Lets Build the Alfa F-86! [Archive]

Micronics

Jun 15, 2005, 10:41 AM

Hi guys!

I open this tread to those who are interested to have and to build the F-86 of the alfa models.I am now building this bird and I did some modifications.
Hope others out there will chime in for their build and specially contribute what modifications you made to help one another to creat this beautiful warbird.Contribute also your power setup and specailly post some picture of the on going buil and finish bird.

Thanks

This are some pictures to get some idea to others who dont have it yet.

1 pair of wings (still not one piece but acceptable)
3 pieces of trust tube.

MarcusT

Jun 15, 2005, 02:40 PM

Keep the photos coming! For those of us still waiting for our backordered '86's to arrive, we can enjoy your shots of what we can only dream about for now.

staud

Jun 16, 2005, 07:46 AM

Ciao micronics lo sto facendo anch'io ho quasi finito mi trovi su baronerosso.net (staudacher300)

excuse me for the language mine is almost ready for maiden i'll keep yuo posted.

Heiner Skroblin

Jun 16, 2005, 09:08 AM

ok,

I don't know what motor goes in first ......

I fried almost 3 of the MPJet 25/25-26 MK2, I have the LEHNER 1020-14 and the LEHNER 1020-12, and the Himax with 5300 rev/V.

The LEHNERs are doing very well in the MIG-15 and Huckebein.

Now I think I will give a chance to the Himax .... but I can change easily the edf at the field .....

Heiner

POl99

Jun 16, 2005, 09:44 AM

in Belgium we put the MEGA 16/7/4 into the MIG-15. do nice job ! 14 Amp at static run.

Heiner Skroblin

Jun 16, 2005, 09:50 AM

The LEHNER 1020-12 is drawing 22A from KOKAM 2050 3s1p!

Much better than cruising at 14Amps .......

Heiner

killerstick

Jun 16, 2005, 02:12 PM

This building thread should start to fill up soon, Hobby Lobby has the F-86 in stock now!

rcguy01

Jun 16, 2005, 02:24 PM

Heiner, KV-wise comparision in US

The LEHNER 1020-14 (4286KV) vs. Mega 16/7/4 (4420KV)
The LEHNER 1020-12 (5000KV) Vs. Mega 16/7/3 (5580KV)
very close match :-)
Anybody tried?

rcguy01

Jun 16, 2005, 02:29 PM

The LEHNER 1020-12 is drawing 22A from KOKAM 2050 3s1p!

Much better than cruising at 14Amps .......

Heiner

Can that alfa fan survive 220 watts with that 1020-12?
I think the vasa -55 might be better for high power option.

Joe Elston

Jun 16, 2005, 05:13 PM

Hi Guy's, does anyone know if the Thunder Power 3S 2100
and 3S 1900 packs will fit into the Alfa F86?
Is The Brushless motor that Hobby Lobby recommends a good all around motor? I was thinking the Himax 2025-4200 or the Hacker B20-18L or even a 12L? I am going to use a Phoenix 35 ESC with whichever motor I pick.
Thanks Guys and I will shoot pics and keep reading this thread.
Thanks Joe

Micronics

Jun 16, 2005, 07:26 PM

Hi guys,

Here is my setup..

Motor-Himax 2025 5300
Esc- Coolrunning 25 amp
Battery- Kokam 1250 (20C)

Im pulling 19 amps and 480 grams of trust busrt and stable in 455 grams with this setup.
Hers my proof:

Allen

Micronics

Jun 16, 2005, 07:38 PM

I made a little modification on the fuse.I reinforce its side with very thin ply (.4mm)very light (7 grams) I weight it before I install it so I know my weight penalty with it.I also put a triangle stock on both sides of the fuse to reinforce the ply where the screw holds the wings cause it might break at that point.

Allen

Heiner Skroblin

Jun 17, 2005, 01:38 AM

The LEHNER 1020-12 delivers 580g thrust at 3s1p.
LEHNER's motor rev are the rev mesured with full load. Most other motor builders mesured their rev without load! That's a big difference.

Heiner

staud

Jun 17, 2005, 08:08 AM

Micronics

Jun 17, 2005, 10:39 AM

Staud,

whats your setup and whats your AUW.Maybe we can meet some time and fly together with my Mig-15.

Allen

Micronics

Jun 17, 2005, 10:53 AM

Heiner,

How I wish I can put a LEHNER motor on mine,the problem is,it cost too much,not like the himax motors.Acceptable price and very impressive power AND! do not draw too much amps that you can fly maybe 10 to 12mins in a kokam1250 (20C) 3s1p. and with this light battery your plane would be light.The lighter the better.Too much wing loading and too much power may have a bad effect on the model.For example on the Mig-15,hope you know on the wing seperating problem.Another one is my freinds P-47 (alfa models)he tore apart its wing even though it is screwed on the fuse,it broke inside the fuse where the ply support the nut of the screw.It may happen the same way for the F-86 that why I made a triangle support on the ply of the wing support and along the side of the fuse.Hope this will hold this kind of MOD.

Allen

Micronics

Jun 17, 2005, 11:05 AM

Andy Steere

Jun 17, 2005, 11:13 AM

Motor-Himax 2025 5300
Esc- Coolrunning 25 amp
Battery- Kokam 1250 (20C)
Do you have this same setup in your Mig? If so, how did you get it to balance? With a lighter motor than yours (park370/5400), I had to go to a bigger battery on my mig before it would balance. If this is a new setup for the F86, have you balanced it yet?

Joe Elston

Jun 17, 2005, 04:43 PM

Joe Elston,

I measured the tickness of my battery its 25mm.Its a Kokam 1250 3s1p and fits perfectly on the tray,it touches a little bit the canopy.Measure your battery of how thick it is so you can know if it will fit.If more than 25mm you will have a problem putting it in.I suggest to put the Hacker B20 - 12L.I saw fly this setup, and it very good performer and youll have unlimited vertical with it just be light with your battery.They use kokam 1500 3s1p.

Allen

Hi Allen, thank you for the answer to my question but can you let me know if your measuring the thickness of the pack or the width(from side to side of the pack flat?) If so I shouldnt have any problems with my Thunder Power 3S 2100 and 3S 1900 packs but I am going to get two Kokam 3S 2000 for the jet they are rated at 30amps continuous.
That should handle the motor and I will install a Phoenix 35 so I should have plenty of ESC Headroom even with the Hacker B20-12L unless anyone can suggest a better motor?
Thanks Again Allen.
Joe

TipStalled

Jun 17, 2005, 04:59 PM

:) Finished building already. went together pretty quick.

I have one concern and maybe it is for nothing. I am using the Himaxx 2025-5300 on this bird. The adapter for the fan unit was a slip on/glue on deal. I have statically tested and it appears it should hold up...for now.
Has anyone drilled out the rotor to accept a 2 mm prop adapter ?

I should know soon if the glued rotor holds together.

Micronics

Jun 17, 2005, 06:46 PM

Andy Steere,

No its not the same setup on my Mig,it has 2015-5400 much more lighter and didnt have trouble balancing it.F-86 is not yet balance with this new motor (2025-5300) but Im sure I will not have trouble balancing it cause it has much room for the battery rather than the mig,I think I can move it far forward.

Look:

Allen

Micronics

Jun 17, 2005, 06:53 PM

Tipstalled,

I didnt use the aluminum plug instead I use the prop adapter that came along with the motor and drilled the rotor to accept it.Dont worry if you inlarge a little the hole cause when you flush it trough it always be centered cause its perfectly fit with the rotor.My first one came a little bit big but I grit it with sandpaper while running the motor untill it fits.

Allen

TipStalled

Jun 17, 2005, 07:53 PM

:D Thanks Micronics ! I didn't want to drill the rotor out and then discover I would need to order the rotor .......I have a reamer and will use it to step out the rotor on both sides. Thanks again for the info. :)

Joe Elston

Jun 17, 2005, 08:08 PM

Guy's, what do you think about the brushless motor that Hobby Lobby and I am sure its the one they have in the jet in their video, http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless_mpjet.htm its an MPJet and seems like a good value because the plane in the video goes pretty well. Can anyone tell me what size the fan is in the plane? And if it can be replaced with a Vasa 55? But the fan and motor in the video work well so I may buy that motor and try it out. Incase I am not happy with the motor or fan I will cut the fuselage like I did with my Kyosho T-33 and will on Kyosho F16
Thanks Joe

TipStalled

Jun 17, 2005, 11:15 PM

Joe Elston

Jun 17, 2005, 11:40 PM

:o Evidently the slip/on glue on works great. In attempting to get the stock rotor adapter off , after having epoxied it on , the shaft broke on my brand new Himaxx 2025-5300. :(

In my brilliant mind I thought that if I pressed it further on the shaft it would break the epoxy loose and voila.....expensive lesson !!

A few more days and more of my favorite sheckels later I shall have a replacement himaxx..

Tipstalled, the shaft on your Himax broke when you where trying to remove the rotor that you epoxied on? That really sucks big time, I cant believe that shaft was that brittle? I am going to ream out the rotor and use a collet type adapter. I just need to see if I have a 2mm collet in my shop if not I will order one tomorrow when I order the Jet. Its too bad that the MP Jet brushless motor is so easy to smoke Or I would buy one the price is good? Since I have only 3S packs and one 4 S 2100 I am thinking about a Himax 2025-4200 I have two 2015-3600's in GWS EDF55's for my A10 I am working on now. Or I might get a B20-12L

Can anyone tell me if a Vasa 55 will fit in the Jet is the stock fan a 55mm fan or close because I think it would fly great with B20-12L and Vasa 55? I already have the fan to try it out,
Thanks Much I will order tomorrow and probably get it later in the week?
Thanks Guys
Joe

TipStalled

Jun 17, 2005, 11:55 PM

:) I don't know it it was brittle or maybe just the vise was not quite square. I was making sure I supported the shaft on one side while pressing the adapter , seemed like a great idea.. a vise is just so much less money than a press... ;)
I had removed the 5300 from my Mini Funtana and was going to replace that with another....looks like I shall be running behind now.. :rolleyes:

Did the math with the 2 cell setups....I'd rather wait !!

Hoping to fly tomorrow with a New plane...now I will fly with 1 less plane...at least I will fly !! :p

hhhmmmm...my Corsair has a 2025-4100 in it....I could......1 new plane , 2 less planes.....it's getting late....time for me to go !!

Chris Nicastro

Jun 18, 2005, 12:07 AM

Joe Elston

Jun 18, 2005, 01:00 AM

@ Joe E.

I have the Mini AC 12/15/12 and they recommend this motor for performance on the Mig. I also have the MPJet 25/25/26 MkII but I dont want to use it. I bought the Mig just the other week and havnt installed it but thats what I'm going with. That motor will power a 65mm fan so it will scream in this smaller one. I have a Vassa 55 I can test fit it in if you want to know, the kits still in the box.

Chris
Hi Chris, thanks the Mini AC's are good motors I have a couple but not a 12. I could order an AC 12/15/12 for my Sabre also. Which adapter did you use an aluminum collet like I want to use. Will the motor fit in the fan with the larger heat sink type case? I am also thinking about the B20-12L also I am not sure which to go with why dont you want to use the MP Jet motor? I will use the CC Phoenix 35 since I happen to have one and I will use my 3S 2100 and 1900 Thunder Power packs.
Thank You Joe

That would be great if you could check and see if the Vasa 55 will fit in the F86 please?

Ed Waldrep

Jun 18, 2005, 02:03 AM

I fried not one, but two Mini AC 12/15/16s in my Wattage Mig with wattage fan on 10 x Kan 950 nimh two summers ago. It pulled about 17 amps. Temp after a run was once measured at 178 degrees. The winding wires broke loose from the rear endbell connectors. I soldered them back but the motors would never run again, just bobble. I thought it was just a mechanical failure at first so ran the other motor I had, and it failed the same way. Not sure if it demagged or was a mechanical failure both times but I didn't buy another. I now run a Himax 2025 5300 in the Wemotec Microfan at 22 amps, 235 watts on 3S lipo and it's held up fine (can't say the same for the lipos though!) The himaxx weighs more that the Mini ACs do and the extra mass helps I think.

Joe Elston

Jun 18, 2005, 02:28 AM

Chris Nicastro

Jun 18, 2005, 04:22 AM

Hi Chris, thanks the Mini AC's are good motors I have a couple but not a 12. I could order an AC 12/15/12 for my Sabre also. Which adapter did you use an aluminum collet like I want to use. Will the motor fit in the fan with the larger heat sink type case? I am also thinking about the B20-12L also I am not sure which to go with why dont you want to use the MP Jet motor? I will use the CC Phoenix 35 since I happen to have one and I will use my 3S 2100 and 1900 Thunder Power packs.
Thank You Joe

That would be great if you could check and see if the Vasa 55 will fit in the F86 please?

The fan collet might be a good idea, the stock adapter is 2mm and the AC shaft is 2.3mm. The motor just drops in and the bolt pattern is ok. The stock fan is just about 60mm dia. and 61+mm outside the carbon shroud. The tip clearence is very tight though. I think the Vassa could work if you really wanted to make the mods to do it but the stock unit is very well designed for where it needs to be and what it does. There is a thread somewhere, a guy made an adapter ring for the Vassa and a tube from paper.
The outer dia. of the lip on the Vassa is 66mm, just barely covering the thickness of the depron duct walls. I dont think its worth the effort, guys are blowing these jets apart with the stock fans and lots of motor.
I have a CC35 also and will most likely use it unless the amps are low enough for a 25. I dont know what this motor will do yet. I have the same batt. packs too. I wanst impressed with the MPJet motor I guess. I ran it in a gearbox for an Alfa P-51 for a bit. I can try it but I think the AC is better suited for the job. I have to get started on this plane very soon!!

Chris

staud

Jun 18, 2005, 05:40 AM

The LEHNER 1020-12 is drawing 22A from KOKAM 2050 3s1p!

Much better than cruising at 14Amps .......

Heiner

cruising?
here you can see the mega 16/7/4 setup
mega setup (http://www.electricfly.it/filmati/Mig%2015%20alfa%20ali%20campestri.wmv)
it's the end of maiden flight.
Due to the large section this motor have plenty of torque
and at 14 amp you can save weight using cheap battery :)

Ed Waldrep

Jun 18, 2005, 12:00 PM

Ed, wow I was going to buy the 1215/16 tomorrow with the F86! I dont think I want to abuse my lipos with a 5300
K/V Motor I am suprised you havent smoked a pack yet?
I think I may go with a Himax 2025-4200 or the Hacker B20-12L is a good choice at 4620/KV so that I can use my 3S Lipo packs.
Thanks Ed.
Joe

I don't know how the Alfa fan compares to others off of the top of my head. I do know that it's 60 mm diameter so it'd in between the Wemo microfan and the Vasa 65, but with only 3 blades I don't know what it draws amp wise. The mini AC may be fine in an Alfa, it may be less draw than a wattage fan but I haven't researched that. Yes, 5300 is kinda high, I'd like to know what the Himax 20205 4200 pulls in the Alfa fan on 3S lipo.

greg1261

Jun 18, 2005, 03:51 PM

cruising?
here you can see the mega 16/7/4 setup

I think for heiner is all what is not able to start vetical cruising ;-)

Joe Elston

Jun 18, 2005, 05:29 PM

Thanks Guy's for the information on the fans and motors.
Chris, I am going to try the AC 12/15/12 in the stock fan and I will use a 2.3mm collet I have a couple of new ones laying around that I never used that where for speed 400 planes that I installed brushless motors in so I will dig one up from my parts bin ;) I will order the F86 and motor from Hobby Lobby on Monday and I have plenty of batteries I even have some 10 Cell Hecell packs to try!
Thanks Joe

Andy Steere

Jun 18, 2005, 07:48 PM

... it has much room for the battery rather than the mig,I think I can move it far forward.
Thanks for the pic! Yes, lots of room to move the pack around in there.

Joe Elston

Jun 18, 2005, 08:09 PM

Joe Elston,

I measured the tickness of my battery its 25mm.Its a Kokam 1250 3s1p and fits perfectly on the tray,it touches a little bit the canopy.Measure your battery of how thick it is so you can know if it will fit.If more than 25mm you will have a problem putting it in.I suggest to put the Hacker B20 - 12L.I saw fly this setup, and it very good performer and youll have unlimited vertical with it just be light with your battery.They use kokam 1500 3s1p.

Allen

Hi Allen, thank you for measuring your batteries and your plane for me both sizes of 3S TP packs the 1900 and the 2100 are at 20mm thick. The 3S 1900 is 20mm thick 45mm wide and 69mm long and weighs 130 grams.
The 3S 2100 is 20mm thick and 34mm wide and 98mm long and weighs 145 grams. Hopefully they are not too wide to fit in the fuselage? Your battery tray is that one you made yourself or does it come with the kit? If its no stock I will copy your idea if you dont mind ;)
Thanks Again Joe

TipStalled

Jun 18, 2005, 11:24 PM

:) Can someone give me the amp draw on the stock fan unit running a Himaxx 2025-5300 ? I have the TP-2100 3s1p running this with a CC Ph25 and I hope this works. Thanks !! :D

Synwpn

Jun 19, 2005, 05:29 AM

on my MIG15, the 2025-5300 drew anywhere from 20 to 23 amps. i used a tanic 1500 pack in it.

TipStalled

Jun 19, 2005, 06:49 AM

:D Thanks synwpn. Looks like I am "in range" with the electronics...now I need to find a way to get some airflow over the esc. ;)

staud

Jun 19, 2005, 09:45 AM

:) :) :cool: Maidened !!
The results?
Rock steady, fast, manouverable, easy to fly .
More stable and agile than the mig, a little bit (just a little) less speed and power due to the intake (bigger in the mig) easy to manage in a perfect low speed landing. tip stall? absolutely no.
Mine was 465 grams auw (glassed front fuse)and i think that we can fit a himax2025/5400 and a 2100 battery pack to reach stratosferic performance with no problem for the extra weight, but the mega/tanic setup is nearly perfect for this bird, the right thrust/weight/money ratio.
hi from an happy Staud. (really happy)

Micronics

Jun 19, 2005, 07:21 PM

Hi joe,

the battery tray came along with the kit and I think it has room for large batteries. Even if its to long or too wide but not too thick cause more than 25mm of thickness will touch the canopy and its hard to close it and its ugly when your canopy is not totally fit.

Allen

Micronics

Jun 19, 2005, 07:23 PM

staud,

Auguri! per il tuo collaudo.

Congratulation Staud!Nice work.Mine not yet finish (no time).hope too maiden mine soon.

Allen

TipStalled

Jun 19, 2005, 08:07 PM

:) Put all the decals on last night , Mig Mad Marine , makes a world of difference in the appearance. Almost to nice to fly...
With shaking hands and knocking knees I gently tossed the bird into the wind..a small shallow dive..a little up and more throttle....she starts to climb...then starts to ROCKET...gotta get used to the throttle curve on EDF's (my first)....back off throttle ...trim her out...didn't need much :)
After flying around for a minute or so decided to punch it , plus I just like the sound :D from level flight she wants to climb at full throttle , nice !
After most of the jitters had been vanquished I started some Cuban-8's and Immelmanns. The first rolls were very axial and then they started to become more like barrel rolls...hmmm....on the downward sides of the Cuban-8's I started to hear the dreaded flutter of control surfaces. Quickly chopped throttle and brought her in...I need more practice landings :rolleyes:
Came in hot but the tall grass saved her from any damage. Inspection revealed the right aileron connection had come undone. :eek:
Other than the aileron connection coming undone , a very nice and successful maiden. Some quick info...Himaxx 2025-5300 , TP-2100 3s1p ,Auw 17.8 ounces...I thinks I maight have a new favorite plane. :D

williamciv

Jun 19, 2005, 08:59 PM

Mg MiG had the same problem with the wire slipping off the control horn. I thought, "geez, this thing rolls funny" and once I found out what had happened was amazed how well it flew with just one aileron.

Electricman

Jun 19, 2005, 09:00 PM

How long are the flight times with you the 2100's?

TipStalled

Jun 19, 2005, 10:07 PM

Didn't really get a chance to max out the flight time due to the aileron problem...and darkness was approaching.
I flew for probably 4 or 5 minutes and battery , esc were barely warm. :)

staud

Jun 20, 2005, 04:49 AM

staud,

Auguri! per il tuo collaudo.

Congratulation Staud!Nice work.Mine not yet finish (no time).hope too maiden mine soon.

Allen

Thanks dont be afraid with maiden, a little toss et voilà ciao

like2fly!

Jun 20, 2005, 05:54 AM

with an mp jet 25/25/26 mk2, i want to use nimhs. i was thinking 8 or 9 750's ( 2/3AA 14g each)
would 8 or 9 be better?

staud

Jun 20, 2005, 06:39 AM

with an mp jet 25/25/26 mk2, i want to use nimhs. i was thinking 8 or 9 750's ( 2/3AA 14g each)
would 8 or 9 be better?

i think 9 is better the mpjet 4200 kv requires voltage

aplphabandaid

Jun 20, 2005, 04:21 PM

What servos do yo all like for the Mig/F86. I use Hitec 55 in my mig, but wonder if htey couldnt be a bit more higher torque. The control surfaces on my F86 in the box feel pretty tight.

Chris Nicastro

Jun 22, 2005, 11:45 PM

The HS 56 HG is the next choice for a little bit more torque. Speed is slightly slower than 55's.

Joe Elston

Jun 23, 2005, 12:06 AM

I was planning to use the new Hitec HS-56MG as CofG says they have more torque and they have a ball bearing as well. I am going to try and build my K&A F86 thats been on the shelf for the last two years. I will just use water base paint on it and I bought a good painting mask. All I need to really worry about is the primer but I will wear my mask and of course gloves so it should work.
I will post a couple of pics.
Joe

Jackspt28

Jun 23, 2005, 02:02 AM

Joe , how is the Jepe F-16?, I love mine, flies great. I got the F-86 too and almost have it done. I have had 3 migs and just retired one ,to put the gear in a F-86.These Alpha planes are great! I also have the Alpha Focke Wulf and it is faster than my Mig and my Mig has a fast set up in it Himax 2025-5300 on 3s Apogee 2480 cells. Good luck with yours. Jack.

netmechanic

Jun 23, 2005, 03:23 AM

i think 9 is better the mpjet 4200 kv requires voltage
If you just go with a TP1320 11.1 V you'll get an easy 7 min outta it and longer if you keep your foot outta it. I doubt 9 cells will get it. Someone referenced the Vasa fan above, you can mount a Vasa 55 in these Alfa Models with no modifications. Just pop the mounting flange off from the stock alfa fan, it comes right off, The Vasa fan is flared on the intake and you just slide the ring down over the back end of the Vasa, and screw it down to the forward bulkhead, it will be like a compression ring then you can glue the ring to the fan once you get it lined up. A good motor setup for these jets with the Vasa 55 is an RZ2500, you'll get an easy 225 watts on a 3 cell lipo.

Electricman

Jun 23, 2005, 03:42 PM

I have been getting 10 min flights on my F-86. I can probably get a few more minutes too. At about the 5 min mark, I putt around and float in the sky to cool things off then go at it again. Im at 1/2 to 2/3rds throttle most of the flight. Batteries are only slightly warm when it finally comes down. I also cut the rear tail cone for cooling along with some holes drilled into motor "tomb"
TP gen 2 2100's
Eflite Park 370-5400

Micronics

Jun 23, 2005, 06:56 PM

Hi guys,

For all who didnt see the way "Andy Steere" made the mods for the alfa fan well here it is again... (Special thanks to Andy Steere for helping us here for the modification)

Doug Bateman

Jun 23, 2005, 07:33 PM

Hello gents, i'm new to electrics, have flown many i/c ducted fans , working on a small [Wren 44] turbine powered A-4. I realized very quickly that electric power was going to save ducted fan technology from a slow death. Let me ask you this, I have the F-86 Alfa jet. I bought the MP jet motor 25/25-26 but have held off installing after I saw the Mig with a Himax in it. Man this thing was screamin!!!!. I want to use the Himax HA 2015-5400. It has basically the same specs as the MP but is smaller in diameter [20mm] which will help in cooling and it turns 1300 more rpm per volt which in fan terms can't be bad. Why are you guys using the 2025-5300 at more weight and pulls alot more current with required upgrade in batt and esc. Will the 2015 work?

Joe Elston

Jun 23, 2005, 07:44 PM

Joe , how is the Jepe F-16?, I love mine, flies great. I got the F-86 too and almost have it done. I have had 3 migs and just retired one ,to put the gear in a F-86. 3s Good luck with yours. Jack.

Jack, I haven't finished the Jepe F16 I haven't been able to build for the last 3 years or do much flying because of health issues. I do have everything I need to build.
And I am going to start my K&A F86 this weekend. I am working on my Kyosho F16.
Joe

Micronics

Jun 23, 2005, 08:30 PM

Doug Bateman,

I have the 2015 on my Mig and it really rocks,very satisfied on its speed, can do very large loops and can also do vertical flight not endless but it can.Now I the 2025 on my F-86.Reason? Well need more power,let say endless vertical.Even it is 15 grams much heavier than 2015 it doesnt matter cause youll have 180 to 200 grams more trust.Im very satisfied how my mig perform with the 2015 just wanna try something else.

Allen

Skyking213

Jun 26, 2005, 09:46 PM

Hey there Micronics,
Did you get a chance to maiden the Sabre yet?
I am just starting the assembly of mine and have both the 2015 and 2025 setups, just wanted to hear some more positive results from the big motor install!
Ciao!
ScottB

Jackspt28

Jun 26, 2005, 11:16 PM

Just maidened mine today, Himax 2025/5300, on a 3 cell Apogee 2480 Lipoly, same set up that was in my previous 3 Migs. Verdict , its slow,doesn't have the same performance as the mig,with all the same equipment.The ductwork is small, and the Mig handles much nicer ,like its on rails.I would say the F-86 is 10-15 mph slower than the Mig. Overall , I am not impressed.On the positive side the F-86 builds much easier than the Mig, and it looks great.I think I will sell it ,and get another Mig.Jack.

Micronics

Jun 27, 2005, 07:10 PM

Ciao ScottB,

Yes I just maiden my F-86 and as Jackspt28 said... Its much slower than the Mig but flies fine for me.In landing there no problem,glides like the mig,roll is much faster and flies great like the Mig.

Allen

Red 61

Jun 28, 2005, 10:52 AM

Hey! For some of us newbies, slower is better! :D

TipStalled

Jun 28, 2005, 05:49 PM

How do you guys route your antennae ?

I have my reciever at the front of the balsa tray. The antennae exits the fuse near the front and I have it taped to the side of the fuse to stop it from flopping around..looks like a small black stripe down the side. If you read ALFA's warning about its metal based paint acting as a shield , then this would seem to be dangerous as now I have 2 surfaces with paint blocking the path from my transmitter to reciever ant. if the plane is turned the right (wrong ?) way. But anywhere you put the antennae the possibility is that 2 surfaces will be between the tx and antennae...what to do ?
I have kept it close for now and only a couple of times in a dozen flight have I seemed to experience a glitch..the last flight being the worst as I was LONG and LOW with the rx antennae OPPOSITE me. The best position I can think of is exiting the bottom of the fuse , but I want to see how the rest of you guys do your antennae. Thanks ! :)

williamciv

Jun 28, 2005, 05:59 PM

Doug Bateman

Jun 28, 2005, 06:34 PM

I was dissapointed to hear about the performance of the Sabre. I have'nt started building yet so I am going to trade the kit in on a Mig in my local shop. I have a Himax 2025/5300 on the way figuring I would be looking at similar speed to the Mig which I have seen fly and is impressive. It's a shame as the F-86 is a much nicer looking craft IMO.

TipStalled

Jun 28, 2005, 06:34 PM

Skyking213

Jun 28, 2005, 07:27 PM

As far as I can tell......
The paint on the Sabre is the same as they have on the Marie version of the Alfa P51D, I am using a Berg Sticky Antenna (http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=1405) applied on the inside of the tailcone or rear of the fuselage.
I have had nothing but great luck with this little stick on antenna in the Marie!
Great range! NO Glitches at all! Using Berg 4 DSP (http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=39&products_id=993) !
I will use same on my Sabre! I'll let you know! Will be at the Summer Fest 2005 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=373874) July 9th and 10th and will maiden the Thursday before that!

williamciv

Jun 28, 2005, 08:51 PM

williamciv.
Thanks for your input. No problems with glitching ? In reading your post, I had a BFO (Blinding Flash of the Obvious) :D The ONLY way not to have 2 surfaces between the tx and rx antennae is to route it like you have yours..right down the middle of the fuse. The instructions indicate that because of the "metal based paint" you should not run the antennae thru the fuse but outside...but that seems contadictary when you consider that if you run it on the outside you will always have the possibility of 2 surfaces between the tx and rx antennae...hmmmm.....Anyone else care to chime in on thoughts and/or ant. locations ? Thanks ! :)

No, I don't think I have had any problems with glitching, but now that you mention it...

I ran the atennae down on top of the tail cone of my MiG and never had any problems, and on the '86 it's now more or less on the outside completely, so I don't think I am experiencing any glitches.

helo pilot

Jun 28, 2005, 09:07 PM

I am still building, but here is my set up. . .

This leaves me with about 2 feet of wire hanging out of the plane. . .

lowpass

Jun 28, 2005, 10:40 PM

I have a Deans Antenna in my Alpha Models P-51 and Ki-84 and have never had any problems. I have used them on a lot of my models over the years. I plan to use a Deans on my F-86 also.

nxtdoor

Jun 28, 2005, 11:01 PM

I decided to install separate aileron servos out at the ailerons. Using HS-55's. The extra weight is negligible. I didn't like the single servo in my Mig. May put a rudder servo in it if flys well. Using HS-56 on elevator.

I also not putting that heavy ply plate in the fuse. Will use a couple of sticks where needed to stiffen and support elevator servo. I just velcro the receiver to the intake tube. Also will put a few Uni carbon strips on the fuse side like my Mig. Worked like a charm and added a few grams only.

helo pilot

Jun 28, 2005, 11:13 PM

Send us some pics of the dual servo's please. I have been wondering if I would be able to put 2 in the hole for the servos, back to back and use a 'Y' connector. That way I have twice the torque.

helo pilot

Jun 29, 2005, 04:09 AM

It's 3am. I'm done. Maybe will maiden Thursday am.

TipStalled

Jun 29, 2005, 09:28 AM

:) Thanks for all the ant. inputs. Sound like ALFA maybe worried more than it should be about its metal based paints.

helopilot let us know how she flies as far as the glitching goes...I like the way you have run yours and that is the way I had planned on it until I read the ALFA warning. Thanks again !! :D

Pilot44

Jun 29, 2005, 01:27 PM

Helo,

Your Sabre looks good to go. Good luck,

I did this (pictured) to smooth out the rear exhaust ducting. Just some thin plastic sheeting. Its not taped in as of yet. You can vary the size of the exhaust outlet, and may be able to deflect downward some thrust, by bending the rear of the insert. It just slips in between the fuse and ducting. I thought there might be turbulence just under the horizontal stab as it was stock...

The paint thing, I flew my Alfa Mig15 with a light antenna internally, using an FMA M5 receiver, had good range out to 100 yards. Any further out, these models get real small anyway.... No problems to date with glitching... Thats not to say that I just have been lucky so far. I might route the antanna in the F86 externally somewhere, as for some reason (Metallic pigment in the paint) its mentioned and might have been an issue at some point over in the Czech Republic when the Alfa guys R&D' this jet.

Jim

helo pilot

Jun 29, 2005, 06:06 PM

Does it help, though? Can you actually notice a difference?

P-51C

Jun 29, 2005, 09:43 PM

hmmm...metal based paints? I wonder if they're a health hazard in California? :rolleyes:

TipStalled

Jun 29, 2005, 11:19 PM

:)
The guvment of California will eventually figure out that "Life is the major cause of death" and will ban everything :rolleyes: ....or at least put a warning that certain components have proven to be carcinogens !! :eek:

Joe Elston

Jun 30, 2005, 12:20 AM

hmmm...metal based paints? I wonder if they're a health hazard in California? :rolleyes:

Nope the paint is probably okay since its a waterbase :rolleyes:
Joe

TipStalled

Jun 30, 2005, 08:26 AM

:D Government...paint.....back on track :p

My F-86 is 17.8 ounces AUW. It lands like.......REALLY fast :eek: , no matter how far I take her out and try to bleed off speed. That , in itself would lend one to believe the c.g. is to far forward. However she also "climbs"at full throttle and I have to give it a lot of down to make a low level pass from altitude , which would seem to indicate c.g. to far back. So with this conflicting info I am stumped. :confused:
As far as my finger balancing goes it is right where Alfa suggests. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I run my speed controller with brake off , maybe brake on would help on the landing ? Thanks !! :D

Red 61

Jun 30, 2005, 09:33 AM

My F-86 is 17.8 ounces AUW. It lands like.......REALLY fast :eek: , no matter how far I take her out and try to bleed off speed. That , in itself would lend one to believe the c.g. is to far forward. However she also "climbs"at full throttle and I have to give it a lot of down to make a low level pass from altitude , which would seem to indicate c.g. to far back.
Is this true of ALL Alfa F-86 Sabres?

Does the Alfa Mig have the same characteristics?

One of the things I really don't like about my GWS Zero is that it climbs like crazy on any sort of power, and I must push the stick forward to fly level. It seems there's a wing incidence problem which causes this on the GWS Zero -- maybe there's a wing incidence problem on the Alfa F-86?

Sheesh, one of the reasons I wanted to buy an Alfa was to get rid of this need to push forward on the stick to fly level. I figured Alfa would design their aircraft a little better than GWS... :(

FlinVR

Jun 30, 2005, 10:00 AM

My Alfa F86 did not act like that at all.
I was able to trim it out for level flight at anynormal flying speed.

It's landing speed was about the same as the other Alfa planes. Not all that fast at all.

helo pilot

Jun 30, 2005, 11:26 AM

Has anyone left the wings fences off? Let's hear from the peanut gallery . . . .

TipStalled

Jun 30, 2005, 12:00 PM

Red 61 here is a great website for GWS planes and in particular the wing incidence problem on the Zero..http://www.gws-fans.com/..

Flinvr , what is the total weight of your flying setup..I believe mine at almost 18 ounces is heavier that most and may contribute to its "hot" landing characteristic. :)

Helo pilot...mine are on....I've always wanted to be part of the peanut gallery...my wish has come true ! :D

Thanks to all !! :)

Tom Rouch

Jun 30, 2005, 12:22 PM

Hey Flin, How's the handling on the Saber? Do you have it set-up fast on the ailerons? We should go flying this weekend and I get up the Mig and compare.

helo pilot

Jun 30, 2005, 12:32 PM

What do you mean by " set-up fast " ?

tusk91

Jun 30, 2005, 01:24 PM

Getting the new Alpha F-86 thanks again, Jackspt28. The setup I think I will go with will be based on making it as light as possible so that I can have good climb performances and really slow her down for landings.

My setup

option(1):

Himax 2015-5400
Thunder Power 1320mAh 11.1V
Phoenix 25 ESC

or maybe go with more power

Option(2)
Himax 2025-5300
Thunder Power 2100mAh 11.1V
Phoenix 25 ESC

I figure with setup (1) I can have some pretty good performance but, slow her down so as to be very gently on the landings. Setup (2) well can try and lower weight in other ways and hav the extra Watts of power.

__________________________________

Brushless F-27 Stryker, Brushless EDF Kamdax Mig-15, Brushless Aerostar(trying to sell)

williamciv

Jun 30, 2005, 04:48 PM

Having flown with the stock Hobby Lobby setup and now the TP 3s1s Himax 5300 set up, weight makes all the difference in those hot landings. Only once with the heavier setup have I managed a slower landing. No big deal, just need a lot of field to land on. Doesn't settle to earth as well as the MiG but you can't have it all. It's still very manaegable. With the stock setup it was even less of an issue.

I have not had the problem with it climbing with full throttle. Very well trimmed at high and slow speeds. I have noticed with the larger battery that loops need alot more height to prevent those pull-up-as-hard-as-you-can-to-avoid-the-ground moments.

TipStalled

Jun 30, 2005, 08:12 PM

:rolleyes: I have just the opposite problem...I am pushing down as HARD as I can to keep it in a dive...the LEAST little release of pressure and she pops up like a cork...only at speed though. Half throttle to 3/4 I can fly inverted ...at full throttle inverted is a race to terra firma in the upside down position...no amount of down will get you out of it !! :eek:
I may play with wing incidence on this...I just can't believe that our planes with the same setup are so different :confused:
Well , if it was easy "anybody" could do this , right !! ? ;)

helo pilot

Jun 30, 2005, 11:22 PM

Well, I finally did it, and it flew GREAT! I noticed that it has the same tail' waggle that my Corsair has. I was all nerves, but she really made it easy for me.

MP Jet 25 25/26
Jeti 18 Advance
Kokam 3c 1500

I'll get the amps/watts/ weight specs up later. . .

Yahoo ! ! ! !

I tried to post a video, I hope it goes through. If it does, I need to apologize beforehand for the video. . .

The video is posted in 'my gallery', as soon as I figure out how to attach it here, I will.

Pilot44

Jun 30, 2005, 11:42 PM

Slowing down these jets for landing within 1/4 mile of landing area... :o

Get a DPDT switch, wire it between the ESC and the motor so any of the two motor wires can be reversed, hook a servo up to operate it. When you want to land, shut the motor off, throw the switch, light the motor up again, wella, reverse thrust...... ;) :eek:

Jim

helo pilot

Jul 01, 2005, 09:51 AM

O, BTW, I flew mine without the fences, and she flew great! I will install them after another flight to see if they help. I will try to do this in back to back flights. I will also try to get soem more video this weekend, by someone who can operate the camera a little better.

Blue skies to everyone, John, aka Helo Pilot ! ! ! !

TipStalled

Jul 01, 2005, 10:32 AM

I'm waiting for someone to put in the fuse airbrake like on the real-ones :cool:

I guess you could use 2 aileron servos , use mixing and get some flaperons.....I likes the airbrake idea though .. :D

Joe Elston

Jul 01, 2005, 01:58 PM

I'm waiting for someone to put in the fuse airbrake like on the real-ones :cool:

I guess you could use 2 aileron servos , use mixing and get some flaperons.....I likes the airbrake idea though .. :D

Tipstalled, I am starting to build a Jet Hangar F86( I am building the Naval version a Fury) that will have both flaps and speed brakes :D Of course its a slimer but its a DF! :D I just hope I have a field to fly it at when its finished, flying fields are becomming scarce in So Cal for all types of RC aircraft especially for jets :(
Joe

TipStalled

Jul 01, 2005, 04:00 PM

Airbrakes , yeah!! :)

Slimer , boo... :eek:

Just kidding , to each his or her own ! :D

Never flown a "slimer" and really have no desire . I have had my fill of "slimers" in the r/c car arena. I like my nice CLEAN electric planes..no clean up afterwards , no dirt to blow off , no motors to clean (brushless :p ) more relaxing.

Good luck on your fields and keep us posted. I just gotta see the airbrakes :D

Doug Bateman

Jul 02, 2005, 12:08 PM

You guys that are using the prop adapter instead of the "bogus" hub and glue set up, are you machining the adapter to fit inside the rotor? The one I got with the Himax 2025 is to big in diameter to fit into the rotor.I can't believe that something as fundamental as the fan/rotor / motor installation is designed to be hit or miss. I took great care in assembling mine and still have about .004" angular and eccentric runout. Are all the mini fans like this? no wonder guys are getting different performance out of comparable set ups. The problem stems from the fact that there is a plus or minus .002" clearance between the motor shaft and the fan mounting hub. Anybody with me on this?

Pilot44

Jul 02, 2005, 12:31 PM

Doug,

Absolutely correct there mate. I think Alfa would have made a better choice to start off with a hole in the hub that is 2mm in diameter, giving a drill to size option. Poor judgement on that component if ya ask me. Would be a lot less hassle. I'm going to shoot them off an email in this regard. Others should follow suit. Maybe they will do something about this problem. I mean its so fundamental, that not having started with the smallest hole to accommodate the smaller shafts is scary.

I'm going to give the the prop adaptor thing a shot and see how fast I can destroy everything.... :rolleyes:
Jim