electric vs nitro full size helis

[FlybyPDX]

I have 2 coronas and a T-rex. I can hover well and do FF. I want a full size heli for 3D I am thinking about buying a nitro but I do not know.

I have worked with nitro on trucks and I know how much of a pain they can be.

What are the advantages/ disadvantages of geting a full size nitro vs an electric?

[askman]

if you want .30 or .50 sized heli, definitely go with raptor or sceadu. Gas is cheaper in the short run, but messier and has higher maintenance. you know you can do 3D with smaller electric heli like logo 10 or lipoly.

[e-sailpilot86]

Not a heli pilot, but it seems it's a matter of budget, saftey considerations, equipment you have, and experience. I'd go with gas/glow as it's cheaper initially, and since I'd be crashing, I wouldn't want to be replacing giant lipo packs in bad situations. As for performance, they're equal, +- a few based on what you stick in the heli. However, if you setup an electric specifically for speed/acceleration, the electric will win as there's no loss in torque like an electric. Obviously, there's nothing to clean up with an electric, and there's the slime factor with the nitro, but there's the extreme fire hazzard with Lipos if you have an accident.

[FlybyPDX]

I was thinking about a raptor. My friend has a sceadu and he really likes it.

If im going to go nitro.... eventually I will want to upgrade. So maybe I shoul;d just go with the raptor 90SE


if you want .30 or .50 sized heli, definitely go with raptor or sceadu. Gas is cheaper in the short run, but messier and has higher maintenance. you know you can do 3D with smaller electric heli like logo 10 or lipoly.

[mjws]

Almost everyone running 90's keeps a 50 around to beat on. They are tough to beat for pure value. Great power to weight nearly as capable as 90's but WAY WAY WAY cheaper to run.

I get 6 tanks a gallon at 9 minutes each on my 90's. You do the math, but if you fly a LOT it will add up fast. Contrast that with maybe 20 tanks of 12-13 minutes on my Hyper 50's. The 50's are twitchier and more nimble but don't have the endless reserve power of the 90's.

Nothing beats the 'presence' of the 90 in the air, but if you had both I would bet you money your 50 would see more flight time.

You can't really go wrong either way. But to be blunt I was somewhat underwealmed when I moved up into the 90 class bird. A modern 50 with a Hyper, Pipe, and good gear isn't that much off the 90, and beats the 60's and 70's (which I also have) all day long.

Good Luck,

Mike

[Norman Greene]

All these recommendations are very well, but ...
Do you prefer electric power?

If you do prefer electric, get a Logo 10, put brushless in it, and leave the more fragile lipos for the moment, using metal cased GP3300s or better Nimh for their toughness, while you are still in the "bashing it" phase.

[mjws]

That's a good point, Norman.

To put it in perspective. I've spent 10's of thousands on heli's. Love 'em. Completely addicted. I can fly the crap out of them, get hit with the odd gotcha... but don't crash. Crash costs are a non issue.

BIG (Ion, Joker, 3DMP) electrics scare the crap out of me. $1000 bucks a crash if I do my lipos. They are still 'exotics' as far as I'm concerned. The small stuff like a logo 20 is a very poor value, IMHO. But the performance is becoming reasonable.

The 2500w raptor 50 conversion is mind blowing in terms of performance... but once again. Be prepared to ante up.

Mike

[askman]

big 600s turning at high rpm is very impressive, but I would go with raptor 50, if I was going to gas. (I never will though for myself) I have seen what acrobat SE can do on 4S, and it is more capability than I can see myself use in next few years . I've seen what alan szabo jr can do with logo 14. again wow. we shall see what happen in couple years with battery cost, but I am sticking with it. guy who manufactures 3dmp has gone to electric for his competition heli as it has more power and more consistentcy, but large packs are still too expensive. (of course, at 6 flight per gallon and 25-30bucks a gallon, it does not take lot of flight to go up in cost)

[FlybyPDX]

I would love to get an ion, joker, or a BIONIC!!! Buy I will be paying much less for the same performance on a 50 or even 90 size raptor.


Im confused about crashes.... What would be more expensive to crash? An electric with NIMH or a 50 size heli?

[askman]

part cost on raptor is reasonable and cheaper than logo 10.

[Shortman]

I am kind of in the middle of starting in helicopters. I've been flying gas and electric airplanes for the past 5 years but just bought my first heli transmitter :). Being that I do have all brushless equipment sitting here, how would you compare say a Trex 450X to a Raptor 30 in terms of performance? Provided I already have the Li Poly packs and all the goodies to make a nice electric. I am still concerned that the Raptor will be a better helicopter?

[askman]

bigger helis are always better in most cases from stability to visual aspect. that is not to say trex won't fly well. it will with some tuning. get someone to help setit up for initial flight in either cases... corona is the best beginner heli bar none if you have no help.... even though it is fixed pitch...

[fightingfalcon83]

I initially started with the TREX, taught my self to hover and Fast forward flight etc... then went straight to a Rappy 50V2 and havn't looked back. Basically as one guy put it - if you can hover the TREX you'll fall asleep hovering a 50 size. It certainly boosted my confidence and as stated before the 50's have great power to weight, a bit cheaper if you cant afford the 90 and not so intimidating. Every heli flyer with a 90 size machine I've met has at least 1 if not 2 Rappy 50's for Sunday thrashing and uses the 90 for competition flying. A Rappy 30 when tuned right will really get up and go, but many find it limiting and regret not going for a 50 straight up. I've seen stock rappy 50's with the right fingers behind the sticks do some pretty wicked 3D work.

[mjws]

I am kind of in the middle of starting in helicopters. I've been flying gas and electric airplanes for the past 5 years but just bought my first heli transmitter :). Being that I do have all brushless equipment sitting here, how would you compare say a Trex 450X to a Raptor 30 in terms of performance? Provided I already have the Li Poly packs and all the goodies to make a nice electric. I am still concerned that the Raptor will be a better helicopter?
It's tough to compare the two, fairly. The real upside to the trex as I see it is good support and cheap parts. It's convenient and reasonably cheap for a beginner. Very durable when you crash it.

Shortman, you already have rc experience... fly glow and gas. Don't even think about a 30. Get a 50 from day one, that will be the best move you can make by a LONG LONG ways.

In terms of flight. If you ante up for a HV trex (4s min) either do an eccpm mod or buy a frame set. You can make a trex perform reasonably well. Easily as good as a 30 in terms of power to weight and flight capability. But it will lack the presence and stability in the air. It's a pretty cheap option if you already have the motor, packs, chargers etc.

They really have different roles in my view. I'd probably grab the trex... fly it in my backyard and park to get the basics down. Grab the 50. Then you'll be on a quest to try and get the trex to fly the same. If you start with the rex you won't know what you're missing. ;)

Mike

[HoverDown3K]

Here is the LIPO MYTH AGAIN, why do people think that a crash will destroy a large lipo? I think if you search you will find this is VERY RARE.

Ways around this.
Do not buy ONE BIG lipo pack, buy a couple of smaller lipo packs and run them in parrallel, this is easy and cheap and makes balanceing cells easier.

also in a crash with parrallel lipos, it is easy to replace one bad pack vs the whole pack.

I am still not sure how this myth got spread. Crashing a large E helicopter and it ruins your lipos, I have crash with lipos and I have only had one pack get damaged, in many crashes

I removed the damaged cell and use the good ones for another model now. no biggie..
or you can save them and make a 4s lipo if you have another pack get damaged.

[Tanner Hall]

I would love to get an ion, joker, or a BIONIC!!! Buy I will be paying much less for the same performance on a 50 or even 90 size raptor.


two more myths. the truth is: 1) a 3dmp or well setup logo 14 will outperform any glow 50 and many glow 90's and 2) a complete glow 90 setup will cost just as much or even more than a big e-heli with batteries.

if you want electric, get electric. if you want glow, get glow. but there's no overwhelming reason to choose either one, imo.

[Norman Greene]

two more myths. the truth is: 1) a 3dmp or well setup logo 14 will outperform any glow 50 and many glow 90's and 2) a complete glow 90 setup will cost just as much or even more than a big e-heli with batteries.

if you want electric, get electric. if you want glow, get glow. but there's no overwhelming reason to choose either one, imo.
The real point is that a well set up electric will do everything required. So with current technology the choice is now based on personal taste rather than a case of electric can't do this, or glowfuel can't do that.
However...if the user is not experienced at tuning engines, electric may seem simpler to that person. It does not mean that this is the case for everyone.

[Tanner Hall]

i think we agree? my post may have been confusing. i DO believe electrics can perform at least as well as, in some cases better, than similarly sized glow machines.

p.s. i own a 3DMP. :)

[ozace]

get the raptor 50. It will allow you to fly in windy conditions that will ground a trex.
My raptor 50 is stock and flys very well, it is cheap to repair and fuel is cheap.
I have moved away from larger E helis due to the cost of lipos. To spend a day at the field i need 3 packs and that costs heaps. Logo 10 is as big as i go with lipo now.

As to the myths, i have lost a lipo in a crash and lost packs sitting on the shelf. I have also destroyed packs due to abuse and negligence. I am yet to loose a gallon of glow just sitting an the shelf, and when the heli goes in i loose a couple of cents of glow not a years supply.

[FlybyPDX]

ozace, was the pack on the shelf fully charged? How long was it not in use?

[ozace]

In the last 6 months i have lost aprox 8 lipo packs. Some swelled up on the shelf fully charged waiting for a weekend flying, some 1/2 charged in storage. Some from being droped on the concrete and some from dangerous charger.

[FlybyPDX]

what brands have you lost?

[ozace]

the only ones that i have not had a problem with is etec, old and new. In total i have 40-50 lipo packs ranging from 2s 450mah up to 4s3p 6000 mah .

[Tanner Hall]

having that many packs swell in storage is definitely not normal. you eithr had a bad batch of cells or something else is going on.

[ozace]

having that many packs swell in storage is definitely not normal. you eithr had a bad batch of cells or something else is going on.

I still consider lipos as experimental. It is unusuall but not that uncommon. I follow the batter threads a fair bit and see many people have pack "go" for no apparant reason. I know in my case none of the cells are pushed to any where close to their limits and some of my packs are getting close to 3 years old and still perform much like they did when new. (due to light use)

my most upsetting incident was dropping a 3s2p pack onto the concrete while trying to set up a heli, totally my fault but it still cost me a pack. it hit on the corner and damaged the corner badly, so i disposed of the pack.

[Norman Greene]

having that many packs swell in storage is definitely not normal. you eithr had a bad batch of cells or something else is going on.
I disagree.
There are many elements on the discussion threads that will not advise beginners just how fragile this technology actually is.

I would say that it is "normal" for newbies to trash their lipos within a short time (days/weeks).
In "newbies" I am talking about leccie flyers with maybe 2 years/3-4 models experience here. I am including "all" glo flyers who buy lipos.

Everyone "knows it all" until after the lipo fails, then it is "the battery's fault". For many reasons, financial and psychological they often won't admit that they broke it, albeit with something that is rather easy to break.
Your reply reads (to me) a bit like the discussion that sometimes takes place over a crashed airplane. Phrases like "that shouldn't have failed" get used. Nobody has the guts to tell the guy that the entire model is the pilot's responsibility, including finding faults before they fail.

The previous post is really just being honest and helpful with his experience, and you are saying "it's someone elses fault". How will that help a beginner reading this?

Everything has to very correct with lipoly technology. It is not robust, and robust or bulletproof is what most modellers need, comnsidering the abuse the average modeller gives his gear without being aware that he is abusing it. It is not yet suited to beginners IMHO. Although it is much tougher than it was.
This generation of lipoly is seeing the safeguards introduced as add-ons. The next generation of lipoly will have this built-in, and should then begin to approach the reliability of lipos as used in laptops and mobile phones.

But just for now, IMHO the humble nimh is a better bet for a newcomer, as it will last as long as the model.

[ozace]

I dont think there is any thing wrong with using lipos, as long as the user knows the risks. I have been playing with lipos for nearly 3 years now, and i expect to loose packs. I know from experience that one lazy episode will harm them and i may loose a pack because of it. For me that is part of the price of playing. When someone comes on the forums and has issues with their first pack, i have to wonder what they were led to believe when they purchased them.

Now i must say i agree with Norman, using gp3300 cells in my logo 10 or eolo give respectable performance and reasonable runs, all with durability and safety

[Norman Greene]

... When someone comes on the forums and has issues with their first pack, i have to wonder what they were led to believe when they purchased them...
I think that is the key ... what are the expectations of the modeller .

Certainly there is not a problem with lipo. It has made electric flight comprable with glowfuel. But it is more fragile than older battery types, and for the guys who absolutely hammer them ....
I can hear you all out there ... saying to yourselves .... that's not me... :)

I think, that to be very honest about it - we should say that electric can compete with glowfuel for performance, and for duration. IMHO It is superior for smaller models, and more convenient to use. But the glowfuel option is still more damage resistant when accidents happen.

[Tanner Hall]

I disagree.
There are many elements on the discussion threads that will not advise beginners just how fragile this technology actually is.

I would say that it is "normal" for newbies to trash their lipos within a short time (days/weeks).
In "newbies" I am talking about leccie flyers with maybe 2 years/3-4 models experience here. I am including "all" glo flyers who buy lipos.

Everyone "knows it all" until after the lipo fails, then it is "the battery's fault". For many reasons, financial and psychological they often won't admit that they broke it, albeit with something that is rather easy to break.
Your reply reads (to me) a bit like the discussion that sometimes takes place over a crashed airplane. Phrases like "that shouldn't have failed" get used. Nobody has the guts to tell the guy that the entire model is the pilot's responsibility, including finding faults before they fail.

The previous post is really just being honest and helpful with his experience, and you are saying "it's someone elses fault". How will that help a beginner reading this?

Everything has to very correct with lipoly technology. It is not robust, and robust or bulletproof is what most modellers need, comnsidering the abuse the average modeller gives his gear without being aware that he is abusing it. It is not yet suited to beginners IMHO. Although it is much tougher than it was.
This generation of lipoly is seeing the safeguards introduced as add-ons. The next generation of lipoly will have this built-in, and should then begin to approach the reliability of lipos as used in laptops and mobile phones.

But just for now, IMHO the humble nimh is a better bet for a newcomer, as it will last as long as the model.

easy there, killer. i merely stated that it is not normal for packs to swell in storage unless other factors are involved, e.g. it was overdischarged in prior flight, overcharged, overheated, etc. don't be an alarmist...you're doing NO one a favor by preaching the "great evils" of lithium polymer. given a little instruction, even beginners can safely use lipos and benefit from their advantages.

[Norman Greene]

easy there, killer.
Heh heh

i merely stated that it is not normal for packs to swell in storage unless other factors are involved, e.g. it was overdischarged in prior flight, overcharged, overheated, etc. don't be an alarmist.
As far as that goes - You're absolutely right. Was I alarmist? ;)

you're doing NO one a favor by preaching the "great evils" of lithium polymer. given a little instruction, even beginners can safely use lipos and benefit from their advantages.
And that's true too. The trouble is the "preaching the great evil bit" I have found that it seems very hard to give objective advice to enquirers because if a recommendation is made, there is a big need to avoid criticising sellable product.
Then the problem becomes one where if I for example say to a beginner "you can use this or that, but this is more suitable to your needs", I cannot continue and say " because that doesn't do such a function as well"
It is a sort of political correctness of the discussion group, (which I guess is necessary to prevent abuses).

I suppose I should elaborate by confirming that I too use lipo, and find them very good. But I also use nimh, and I think a beginner will have an easier time with them.

We all have an apprenticeship to serve with electric flying, it consists of pilot skill crash damage, modelling mistakes causing crash, and reverse polarity wrong wiring type burnouts that even the most experienced can do in a mad moment. Soldering nicad and nimh breaks a few cells while we learn to do it, and lipo are susceptible to being broken too. It is just that lipo cost a bit more, and I personally believe a beginner is probably best to serve his "apprenticeship" on nimh, then later "move up" to lipo.

No lipo grudge here. Maybe I overstated it somewhat, but I was trying to give a fair evaluation of their relative merits (with a beginnners learning curve in mind ) at the same time.

Point is, with lipo a beginner should read the don't list before using them. Trouble with people is, they read the don't list after it stops working to find out why. You could say that electronic speed controller, lipo, and several other RC products (airframes on a first flight?) don't respond well to such treatment.

But you're right...I shouldn't assume that a newbie will not read up on it first. I should try to avoid getting cynical in my old age. :)

[Mindchatter]

I've been flying a T-Rex for almost 2 years and want a BIGGER heli, I'm looking at getting a Raptor .90 in Dec.... I don't do much for 3D flying but I am intrested in mounting a camera system or getting into scale.... Do you guys think I'm doing the wrong thing by jumping right into a .90?

[mjws]

Depending on how serious you are about photography. You may want to consider a gasser. The extra torque and lack of smoke and mess is a pretty big upside when carrying an expensive load.

If you're just going to dabble. The 90 will work well. We've had great success with the nitro. But, the truth is the gasser is far better suited to the task. The new light ones Spectra or Predator can 3d very well should that be you alternative flight mode.

Good Luck,

Mike

[Rudy Ackerman]

I have a Predator Gasser myself. If you looking for a camera ship a Gasser would be the way to go. Great lifting power, 30+ mintues of flight time per tank of fuel, and it will do 3D as well.

A raptor 90 for a camera ship, only about 10 mintues of flight time and lots of smoke that could end up in your photo's depending on the wind that day.

[P-38J-Lightning]

would a large tandem be more stable??? say a chinook?? or a coaxial? how big do those get??

[Rudy Ackerman]

would a large tandem be more stable??? say a chinook

NO Besides the only kits are a small electric by Modelsport and a 50 glow size by Hirobo.

For AP work you want a Gasser.

If you go to www.rotory.com they have a whole AP area.

[oragami]

Electric would be the way to go. Except for flight times, but then again if you are photographing, you would probably be o.k.
A gasser is out of the question. They vibrate more than an adult superstore.
A 90 size heli would work, but vibration and oil makes it a bit challenging. You have to devise a pipe system to carry exhaust to the rear and dump it out there. Yet the fuel challenge isnt that bad in less you are flying inverted or backwards, both which you are not going to be doing.
Power to weight ratio, Cant beat an electric, So much power that it is disgusting. Carrying a load, i am not sure what this would do to the batt and motor temps.
Probably a .90 size nitro would do you right.

[ronmeister]

an adult superstore lol

[Rudy Ackerman]

A gasser is out of the question. They vibrate more than an adult superstore

oragami it's time you put the crack pipe down, Do a search for AP heli's and you will see 95% are gassers, the rest being electric.

As for vibrate, it's all in the setup, just like on a glow helicopter.

[P-38J-Lightning]

AP *AIRPLANES* are electric quite often becuase they can shut off the engine in mid-air to reduce the vibes, the blades on a heli make vibes to. if you want to shut your heli off in mid flight go for it.
Blue Skys
Joel
P.S.
if you do try that make a video, i do like watching things go boom

[mhale71]

we're talking about AP in the 3d flyign section ??? :confused:

AP *AIRPLANES* are electric quite often becuase they can shut off the engine in mid-air to reduce the vibes, the blades on a heli make vibes to. if you want to shut your heli off in mid flight go for it.
Blue Skys
Joel
P.S.
if you do try that make a video, i do like watching things go boom


have you not ever seen an autorotation?, helis glide down great.

as for the origional question, id go electric for all, 3D, AP, drag racing, miros, tandems, indoors, scale jobs, whatever, Electric is the way to go, more power, less bogging, less oil crap everywhere, less tools to lug around all over the place, less noise, and over time the fuel and glowplug costs equal that of a set of battery packs anyway.

mike

[ronmeister]

uh-oh sounds like another fuel vs. electric thread is starting...

[mhale71]

this moved from a talk on 3d to a talk on AP, which ill go with, if you do ap and cant get an electric, get a petrol/gasolene powered, if all else fails, go with a slimy, icky, nitro powered one, pack the camera with heaps of foam.

as for 3d, which is the topic of not only the thread but the forum, i would say electric to someone who learned on electric, and glow to someone who learned on glow, if you move between these , thats just more stuff you have to learn.

otherwise electric.

electrics:
advantages:

more power, less bogging, no engine quit unless something is really wrong, plug and play - as in no starting gear. electric built helis are often better quality and made of better materials like metal and carbonfibre.

electrics:
disadvantages:

battterys, chargers, power supplys are relitavely expensive.
carbonfibre and metal parts are more expensive to replace,

Glow
advantages:

cheaper, lower rpm to raise flight time withotu having to change pinions (unless you have the poptart), fuel and fly, no chargeing except for onboards,

Glow
disadvantages:

noisy, smelly, heavy, less power, oil gets everywhere, fuel built helicopters often require upgrades, the quality is lower, as in the helis tend to fall apart after a few flights, cant fly in as many places, more vibration so not good for holding a camera still, have to lug tools around - starters, fuel bottles, pumps, as opposed to a few battery packs in the pants pocket., have to break in motor, then tune it, then retune it, and again.
have to pay each time you fly it - fuel and glowplug costs, performance requires nitro, like, 25% nitro, which is more $$

mike

mike

[sp1nm0nkey]

Okay... I'm gonna regret getting in on this argument, but here it goes.

"noisy/smelly" True, but some people like the noise/smell

"heavy" Simply not true. Electrics are a good deal heavier because of all the LiPos they have to carry. All the heli pilots I've talked to say an Ion-X is about 75% of a Fury because of all the extra weight it has to carry.

"less power" Maybe, but that gets offset by the weight.

"oil gets everywhere" I can spare 3 minutes to wipe down my helis durring the 30 minutes I take to make sure all the bolts are tight and everything is tuned up and ready to go for the next flight.

"fuel built helicopters often require upgrades" Now... where did THIS one come from?!

"the quality is lower" S'cuse me? You fly an Ion-X, right? That's a Fury with an electric motor. There's no quality difference.

"as in the helis tend to fall apart after a few flights" Huh? Where did this come from? I've never seen a heli come apart unless someone built it wrong.

"cant fly in as many places" True, but I prefer to fly at my local club. If I ever need parts or help or whatever, I can just ask. It's also frequency controled, and there are safety procedures in place. This is purely personal opinion though. Must be nice to fly where ever you want.

"more vibration so not good for holding a camera still" Also true. Nitro helis are pretty much useless for AP.

"starters, fuel bottles, pumps" True, also a bit of a problem. But if I'm carrying around a giant heli, I'll probably have a tool box with me anyways. Fuel is heavy, but a starter isn't.

"then tune it, then retune it, and again." Not really, a good engine will stay fairly in tune.

"have to pay each time you fly it - fuel and glowplug costs" Pay for lipos up front or nitro for the lifespan of the heli.

I'm not against electric, I've got a few electric helis. I just enjoy the experience of nitro, and the power and weight savings that comes with it. If there wasn't a nearby field, or couldn't stand the cleanup of nitro, or wanted something plug and play, and had the money, and didn't mind the extra baggage, I'd probably go electric.

[Norman Greene]

It's interesting how commited we get in this fine hobby.
Trouble is .... we sometimes get infected with a "missionary type zeal" and then we wish to convert other modellers to switch to our own (naturally superior ! ) models.

There's room for everyone here. And every kind of model too.
No need to knock other peoples gear, they use it and it works for them.
As I said in an earlier post .... if you like electric - use electric ....if you prefer engines and glowfuel - use them.
There is no longer a performance difference between the two provided good gear is bought in the first place.

Norman
(who has mainly leccies, but a glow model or two also)

[techguy]

I have both glow and electric helicopters and agree that there is room in this hobby for both. I personally would not get a large electric heli until LIPO technology evolves a bit. It costs way too much [for me] to setup an electric heli and have enough batteries for a day of flying. And there is a risk (no matter how big or small) of damaging the batteries during a crash. Plus I hate babysitting the batteries while they charge. It takes me hours to charge the batteries after a couple hours of flying. I have better things to do.

I keep the size of all of my electric planes and heli's down to where all I need is one 3S pack. As for the sound/smell/mess of nitro, I don't mind the smell, prefer the sound and almost like cleaning it because it makes you look everything over between flights. It only takes 10-15 minutes anyway.

[Robert May]

Having flown Glow Barons, Electric Barons, Concepts, Shuttle RG, ECO 8s, Conquest 50, Vario SkyFox and Scale My next Heli is going to be a 23cc Gasser. An acquaintance uses them for TV quality camera work on building and bridge surveys.

[mjws]

You guys do know that probably 99.9% of commercial AP heli rigs are gas right?

The more power, less bogging, no vibration stuff is garbage.

Gas heli's are clean unlike glow. They have loads of torque. They DO NOT vibrate excessively unless set up poorly. They can be built large and strong to deal well with industrial environments. Unlike electrics that need to be engineered uber light to get reasonable performance.

Try a little reading. Hit the AP Form on runryder, helifreak and rchelispot. You'll find a couple hundred guys that actually do this stuff and make money, instead of a few electric gear heads preaching electrons are best.

Don't get me wrong, a big joker can be a great AP platform. But don't kid yourself. By the time you get to the 45 minutes of run time I can get out of a gasser. You'll have a ton of exotic gear and lipo's under your belt WAY WAY WAY more than a reasonable gasser.

Use the right tool for the job. If you have a HUGE electric and want to strap a camera on... cool. Your costs are already sunk. If a t-rex is all you need...cool. However, if you're serious there are very good reasons why gas dominates this space.

Mike

[techguy]

How well can the gassers perform 3D?

[mjws]

There are some great video's of Henry Caldwell and Curtis Youngblood throwing the gasser's around. In my view they are not quite as nimble as a glow machine as they are just a tad heavier, but they are capable of anything you can throw at them. Gobs of torque and smoothness versus the raw violent power of glow.

Search on Spectra-G and Predator Gasser on the other forums. The performance capable out of the modified motors is pretty spectacular.

Mike