Savage gearboxes

[Dre]

Hi all, I took the gearbox in my savage apart last night to install the new
reverse module I got the other day. I was pleasantly surprised to find
metal gears in there, very nice. The thing that worried me though was it
was completely dry! no grease anywhere!

Are there any reasons why I cant lightly grease the metal gears?? I know
there is a plastic one in there, but that'll come out very soon as I am
installing a 3 speed (hopefully this w/e, as long as it arrives in time :)

Also this box is a little tighter than I am used to, will this free up over
time? it hasn't seem very much use at all (less than a tank full)

Thanks all!

Cheers Dre

[kenji]

In article <42ba04d0$1@patrick.nettas.net>, "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com>
wrote:

> Are there any reasons why I cant lightly grease the metal gears??

hpiracing.com and their FAQ's and forums will explain why.

Good sight to bookmark.

Tons of info there.

[Dre]

"kenji" <kenji@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:kenji-74B762.20285422062005@news.ftupet.com...
> In article <42ba04d0$1@patrick.nettas.net>, "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Are there any reasons why I cant lightly grease the metal gears??
>
> hpiracing.com and their FAQ's and forums will explain why.
>
> Good sight to bookmark.
>
> Tons of info there.

Good point, I haven't been there for ages.

Cheers Dre

[Dre]

"Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:42ba230b@patrick.nettas.net...
> "kenji" <kenji@ripco.com> wrote in message
> news:kenji-74B762.20285422062005@news.ftupet.com...
> > In article <42ba04d0$1@patrick.nettas.net>, "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Are there any reasons why I cant lightly grease the metal gears??
> >
> > hpiracing.com and their FAQ's and forums will explain why.
> >
> > Good sight to bookmark.
> >
> > Tons of info there.
>
> Good point, I haven't been there for ages.
>
> Cheers Dre
>
>

Righto, the FAQ's state that its designed to run without. But they say that
only becuase they are worried about grease getting into the 2 speed. "we
have not noticed any wear on the metal gears in all our testing" Hmmmm,
wonder how long they tested one for :)

Anyway, does the gearbox loosen up after a bit of time? I do I need to dive
in again and check for binding...

Cheers Dre

[\Doc\]

"Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:42ba04d0$1@patrick.nettas.net...
> Hi all, I took the gearbox in my savage apart last night to install the
> new
> reverse module I got the other day. I was pleasantly surprised to find
> metal gears in there, very nice. The thing that worried me though was it
> was completely dry! no grease anywhere!
>
> Are there any reasons why I cant lightly grease the metal gears?? I know
> there is a plastic one in there, but that'll come out very soon as I am
> installing a 3 speed (hopefully this w/e, as long as it arrives in time :)
>
> Also this box is a little tighter than I am used to, will this free up
> over
> time? it hasn't seem very much use at all (less than a tank full)
>
> Thanks all!
>
> Cheers Dre

Dre,

They are meant to be run dry. It's a fairly low-stress environment and the
gears are all on the same plane (not like a bevel gear set). I just popped
my three speed in the other day and had already run a gallon thru the two
speed. I drive it HARD and there were no signs of wear at all. The three
speed ROCKS! I had a helluva time with the clutches as mine weren't set
correctly from the factory resulting in second gear only. The guy I spoke
with at HPI gave me the wrong advice and I spent about 6 disassemblies
trying to find first gear. Long story...............

You need to take the tranny apart to get at the 1-2 clutch so be damned sure
it's correct before you assemble it! Gear ratio, tire size, engine tuning
and engine size all affect clutch adjustment, but for a bone stock S-25
equipped Savage, 3/4 turn in from flush on the 1-2 and 3 turns in from flush
with threads on the 2-3 are factory settings and are decent. As it stands
right now, my 1-2 is 3/4 in from flush and my 2-3 is 2.5 turns in from flush
with threads.

I also installed the reverse module and a high-torque steering servo (moving
the SF2 to throttle/brake which made a world of difference with throttle
response and brake power). The truck will now wheelie on command!

Doc

[Dre]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:x9mdnf8DR4cUTiffRVn-gA@adelphia.com...
>
> "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:42ba04d0$1@patrick.nettas.net...
> > Hi all, I took the gearbox in my savage apart last night to install the
> > new
> > reverse module I got the other day. I was pleasantly surprised to find
> > metal gears in there, very nice. The thing that worried me though was
it
> > was completely dry! no grease anywhere!
> >
> > Are there any reasons why I cant lightly grease the metal gears?? I
know
> > there is a plastic one in there, but that'll come out very soon as I am
> > installing a 3 speed (hopefully this w/e, as long as it arrives in time
:)
> >
> > Also this box is a little tighter than I am used to, will this free up
> > over
> > time? it hasn't seem very much use at all (less than a tank full)
> >
> > Thanks all!
> >
> > Cheers Dre
>
> Dre,
>
> They are meant to be run dry. It's a fairly low-stress environment and
the
> gears are all on the same plane (not like a bevel gear set). I just
popped
> my three speed in the other day and had already run a gallon thru the two
> speed. I drive it HARD and there were no signs of wear at all. The three
> speed ROCKS! I had a helluva time with the clutches as mine weren't set
> correctly from the factory resulting in second gear only. The guy I spoke
> with at HPI gave me the wrong advice and I spent about 6 disassemblies
> trying to find first gear. Long story...............
>
> You need to take the tranny apart to get at the 1-2 clutch so be damned
sure
> it's correct before you assemble it! Gear ratio, tire size, engine tuning
> and engine size all affect clutch adjustment, but for a bone stock S-25
> equipped Savage, 3/4 turn in from flush on the 1-2 and 3 turns in from
flush
> with threads on the 2-3 are factory settings and are decent. As it stands
> right now, my 1-2 is 3/4 in from flush and my 2-3 is 2.5 turns in from
flush
> with threads.
>
> I also installed the reverse module and a high-torque steering servo
(moving
> the SF2 to throttle/brake which made a world of difference with throttle
> response and brake power). The truck will now wheelie on command!
>
> Doc
>
Wicked, thanks for the info. My gearbox is still in bits on the bench so
I'll double check the shift points. I was actually wondering how to adjust
the shift point for one of the gears (you cant use the other hole that the
rubber plug sits in then?)

The 3 speed arrived last night too, but I only had time to build the main
shaft with the clutches. Its a really nice bit of kit too, the gears are
beautiful :)

Anyway, I'll get it all back together this w/e and see, looking forward to
lack of traction on the fronts due to them being in the air :)

Cheers Dre

[\Doc\]

Inline...............

"Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:42bb42ab$1@patrick.nettas.net...

> Wicked, thanks for the info. My gearbox is still in bits on the bench so
> I'll double check the shift points. I was actually wondering how to
> adjust
> the shift point for one of the gears (you cant use the other hole that the
> rubber plug sits in then?)

Nope, I don't even know why the hell that hole is there.

> The 3 speed arrived last night too, but I only had time to build the main
> shaft with the clutches. Its a really nice bit of kit too, the gears are
> beautiful :)

Ok, if you've assembled the main shaft you'll see exactly what I'm talking
about. 3rd gear has a notch in it thru which the 2-3 clutch adjuster is
acceessible thru the hole in the gearbox case. It's a huge PITA trying to
get the adjuster nut aligned with the slot once it's all together, but
dooable, just be patient. You'll note that 1-2 clutch sits inside 1st gear
with 2nd gear right up against 1st, elinimating all access to it. You
actually have to partially disassemble the main shaft to get at it. Check
the adjustment before you slap it all together and don't end up like I did!

> Anyway, I'll get it all back together this w/e and see, looking forward to
> lack of traction on the fronts due to them being in the air :)

I have a 1/4 mile driveway and was making high-speed runs yesterday,
finalizing adjustments to the tranny and carb (needed to be readjusted with
new gearing and high-flow air filter). From the bottom of my driveway
(concrete), dead stop, when I mash it it'll bring the fronts up about 6-8"
off the ground and keep em' there until it hits second gear (about 20mph).
Off road in grass and dirt, it'll flip itself upside down if I mash it from
a dead stop. Tres cool! Seems to be running a bit cooler as well.

Doc

[Dre]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:r8Gdnb7phuL1zSbfRVn-sw@adelphia.com...
> Inline...............
>
> "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:42bb42ab$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>
> > Wicked, thanks for the info. My gearbox is still in bits on the bench
so
> > I'll double check the shift points. I was actually wondering how to
> > adjust
> > the shift point for one of the gears (you cant use the other hole that
the
> > rubber plug sits in then?)
>
> Nope, I don't even know why the hell that hole is there.

I think its there purely to hold the rubber bit in there, but was hoping
(yeah right) that by freak chance they may have doubled it up as the other
shift point adjuster. Doh!

> > The 3 speed arrived last night too, but I only had time to build the
main
> > shaft with the clutches. Its a really nice bit of kit too, the gears
are
> > beautiful :)
>
> Ok, if you've assembled the main shaft you'll see exactly what I'm talking
> about. 3rd gear has a notch in it thru which the 2-3 clutch adjuster is
> acceessible thru the hole in the gearbox case. It's a huge PITA trying to
> get the adjuster nut aligned with the slot once it's all together, but
> dooable, just be patient. You'll note that 1-2 clutch sits inside 1st
gear
> with 2nd gear right up against 1st, elinimating all access to it. You
> actually have to partially disassemble the main shaft to get at it. Check
> the adjustment before you slap it all together and don't end up like I
did!

Roger that, will do. Thanks for the heads up :)

> > Anyway, I'll get it all back together this w/e and see, looking forward
to
> > lack of traction on the fronts due to them being in the air :)
>
> I have a 1/4 mile driveway and was making high-speed runs yesterday,
> finalizing adjustments to the tranny and carb (needed to be readjusted
with
> new gearing and high-flow air filter). From the bottom of my driveway
> (concrete), dead stop, when I mash it it'll bring the fronts up about 6-8"
> off the ground and keep em' there until it hits second gear (about 20mph).
> Off road in grass and dirt, it'll flip itself upside down if I mash it
from
> a dead stop. Tres cool! Seems to be running a bit cooler as well.
>
> Doc
>

Right now this bit is the bit that made be jump off my chair with
excitment!!! (plus your a lucky lucky LUCKY bastard to have a 1/4 mile
driveway, TOO COOL! :)

Wheelies till it hits 2nd, AWESOME!! Thats waaaaaay more than I was
expecting, but I guess the 10% difference in the 1st gearing would play a
big part in that, glad I picked up the 3 speed the other day. <evil grin>

What kind of engine do you run in your Savage? I'm still dicing up whether
to get the .26 picco or the K46 from HPI. But by the sounds of it, it wont
really matter which one I get :)

Thanks for the post, I really enjoyed that!

Cheers Dre

[\Doc\]

"Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:42bb6a10$1@patrick.nettas.net...

> Right now this bit is the bit that made be jump off my chair with
> excitment!!! (plus your a lucky lucky LUCKY bastard to have a 1/4 mile
> driveway, TOO COOL! :)

Tell me that the next time we get 2' of snow and I'm out there
plowing/shoveling in sub-zero temps! You're right though, it gives me a
great runway to really open the truck up. I'm on slightly over an acre of
land so between the driveway and grass I have a great track right at home.

> Wheelies till it hits 2nd, AWESOME!! Thats waaaaaay more than I was
> expecting, but I guess the 10% difference in the 1st gearing would play a
> big part in that, glad I picked up the 3 speed the other day. <evil grin>

Here's another secret (actually two). High-torque servo for throttle/brake
(SF2 will do just fine @ 90oz) and a nice, rich idle. The rich idle allows
the crankcase to load up a bit so when the high-torque servo opens it up in
0.20 seconds there's enough fuel in the crankcase to get her screaming off
the line. If you use a regular idle setting, there isn't enough fuel in the
crankcase to get her to really hook up off the line as the quick throttle
opening and lack of exhaust pressure in fuel tank will create a bit of a
hesitation. This gets more pronounced as the tank hits 1/4 and below. I'm
3/8 turn richer on idle right now from stock settings.

> What kind of engine do you run in your Savage? I'm still dicing up
> whether
> to get the .26 picco or the K46 from HPI. But by the sounds of it, it
> wont
> really matter which one I get :)

Stock S-25 (2.5HP) with an HPI high-flow air cleaner (same as Motor Saver
but with 60* elbow instead of 90* elbow). The K4.6 would be absolutely WILD
in this thing the way it's geared right now. Whatever you get, make sure
it's rotostart equipped as it beats the hell out of a pull start or starter
box. I've seen a few brand new S-25's on E-Bay selling for under $100, and
HPI has a trade-in program, so if the S25 doesn't do it you can always lean
it till' it pukes then grab a K4.6.

> Thanks for the post, I really enjoyed that!

I can't wait till you get that beastie built. If you've never driven a
Savage before you're gunna have a huge grin for a few days after driving it.
Wicked truck.

Doc

[DanTXD]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:p6ednYKpf9PTDybfRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
>
> "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:42bb6a10$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>
>> Right now this bit is the bit that made be jump off my chair with
>> excitment!!! (plus your a lucky lucky LUCKY bastard to have a 1/4 mile
>> driveway, TOO COOL! :)
>
> Tell me that the next time we get 2' of snow and I'm out there
> plowing/shoveling in sub-zero temps! You're right though, it gives me a
> great runway to really open the truck up. I'm on slightly over an acre of
> land so between the driveway and grass I have a great track right at home.
>
>> Wheelies till it hits 2nd, AWESOME!! Thats waaaaaay more than I was
>> expecting, but I guess the 10% difference in the 1st gearing would play a
>> big part in that, glad I picked up the 3 speed the other day. <evil
>> grin>
>
> Here's another secret (actually two). High-torque servo for
> throttle/brake (SF2 will do just fine @ 90oz) and a nice, rich idle. The
> rich idle allows the crankcase to load up a bit so when the high-torque
> servo opens it up in 0.20 seconds there's enough fuel in the crankcase to
> get her screaming off the line. If you use a regular idle setting, there
> isn't enough fuel in the crankcase to get her to really hook up off the
> line as the quick throttle opening and lack of exhaust pressure in fuel
> tank will create a bit of a hesitation. This gets more pronounced as the
> tank hits 1/4 and below. I'm 3/8 turn richer on idle right now from stock
> settings.
>
>> What kind of engine do you run in your Savage? I'm still dicing up
>> whether
>> to get the .26 picco or the K46 from HPI. But by the sounds of it, it
>> wont
>> really matter which one I get :)
>
> Stock S-25 (2.5HP) with an HPI high-flow air cleaner (same as Motor Saver
> but with 60* elbow instead of 90* elbow). The K4.6 would be absolutely
> WILD in this thing the way it's geared right now. Whatever you get, make
> sure it's rotostart equipped as it beats the hell out of a pull start or
> starter box. I've seen a few brand new S-25's on E-Bay selling for under
> $100, and HPI has a trade-in program, so if the S25 doesn't do it you can
> always lean it till' it pukes then grab a K4.6.
>
>> Thanks for the post, I really enjoyed that!
>
> I can't wait till you get that beastie built. If you've never driven a
> Savage before you're gunna have a huge grin for a few days after driving
> it. Wicked truck.
>
> Doc

I agree, its so much fun :D Especially with the 4.6 in it. I love the
durability of my Sav as well, the way it just comes back for more, over and
over again :)

Considering starting a twin .28 project, just for fun over the summer :)

--
Dan

[Dre]

""Doc"" <nospam@noway.com> wrote in message
news:p6ednYKpf9PTDybfRVn-ig@adelphia.com...
>
> "Dre" <blah@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:42bb6a10$1@patrick.nettas.net...
>
> > Right now this bit is the bit that made be jump off my chair with
> > excitment!!! (plus your a lucky lucky LUCKY bastard to have a 1/4 mile
> > driveway, TOO COOL! :)
>
> Tell me that the next time we get 2' of snow and I'm out there
> plowing/shoveling in sub-zero temps! You're right though, it gives me a
> great runway to really open the truck up. I'm on slightly over an acre of
> land so between the driveway and grass I have a great track right at home.

Hehehehe, fair enough too, I live in Australia so I dont have to worry about
snow :)

> > Wheelies till it hits 2nd, AWESOME!! Thats waaaaaay more than I was
> > expecting, but I guess the 10% difference in the 1st gearing would play
a
> > big part in that, glad I picked up the 3 speed the other day. <evil
grin>
>
> Here's another secret (actually two). High-torque servo for
throttle/brake
> (SF2 will do just fine @ 90oz) and a nice, rich idle. The rich idle
allows
> the crankcase to load up a bit so when the high-torque servo opens it up
in
> 0.20 seconds there's enough fuel in the crankcase to get her screaming off
> the line. If you use a regular idle setting, there isn't enough fuel in
the
> crankcase to get her to really hook up off the line as the quick throttle
> opening and lack of exhaust pressure in fuel tank will create a bit of a
> hesitation. This gets more pronounced as the tank hits 1/4 and below.
I'm
> 3/8 turn richer on idle right now from stock settings.

Noted, I have 3 Ko-propo servo's (2143's I think, but prolly wrong) in
there, all hell strong (prolly overkill, but hey, they were the only ones I
had)

> > What kind of engine do you run in your Savage? I'm still dicing up
> > whether
> > to get the .26 picco or the K46 from HPI. But by the sounds of it, it
> > wont
> > really matter which one I get :)
>
> Stock S-25 (2.5HP) with an HPI high-flow air cleaner (same as Motor Saver
> but with 60* elbow instead of 90* elbow). The K4.6 would be absolutely
WILD
> in this thing the way it's geared right now. Whatever you get, make sure
> it's rotostart equipped as it beats the hell out of a pull start or
starter
> box. I've seen a few brand new S-25's on E-Bay selling for under $100,
and
> HPI has a trade-in program, so if the S25 doesn't do it you can always
lean
> it till' it pukes then grab a K4.6.
>
> > Thanks for the post, I really enjoyed that!
>
> I can't wait till you get that beastie built. If you've never driven a
> Savage before you're gunna have a huge grin for a few days after driving
it.
> Wicked truck.
>
> Doc

Right, well I've gone and done it now, I've put in an order for a K46 :)
I'll put the rotostart on it for sure cause I hate pull starts. I'm even
going to to the extreme to try and get the rotostart to work with my old
T-maxx, the easy start in that thing is stuffed and takes bloody 10 minutes
to start the thing (one way and shaft are worn out).

Once the engine arrives and the last of the bits from tower, I only have to
get a new fuel tank, a couple of axles and a couple of other small bits that
escape me atm and I'm ready to wreak havoc with my new Savage :) (and my
mates can fight over the T-maxx, which I'll then use as a mobil road block,
hehehehe)

Cheers Dre