F-16 Build Thread

[Thomas Nelson]

This is a build thread for my EDF depron F-16 Falcon. I’ll show exactly how I made my own bird, and will share the plans a little later so you can make one too. I’ve attached a few pictures showing the bird as it looks today. But if you were following my original thread you won’t notice anything new. Same story goes for this video, (http://www.parkjets.com/TN-F-16-Rocky-Mtn-high.wmv) this video (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/videos/F-16%20June%2007%20v2.wmv), this video (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showatt.php?attachmentid=1051805), this video (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/videos/Movie_0002.wmv), this video, (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/videos/F-16%20Dec%2027%20small.wmv) and this even older video. (http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/500/12102F-16.wmv) I wish I could show some ROG video, but every attempt to film has been kyboshed by the wind, rain or both.

Update: Here (http://www.parkjets.com/tn-f16-Falcon.html) is the link to the plans. And here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1036167)is a link to an alternate graphic for the exhaust nozzle.

[Thomas Nelson]

Here are the stats:

Scale silhouette with scale-like flight envelope
Easily hand launched with over 220 watts per pound on tap
Thrust-to-weight ratio exceeds one as a belly-flopper, but just under with retracts.
24” wingspan, 36” long
AUW is 20.5 ounces & up depending on pack used.
DS-30 or Minifan 480 Ducted Fan
Thunderpower 2100mah Prolites Lithium Polymer cells (20.5 ounces AUW)
Mega 16-15-2 Brushless Motor
Castle Creations Phoenix 45 Speed Controller (stock timing, no brake)
Berg receiver
Taileron controls (elevon subroutine) with two HS-55 Servos

Optional:
Wattage Retracts - one HS-85 servo for all three units (25-27 ounces AUW)
Nose gear steering with one HS-55 Servo

[Thomas Nelson]

There is a little twist to this thread, however, in that Ralph A. D'Amelio (aka DAF) will actually be building his bird along with me as I describe the steps. I anticipate he’ll be chiming in from time to time, offering additional pictures, suggestions as well as asking questions that will be representative of what others will need to know. You know, stuff that I might gloss over because I’m not thinking about how others might interpret my posts. I hope this approach proves useful!

[Thomas Nelson]

A couple of other things before I begin:

This is a very easy to fix airplane. And it is a relatively easy to fly airplane. But it is NOT a tough airplane. Please be sure your flying skills – and especially your landing skills - are up to the challenge if you plan to build it.

You’ll need a computer radio since elevon (or V-tail) mixing is required.
Here’s a partial listing of construction materials you’ll need:
A couple of sheets of ¼” and 1/8” depron. Or a couple/three of sheets of fanfold foam
Adhesives including 3M77 Spray (foam safe stuff), Probond Polyurethane glue, Foam Safe CA, Foam Safe Accelerator.
Various kinds of knives, Exacto, box cutter style, etc. The kind with the break-away blades are good, since if your blade is dull your cuts will be ragged.
Some brass tubing, including telescoping sizes.
12 or more Tiny Neodym magnets (Mine are 1/8” diameter x 1/8” long from Lee Valley Hardware)
Sanding blocks, from 60 grit to (say) 200. I also like sponge blocks and 1”dowels wrapped in sandpaper.
24” of 1/8” Carbon Rod for the spar.
All the usual clevises, servo output arms & pushrod material (I use Carbon rod)

You should be comfortable with the idea of scratch building your own plane. Truth be told, even among scratch builds this one is a little weird since you’ll be heat-forming foam. However, if you’ve built one of Jetset44’s birds you’re well on your way to knowing what to expect with mine. But if all you’ve ever built to date are balsa ARF’s, you may want to reconsider starting down the “foam path” with THIS bird. There will definitely be steps where I am assuming the builder’s previous experience will fill in some gaps.

Not sure how to say the next part, but I feel the need to try: this thread is mostly about the airframe, as well as the templates & techniques to build it. The propulsion system was simply a combo I saw others were using to good effect and shamelessly incorporated into my bird. And I am far from qualified to suggest how to install retracts – this is my first ever bird with ‘em. So please understand if I offer vague answers to questions like: “I want to use what I have lying around. I have motor X, battery Y and Z number of servos … will I still have T/W>1, and will it fry my cells or ESC?” The fact is, I’m not comfortable offering suggestions on motor/fan/cell combos that I haven’t tried. And the combo I’m recommending for this plane is Dynamite. Bottom Line: maybe think about asking such questions in threads that are exploring those topics … this is an F-16 build thread. I hope I’m not coming across the wrong way … but I’ve seen many a good thread evolve into nitpicking debates that had little to do with the original theme. I’m really hoping this “build thread” can serve as the sole instruction set for all who might want to give this bird a try.

[Thomas Nelson]

I strongly recommend buying a plastic model of the F-16. 1/72 scale is good. I bought a Thunderbirds F-16 for around 15 bux, complete with decals, so I had a GREAT frame of reference.

You should also download THIS (http://airwar.ru/other/draw/f16.html) file from airwar.ru. It is a 3 view of the F-16, and will help you with the placement of the canopy, ventral fins, rudder etc. I personally recommend blowing it up to full size and placing it on the wall, but this is not strictly necessary.
Finally, have Kinkos print out the plans for you, or tape the tiled version together. (I know – these files are coming!!)

[Thomas Nelson]

Note that each piece is numbered. The number refers to the order in which you’ll be making that piece. Please consider cutting the pieces out as you need them, rather than cutting them in advance - reason being there are “grain” considerations, as well as “film” issues (with fanfold, that is) that I’ll be discussing when appropriate.

Again; hold tight for the plans. These are just snippits of a WIP. The final version will be released toward the end of this thread. We all owe many thanks to Mr Boogie for converting my crappy scans into first rate plans. And Esprit440 for contributing the nozzle graphic, which will be part of a decal set I'll share later.

PS - hey Tom ... notice the fonts are all "hollow"! :D
PPS - the white space on page 2 will have the landing gear bending template and positioning layout - once I get 'em to Mr B!

[Thomas Nelson]

A really easy way to transfer plans to depron is to cut the out the plan and v e r y LIGHTLY mist the back with 3M77. Stick it down, cut the depron & immediately peel the plan off. If you use too much 3M77, you’ll ruin the finish of the depron, or worse. :)

[Thomas Nelson]

The reason I’m suggesting the canopy as the starting point is because it is both easy and hard. :rolleyes: ‘Hard’ owing to its numerous curves, and yet ‘easy’ because it can be spackled and painted if the “as-finished” shape leaves something to be desired. And if your first attempt crashes and burns, then you haven’t wasted all that much depron. In any event, this part introduces those who are unfamiliar with “forming” foam to this whole process.

Here’s what you need to do:

Before you cut the piece from 1/8" thick depron, first determine the “grain” of the depron. With a little bending of the foam, you will easily be able to feel that depron “likes” to bend in one direction more than the other. Not sure if it's technically correct to link this property with the term "grain", but that's what I plan to call it from this point forward. With this part, you need to orientate the grain such that it accommodates the rolled “bubble” shape of the canopy. Once you’ve established the orientation of the grain, cut out the canopy.

Next, fill your sink with HOT water, put on some thick rubber gloves, immerse the part and roll it into a tube-like shape. You may find it useful to roll the piece around a (say) 1” dowel, although this is not strictly necessary with this part. (Later on in the build, however, you will definitely want to have some “tools” having a diameter of approximately 1” for the forming process. Something like a shower rod or clothes closet hangar rod).

Basically, the process involves manually forming the piece with your fingers under hot water, then removing it to cool for 10 seconds or so. Once satisfied that the piece is sufficiently round, apply foam-safe CA and close each of the slits. I just hold each slit closed until it cures … no need for tape. At this point you'll have noted that if you cut each slit at a slight angle you will have an easier time closing them.

When completed, you’ll want to paint the canopy flat black (or whatever color you like for your canopy), or perhaps you’ll want to spackle it first. Kinda depends on how well your forming process turned out.

[Thomas Nelson]

Next up is the inlet duct. Here's the basic idea:

1. Choose your foam. My preference for this is fanfold, since it is cheaper than depron. The duct will ultimately be made of a composite material, either fiberglass or carbon cloth or Kevlar (or whatever) so part #2 is really only a plug, and will be totally destroyed in creating the composite part. Hence this is called the "lost mold" technique, and is why I'd recommend the cheaper fanfold.

2. Once you have chosen your material, determine which way it likes to bend. You want the grain to allow this part - essentially a big rectangle - to easily form into a long skinny tube. Now cut out your part.

3. At this point, you want to remove the film (assuming fanfold) from what will become the inside of the tube. Do not remove the film from the outside of the tube.

4. Now fill your tub with HOT water, put on thick rubber gloves and roll the rectangle into a tube. Precision is nice, but not necessary. Be patient with the forming process, go in stages. If you rush the outer film will split, and the foam may crack. I like to take the the steel hangar tube in my closet (about 1" diameter and 3' long) and use it as a sort of mandrel (am I using the term correctly?) around which I bend the foam. I push the tube down (underwater) against the foam and pull the edge of the foam sheet up and around the mandrel with my fingers. You'll need to form it somewhat tighter than your ultimate goal, 'cause the foam will relax a bit after you remove it from the water.

5. Once reasonably round, and reasonably close to the diameter needed, remove it from the water and let it dry.

6. Use Probond and glue the joint closed. I wet one side of the foam with my finger, apply the glue to the other, and tape the joint closed. I like to use fiber tape for this since it does not stretch. I find I can achieve a VERY tight joint this way. Also, the tape prevents the Probond from expanding to the exposed side ... all the foaming action stays on the inside.

7. Don't worry if the finished part doesn't look perfect. Being a plug, you can shape it & fix it with spackle later on. However, this is all good practice since you'll be forming the upper fuse shell in much the same fashion a little later. You'll want a nice joint in that very visible part.

Don't remove the film just yet. There's more to do.

[Thomas Nelson]

Next form part 3 - the thrust tube - the same way. Note that the OD of both the duct and thrust tube match the ID of the Minifan.

Remove the film from the OD when the Probond has cured.

[Thomas Nelson]

Now go back to the inlet duct. You need to form it into the shape pictured below.

Each of these pictures shows two ducts. The unfinished (blue) duct is obviously more "banana-like" than the finished (fiberglas) duct. This is because the unfinished duct is designed to bend around retracts. If retracts are not in your plans (and I'd recommend against them) then you do not need to be so aggressive with the tube.

[Thomas Nelson]

Now you need to shape the F-16's distinctive mouth. You haven't removed the film yet, right? You'll need to re-heat the piece underwater and gently squeeze the shape you're after. Use the airwar.ru file (linked above) as your reference. Remember that the outside of the shape you are forming will eventually become the INSIDE of the duct; so be sure to bend those outside corners SHARP. And be careful that you don't split the film.

But let's say you can see that the film IS starting to split. Don't worry, all you need to do is apply some of the fiber reinforced tape to the problem area. Just do this before it splits wide open, or you'll need to spackle the crack later on. Again, even if the "worst" happens, just chalk it up to a learning experience, since this piece CAN be spackled without creating unsightly results. Later on, (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4093581&postcount=69) you'll be glad you had the practice. :)

[Thomas Nelson]

Once you've formed the mouth, it's time to bend the inlet tube. By using fanfold/depron, we can get a relatively smooth transition from the inlet to the MiniFan with a minimum of fuss. But it isn't without some fuss. A couple of points:

Even if you are only planning a belly lander, you'll need to bend the tube some. The fact is, the inlet is below the thrust line, so even if you aren't bending around the landing gear, you'll want to arc it until it exits the bird with neither up nor down thrust.

But if you are planning gear, you'll have to bend the tube around the location in the belly where it will stow. This calls for some fairly serious bending ... and patience.

In either case, you'll need to heat the tube again, and slowly start bending it. You will notice that your efforts are causing the tube to flatten in the area where the gear will go. Further, you will get a sense that the upper surface of the tube is attempting to stretch a bit, whereas the lower surface is attemptig to compress a bit. All three things must occur if the tube is to snake around the gear location. Bear in mind, though, that the more the tube collapses, the more it deviates from area ruling, and the less efficient it becomes. In otherwords, don't go hog wild with the bending.

The pictures below show the crucial measurements you are aiming for. Might seem like this is "loosey goosey", and it is. "Tain't Rocket Science" I'm afraid.

BTW, the reason why the duct appears white in the pictures below is that it has econocote on it. Don't worry - you didn't miss a step. I just didn't take the appropriate pictures at the appropriate time.

[Thomas Nelson]

Once you have the a tube that looks like the ones in the preceeding pictures, it's time to peel the film off.

Next, glue the fanfold thrust tube plug to the back of the ducting. You'll cut this off later.

Odds are, you'll need to apply a bit of spackle to fix dings, dents or other irregularities. Remember, the exterior of the fanfold tube will become the interior of your duct, which should be nice and smooth so as not to turbulate the airflow.

Anyway, once you have the shape pictured, apply low heat film to the exterior of the tube. I used Econocote, but anything will suffice. The purpose is to produce a nice smooth surface at the inside of the duct.

[Thomas Nelson]

At this point, I made a mistake. I did NOT apply any kind of release agent to the econocote. Result? the epoxy stuck to the econocote, and was a proverbial pain in the donkey to remove. Next time I will use car wax, or Future floor wax etc to prevent the epoxy from sticking to the econocote.

Anyway, now it's time to apply fiberglass or carbon tissue or carbon cloth etc over the econocote. How much you ask? Well the answer is 'it depends'.

For sure, a light weight (say, 0.75 oz) layer should go directly on top of the econocote. Then, perhaps 2 four ounce layers. Then apply your epoxy. Later on, you'll test the result; you may end up adding more glass later, and you will probably end up adding hoops of carbon laminate too.

If this seems strange, it's because I use uber light mists of 3M77 to adhere each layer to the previous. Consequently, I apply all the layers of glass first, THEN the epoxy. Works for me. Others might want to apply epoxy to each layer as they go. Potayto potahto.

Regardless, go EASY on the epoxy. Be sure to scrape ALL excess off. And DO use laminating epoxy, not the stuff that the hardware store sells!

Once cured, it's time to dissolve the fanfold away. I used gasoline for this. Mega messy, and environmentally ... bad. Make sure you get all the econocote out too. I poured the whole goopy mess into my in my outdoor fire pit and torched it. Everyone loved the hot dogs with the je ne sais quois flavoring.

The final result is pictured. The duct with the black hoops is all reinforced and ready to go. The other is fresh out of the gasoline bath, awaiting the "squeeze test" to see where & what kind of extra reinforcement is needed.

Are we done yet? :confused:

[Thomas Nelson]

These next pictures show the reinforcement needed for the duct that will ultimately be used on my bird with the retracts. The black is Carbon Veil (aka tissue). I used one layer in the areas that were nearly round in cross section, and two in the areas that more oval in cross section. This resulted in the area that will eventually hold the gear being jedi warrior strong. Maybe even too strong. I was aiming for perhaps a 3 ounce duct. Final result was 4 ish. I think I could have eased up on the CF a bit. :(

[Thomas Nelson]

Almost forgot; the preceeding pictures show the Minifan nestled between the inlet and thrust tubes. Obviously I skipped the step where I cut the inlet from the thrust tube and made a flange allowing each to attach to the Minfan.

What you see below is the flange I made that allows the thrust tube to fit around the Minifan. Just a simple ring, spaced with some CF laminate, such that it slides over the Minifan. As intended, the ID of the thrust tube is aligned with the ID of the Minifan.

[Thomas Nelson]

Um yeah. Me too.

Least favorite part of the build. Fortunately you've made it this far with your enthusiasm for the project still intact.

The rest is lots more fun.

Promise.

(raises hand and asks, "what are we building again?")

[Thomas Nelson]

So we're done with parts 1 through 3. Part 4 is easy. Ideally cut the piece out with the grain oriented such that it is stiffest along its length. Might seem strange (shouldn't it be stiffest across the span?) but, alas, no. You'll want it to be stiffest lengthwise so it stays flat when you add part 5.

You might need to splice this piece. Your choice what you do.

[Thomas Nelson]

Part #5 is what this bird is all about.

The upper fuselage shell took me several tries to get right. I made three fanfold versions and 4 paper templates before I was ready to commit depron to the piece. Honestly, I'm still not totally happy with it, but it IS pretty close now. Certainly the plans are ok, but it's the technique that either makes or breaks this piece.

Here's the idea:

You need to orient the grain such that the piece wants to bend as required. In my case, I had to splice an extra bit at the tail end, just behind the stars 'n bars. The picture shows the tell-tale hint-o-yellow from the Probond. When you cut the piece out, do NOT cut the slit showing just behind the canopy. Later ...

Then you need to heat form the piece. First the major convex curve right down the middle, then the two concave curves - one along each side. And these are tricky.

You will definitely need that tube I keep talking about. A 1" - 2" diameter is about right, and about 3' long. This is used for all the bends mentioned.

1. First fill your bathtub with some 4" of HOT water and don the rubber gloves. Then submerge the foam and tube. Start by bending the foam right down the middle. I found that the bend needed was surprisingly more than anticipated. Go slow, allowing the foam to stretch slowly on the outside, and compress sligtly on the inside. You effect the compressing by pushing on the tube and rolling it slightly, all while pulling the foam upwards with your finger tips. Use your model and airwar.ru references to determine when you have enough curvature.

2. Now it's time for the two concave curves along either side of the spine. These are the trickiest part of the whole build, but they are also the focus of this build thread. Similar to the convex curve you just made, now repeat the process gradually splaying the edge of the upper shell outward. The picture shows where to position the tube. You'll need to go over each of these locations a coule of times, each time adding a little more radius.

3. How do you know when you are "there"? When you can lay the upper fuselage shell directly over part 4, with all edges aligned. And everything symmetrical. Again, use your plastic model and pictures as references.

At one point I made a bunch of cross-sectioned templates in order to check my work, but the difference between the before and after was insufficient to justify cutting all the cross sections. Bottom Line: get it symmetrical and get all the edges aligned and you will be pleased with the resulting form.

[Thomas Nelson]

Once satisfied with the fitment, you need to slice part 4 where shown and insert (Probond) part 5. Hold it until it cures with fiber reinforced tape. Make sure the tape is tight to the joint or the glue will show up on your finished bird (yellow on white!).

Ideally, part 5 should have a slight radius to it before inserted. And once inserted, you will need to tighten the bend just behind the canopy. This will have the effect of raising the upper fuselage shell just behind the canopy.

One final comment: if you DO end up with some slight wrinkling at the concave bends, you can reduce, and maybe even remove these with a heat gun. I suggest you try this first on a scrap piece, or on the concave parts of the inside of the shell. A little too much heat and you'll bubble the surface of the depron. A little more, and you'll ruin the piece. I like to play the gun over the surface in single passes, carefully evaluating the effect after each pass. Each pass takes about 1/2 second, and I do maybe 1 pass every 1.5 seconds.

[RCParkflyer]

Hi Thomas,

One heck of a start to the build thread :) oh, and a BIG thank you for the hollow fonts :D

I think I'll give this a little time to "gather steam" before I start to build her, I'm going to build Han's F-22 first, and hopefully by then you should have most of your plans finalized.

Time to edit my free plans page once again :) I'm averaging 135 unique visitor hits per day, and from looking at my webstats, all of these parkjet plans a big hit with the US Military!! I suspect that this thread is going to equal Steve's F-18 threads in popularity too.

Fantastic Job Thomas!!!

Tom - Milwaukee

[AirX]

Hi Thomas,

Great thread, this one is a keeper. I do plan on the belly flopper as it will suit my flying area's but there are several concrete runways available in the area from different clubs.

Eric B.

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Geez Thomas I'm fast but not that fast ;)

DAF

[jet_jer]

Great build thread Thomas - it seems you have this foam fuselage down really good.

jer

[Mr. Boogie]

Nice kickoff TN!

One request, can you use slightly larger pictures (if possible)?

Mr. B

[Romych]

Wery nice, await to continue!

[Hans-Joachim]

Great build thread Thomas !!

I wouldn´t interrupt your build thread with my congratulations,
but all other guys do so and I´m doing too now :)

Hans-Joachim

[Dave Lindsey]

I had a chance to meet Tom and see the Viper. He's a great guy and from our discussion it's obvious that he's put a lot thought and development into the design. The F 16 looks even better "in the flesh" than it does in the pictures.
I know the retracts add a real "cool" factor however IMO (FWIW) I'd take Tom's advice and unless you fly regularly from a smooth, hardtopped runway I'd build it as a "belly flopper" as those tiny wheels and small dia. gear legs will likely mean a fair amount of time in the repair shop.
Tom, I look forward to meeting up again the next time I'm back.
BTW Your term "Silhouette Scale" to describe some of my projects is a lot classier than what I use (Phat Profile) mind if I use it??
Cheers
Dave

[nopistons96]

whoo hoo!!! its here, it's finally here!! beautiful bird Thomas.

mike

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Thomas the 1st installment. I found a good pair of thick rubber gloves at our Sears hardware for only $6. Need to get use to working with such large fingers. I have a 12" piece of broom handle for forming/rolling small parts.... works well.

Undercutting at angle is a good finish carpenter trick for mitered corners, works well here, but only angle cut one side of the slit or you may end up with to large an opening.

I found as you glue each slit and waiting for the ca to set pressed the canopy sides so it lies flat on its bottom edge.... this really forms the sides much better than just holding the canopy in your hand.

Once all glue up. I ca a couple of spots and glue it to a piece of pine board or whatever. It will come off quite easily larger. Now I sanded any high spots with different grits ...a little spackle and thats it. Didn't take 20-30 minutes for the whole whack. I will use wbpu/baby powder and give it 1-2 coats to seal. Should paint up real nice.

BTW as Master Builder/Finisher, John Morgan, says if you sand foam......round the corners of the sandpaper to avoid ding-dats.

Ralph

[pacro]

now this is what i like to see around here LOVELY plane

[Thomas Nelson]

Got some catch'in up to do!

First off Ralph: Looking good! What a surprise ... you're faster than I am at making the canopy! :D :rolleyes:

A couple of observations:
Try rolling the edges of the canopy a little more, with the goal of approximating the Viper's distinctive bubble effect. For instance, you'll see that the front seems a little wide at present. That's because it needs a bit more forming to close it up. To do this, take your sharpest knife and "sharpen" the perimeter of the canopy that will eventually make contact with the fuselage. This will thin that area, which will also help when you reheat it and squeeze it some more. From what I see, I'd grasp the front at the perimeter, squeeze it more round and play the ole heat gun over both interior and exterior. Be patient though or you'll wrinkle the depron. I should say that the last foam canopy I made was from peeled poster board. In my hands, it seems like it might be a little more formable, but this is a very subjective observation.

Anyway, next try the same aproach with the middle portion of the canopy. Finally the tail end. Hopefully these pictures give you a feel for the technique and final shape you're after.

[Thomas Nelson]

Howdy Tom!

As always thanks kindly for the encouragement. You've got the right idea wrt waiting. All the forming and duct work makes this a relatively complicated build. I wasn't trying to be covert or anything, but holding off on releasing the plans will give everyone a chance to see what's up and decide if they want to commit the time & effort to this one. Honestly, I'm pretty sure it's not in the same calibre as Steve's designs. He's done a far better job than I have at minimizing the building complexity while still achieving a scale-like airplane.

A couple more pics for our supa dupa beta builda.

.

[Thomas Nelson]

Glad to have you aboard Eric! Hope it lives up to your expectations!

Nice to see you again Jer! The upper fuse shell is what took the most time to get right (ok, close!) Kudos to Fiddlers Green for the inspiration.

Hey Mr B! Again, thanks for your generosity. The internet is such a cool tool for sharing, but also an excellent medium for colaborating. BTW, my camcorder takes very poor stills. I've blown up these latest pictures a bit - whatcha think ... worth the extra size? FWIW, I now have a proper digital still camera, so pics I take from here on in will be much better. (See the pics in Post #1 for an example). Unfortunately, this thread will be utilizing mostly pre-exiting pictures taken with my camcorder.

[Thomas Nelson]

Welcome to the Ezone Romych!

And Hans-Joachim ... in the time it took me to commence to begin to start to begin to think abouuut even opening this thread ... you've already built THREE F-16's! And one EDF version! Man - I keep telling myself that I am not as old as I feel slow. :D Thanks for the good words!

Was great hooking up with you too, Dave! Next year we BETTER have some cooperative weather or there'll be trouble. Would be great if you could somehow transport one of your silhouette scale birds too. :)

Nice to see pacro an Nopistons96 again; and thanks for the boost! I've been wondering about your handle Mike. If I were to take a stab at it I'd say ... 1996 RX-7??

tn

[Thomas Nelson]

Well - I have to say I don't expect I will be able to do much more in this thread before I head out on vacation on Monday. I'll be gone for three weeks for some much needed RnR. And this weekend is plumb full.

I'll try to get the retracts mapped out for Mr B, but that may be about all I have time for before blasting off for British Columbia. If I find someone willing to share their wireless cable connection (out in booney land) I might chip in a little more building stuff ... we'll see.

tn

[AirX]

Thomas,

I am sure it will exceed all my expectations, you have done a wonderful job. My depron skills are pretty good but you have brought working depron to a new level way above where I now reside... :)

Cheers,

Eric B.

[RCParkflyer]

Have a Great Vacation Thomas!!! and IF your going to "That Lake" again,.... No More water landings LOL

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Super dupa canopy Thomas will work on mine as well later this weekend. As you said the canopy is a great piece to develop the skill/techniques need to form depron, no big deal to do another.

90 degree weather here and the Mrs and I are heading up to our favorite Maine beach for the weekend. Will get back to the TNF16 sometime Sunday.

Ralph

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Need to get this thread back to the fore front.

Waiting for TN to get back from vacation and have worked just a little on the F-16. I have made a trial run of the upper fuse in fff. Its not all that bad to do and opens up a # other possibilities. It will be a little tougher in depron which really translate to working it longer in the hot water.

The first pic shows how I use clamps to hold it in position on the wing planform and let it dry overnite. Good case for spring clothes-pins..make sure you use pads to keep it from identing the fff/depron.

Ralph

[RCParkflyer]

Looks great to me Ralph!!

[Ralph A. D'Amelio]

Its going to fly real fast, its quite small at 24" WS. Maybe a little too small/fast for my tired/old eyes.

Ralph

[RCParkflyer]

Any progress on this Ralph or Thomas?

I'm developing a website that is the logical next step up from my free plans page, and I'm working on up-dating your files so more folks can build this jet.

www.parkjets.com/free-plans.html

Hope ya had a good vacation Thomas :)

Tom - Milwaukee
www.parkjets.com

[gbruce]

Hi All

Thomas brought his F-16 to the Funfly a few weeks ago and we went to a private field to get some flights in...he even let me fly it... :cool:

DAF

This Tiger slows down to a pussy cat and the VERTICAL is very impressive,...have fun and don't worry about it.

Bruce

[Thomas Nelson]

Hi guys. I had unexpected business immediately upon return from my vacation, and so the build thread had to wait. Other stuff came up too but, for the most part, it's all behind me now. I hope to spend some time moving the build forward tonight.

Hey Bruce! Did any of those pics/video turn out?

tn

[gbruce]

HI Thomas

Thanks for the flights, hope I didn't burn up your Lipo pack :eek:

None of the inflight pictures are very good...too far away, but here are a few that turned out OK

[RCParkflyer]

I hate to put pressure on ya :) But this build thread is about 30 Percent MORE Popular than all of the other Free Parkjet plans I have on my new Website Tom.

Lovely F-16 GBruce

http://www.parkjets.com/free-plans.html

Tom - Milwaukee

[AirX]

Hey, i recognize that guy holding the F-16, I met him in houston last week while he was on a business trip. Really great time talking with you Thomas... :)

Cheers,

Eric B.

[scratchandbash]

I'm not a big modern jet fan, as I like early jets and WWII, but I thought I'd take a look at this thread. That red/white/blue F-16 is a very nice looking plane!

[AirX]

Scratch,

Take a look at Thomas video of the performance he is getting. Amazing greater than 1/1 thrust and still able to slow down with good flying characteristics.

Cheers,

Eric B.

Link to video: http://www.parkjets.com/tn-f16-Falcon.html

[Thomas Nelson]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I just need to free up a couple of hours so I can move the build forward again.

Good shots Bruce! Actually, that particular pack really IS no more. I had thought I was noticing a gradual decline in "sting". About two more flights and the center pair of cells began to blister the shrink-wrap. From the start I knew I was pushing it in the Viper, so I don't have any regrets. I had the cutoff set to 2.5v/cell, so that particular flight was no harder on the pack than any of my other flights. No Worries!!

Hey Tom! I'm genuinely surprised by those stats. Guess I better get cooking!

Was great meeting you Eric! Offer stands if you're ever out my way :)

Thanks for the compliment, Scratchandbash! I like the challenge posed by the blended wing designs, but can also relate to their predecessors.

I'll get back to the build later this week, guys. Promise.

[RCParkflyer]

Hi Tom,
I'm very suprized by the stats too :)

I reset the counters yesterday morning, after I loaded the last of the ParkJet Plans on the webpage. To get an idea of how popular the planes are, I'm going to keep track of the hits on each one. The counters are the same one that are used on Ebay, and they only count New visitors to that page, so if someone goes back to a page previously visited, it will not count them.

On my old www.parkfly.rchomepage.com/plans.html page, I only counted total hits on the page. I had over 10,000 unique visitors in about 3-1/2 months, but the total number of "Hits" were over 318,000 !!! thats a lotta clickin LOL

Now about your VERY Popular jet, these are the "top draws" after 24 hours

31 F-16 T. Nelsons
17 F-18 Jetset44's
16 F-100 FuelsGuy
14 F-15 Jetset44
14 A-6 FuelsGuy
11 F-14 Jetset44

I'll report on Friday where ya sit in relation to the others, but I suspect not much of a change, meaning your ROG F-16 is twice as popular as most of the other jets :)

Tom - Milwaukee
www.parkjets.com

[Thomas Nelson]

Website looks good Tom. I hope you figure out what's wrong with your hit counter soon! LOL :D


Gonna try and make some headway tonight. This post picks things up from #21. This means the upper shell (#5) is complete, except for final trimming of the cockpit opening (later). It should now be symmetrical, and its outline should directly correspond with the outline of part #4. It will probably not want to lie completely flat over #4; don't worry ... be happy.

Next step is to add spars to #4. I've shown a split spar with an imaginary meeting at the CG.

In the attached pictures you'll note that the spar is lying on top of #4. This is because on THIS plane I utilized extra wing shells that covered the spar. It was an experiment to check out a couple of things:

I was trying to keep the exterior of my plane smooth and shiny without adding white paint.
I wanted to fully conceal the BLACK spar.
I felt that sanding the airfoil shape would result in a surface texture that I wouldn't like.

Well ... I now feel differently. My suggestion is that you use the attached pictures as loose references only, and that you cut the spar INTO part #4 just like Steve's parkjets. Simpler, lighter, and the sanded finish isn't so bad to look at after all. See my horizontal stabs & rudder, for example.

[Thomas Nelson]

The previous pics also show something else; there are extra depron strips aft of each spar. If you look at your plastic model, or pics or the three-view you'll note that there is extra meat separating the upper fuse from the lower.

These are simple strips (scraps, actually) of depron, and are not found on the plans. Sand them to a point at the back as shown.

[Thomas Nelson]

These pictures show how I formed the upper wing surfaces (#9). No biggie - just remember to work with the grain, not against it. Again, I'd not do this the next time. My wings would simply consist of part #4, sanded to profile.

FWIW, the leading edge of part #9 does not extend all the way to the leading edge of part #4. Later on you will need to sand the leading edge completely flat - perpendicular to the bottom of the wing - making it a 'false leading edge'. Then you'll add a strip of 1/4" depron to this 'face' and sand to an appropriate LE profile. This way, when it eventually gets dinged you can simply cut away the LE and replace it. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Thomas Nelson]

Next up is part #7. Roll the "front" as shown, but keep the back as flat as you can. Again, orient the part such that the grain facilitates the bend.

[Thomas Nelson]

Time has come to fit parts together. Ensure you like how 4 & 5 align. Remember, you'll need to sand/trim the part that butts against #4 for a gap-free joint; and this will take some playing.

Same thing for fitting part 7 to part 4. You'll have cut the parts out at 90 degrees, but you'll need to bevel the edges to get a clean joint. Use your plastic model, template BB and any pictures you have to determine how to blend these parts together.

When ready, First glue the upper wing surfaces on (if applicable). I used CA for this. Next Probond part #5 to #4. It will fit snugly between the upper wing surfaces. Your challenge is to get the wing shells to butt perfectly with the upper fuse shell. For me, this meant gluing small strips of CF as "backing material", and gluing the Upper fuse shell to these. No pics of this backing in action, sorry.

Next glue part #7 to part #4. I used T-pins to hold things together, and tape to control the foaming action (keeping the foam from expanding to visible part of the model). You don't need much glue for this!

[RCParkflyer]

The previous pics also show something else; there are extra depron strips aft of each spar. If you look at your plastic model, or pics or the three-view you'll note that there is extra meat separating the upper fuse from the lower.

These are simple strips (scraps, actually) of depron, and are not found on the plans. Sand them to a point at the back as shown.

Glad to see you back in the saddle again Professor Nelson :)

Those little strips represent the F-16's Air Brakes, they open like clam shells. I saw one open on a WI ANG F-16 at the EAA Fly-in last summer. (Pic Below)

My hit counters are working just fine! Your now about 45 Percent more popular than the next highest jet The F-100. Your at 74 unique visitors in two days :) People know a great design when they see it :D

Tom - Milwaukee

[Thomas Nelson]

Time to make the horizontal stabilators. Grain direction is not critical. I used a drill bit and (by hand) carefully tunnelled through the stab at the location shown and glued in (CA) a Carbon Fiber rod.

I then chose telescoping pieces of brass. One piece was CA'd on the CF rod, and the other piece simply slid over. This amounts to a simple bushing arrangement.

Next manually drill a hole in the aft fuse at the appropriate angle for the stabs, and slide 'em in place. When satisfied, lube up the parts that Must Not Stick, rough up the parts that Must Stick, and Probond the stabs in place. Watch your alignment - Probond will foam and might push your stabs out of place if you don't ensure they can't move while the glue cures.

Finally, drill out a servo horn and CA it to the end of the brass bushing. Lots of CA. And scuff that brass tube real good, too.

Not much is dimensionally critical here, so I'm not including much in the way of tubing lengths and such. Hopefully the pictures can do a lot of the talking (typing).

:)

Anyway, two more things to do before you're finished with the stabs.
First, cut strips of 0.007" thick laminate about 1/16" wide and CA them at the root of each stab; top and bottom.
Second, Probond CF tubes that run from the stabs forward to the spars. I premix the Probond with water so it REALLY foams, and then smear this real well so as to get a good bond between the CF, the depron, and the brass bushings. The idea is to dissipate both flight loads and landing loads that the stabs will see so if anything breaks, it WONT be the back end of the fuse ... it'll be the stabs themselves, which are easily fixed.

[Thomas Nelson]

Pooped. Gotta crash for the night and let Ralph catch up.

Hey Tom! Your comment helped me realize I wasn't being clear regarding the strips, so I went back and edited one of my pictures. The strips I am referring to are "add-on's" (actually pinned on in the pics) to part #4, and are included to simply thicken the ledge on either side of the fuse. While they do happen to stretch all the way back to the airbrakes, they weren't really there to model the airbrakes per se. I suspect you thought I was referring to the 'strips' along each side of where the exhaust nozzle will ultimately go - strips that are integral to part #4 - but, alas, no. Good eyes and good comment, Tom! Keeping me on my toes & other builders out of trouble! Hopefully my description is a little clearer now. :)

Oh - and I totally agree with Mr Boogie's request to use larger, higher resolution pictures. Unfortunately, these are all I have for now. I'm thinking I'll photo-document my next build too, and then update these low-res pictures with higher-res ones as I have time.

[Thomas Nelson]

Got another hour or so ...

So your plane should look pretty much like these pictures; except you'll have only one duct. Just to confirm, the more restrictive duct is only needed if you plan to install landing gear.

No harm adding the nose cone at this point. Mine was EPP, so it didn't get dinged as I continued the build. In fact it offered additional protection to the front of the plane. If you'd prefer to use EPS for your nose cone, you may want to delay adding it until a little later. Simply use the three-view to transfer the shape to a block of EPP or EPS and carve/sand until satisfied. I generally glue nose cones on before the final sanding operation. Then I mask the fuse and continue sanding the cone until flush. Works for me.

[Thomas Nelson]

It's time to wire up your motor, speed controller and tape the ducting to the fan unit. The diameter of the glass ducts will be the same as the Minifan, so you need to create a spacer equal to the thickness of the plastic used in the fan. This will allow you to slip the inlet ducting and thrust tube over top of the Minifan, and tape in place.

Remember to keep your wire lengths to a minimum. I also like to incorporate a couple of twists along its length. I ran the battery leads around one side of the duct, and the receiver wiring around the other. The idea was to maximize the separation between the two. I honestly dunno how effective this is at minimizing RF noise, I simply don't get any glitching at all with my Berg Rx (stock antenna).

[Thomas Nelson]

Now lay your completed ducting over the fuse as shown and trace around it. Cut away the large rectangle of depron as shown. You want the opening to be VERY tight to the duct, since it will be a stressed member in the airframe.

Add your pushrods and servos. I glued my servos up front, on either side of my cockpit opening, allowing sufficient room for the 3S1P 3100mah pack to fit between them.

[Thomas Nelson]

Use 0.007" Carbon Fiber laminate hoops to reinforce your ducting. As a minimum, naturally your ducting needs to be sufficiently rigid to withstand full throttle without collapsing. So be sure to test your ducting before you install it in your airframe. Plus, you need to add 3 layers of CF laminate to the place where your spars intersect the ducting.

However, if you are planning landing gear, you'll want additional reinforcement. I simply wrapped 2-3 layers of CF laminate at the locations shown. In case you're wondering, I didn't have pictures of this step with my phase 2 duct, so you're looking at my original duct in this pic.

In all cases, simply use regular CA to glue the CF laminate in place.

I also made a 1/4" thick 'dummy' inlet lip so I could get a feel for the spacing between the duct and fuse up front. Up to you if you want to follow my lead here. The final lip will be a combo of spackle and depron; the dummy lip will be discarded.

Finally, trim your spars to length such that they are a perfect fit against the reinforced duct.

[Thomas Nelson]

"Play" with the fit of your ducting in the opening you cut. Ensure the spars make contact with the CF reinforced part of the duct. Make sure that the fit isn't so snug that your wings end up with unwanted diehedral.

Once satisfied, premix Probond with water (approximately 4:1), stir for a minute or so, then drain all excess water. Lightly coat the parts of the duct and depron that will come in contact with each other. Then wait until the Probond cures to the consistency of peanut butter and coat everything again. By "everything", I mean all parts that will be in contact with the duct. Set your duct in place. You may want a spacer at the back to achieve the scale location (check your reference drawing). You may also want a second spacer to ensure sufficient clearance between the fuse and inlet lip for the scale-like splitter (last pic in the sequence below). Check a couple times during the curing process to ensure the Probond doesn't expand out to your pushrods - or anyplace else you don't want it.

In my case, I had to weight the model to ensure good alignment while the adhesive cured.

[AirX]

Genious, simple and straight forward. Thanks Thomas...:)

Eric B.

[Thomas Nelson]

You're too kind, Eric. I've seen genius and it's a loong ways off from me. :)

This here build is getting closer, though. Next up is the exterior exhaust cone, or part #13. Pretty straight forward, but I included a couple of pictures just 'cause I had 'em.

When cured, spot glue it on the upper fuse shell. You'll need to cut some pockets where the cone comes in contact with each taileron clevis.

[Thomas Nelson]

Part #8 is, perhaps, the hardest part of the build. So, it makes total sense that we tackle it last.

It is curious, though, that I didn't take more pictures of this part. If the concept proves difficult to pick up I think I'll just make another piece and document it properly this time. However, for the sake of expediency ... let's have at 'er.

First off, there is a high degree of connection with this part and the glass duct made earlier. If the inlet of your glass duct is significantly different from my own, you'll have to do some trimming, or even splicing of depron. This is not a big deal, it's just part of the process when working with interconnected, hand-shaped parts.

When cutting this part out, be sure to orient the grain correctly. And whether you're working with depron OR fanfold you'll want to add some tape to the inlet area. I've included a picture showing the location, but if I were to describe it in words I'd say, "use fiber-reinforced tape to strengthen the OD of the inlet of part #8, directly adjacent to the 'corners' of the 'smiley face'." If you don't, this area will split for sure.

The sharp-eyed will remember that I was alluding to the forming of this part waaay back in post 12. (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3866039&postcount=12)

[Thomas Nelson]

Now the really REALLY sharp eyed folks will notice that the lower fuse shell seen in the previous post looks like you know what. :rolleyes:

Yep - there's more work to do.

The problem is that the lower fuse shell needs compound bends. It needs to arch a bit from front to back. On my prototype I achieved this by inserting a sliver of fanfold at the ventral position, which did exactly what I wanted.

On this bird, I went about it differently, achieving the same end. The approach is similar to that used on my canopy. After forming part #8 as shown in the preceeding post, I cut it into 5 separate pieces. Like VERY thick slices of bread. And then I sanded a small (1/16" to maybe 1/18") amount of depron from the TOP only. Similar to bevelling an aileron. I started from the back of part #8, and gradually worked my way forward, cutting, sanding, then regluing one-at-a-time. At the front, the amount of material removed by the sanding operation was approaching 1/8". Toward the back, the amount of material removed was more like 1/16". Every slice or two, I'd slide the part up the duct and check my progress.

So it's not rocket science, but did present a challenge for my creative side. Hopefully these pictures adequately explain the technique. If not, then I guess I'll be making another piece. :)

[Thomas Nelson]

Once satisfied with how part #8 fits against part #4 (and the ducting) Probond it in place.

You'll need to spend a bit of time spackling the intake, getting a nice rounded transition between the depron and glass duct. I glued some sandpaper to a popsicle stick and used this to shape the spackle inside the duct.

You'll also want to spend some time getting the splitter looking scale-like. Given the imprecision involved in the technique, there's just no way I could predict exactly what these should look like and place them on the plans. So ... use your model and three-view and carve up pieces that mimick the real deal.

[Thomas Nelson]

Now I should add that the belly of my plane used to hold retractable landing gear. When I removed the gear and glued the gear doors in place, I felt that part #8 was weakend to the point that it might fail during a hard belly landing. So, I took some 1/8" depron, shaped it to the contours of the duct, and trimmed the opposite side such that it conformed to the inside of part #8. Think of it as a 'keel', tying landing loads back to the duct.

This little step might not be necessary if you build your plane as a belly lander from the start, and can consistently land the bird gently. But if your field is rough, or you foresee 'carrier-style' landings you might want to add the keel.

[Kevin Cox]

Nice work Thomas!

[Thomas Nelson]

Hard parts are all done now.

Vertical Stabilizer: I suggest sanding part #13a to shape before gluing it to part #12. Use your model and pictures to determine the profile. When satisfied, play the heat gun gently over the surface to regain some of the original sheen of depron. Then take some time to sand a radius to the bottom of the Vert Stab so it will sit flush (and perpendicular) with the fuselage. I just laid sandpaper over the fuse and dragged the part over it until I had the correct profile. Glue it with Probond. Use minimal water so it doesn't expand excessively; in my case, I barely wet the fuse, applied glue to the rudder, and taped it in place.

Ventral fins: I use 3mm diameter x 3mm long neodymium magnets to hold these in place. If you locate your speed controller as I did, it will be hidden between the two ventrals. Interesting sidebar ... when flying in turbulent conditions gbruce noticed that my ventrals were 'waving about'. So, you may wish to use 1/4" thick depron instead of the 1/8" specified on the plans. The extra thickness would likely help stabilize them against the the belly. In any event, I've never had one detach in flight ... only upon landing. Here's a link (http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=12629&sort=1&cat=500&page=1) that might prove helpful.

[Thomas Nelson]

Thank-you Kevin!

[Thomas Nelson]

So basically, you're done.

Except that fellow ezoner Mr Boogie convinced me to include some shots and descriptions of the landing gear install. There will also be some details on the plans (soon, promise). I'm a bit reluctant seeing how prior to this build I had no experience with retracts. Anyway, here goes ...

[Thomas Nelson]

I used the Wattage gear, both nose and mains. The wheels I used were nothing special - foam with a 1" diameter for the nose 1.5" for the mains. I used a single HS 85 to drive all three retracts, and an HS-55 for nose wheel steering.

I used the three-view to cut out the landing gear doors, with two exceptions:
1. Instead of cutting three doors, I extended the edges and cut out a single, large "hatch". My intent was to get it working, and THEN make three scale doors.
2. The doors for the mains do not follow the three-view exactly; they're shorter owing to the model having a more forward CG than the real deal. The back edge of the mains should be 2" behing the CG.

Hopefully the pictures explain things better than my words. Oh - and the 1/16" thick balsa you see ... that will become the cradle for the retract module.

[Thomas Nelson]

The retract module was nothing more than a means to get all three gear aligned properly before mounting them to the duct. This means aligned with the angles presented by the three-view, and aligned such that they would retract properly.

First step is to wet & bend the balsa cradle so that it conforms to the ducting.

Second step is to reinforce it with 0.007" CF laminate.

Third is to make balsa blocks that will support the retract units in the cradle.

Fourth is to glue the mains, then the nose into position, as determined by the three-view. No wire has been bent yet.

Fifth is to bend the wire in accord with the plans.

[Thomas Nelson]

Next, place the module in the plane, add the wheels and verify that all is aligned & that the wings are level. You also want to ensure that your plane sits with some positive incidence, which will aid takeoff.

When satisfied, premix a bunch of Probond and water. When it reaches the consistency of peanut butter spread it along the duct and cradle and position the retract module. I let the glue cure with the plane on its wheels, thereby assuring the wings would be level.

[Thomas Nelson]

Now its time to install the HS-85 retract servo, and HS-55 steering servo. You'll note from the pictures, though, that I cut away the part of the cradle that lies between the mains and nose gear; it interferes with the locating of the retract servo if you leave it.

The steering servo is pretty easy to figure out, and should be placed last. The retract servo isn't that bad either, except that the holes on the servo output arm need to be drilled (or chosen if already drilled) very carefully such that all retracts lock simultaneously.

This step is exceedingly hard to describe. Fortunately, I have a video (http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=13387&sort=1&cat=500&page=1) that shows what everything looks like when it is working. If a picture is worth a thousand words, a video ought to be worth a million, no?

[Stefan lamers]

Hi thomas
very nice model and build thread.
greetings,

stefan

[Thomas Nelson]

And greetings to you too, Stefan! Always appreciate kudos coming from a fello F-16 designer/builder. Thank-you very kindly!

Have you got any new models underway that we don't know about yet?

tn

[Michael Theodose]

Thomas,
Excellent work. Are your plans in tiled form anywhere? I would like to start building.
Thanks
Mike

[RCParkflyer]

they haven't been tiled yet

[Ron Laden]

Excellent Thomas, and quite ingenious, its great to watch talented people such as yourself working through new ideas and inventive techniques which we all can share.

Cheers
Ron

[Stefan lamers]

Hi Thomas
No new projects yet, i am now finally very close to flying my tornado for the first time. if i get that working i can continue.
Thanks and greetings,
stefan

[Thomas Nelson]

Hey Mike - stay tuned (as in DON'T touch that dial).

Right back at ya, RON! I see your Typhoon is wearing fresh paint - looks good!

And I am definitely looking forward to seeing your swing-wing in action, Stefan. Are you planning to release plans for it?

[Thomas Nelson]

He that has endured to the end ...

Untiled Plans (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/images/Depron%20F-16.pdf) (a BIG thank-you to Mr Boogie)
Tiled Plans (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/images/Depron%20F-16-TILED.pdf) (ditto)
Rudder Decals (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/images/Tbird%20Transparency%20-%20Rudders%20-%20Final.TIF)
General Decals (http://www.tnelson.rchomepage.com/images/Tbird%20transparency%20decals3.TIF)
Exhaust Nozzle Decal (http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=19248&sort=1&cat=500&page=1) (another BIG thank-you to Esprit440)

Note: seems I somehow messed up the exhaust nozzle file. Presently, it is sized correctly if you print from within MS Paint, AND adjust the "page setup" to 156%. I know, kinda awkward. I'll fix this soon and edit this post. Dunno what I did ...

[AirX]

Congratulations Thomas, another winner. Now to get this one started. Also to Mr. Boogie nice plan set... :)

Eric B.

[rcjetpilot]

Hi Thomas,

Simply fantastic work!

A lot of work went into this thread and the effort is greatly appreciated.

Bob

[RCParkflyer]

WOOO HOOOOO :) Millions Of F-16 Fanatics thank you from the bottom of there hearts!!

Tom,
I've up-dated the F-16 listing on my website.

Let me know if you end up using a lot of bandwidth, and I will host these plans on my website, too. If you go over 10 Gig's a month they shut down your site till the end of the month.
Thanks,

Tom - Milwaukee
www.parkjets.com

[Thomas Nelson]

Hey Eric - looking forward to seeing how your own copy turns out - and to getting your thoughts on how it flies! By all means post any questions you have right here. My plan is to answer all questions as they come up, and then go back and modify the unclear parts of the original post. BTW, Ralph's idea of building a 'test' bird of fanfold (before committing depron to the build) is a good one ... I didn't notice if you had any of the blue stuff in your inventory ... ?

Good to hear from you again, Bob! You know, I wholy agree with you - snapping a few pics during a build is no sweat ... but explaining each & every step along the way turns it into something of a chore for me. I have a genuine respect for those that develop first class manuals; the Savage Su-27 instruction set being a real gem.

Hey Tom - thanks for the offer! I had made previous arrangements with Tim Hart of Foamyfactory.com, but if for some reason that falls through I will gladly take you up on your kind offer. We'll see, of course ... but I really can't see this build being that popular. Steve's got the corner on designs that have mass appeal! Oh - and I really want to get some decent video of the phase 2 bird in the air. If it ends up being a larger file, I guess I could imagine bandwidth becoming a problem. We'll see!

Thanks again, guys.

[RCParkflyer]

Hi Tom,

Sounds Good to me. I know Tim at www.FoamyFactory.com does a great job :) I've been keeping track of the popularity of the planes on my site for the last two weeks. the top 5 is an interesting mix to say the least :) You held the lead with your F-16 the first week, but this week, there is a surge of interest in Steve's F-14.

These totals are for Unique Visitors, repeat visits are not counted

total visitors 1,664
F-14 - 395
F-16 TN 271
A-6 - 243
F-16 SL 202
F-15 - 198

SU-27 - 100

Tom - Milwaukee
www.parkjets.com

[Veloc-E-raptor]

Excellent construction!
I am considering re-working the tail end of my f-22
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374962
see post 60/61
(before skins etc make it any more difficult to change), to use a similar method of strengthening the stab mounts (instead of my 'spectacles' approach).
What size carbon tubes did you use (running forward to the spars)?

[AirX]

Hi Thomas,

I have about 20 sheets of the blue stuff under the bed, hiding it from the wifey... :) I need to get a minifan now and then I will give it a go. I think it will be a fine bird and I think the duct shortcut will work ok, I will just carve a shape and pull the plastic tube over it to shape it with my heat gun. Found the plastic mailing tubes at work... :)

Cheers,
Eric B.

Hey Eric - looking forward to seeing how your own copy turns out - and to getting your thoughts on how it flies! By all means post any questions you have right here. My plan is to answer all questions as they come up, and then go back and modify the unclear parts of the original post. BTW, Ralph's idea of building a 'test' bird of fanfold (before committing depron to the build) is a good one ... I didn't notice if you had any of the blue stuff in your inventory ... ?

[Thomas Nelson]

Ah - I see exactly your question Veloc-E-raptor. I think I agree with RCParkflyer that the pivot location is not that critical (so long as you don't cross that 25% MAC point that beanie pointed out - but that's not your issue here). OTOH, I can also relate to aiming for the look of the scale pivot location.

The reason I didn't go with the spectacle approach on my bird is I felt that CF tubes were an easy way to address the flight loads on the stab, and that if I extended them far enough forward, the tubes would be an uber strong mounting point for my retracts (Dave Morris idea). Finally, I didn't like the minimal clearance I had around the ducting, which was also a problem at the spar location. So that's the rationale for the approach.

Bottom Line: the wall thickness and diameter of the tube I chose had more to do with convenience and fit than strength. Almost any thin-walled tube or rod you put in there will be way overkill. If it has sufficient area for the glue to bite and hold onto - you're set. I think mine was 5/32" at the OD.

Hope this helps! And that's a great looking jet you're building, too. Hand forming depron is sure a lot easier to do than it is to describe, wouldn't you agree?

[Thomas Nelson]

Sounds good Eric. You know, I've never even seen the plastic mailing tube to which you and Hans-Joachim refer. Gotta look into that.

[AirX]

Hi Thomas,

Monday I will get the distributor name for you.

Eric B.

[Veloc-E-raptor]

Thanks Tom for the reasoning and the info. I agree: the F-22 is great looking (hope my model comes close!), and forming the depron is alot easier to do than describe!

[power]

Well.... I could not take it any longer I ordered up a Minifan and went to Kinko's. I am waiting on depron and cleaning off my bench :) Thomas, did you post the throws you are flying with? If so I missed them :o Thanks, I am looking forward to this one.


Mike