Introducing the Digital Power Recorder (DPR), In-Flight Data Recorder.

[Bret]

After many months of research and development, BNB Products is very excited and pleased to announce the new Digital Power Recorder (DPR). The DPR is a very small and lightweight device (about the size of two quarters) that allows you to track and record all the power and temperature readings of your R/C craft during actual use! After the data has been recorded, you can upload the data to your computer and graph all the data with the powerful DPR-Graph software included with each package. We currently have two models available: the DPR-50 (50 Amp max) and the DPR-100 (100 Amp max).
You can find out more, and order the DPR at
www.bnbproducts.com .
You can also download the DPR manual and the graphing software with two sample missions on the site.

To get the ball rolling, we are offering a FREE TMP-2 (dual temperature probe - $14.95 value) through Friday 6/3/05 with each order of at least one DPR unit! To receive the FREE TMP-2, key in the words "RCGROUPS FREE TMP-2" in the comment box when ordering. We will include the FREE TMP-2 with your DPR order!

Our inventory is currently very limited, so there is a chance we will sell out before inventories are replenished. If this occurs before the promotion date expires, we will still honor the free TMP-2 for orders that are placed before 6/3/05.

Some of the DPR features include:
Very small: 1.2 inches X 1.6 inches
Very lightweight: Approximately .9 ounces (25 grams)
Accepts wide range of Voltage inputs: 7 to 30 Volts
Digitally records up to 9+ hours of mission data

Records and Graphs:
Current draw up to 50 Amps
(up to 100 Amps with the DPR-100)
Battery Voltage from 7 to 30 Volts
Power output up to 1500 watts
(up to 3000 watts with the DPR-100)
Amount of charge used
Battery efficiency (Voltage drop under load)
Elapsed time of each mission
Temperatures of two independant temperature probes
(Dual Temperature probes are sold seperately)

Configurable:
Data sampling rate
Recording trigger
Channels to record
Computer graph displays with the DPR-Graph software
Recording resolution

Very easy to set up and use!

Each DPR package includes:
Digital Power Recorder (DPR-50, or DPR-100)
3-foot USB-A to mini-B interface cable
CD-ROM with powerful graphing software, USB driver support, and digital version of manual
Hard copy of manual

System requirements:
PC with one of the following operation systems:
Windows 2000 or Windows XP
CD-ROM drive (or acces to the internet)
Available USB port
2 megabytes of hard drive space

Our goal is to provide the best products and service possible. Please contact us with any questions, comments, or concerns....WE WANT TO KNOW!
support@bnbproducts.com
www.bnbproducts.com

[davidsons]

Thanks for the great new product Bret!

One thing that I already found by using the DPR is that my newly purchased Eflite 20 amp esc did not go into LVC when the voltage went below 9 amps on my 3 cell lipo which concerns me. I plan to go back over the directions on the esc and re test it a couple of times and if the LVC still does not work then I will contact Eflite to find out what the problem is. I bought this esc because I needed to support 16 amps cont. but found that I could save some money buying the Eflite 20 instead of a CC 25. CC is great but as much as I purchase, if I can save money here and there it adds up so I thought I would give it a try and see how well it works. Other than the LVC problem, it seems to work well! Here's the flight data from the mission where the LVC did not work.

Thanks again!

Steve

[BEC]

Does this software REALLY require Win2K or XP, or will it run on 98SE?

If not, instead have you tested it to run under Virtual PC on Mac OS X (running Win XP)?

My home Windoze box is 98SE and they would take a dim view of me loading the SW here at work (Win 2K). I do have VPC 7.0 with Win XP at home for my Macs, but have not yet installed it.....

[Bret]

The software may load and run on operating systems other than Windows 2000 and XP, but unfortunatley the USB driver support files will only work with 2000 or XP. We hope that sometime in the future we can overcome this if it becomes a large issue. We have not tested the USB compatability with Virtual PC on Mac OS X (Windows XP). This is something we will definitely look unto.
Thanks for the suggestion!

Bret

[Bret]

We would like to thank all of the people at R/C Groups! We have had a wonderful startup thanks to you. Our inventory levels are already running short! We currently have only 5 DPR-50s and 7 DPR-100s in stock. We will be working on getting our next batch of 200 units prepared for future orders. It may take a couple of weeks to get them all completed. If you order, and we are out of stock, we will notify you and give you the option of a refund or waiting for us to replinish the inventories. If we run out of stock, we will honor the Free TMP-2 dual temperature probe promotion for orders received through 6/3/05.

Thank you again,
Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[roccobro]

Sounds great but I missed the free temp time frame. :( Maybe next time.
I sure wish this was posted in the EDF forums. Really useful tool.

Justin

[mjdoz]

Well 5 are on their way to the land of OZ so we will see how they go down under. Looking forward to seeing what is really happening in the air.

Thanks Bret for your prompt response and shipment - the USPS tracking is neat

-> ACCEPTANCE, June 06, 2005, 10:08 am, ALLEN, TX 75013

Michael

[rcplaneguy]

Darn it, I did not see this till now. Missed the temperature probe offer :-(

[roccobro]

Yep, I'm gonna wait for the next version or offer. I don't really have the funds now (do we ever?) but will be ready to pay the next time.

Justin

[Bret]

Since our first promotion was so successful, we have decided to begin another one!

For a limited time, we are offering a FREE TMP-LED probe with all DPR orders ($14.95 value)!

The TMP-LED includes a temperature probe and a super-bright red LED probe. The temperature probe allows the DPR to record and graph temperature readings, and the LED probe can be set to alert you of Voltage, Current, and temperature levels you can set through the DPR-graph software.

The website has been updated on the "Purchase" page.
Simply key in "Free TMP-LED promotion" in the comments box when placing a DPR order and we will include the TMP-LED with the order!

We have also updated our website to now include orders outside of the continental US!

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com
bret@bnbproducts.com

[Harley]

Bret,

I just had a chance to use DPR-100 for the first time.

I am extremely pleased with the simplicity of installation and use.
Everything worked without any issues at all.

The graphing software is also excellent and allows you to view the data in enough different ways, that it is quite easy to draw the necessary conclusions from the results.

I do have a simple suggestion for displaying the graphs, however,
I would like a set of buttons avail on the main screen to select which parameters that I want to view. I tend to flip back and forth between many of them and having to go to a menu and then select from another window is an extra step that could easily be eliminated.

And my original request to you (in my earlier email to you) remains...
There are a large group of us at our field (and I a sure the same exists across the country) that would like to see HIGHER VOLTAGE capability.
We fly a lot of 8S to 10S aircraft and this is an area where we REALLY need the type of data that your product is designed for.

Is there a reasonable possibility of bringing out a higher voltage version that would work with 8S to 10S lipoy systems?

Thanks for doing a great job on a much needed product!

Harley

[Harley]

Bret,

Really getting a lot of excellent use out of the DPR-100, but we have run into one more issue...

We have a need to export the data into Excel or a database....
Do you have an export tool or file conversion utility that we could use in order to make better use of the data files in our testing...

The graphing system you provide is excellent but we would like like to do some comparison graphing and charting and spreadsheeting and there seems to be no provision for use the data outside of the existing program.

Any assistance on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and regards,
Harley Licht

[Bret]

Harley,
Thanks for the input!

We are currently working on software updates to the DPR-Graph software, and we plan to update the "downloads" page soon on our website with the updated version (hopefully within a week or so).

Current updates should include...

Ability to save mission data and open with other software (such as Excel).

Ability to save only the current mission being viewed (instead of all missions together).

Ability to toggle on/off what is being graphed (Voltage, Current, Power, Temp, etc.) by clicking on the title in the legend (instead of having to open the "display parameters" window.

We will notify everyone when we update the software on the site.

Thanks,
Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[Harley]

Bret,

That is great.
Just what we are looking for..

Thanks for being so responsive.

Harley

[mjdoz]

I have received (or will if my wife picks them up from the post office) 5 DPR-50 units here in the land of OZ. Details of the trip below. Thanks to Bret they are here 7 business days later (Monday was a Public Holiday in Australia).

Sadly the list does not show the $60 added by the Australian government on the way through - sometimes you win sometimes you loose. :o

Anybody in Brisbane who is interested in seeing one of these units I should be at indoor at Redbank tomorrow night all going well and sorry but they all have homes already.

Michael

First Delivery attempt 09:00 am June 15, 2005
cleared customs in AUSTRALIA at 10:46 pm on June 14, 2005.
ARRIVED ABROAD, AUSTRALIA, June 10, 2005, 9:53 am
INTO FOREIGN CUSTOMS, AUSTRALIA, June 10, 2005, 9:53 am
INTERNATIONAL DISPATCH, Chicago (O'Hare) AMC, June 07, 2005, 9:29 pm
ENROUTE, June 07, 2005, 9:27 pm, AMF OHARE, IL 60666
ENROUTE, June 06, 2005, 5:16 pm, COPPELL, TX 75099
ACCEPTANCE, June 06, 2005, 10:08 am, ALLEN, TX 75013

Note Bret is 15 hours behind Brisbane time wise and 13,315 km away.

[JustGoFly]

I have my DPR-50 and have been doing field analysis instead of stuck inside doing bench tests. I really like how it shows the mah used of the battery and enables you to learn how your battery is used during flight and how efficient your battery is. The software is extremely easy to use and the product is a work horse. Once I saw it - I had to sign up as a dealer immediately. Bret - great products !

I've got a short video that show off your product - I ran my Formosa really hard and it was a total blast. See the link at the bottom of my JustGoFly Link:
http://www.justgofly.com/Tech_DPR.htm

Vinnie

[Morb]

Vinnie,

Do you have a link to BNBProducts .. be nice to see price, etc.

Geof.
www.smoothair.ca

[mjdoz]

Geof

www.bnbproducts.com

From the first post

[Bret]

We would like to thank JustGoFly for offering the DPR on their web site! They have done a wonderful job presenting the details of the DPR.
Be sure to take a look at all of the great products they offer at www.justgofly.com .

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[JustGoFly]

Bret,

Thanks for the kind words. No doubt your product is a very cool new innovation. I've been using it on the bench to capture test results and running it in a variety of planes that I'm sure are over propped - but one of my jobs is to try and burn up motors. Fortunately I can do that without worrying about your product burning up.

I noticed you added a cool flashing of the LED to inform someone out at the field how full the data log is. Very cool idea ! I've started bringing my laptop to the field and passing around the DVR-50 to let others test their setups. We are all learning what works and where the sweet spots are.

Keep up the great innovations !

Vinnie

[mjdoz]

Maybe I should have read the manual - what flashing sequence Vinnie?

Having a lot of fun with the units down under as well. I have managed to hitch a ride on 4 other models as well. Lots of fune - and I do take the note book when I am flying.

Michael

[badcockr]

Bret,

Any news on the export function for the data?

If not would you be able to fill in the 'blanks' on the data format and structure that I have already worked out? (details here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3880558&postcount=55) and here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3884084&postcount=58)) - that way I can code my own routines for what I want.

Regards,

Rod

[Bret]

Bret,

Any news on the export function for the data?

If not would you be able to fill in the 'blanks' on the data format and structure that I have already worked out? (details here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3880558&postcount=55) and here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3884084&postcount=58)) - that way I can code my own routines for what I want.

Regards,

Rod

We have completed the Beta version of the DPR-Graph 1.01. We have emailed the new Beta version to three people (including Rod). Our hope is that they try out the new software and keep us posted on any issues or suggestions. We will post the new version on our website for download as soon as we feel all the necessary changes have been made.
The current upgrades include...
Ability to save missions as Tab Delimited files (can be opened in Excel).
Ability to save individual missions from a group of recorded missions.
Ability to toggle the graphed items on/off by clicking on the item in the legend.
Ability to view Voltage "Doubled".

We have received several requests of being able to record setups higher than 30 Volts. A maximum of 30 Volts can be connected directly to the DPR, but by wiring the DPR as the PDF attachment shows. It will record half the total Voltage and the full current load. The "Doubled" Voltage option will compensate for this.

[badcockr]

We have completed the Beta version of the DPR-Graph 1.01. We have emailed the new Beta version to three people (including Rod).
The current upgrades include...
Ability to save missions as Tab Delimited files (can be opened in Excel).
Ability to save individual missions from a group of recorded missions.
Ability to toggle the graphed items on/off by clicking on the item in the legend.
Ability to view Voltage "Doubled".

Well the new features work for me!

They cover what I need to do; most of which is in post-processing for comparison with static measurements of torque/power and thrust. The beta software hasn't caused any new bugs and I'm running it routinely.

The interesting finding as a result of using the unit is that my small diameter 'speed' (high P/D) props do not unload in air as I had expected - in-flight broadly similar to my static measurements (+/- 5%).

As a result the DPR has become a key piece of 'kit' for maiden flights and checking new prop / motor combinations.

...... now when will a version for 6-10S LiPo be available? :D

Rod

[Harley]

Well the new features work for me!

They cover what I need to do; most of which is in post-processing for comparison with static measurements of torque/power and thrust. The beta software hasn't caused any new bugs and I'm running it routinely.

The interesting finding as a result of using the unit is that my small diameter 'speed' (high P/D) props do not unload in air as I had expected - in-flight broadly similar to my static measurements (+/- 5%).

As a result the DPR has become a key piece of 'kit' for maiden flights and checking new prop / motor combinations.

...... now when will a version for 6-10S LiPo be available? :D

Rod

Rod,

I have also been testing the beta version and it is working very well for me as well..

You may already be aware of this, but with the new Beta version of the software, you do NOT need a special version for 6S to 10S if you are using two batts in serial to achieve the higher voltage. I regularly fly 10S3P setups with two 5S3P Thunder Power Prolites. I simply put the DPR in series with ONE of the batts. That will read Half the voltage and all the current. Then download the file to the DPR software on your PC, and hit the "2X voltage" button. Now the software will double the voltage in the graph presentations and calculated data, and you have your final readings.
Note, however, that this will ONLY work for equal size batteries in Series.

ie.
it will work for 6S configured as 2 each 3S packs
it will work for 8S configured as 2 each 4S packs
it will work for 10S configured as 2 each 5S packs
it will work for 12S configured as 2 each 6S packs.

IT WILL NOT WORK for 7S and 9S packs as the series batteries will not be of equal size.

So this fixes the problem for a large numbe of cases, but not all.

It also will NOT work for a single 8, 9 or 10S pack..

Bottom line, I have been using the DPR almost daily and it has become a
standard part of all of my test proceedures.
The only problem that I have is that everyone at the field always wants to borrow it for their planes. I may have to get a second one as a loaner.

BTW, Bret posted the diagram that we he and I discussed for doing the large packs. It is in a .pdf file, just a few posts back.

Harley

[badcockr]

<snip>
I have also been testing the beta version and it is working very well for me as well..
<snip>
You may already be aware of this, but with the new Beta version of the software, you do NOT need a special version for 6S to 10S if you are using two batts in serial to achieve the higher voltage.
<snip>
The only problem that I have is that everyone at the field always wants to borrow it for their planes. I may have to get a second one as a loaner.

Yep I knew that; it covers most cases. But as a change for the future (especially with bigger, higher power motors coming along) to have a shunt and voltage handling that could handle it directly would be nice.

All I can say about eveyone else borrowing the unit at the field .... LOL!

Rod

[mithrandir]

Should I interpret the absence of a phone number on your website to mean that you just want people to look at the web pages, order a unit and you NEVER speak with them? EVERY TIME I don't find a phone number easily, I assume the seller does NOT want to talk with me.... If this is the case..... carry on...
if this is not the case.... you should make a phone number available, and then have someone there to answer it and not just let us languish in voice mail H3LL!!!!

Regards
mith

[Bret]

Should I interpret the absence of a phone number on your website to mean that you just want people to look at the web pages, order a unit and you NEVER speak with them? EVERY TIME I don't find a phone number easily, I assume the seller does NOT want to talk with me....
If this is the case..... carry on...
if this is not the case.... you should make a phone number available, and then have someone there to answer it and not just let us languish in voice mail H3LL!!!!

Regards
mith

Mith,
I apologize for any inconvenience. At the current time, we find that email is the most effective and effecient way of communication to inquiries. Our goal is to offer a great product along with great customer service. If you have any questions, comments or concerns, please email us and we will promply reply.
Our email address is support@bnbproducts.com ,
or you can email me directly at bret@bnbproducts.com .

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[roccobro]

Mith- I see what your saying. But I had a great experience the other night. I ordered some Lipos from CBP the other day and the next night I realized I needed to add more packs to my order....at 11pm! I shot Mike an e-mail (wouldn't dare calling at that time of night) and he had added, re-invoiced- and answered my request all before I even woke up in the morning! I can only judge by how quickly support has come in this thread from Bret that an e-mail would brobably be answered even faster. Some questions are just FAQ's and detailed *written* explainations would be more beneficial for both parties than a phone conversation.

Just my $.02. :) I have yet to order my logger yet.

Justin

[Hilde]

Bret,

It sounds like the beta has gone well on the new 1.01 SW; can you update us on a release?

Hilde

[Bret]

Everything looks good for the 1.01 software upgrades. Hopefully, we will be able to post the updated manual and software on our site next week.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[mithrandir]

Emails can indeed be efficient... so can phone calls...
Be sure, I am not the only one to feel this way. I will not purchase products from a company with no means of PERSONALLY speaking with some one.
Your product may be excellent.. sounds like it is, but there are other excellent products and the importer/manufacturer/distributer includes a phone number...
You have your policy, I have mine....

[davidsons]

mith

Why don't you try emailing your phone number asking Bret to give you a call! Or better yet, ask your questions here in this thread so others can benefit from the knowledge shared! And a question for you mith. Are you telling us that it's your policy to make a phone call to every supplier you would like to purchase from before you actually purchase just to insure that a REAL person will actually answer your call?

[badcockr]

mith,

I can give you plenty of examples where the company had a phone but were intent on ripping you off - you only have to look at the 'Ansa Victims Support Group' for proof of that. I usually look carefully myself before ordering; the fact that they take Paypal is a vetting of the company and security for you as a buyer!

With E-flight technology moving at the pace it is the new developments are only coming in with new companies; many of which are building the business on a shoestring and need to keep the overheads down in order to make a living. This will often mean they have no 'live' staffing. The fact they have gone through the Paypal vetting and agreed to their policies shows they are doing things 'the right way'.

At the end of the day the choice is yours as a buyer - just don't complain when you find that your cosy model shop is still 2 years behind the times. Although you can take comfort that you can talk to someone!

Rod

[mithrandir]

mith

...............And a question for you mith. Are you telling us that it's your policy to make a phone call to every supplier you would like to purchase from before you actually purchase just to insure that a REAL person will actually answer your call?

YES.... I VERIFY ACCESSABILITY ALWAYS!

Ever get stuck in a phone system menu? Of course you have! I HATE THAT!!!I simply would like to have the ability to talk directly with someone who is there, and knows the product, can make decisions and can give me a sense of what the professional environment is like.... I realize that this does not guarantee I won't get shafted... but it is better then nothing....

I call CHP... CHIP answers the phone... I call Hacker-Brushless... Josh, or Chris, or Sean answer the phone. I call DA... I can actually talk with Dave...
I call esprit, I talk with ZB.. The list goes on....

c'mon you guys... This thread is kinda gettin' side tracked... I apologize for not bringing this up in another thread... I thought that if I posted one time, then the operators of the business which is the subject of this thread would think to themselves... "Oh yeah... a phone number... what a great idea, lets put it on our web site"... they have apparently decided not to go this route... OK... no prob... I am interested in a product such as they have, but they have their policy and I have mine....
I am not suggesting anyone else should think like I do, (although I bet some do already)... but if you feel comfort buying under such an arrangement, please... feel free... really I have no hard feelings... I love all you guys!! Remember... we are all RC Dorks together and it is all fun... if it flies... I love it... even if it is a flying hydro!! LOL


really... no sour grapes here!!! it is all good!!!

[davidsons]

No sour grapes....then why you yelling? "YES.... I VERIFY ACCESSABILITY ALWAYS!"

I still think you should send Bret an email with your number and let him call you and then the two of you can discuss your issues and he can discuss with you why he has no phone number on his website and you might just find some understanding and realize that it's really no big deal and hopefully for Bret he will be as large as the other companies you mentioned. Bret has a great product, the desire to make this business work and to top it off he's a great person who is not out to screw anyone! I think you're the one that redirected this thread in a sidetracked direction when all you had to do was send a simple email and get a reply in a very timely manner! I challenge you to send him an email and then let us know how well he responds to you!

And...I like to think of myself as a RC junkie, not a RC Dork! :D

[badcockr]

I am not suggesting anyone else should think like I do, (although I bet some do already)... but if you feel comfort buying under such an arrangement, please... feel free... really I have no hard feelings... I love all you guys!! Remember... we are all RC Dorks together and it is all fun... if it flies... I love it... even if it is a flying hydro!! LOL

really... no sour grapes here!!! it is all good!!!

Good man!

I'm sure that with the product quality and service Bret will get fully established (creates some decent revenue) then the phone line will appear. .... until then we wait until he can support the overheads; from the sounds of it you'll be back then.

In the meantime we'll get you chomping at the bit with our quality in-flight data :D

In all seriousness I can respect your policy; everyone develops their own way of sifting the on-line companies - I have mine and you have yours and both seem to work.

Rod

[roccobro]

Mith, You and I are one and the same kind of RC Dork! I think this conversation has kept the thread where it belongs...at the top!

Bring it on Bret!

Justin

[mithrandir]

Sorry guys... no yelling here....

Bret... sorry dude.. I have side tracked your thread...

Tell us more about your system.... how would I employ your system to monitor a 10S setup? Could I put it in with a parallel shunt? (Splitting the current?) Or is it voltage limited? (Maybe just grab 5 of the first 10 LiPo's?)
Do you provide information regarding the most tell-tale places to put a thermo-couple on something like a Hacker C50 14XL? Is there a way to integrate the output into the ESC to do an engine shut down if a thermal event occurs? Or to immediately alert the user to the thermal event happening? Is there an easy means of downlinking the data? (Like thru HAM TV?) ... Do you plan to provide in the future a Downlink? with some sort of real time monitoring capability on the ground. Can more then 1 unit be employed with some way to sync the clocks between the 2? (If I need more channels of data capture)... Can the memory be expanded? Maybe a CF card? (After all FUTABA did it with the 14MZ)..... Is there some way to capture "Commanded throttle position" and correlate to RPM's? (This could assist in programming a throttle curve within the Tx to get a more linear throttle feel).... What are your future growth options for this system? More channels? More available data volume (Longer data capture/memory)... What are the failure modes... if it "Poofs", do I loose my power system? Are there protections I can employ to reduce the risk/mitigate failure? Fuses? What is the warrenty? Is there any way this device can put my Batteries/ESC/Motor at risk? Will the manufacturer of my Batteries/ESC/Motor void his warrenty as a result of your product even being present in the event of a failure? Are there additional fire risks with the application of your device? Should I employ some means of a passive fire suppression system? (Yes they exist and can weigh very little!!)... How many units have you made and have you tracked MTBCF's?... (If this is early in the production run, and you have little data... that is OK.. as long as I know what the maturity of the product is and can properly consider the risks)...
Bret... I love the fact that this product exists!!! I will employ one of these devices (or similar) in order to mitigate risk, and assist with any kind of diagnosis after the fact....

regards
mith

ps... you oughta have a phone number on your web site

[ebill3]

Does exactly what is advertised.
Prompt shipping, well packaged, very reasonable S&H.
Happy as a clam - for me, a great product.

Bill

[JohnM]

Does exactly what is advertised.
Prompt shipping, well packaged, very reasonable S&H.
Happy as a clam - for me, a great product.

Bill


I agree! I am very happy with my DPR-50. I think it is a great product and one that has long since been needed. I wish I had one of these years ago. I have tied my wattmeter to my helis in the past and tried to view the display in flight. Not a very safe method of getting in-flight data!


John

[Bret]

Sorry guys... no yelling here....

Bret... sorry dude.. I have side tracked your thread...

Tell us more about your system.... how would I employ your system to monitor a 10S setup? Could I put it in with a parallel shunt? (Splitting the current?) Or is it voltage limited? (Maybe just grab 5 of the first 10 LiPo's?)
Do you provide information regarding the most tell-tale places to put a thermo-couple on something like a Hacker C50 14XL? Is there a way to integrate the output into the ESC to do an engine shut down if a thermal event occurs? Or to immediately alert the user to the thermal event happening? Is there an easy means of downlinking the data? (Like thru HAM TV?) ... Do you plan to provide in the future a Downlink? with some sort of real time monitoring capability on the ground. Can more then 1 unit be employed with some way to sync the clocks between the 2? (If I need more channels of data capture)... Can the memory be expanded? Maybe a CF card? (After all FUTABA did it with the 14MZ)..... Is there some way to capture "Commanded throttle position" and correlate to RPM's? (This could assist in programming a throttle curve within the Tx to get a more linear throttle feel).... What are your future growth options for this system? More channels? More available data volume (Longer data capture/memory)... What are the failure modes... if it "Poofs", do I loose my power system? Are there protections I can employ to reduce the risk/mitigate failure? Fuses? What is the warrenty? Is there any way this device can put my Batteries/ESC/Motor at risk? Will the manufacturer of my Batteries/ESC/Motor void his warrenty as a result of your product even being present in the event of a failure? Are there additional fire risks with the application of your device? Should I employ some means of a passive fire suppression system? (Yes they exist and can weigh very little!!)... How many units have you made and have you tracked MTBCF's?... (If this is early in the production run, and you have little data... that is OK.. as long as I know what the maturity of the product is and can properly consider the risks)...
Bret... I love the fact that this product exists!!! I will employ one of these devices (or similar) in order to mitigate risk, and assist with any kind of diagnosis after the fact....

regards
mith

ps... you oughta have a phone number on your web site

Generally, we suggest downloading the DPR user manual at http://www.bnbproducts.com/pages/downloads.htm .

For 10s, try 5s + 5s (using "Y" cable) as shown in the PDF file on post #23. The thermo-coupler placing is up to you. Be sure to properly secure and keep all wiring from becoming entangled. This is described in the TMP-2 and TMP-LED manuals. Sorry, but we are not experienced directly with the c50 14XL. There is no means to shut down the ESC. However, you might use the TMP-LED to alert you of (high current / high temperature / low Voltage). There is no downlink means currently. We will consider this option for future versions. Future versions may also have 2x the recording memory for longer recording times. We will also consider a CF type card. Current version does not capture servo information or prop speed. These will be considered in future versions. The DPR will never compromize your ESC/radio. You must consult your battery/ESC/Motor manufacturers as to their warranty with respect to our product. The DPR uses high quality, low resistance silicone jacketed wire for low power loss (extremely low fire risk). The current sense shunt has 0.0001 ohms resistance and is rated at over 200 Amps continuous. The current shunt dissipates a max of 1 watt at 100 continuous Amps. If you make good solder connections to the DPR, it adds no additional fire risks to your ESC/radio. Fire suppression is your choice.

The DPR has been for sale to the public for about 6 weeks.

Hope this helps.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[hybris]

I have been flying electrics for about 3 years. This is a great addition. Just last weekend I was wondering exactly how much my Banchee was drawing in flight. My 3s2p Apogee 4960 was getting quit hot. I just ordered a DPR. Now I will know. Great.

[roccobro]

I am working in more flying so I can justify it to the wifey. In-flight stuff isn't any good if there is no flight!

Justin

[hybris]

Hmm, I just went through the down loadable manual and noticed that I will only go down to 7 volts. This is kind of a shame since my 2 cell applications go down to 6 volts. What I don't understand, is that it says it can be powered by the USB port and go down to 0 volts. USB is only 5 volts. So why can't it run on batteries down to 5 volts.

[Bret]

Hmm, I just went through the down loadable manual and noticed that I will only go down to 7 volts. This is kind of a shame since my 2 cell applications go down to 6 volts. What I don't understand, is that it says it can be powered by the USB port and go down to 0 volts. USB is only 5 volts. So why can't it run on batteries down to 5 volts.

When the DPR is powered through a battery source, the 5 Volts needed for the microcontroller are regulated by a Voltage regulator. When the unit is powered by the computer USB port, it is able to bipass the regulator and utilize the 5 Volts directly. The Voltage regulator needs a minimum of 7 Volts in to insure the 5 Volts out.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[hybris]

When the DPR is powered through a battery source, the 5 Volts needed for the microcontroller are regulated by a Voltage regulator. When the unit is powered by the computer USB port, it is able to bipass the regulator and utilize the 5 Volts directly. The Voltage regulator needs a minimum of 7 Volts in to insure the 5 Volts out.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com


Too bad. I guess you will just have to make a smaller, lower voltage, less expensive :D version for park flyers. I can't wait to get my 100A version though.

[roccobro]

Too bad. I guess you will just have to make a smaller, lower voltage, less expensive :D version for park flyers. I can't wait to get my 100A version though.


Here here! That would always be nice.

Justin

[mjdoz]

Or maybe we can power it from the ESC 5V BEC. Anybody else interested in voiding their warranty?

Have the same problem wityh all my 2S stuff. I have also noticed that it will drop out even on 3S when LVC is tripped even though the graph shows volatges between 8.8 and 9.0 at mission end. Still looking into the issue to see what is causing it.

Michael

[Bret]

Or maybe we can power it from the ESC 5V BEC. Anybody else interested in voiding their warranty?

Have the same problem wityh all my 2S stuff. I have also noticed that it will drop out even on 3S when LVC is tripped even though the graph shows volatges between 8.8 and 9.0 at mission end. Still looking into the issue to see what is causing it.

Michael

That is a great idea, but we have already considered it.
Unfortunately, it will not work with the current firmware. The way the microprocessor is created, it expects a computer "hand shake" through the USB connection when it is getting the power through the connection. This is not something we planned, rather the way the chip is designed. We do understand there is a need for the DPR to work to 6 Volts. After we complete the new software and manual upgrades (HOPEFULLY BY TOMORROW), we will put more thought into the 6 Volt minimum possibilities.

We definitely like to here the suggestions though!

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[Bret]

I have also noticed that it will drop out even on 3S when LVC is tripped even though the graph shows volatges between 8.8 and 9.0 at mission end. Still looking into the issue to see what is causing it.

Michael

The DPR should continue to record down to approximately 7 Volts. 8.8 is a high level for it to stop recording. You might try setting the sample rate as high as possible to still give you enough time to discharge the battery so you will be able to record more data. Maybe it will show that you ARE actually dropping down to around 7 Volts, but it is very fast. I would also be interested to know if you are using a brushed motor.

Thanks,
Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[Harry D]

We definitely like to here the suggestions though!
Well, since you asked...

I sent this to you by email a few days ago, but in case you didn't see it, here it is again:

Would it be practical to provide a second Y axis, with a different scale? I'm thinking here about a situation where one trace (such as the voltage of a lipo pack) might vary by perhaps 3 units or so, and this is plotted on a scale that may be something like 0 to 150 or more (established by another parameter such as temperature). So it's hard to see the voltage trace details with any accuracy. Even with those parameters removed, the Y scale is still pretty large for something like voltage. I've used the "Time Specific Statistics" feature, and it works well, but it's not the same as being able to see a continuous trace.

Alternatively, would it be possible to allow the user to manually set the max and min values on the Y axis? Or maybe have a "zoom" feature, similar to the one there is for the X axis?

I understand that a revised version of the software will allow export to Excel, so most of the things mentioned above could be done in that. But your present graphing software is so slick, convenient, and easy to use that it would sure be nice to be able to do it there instead of having to export to Excel.

Thanks for a great product!

Harry

[Bret]

Well, since you asked...

I sent this to you by email a few days ago, but in case you didn't see it, here it is again:

Would it be practical to provide a second Y axis, with a different scale? I'm thinking here about a situation where one trace (such as the voltage of a lipo pack) might vary by perhaps 3 units or so, and this is plotted on a scale that may be something like 0 to 150 or more (established by another parameter such as temperature). So it's hard to see the voltage trace details with any accuracy. Even with those parameters removed, the Y scale is still pretty large for something like voltage. I've used the "Time Specific Statistics" feature, and it works well, but it's not the same as being able to see a continuous trace.

Alternatively, would it be possible to allow the user to manually set the max and min values on the Y axis? Or maybe have a "zoom" feature, similar to the one there is for the X axis?

I understand that a revised version of the software will allow export to Excel, so most of the things mentioned above could be done in that. But your present graphing software is so slick, convenient, and easy to use that it would sure be nice to be able to do it there instead of having to export to Excel.

Thanks for a great product!

Harry

Harry,

Please clearify this question.
"Would it be practical to provide a second Y axis, with a different scale?"

As for the vertical zoom, that is a good idea. We will consider that for the next beta release.

Thanks for the suggestions,
Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[Bret]

We have posted the new DPR-Graph 1.01 software and manual upgrades on our web site for downloads here...

www.bnbproducts.com/pages/downloads.htm


Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[roccobro]

Man, that is service....

Justin

[mjdoz]

Neat - it works with the old files as well. Lots of playing to do now.

So if I plug the DPR into the notebook then connect the battery & unplug the note book and see if that will keep it running below 7 volts ......

Or I can just wait for the new software .....

Keep up the good work Bret

Michael

All my motors ar Brushless and most of my ESC's are CC PHX units. The ones I have seen the drop out on are CC PHX 25's on 3S running either a Mega 15/16/5 or AXI 2212/26. Cutoff on the4 mega is hard and on the axi is soft.

Still lookinhg to see what is really happening.

[i8urls6]

I just recieved my DPR-50 and I love it. Very user friendly. I still crave one tuning ability though, that would be the ability to monitor rpm. It would take your product to the next level, and I know heli guys like me would find it to be invaluable.

Keep up the great work Bret

Jon

[davidsons]

yes please...in flight rpm recording!

[ebill3]

RPM recording would indeed be great.

How do you get it? Understand optical can do it, but that is a bit awkward.
Hall effect on one or more brushless motor wires? I don't know, I'm asking.

Bill

[FRAMEDNLVS]

gone fishing

[FRAMEDNLVS]

gone fishing

[Harry D]

Harry,

Please clearify this question.
"Would it be practical to provide a second Y axis, with a different scale?"

Bret, this may be best clarified by a simple example. Please take a look at the two graphs below. These both show the same data (from your sample file, exported to Excel).

In the first graph, with the normal single Y-axis showing everything (temperature and voltage in this case) it's hard to see what the voltage is doing.

In the second one, voltage is shown on its own axis, on the right side of the graph. Because the scale can be different, the voltage variations (in this example) can be much more accurately seen.

This is maybe not a great example but I think it illustrates what I was getting at. It was just a suggestion for your consideration - it may be complicating things too much.

Thanks for the software upgrade - the Excel export feature is particularly useful. I find the time format used is a bit weird, but easy enough to work around.

Harry

[FRAMEDNLVS]

gone fishing

[FRAMEDNLVS]

gone fishing

[WilliamSettle]

Bret,

Another option you may want to consider is a "seconds per sample" feature. Using the DPR, I found a NiCad pack that has an imbalance it in so I put in on a trickle charger at 1/20C in an attempt to rebalance the pack. I would love to be able to use the DPR if it would sample slow enough to get 24 hours of recorded data.

This would keep me from having to break out the DVM and manually monitor the voltage.

This is a pretty neat little tool.

Bill

[learner]

i have just brought a dpr-50 but a tutorial on how to read the the output ie the graph what it means would be great as im still learning and want to get the most out of the unit

[roccobro]

You know, as i look at some of the equipment I haul out for bench testing, it would be easier and cheaper if there could be a real time interface to the computer to see what is going on. I really like the E-meter where it reads the PRM also and does some quick calcs to offer more than just watts. If this had RPM and calc'ed but maybe rpm/volt, or grams/watt if interfaced with a scale this would be awesome. Sure would save me some time monkeying around with a Tach, Watt-meter, multimeter, flashlight and other related wires and stuff (not even including a temp sensor- OR TWO!).

Just a thought. :D

Justin

[rcguy01]

after all, this is just a hobby for our leisure, not a rocket science.
Why do we need all kinds of high tech gadgets in this hobby?
Just fly your planes. If you crashed your plane? fix it, rebuild it or build
the new plane if you totaled the old one.

Relax, enjoy, have fun with your building, flying... whatsoever. That
is the main objective, sole purpose of any hobby, not only with E-flying.

Relax, enjoy life... folks.

[FRAMEDNLVS]

I use mine to find maximum numbers so I can keep my equipment from selfdestructing.

[davidsons]

I'm relaxed, enjoying life but also enjoy looking at numbers and how my setup is really performing in the air....so therefore I enjoy the DPR also! I doubt any of us that have purchased one or other high tech gadgets really need it. However, I bet that many who have no watt/amp meter, no tach and/or no DPR, have probably damaged a motor, a speed controller, a battery or at the very least shortened the life of them! And a few of those people have probably bought a setup that did not work and had to buy additional setups until they found one that worked. The numbers I get from the high tech gadgets gives me excellent working knowledge for the next setup!

There will always be more than one approach to the hobby and all that matters is that you are having fun!

[roccobro]

Seeing as this is a thread FOR these "gadgets", I have to give this warning as I'm beign followed again. :rolleyes:
*************************
Troll Alert!

"The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction and to remind others not to respond to trolls."

Justin

"Don't feed the trolls!"

[FRAMEDNLVS]

Seeing as this is a thread FOR these "gadgets", I have to give this warning as I'm beign followed again. :rolleyes:
*************************
Troll Alert!

"The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction and to remind others not to respond to trolls."

Justin

"Don't feed the trolls!"
I truly don't understand your troll post. This thread has been about the DPR and information regarding it.


Chris

[roccobro]

Chris- Read the post following mine posted at 09:46. This has nothing to do with the DPR either. Do a search, and see just how many others that poster is "stalking" or what is commonly called Trolling. I will not comment further, but there is an excellent FAQ on trolling if you search that also. :)

Now BACK on topic.

Justin

[learner]

anyway does anyone have any idears about my question thanks

[badcockr]

Bret,

I've just done a run alongside a CBA discharge and I have an interesting question about the 'charge' algorithm you are using; i.e. how the column 'charge' is calculated.

In the results a column of 'current' is produced. On my measurements my time interval is 0.5 seconds and if I integrate Current x deltaT I get a figure of 1805 mAh. Your charge column reports 1998 mAh.

Are you integrating the charge throughout your sampling (separately) or is the charge column in error?

A very interesting point for me at the moment; I'm sure looking to finding out.

Rod

[Bret]

Rod,

The DPR calculates charge based on the summation of each current sample and elapsed time. Each current sample from the DPR is the average of all over-sampled currents between "recorded samples".

[MD_Pepe]

Bret,

I have a DPR-100 and it works fine. But when I use the zoom feature in the software, I can see only the full seconds. It would be useful to see the 1/10, 1/100 of the seconds, because then I woould be able to analyze a short peak, which lasts less then one second. The attached file may help to understand it better. It may be helpful even only the .tdl file would contain the fractial seconds.

Another idea is to think about smoother resolution in the current measurement. Now the "high" resolution means 0.245098 A, which is not good enough if I use the battery charger and want to check how the delta-peak charger charges my battery. I usually use low charge current (500 mA) to save battery life, which means that now I would see only 2-3 steps on the current scale.

Regards,

Peter

[roccobro]

Any plans to make the DPR record RPM also? Competition is trying to catch up to your product, but are still a llittle behind the curve right now. :)

Justin

[biggy boy]

Any plans to make the DPR record RPM also? Competition is trying to catch up to your product, but are still a llittle behind the curve right now. :)

Justin

I have a DPR50 and love it. It is great to test the different ver. of
solfware for CC ESC's and there effects on you motors operation.
Ive even used it to test the performance of different ESc on the same motor
and battery setup.
I too am hoping that this unit will soon be able to monitor RPM.
That would be too cool :D

Glen

[roccobro]

Oooh! I am being asked for my christmas wish list. If it had the RPM function it would be a shoe in for top of the list. :D

Justin

[Bret]

Thanks guys. Sorry I have not been back to the thread in a while. We are currently looking into adding an RPM sensor for the DPR. At this time I do not have much information, but as I get it, I will keep you updated.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[roccobro]

Thanks Bret!

Justin

[biggy boy]

Hi Bret
Canyou have look at my graph please?
Whats up :confused:
I have preformed 15 bench tests with no problems, with various motors and props. One setup that I have bench tested I flew today and used the recorder. This time I did not use the temp sensors left them unpluged.
the numbers collected are wow way out there :eek: :eek:
Is it becuse the temp sensors were unpluged??
the set up at time of flight:
Mini AC motor
e-flite gearbox 6.6:1
12x6 RS GWS slow fly prop
Thunder Power 2100 3S lipo
Castle Creations Pheonix 25 with high advance
latest rev#
on my Slow Stick
static rpm as read at the field 4550

Bench test for this motor was 14.4 amps 155 watts

Darned now I'm going to have to go out and fly again to get my numbers :rolleyes: :D

Thanks
Glen

[Bret]

Glen,
Can you email me the original DPR file for us to analyze further?

Thanks,
Bret
www.bnbproducts
bret@bnbproducts.com

[biggy boy]

Glen,
Can you email me the original DPR file for us to analyze further?

Thanks,
Bret
www.bnbproducts
bret@bnbproducts.com

Did a bunch more bench tests and one more in-flight test and they worked
perfect :D

Thanks Bret this is cool can't wait for the RPM feature

Glen

[roccobro]

How about that RPM feature? That is all I'm waiting for to order.

ET just phoned home and they have their unit out for sale with rpm. :D

Justin

[biggy boy]

How about that RPM feature? That is all I'm waiting for to order.

ET just phoned home and they have their unit out for sale with rpm. :D

Justin

I want RPM who's ET??? Maybe I should be introduced to ET!!!! ;)

Glen

[roccobro]

Eagle Tree. Didn't want to plug them but want to light a fire under BNB to stay on top. :D

[Bret]

Thanks guys... We are feeling the warmth. We are working on some exciting upgrades for the DPR (including RPM sensor), but at this time I am unable to give much information, or a definite time-frame. More to come soon!

Thanks again for all of your support!

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[learner]

Eagle Tree. Didn't want to plug them but want to light a fire under BNB to stay on top. :D


i have to say that im looking to sell my DPR-50 in favour of the eagle tree unit it does a lot more like rpm and live data also software upgrades via internet
no offence but we need something to keep us interested

[AndrewsJr]

...

[biggy boy]

Well the place that I got my DPR from is now carrying the Eagle Tree
100 amp unit and it has Volts, Amps, Temp and RPM,
Plus it's like more then $30.00 cheeper :mad:
Where is the RPM for the DPR :confused:
http://www.zebrahobby.ca/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?pg=cat&ref=DPR&catstr=HOME:electronics

May have to go and get an Eagle tree 100 amp unit with RPM
And put this one away.

Glen

[roccobro]

I waited until after X-mas to buy. I can't wait much longer for my equipment to finalize my test (RPM needed). :( :confused:

Justin

[learner]

what has annoid me is the lack of reply from brett

we need more info about whats happening with addons thanks

[Bret]

Sorry for the lack of response. We have been very busy finalizing the upgrades to the DPR. At this point, we do have working prototypes of the RPM sensor and live graph/meter displays. I hate to give a release time-frame at this point, but I would think the upgrades will be available well within a month. Thanks again very much for the support and patience.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

[biggy boy]

Sorry for the lack of response. We have been very busy finalizing the upgrades to the DPR. At this point, we do have working prototypes of the RPM sensor and live graph/meter displays. I hate to give a release time-frame at this point, but I would think the upgrades will be available well within a month. Thanks again very much for the support and patience.

Bret
www.bnbproducts.com

Thanks Bret
:cool: That sounds great. I look forward to the soon to come upgrades :) :)

Glen

[learner]

hi bret sorry if i sounded blunt in my post but was worried
thanks for letting us know about the updates other than the rpm im happy that we may be able to get live data from the unit

again thanks for the quick reply

[learner]

i forgot to say bret if you need beta testers were avalible :)

[FRAMEDNLVS]

gone fishing

[MD_Pepe]

Bret,

How would your device sense the RPM? I think an optical method would give you some competitive advantage over the magnetic types.

Regards,

Peter