GWS Control Line Park Flyer???

[Mel Duval]

Was talking to a friend about needing to get some new blood into control line and he remarked about the how the R/C Park Flyer craze has brought lots of new people into R/C. I have been bitten similarly and have 6 or 8 of them. Was also thinking about his commment about noise and engine starting. I ended up with a couple GWS Lite Sticks. I threw one together last night and instead of putting a radio in it, I put a bellcrank, a leadout guide and some tip weight. Everything else is stock with the carbon brush motor. Flew it today in spite of the wind. SLOW 6 second laps on 25 feet of line and pretty docile. Ran for about 4 minutes and then I got tired of fighting the wind and tried to pull it in by hand. Dinged it when I grabbed one line instead of two.
Learned several things. For $25 plus the battery (about $15) it would be a pretty good trainer in little to no wind or even indoors in a gym. You need a switch to turn it off or use even smaller batteries. Even better would be to use some replaceable alkaline consumer batteries to get rid of the battery charger. I suspect there are some other airframes that would be fine also. An AND_NOW or something like it would work fine. A 4046 from Electronic Goldmine site for $1 ea which would run super with a couple of MG-1 gears ($4).

GWSCEO, as old C/L flier from way back, what do you think???. Is there is any chance at all of considering something like this? It revolves around production numbers of course, but if it is 90% the same as a high production item, and just involves a small change to the kitting process, maybe it has a chance. Maybe just a change to the instruction sheet the next time it gets updated.

Get a C/L Lite Stick, a bunch of kids and a gym. Lots of fun to be had, CHEAP!! And then you have the potential of new control line or R/C pilots for the future.

I think this would work. Think about a bunch of kids in a gym with a slow, tough, quiet, little plane.

later,
Mel Duval

Real Airplanes have long grey wings and eight engines!

[riverrat]

what about us old kids?

[Mel Duval]

You are right, I was focusing on the young kids too much. A very large percentage of the C/L population is made up of returning fliers from when they were young. Actually, I guess I am an old kid too. I learned to fly C/L as a youngster and went on to R/C. Up through 1/4 scale (still have my Hangar 9 PT-19 with a 120 on it). Now I am facinated with park flyers. Somewhere in between I got back into C/L after 30 years off and can now do most of the maneuvers in the Stunt pattern, just not in the right order and not necessarily good enough for anyone but me to tell what it was! We are lucky enough to have a field that I can fly both C/L and park flyers on and that is 10+ miles away from the closest R/C field. I have found that my C/L flying has helped my R/C flying from a timing standpoint and from being concerned about being too close to the ground inverted. I think some good could come from a unified approach to getting new fliers whether C/L or R/C. C/L is cheap. The only glitches you get are from static between the earphones!! And if you start with a C/L Park Flyer, then you can go either way.

later,
Mel D>

[AirJer]

Mel,

Congratulations.

I had the same idea - just didn't get around to it yet.

Indoor CL should be an excellent way to introduce people to controlled model aviation, with less expense than RC.

Jerry Holcomb

[SamCarter]

A good design to start of with would be the Tiny...at least one of these is flying in New Zealand as c/l. Seems to be loads of fun if a little stressful inside a gym.

Sam

[Fred Bronk]

Moved from parkflyers, with redirect to here! :)

[pval3]

Hey guys,

My Dad and I have flown control line since I was 6, my dad has flown since the 40's and is still competing in CL Racing every season.

I think it appeals to all ages with its elegant simplicity and cost.

I have been toying with electrifying one of the Brodak .15 sized kits with an astro 15 but for even greater simplicity, how about one of the "baby beginner" series from Sterling models with a GWS drive and 6-8 cells. It would scream and do almost anything with that much pull.

This is something that would be appealing to anyone since a GWS DX motor is only what - 25 bucks! Maxcell AAA.s would yield a 20 minute+ flight time and cost less than the price of cox 049...much more torque and 1/1000 less frustration - - and most of all - NO FUEL!

I think this is a realistic idea.

I have an old baby ring master in my closet that is bashed up bt viable, I was saving it for my son to play with but - why not!

Phil

[GWS4CEO]

As you know that GWS make a lot RC airplanes. But, I always wounder ECL should be a great start for new commer pay less while panty of fun!:)

Shall GWS make Control Line Park Flyer???

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/martin_chou/vwp2?.tok=bcPuyYRB5tJhP1H5&.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.dnm=KK.+Lititle+Dragon.jpg&.src=ph

This was an old CL design of me about more than 30 years ago.
R/C Groups Discussion > Special Interest > Control Line > KK Little Dragon
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109575

She 's a .15, but may be could be redesigned to a samller size for electric version.:)

[Airborne 2007]

I'd be interested if GWS made an electric control line.

[Mel Duval]

Interesting to see this. Very good timing, too. It turns out that JMP is building an ESC timer that will work VERY well for electric control line. His screen name is JMPBlackfoot and the design looks very good so far. It will time out at a user adjustable time and even "burp" a couple of times to let you know it is about to shut off. Not sure of the pricing, but I believe the prototypes are around $25. Now, put this on a Slow Stick, and you have a GREAT indoor C/L trainer for about $65 or so.

later,
Mel D.

[JMP_blackfoot]

JMP is building an ESC timer....

To avoid confusion, I have developed a timer which plugs into and drives a regular R/C ESC (BEC type). This allows for control of any type motor, big, small, brushed or brushless, etc...
There is even the capacity to run the motor at part throttle.
The timer weighs less than a gram and its current drain is under 1/2 mA. It can time up to 1000 seconds in 10 second steps.
Programming and using it is done by a single button.


J.M.Piednoir
JMP

[feathermerchant]

JMP I'm real ly interested in aquiring several of the above timers. How can I contact you?
I sent you a PM yesterday.

[Mark Gund]

Now THERE's the answer to E. free flight! :cool:

[EdM]

This topic has interested me for some time. First thoughts considered power through the lines but the inherent problems and sparks from shorts are too much to deal with. I have been using the SkyStreak electric CL models successfully with the kids in my AeroNuts group. The SkyStreak has no aerobatic capability in which they get interested in a hurry. You need spare props for it as well. The best idea I've come up with is a combination of a magnetic switch and rare earth magnet on a slider that the bell crank can move at a bellcrank limit position. This is controllable by the pilot at any time although the JMP timer is a great, but expensive idea too. Another possibility would be an aux IR setup from one of the toy deals. Using alkaline batteries in a holder would allow many flights without waiting for a recharge. Weight/run time wise, Li-Poly is still the best. Many gyms are restricted to ceiling heights which makes wing overs a caution. We've run into left over fishing monoline drops more than once. With indoor E-CL another introductory powerful tool is at hand, but the cost must be kept down to appropiately fit into youngsters pocket money. EdM from NH

[PLANE FREAK]

Mr. Lin - I think an indoor control line plane that is electric would be a great way to introduce people to flying.

A parkflyer would also be good if it had enough power to over come any wind.

It would be more affordable to let the youngsters learn to fly without Radio Control.

[Stevens AeroModel]

Using GWS parts and an e-spresso airframe we cobbled this together for our last indoor fun-fly. The pilot is Mark C. the elder ;) CL junkie!

And the Video - thanks to Cliff B. for both of these contributions.

www.eflightrc.com/download/video/espcl.mpg

-Bill
Stevens AeroModel

[InTheLift]

To avoid confusion, I have developed a timer which plugs into and drives a regular R/C ESC (BEC type). This allows for control of any type motor, big, small, brushed or brushless, etc...
There is even the capacity to run the motor at part throttle.
The timer weighs less than a gram and its current drain is under 1/2 mA. It can time up to 1000 seconds in 10 second steps.
Programming and using it is done by a single button.


J.M.Piednoir
JMP
Do I understand this correctly...you can set this little device to limit the motor run from 10-1000 seconds? So for an electric c/l model you can use an ordinary esc and program this little device to run for a specified amount of time and then shut off?

[JMP_blackfoot]

Do I understand this correctly...you can set this little device to limit the motor run from 10-1000 seconds? So for an electric c/l model you can use an ordinary esc and program this little device to run for a specified amount of time and then shut off?

Yes, that is exactly the idea. It does in fact a few other things as well, such as optionally sagging the motor a couple of times to warn the pilot 10 seconds before the motor cuts.

[flying4fun]

JMP,
This is exactly what I have been looking for. I have toyed with making electric control line planes, but I had no way to shut the motor off. How can I get one (or make one), and how much? Thanks,

Alex

[InTheLift]

Also interested JMP. Sent you a PM. :)

[david.ingham]

Using GWS parts and an e-spresso airframe we cobbled this together for our last indoor fun-fly.

I have a free flight rubber powered model that flies is a 20 foot room, but I suppose there are often empty gyms, and in exactly the right places to find new prospective modelers.

[feathermerchant]

Guys - I have 2 of the control line timers by JMP and they work great. I have used them on a .35 size stunter, and an .049 size baby clown (indoors).

[Mike1484]

Just think , indoor carrier with GWS Corsair , Zero , and Seafire ( Spitfire ) .

Mike 1484

[mikeainia]

Just think , indoor carrier with GWS Corsair , Zero , and Seafire ( Spitfire ) .

Mike 1484

Tony Naccarato and the Black Sheep Squadron of the Los Angeles area were doing this many years ago - using Guillows kits with brushed electrics.

[Theo coenen]

I already started indoor electric controlline in Januari 2007, 2 movies from that time.

http://www.airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/theoc/indecircel.wmv


http://www.airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/theoc/theoaandelijn.wmv

This winter Salvatore Barille also started indoor electric controlline. He is several times Belgium champion and an international contestor. He can fly the complete competition program with his plane.

http://www.airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/theoc/salvatore%20in%20Zutendaal%201.MOV


http://www.airtoimedia.nl/web/upload/theoc/Salvatore%20in%20Zutendaal%202.MOV

We modified regular shockflyers. The electric motors are normal motors that you can buy. I am using a CC Phoenix 10 controller, and Sal is using a china made controller. As Timer we use a Dutch made timer. Robert-Jan van Popellen designed and made the controllers.

Last weekend a clubmember of our indoor club came in with an electric combat controline model and this also flew perfect.

[ThermalSeeker]

I've given this some thought too but it's still low on the project priority list.
So we have an electric motor, an esc, a timer and some flavor of battery, what happens when the new C/L pilot ends the flight early and the model is nose into the ground while still trying to make full power ? Will the esc protect the motor and electronics ?

Mike

[Theo coenen]

Thanks to the Castle controller and its option propstrike detection the controller stops the motor before it burns...............I do not know how this is with other controllers.

Last monday it proved this when I crashed my plane. No damage to the motor, controller and battery, just the Depron model was total loss. The course off the crash was the ceiling, or better said the light fixtures that where below 7 meters....... linelength is 5 meters, for a normal Gym/sportshal this is good, minimal higth is normally 7 meters, but here the lightfixtures where lower.

[BrianRickman]

Simple solution to protect the electronics from overload during a crash would be to put a fuse between the battery and ESC.

[slipstick]

Unfortunately unless you're very lucky the simple fuse doesn't usually work. It takes too long to blow and by the time it goes the ESC and possibly motor are already dead. I'm sorry to say that I've proved this experimentally :(.

Of course another solution is landing gear to keep the fuselage off the floor but it does add weight and doesn't help in really major crashes ;).

Steve

[ThermalSeeker]

It sounds like the simplest, cheapest, reliable answer is a prop saver...if you don't have the castle esc.

Mike

[GWS4CEO]

Sorry, we delayer so much in many projects, since bad economics... :p

But we will back to this as soon as situation getting better. ;)

[Clancy Arnold]

If you would want to add a throttle to your electric indoor CL model try my U/Tronics Control. All of the fliers using Electric power flying in Navy Carrier use it. You would have control of speed and flight time independant of the battery up to the total capacity of the battery.

Send me an E-mail for more information,

Clancy

[gwinhh]

I did this with a Crazy Max; converted the ailerons into flaps (though I'm not sure how much good it did). Crazy fun in a gym. I carried the Tx in my left hand so I had motor control and didn't have to run to the end of the lines. Old, fat and lazy.

howell