTW have you seen the highlander around your place?
skip

[arrow5]

"THE" Highlander wings ? I`m surrounded by them ! Get the salt coursing through your veins again check out page 6 in the Gallery of www.warshipmodelsunderway.com Start building your OWN navy. (another biggie on page 13, in Maine USA) :cool:

[wingnut163]

Ahoy Arrow
have seen that one, tis nice to be able to do one like that. working on the crockett X 2.
the lindy fletcher RCed, and a few wating to be done.
the highlander i was asking about is the immortal, (the movie). Aye, the salt is running fine. was born with it there. lived on the water all my young life, then went it to the navy. lived on a house boat in NY long island sound.
skip

[arrow5]

Ahoy Skip , Aye ah ken fine whit Highlander ye meant... We all think he is jist a wee bit pansified. Ask any Glasgow man :rolleyes: You did notice the name of my RO5 model ..Invincible !? Better than immortal, who wants to live forever !

[wingnut163]

Arrow,
aye better invincible than living forever.
now you say, Glasgow man is it, i would agree than, Pansified is a nice way to put it. but then you know how hollywood is.

[Kmot]

What language are you guys speaking? :p

[TheAeronut]

No kidding!!! Is there a translater that will give us a fair english translation?? Google translate?? Bablefish??

:D

J.P.

[secretagentman]

lol....that be a sea fairin' language lads! :D

And no I haven't forgotten about my carrier...only delayed a bit. Hoping to make it up to the shop this weekend or by monday of next to get the coloring. As time draws near to the deadline of the giant P51 and more and more problems present themselves (that happens with scratch building in the R&D process) I am about to stop trying for the big show and just complete it at my leisure. Which I would then put more time back into the carrier and have her done in a week or so. :)

[arrow5]

What language are you guys speaking? :p
Just a little banter in pseudo Scots, the legend has it that so many Scots either were in shipbuilding (on the River Clyde) or went to sea that you could go onto any ship in any port in the world and shout " Hey Jock !" and somebody would reply "Whit dae ye want?" (what do you want) or "What izzit?". Alas very little shipbuilding on the Clyde now. :( S.A.M. Glad you are getting back to the big grey one, any progress pics ?

[wingnut163]

S.A.M. when you rush, well the germans had this, <the hurryer i go the behinder i get>.
better to work at a pace you feel best at. every time i ruah i've had to do it over again.

KOMT/AERO we were just having a bit of fun. lucky i'm part irish and scot + a bunch more or i would have been lost toooo.
as for a translater none woud do well.
skip

[Kmot]

OK, I understand you now. ;)

[secretagentman]

arrow- indeed...last night I glued the deck mounting blocks (nothing special, just a couple blocks of foam that will contain magnets to hold the deck onto the hull) in place. I'll get pics of that at some point soon.

wingnut- lol..yeah I know the feeling of rushing TOO quickly and ending up in a mess! But sometimes I do my best work when I'm in a pinch. We'll see how this ones goes! ;)

[arrow5]

Kmot: "ask a Glasgow man" , Glasgow was/is considered to be a tough city, so much so that in some countries sign language "Glasgow" is indicated by a clenched fist smacking the other open hand. Bet it was an Englishman that thought that one up !