IM looking fora good thermal plane:

[samolot]

Follow these rules and submit your planes:

NOt a built up wing, something like Obechi Sheeted, or some other form.

Not form Arthobby, i know theyre good, but they seem rather complicated

THermals really easily

Capable of flying in windy conditions

Large park <-- where im going to fly it

Cost: <300$, please

What are my previous experiences?: Mastered a .46 glow trainer, just to get a sense of all the controls. MAstered the Spirit arf from GP, to get a sense of the flying characteristics of a glider.

Thanks alot, and please submit.

[Ollie]

Your rules are not for your own good.

[samolot]

hey im just trying to find some planes. I dont have much time to do research, and everytime someone posts, whats a good thermal plane, everyone replies, "be more specific" im as specific as i can get, if you dont have any ideas, then dont post a reply, simple as that.

I like sailplanes, i have flown a spirit, alot, my favorite plane, but i dont get long enough flights on it because of it characterisitcs, i want an aileron sailplane so i can do aerobatics.

[steve wenban]

the spirit is good as you said there is also the global Cirrus ARTF but also like you said built up wing any reason for a foam covered wing ? . There are a number scale part kits available down under but not sure in your neck of the woods but if you try Modelflight .com.au and look under scale sailplane your would get some better ideas .
hope that helps apart from that stick with the spirit it thermals great
SteveW

[samolot]

i nkow it does, but need something with ailerons. Will check out the site, thansk alot.

[samolot]

Is this price for real:

http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_sailplanes_gliders/sailplanes_rc_scale_dicus.htm

[Ollie]

"- i dont get long enough flights on it because of it characterisitcs -"

I don't agree. The stumbling block is lack of your thermal flying skil. With enough altitude you can do aerobatics. Then thermal again and then do aerobatics over and over again. This has nothing to with a build up wing.

My advise is not to buy another plane until you can get long enough flights with the Spirit.

http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1184
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=62
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=64

[steve wenban]

Is this price for real:

http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_sailplanes_gliders/sailplanes_rc_scale_dicus.htm
yep thats the price :cool: But what ollie is talking about the aerobatic performance of rudder elevator is also correct one of my Cirrus rolls very nicely loops no problem thermals like a demon (correction Slermals)
can handle the heavy air nicely and also has spoilers for those short field landing . I fly only slope but fly the Cirrus all the time have flown it in up to 20knts on the face without problem . Most my other ships are either full house or planks . Sure the rolls are more axial but the end results are the same. IMHO
SteveW

[portfoxdesign]

samolot, the scale discus is a part kit remember, glass fuse and wing cores, you will need to supply the rest of it. have you looked at the first + or hammer from Sky Affairs http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~aiklos/index.htm
Its poplar covered eps, fibre fuse, vtail. Flies really well.
S

[Ollie]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35788
People do it with skil, not with better equipment.

[samolot]

Ollie, dont lose your temper, due to my "unskilled experience." I just want to do some research so i know what im getting into, and so i dont make any mistakes choosing the wrong plane. Alright, i read soem posts on ArtHobby planes. THey seem alright, and i would like to change the rules a bit allowing art hobby planes. I just need to know one thing. Do the ailerons come precut on the planes? I looked at the boar, and it looks fine, but the wing seems to have none, do you cut them out yourselves?

THanks alot.


Ollie, take it easy.

[samolot]

i know that the rudder/elevator planes are great, and i have one. I need soemthing with ailerons though so i can do soem mixing, like flaperons, some crow mixing, just have fun. The GP elite sounds nice for these.

[billrcpilot]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35788
People do it with skil, not with better equipment.This guy is a real JERK! you sure can tell the lack of experience, I agree with all you have said. i have ask you for information many times over the last couple of years and you have always been wright on the money.

Bill
USAF Retired

[samolot]

thanks for your understanding, but this time i need the help, and you can be right on the money. I really want to purchase one, due to all the saved money i have stocked up in the box in my shelf. THe Spirit Elite sounds like a good choice after art hobby, what do you guys think.

[samolot]

...

[Mark Miller]

Sam,

Ollie has forgotten more about this hobby than you, me or most people around here know about it now. Don't be so closed minded. You are asking questions now listen and learn. People are giving you good advice here so be thankful. There is more to this hobby than what model to get. Use what you have to grow your skills. Ollies link is right on. Show some respect dude.

Mark

[samolot]

i know. Im training with all i got, and i got it all. The thing is, what good is wasting 300 bucks in a sailplane, when your gonna crash it. I respect everyones opinion and i respect everything i can get, its just the way he keeps degrading me.

[Roy Walton]

Samolot

Your post has certainly drawn a mixed bag of replies.

You might give Art-Hobby another look. They are not all that hard to build.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315316This is a thread on building one of their planes.

Everything you are asking for in your post is there except it is Art Hobby.

As to having a problem getting long enough flights from your present plane. Maybe there is just not a whole lot of thermal activity where you are. Ollie says you need more experience, and experience certainly helps - but - it is not everything! Perhaps Ollie has been flying forever - but - that does not make him the ultimate authority.

I have been flying Free Flight since the early 1950s and RC since the Super Airtrole and Babcock single channel / rubber band escapement/ era, - but - I am not the ultimate authority either. I will try to help though rather than criticize.

If you are learning soaring you might try the address's I will give you in a follow up post.

Perhaps Mark Miller, who has great knowledge of soaring will chime in with actual help rather than just defend Ollie.

Anyway - check out the build thread I gave you and I here are some addresses that may help

Some addresses:
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/links_learnaboutrc.htm
http://djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/

Roy

[samolot]

Thats a nice thermic. No; the place where fly couldnt be better. I have a nice really small hill looking a flat field where i do my flying, wish i can show you a pic, but did not go there for a while. I agree that art hobby does make the best valued-planes on the market. I will look into further details about your sites.

THanks

[Ollie]

samolot,
I am sorry that you intreprented my suggestions as an attack on your ego. I respect your golds. My point view is to save you money and not disapoint you because of your approach with equipment.

[samolot]

dont take it personally. But coming back to the gliders, more specifically the arthobby ones. such as the thermic. How exactly doe it fly? I heard the tail ends (elevator, stab), are quite weak, whats the deal?

[Roy Walton]

Samolot

Read through this thread where someone is building one.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...hp?t=315316This
Eventually he will fly it.

There are many comments in this thread and it may contain info for you.

I have not flown any of the Art Hobby products. They look good in pictures. What I can see of construction looks good. The comments I have read are mostly good.

As to weak tail parts - I just don't know. I have seen posts on many of the popular ARF and kits having parts that fail. What caused the failure is a question. Was the part just plain old weak, or was it flown past it's design limits, was it abused, was it a 1 in a million failure? We just don't know.

To find comments on the Art Hobby Thermic - do an Advanced search for Art Hobby Thermic and check the box that says to "show results as posts". I bet you get a ton of info.

Roy

[Roy Walton]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=315316&page=23#post3727142

Go here and read post #338. He was worried about the stiffness and offers a picture of his solution.

Keep in mind that (probably) hundreds of these planes are being flown with no tail problems. What the person in #338 thinks is just his oppinion and he may be wrong.

Roy

[samolot]

Yeah i guess. These planes od look good though. Are htere any other ones? Are there sailplanes made out of EPP, except the slopers of course?

[fly1milehi]

I have a thermic V-tail built just like Art Hobby's instructions said to. I covered mine with Ultracote not lacquer. I Have had ZERO problems with the strength of the tail. Respectfully Im tired of seeing posts that say this and that about the tail. If you fly the plane for Thermal Duration its going to be fine! If you fly it like an F3J molded model you are going to break it.
The ailerons are not hard to build. You simply cut them "free" as indicated in the instructions. All the wood is pre-built right into the wing.

Greg

[Roy Walton]

Samolot

The people that make Zagi used to make an EPP thermal plane. They call it the Floater, I called mine the Sinker.

Generally EPP is too heavy for a thermal machine.

There is little choice in thermal plane kits, ARFs or anything for that matter.

fly1milehi says it well in his post above. Incidentally, I am leaning toward V-tails now. I have a Chrysalis (kit) that is V-tail and it flies nicely. I also have an Alegro Lite (plans and short kit) with a conventional tail, also nice. On my workbench is a Bubble Dancer (plans and short kit) that I will be fitting with a V tail.

If I were buying a sailplane, I would try the Art Hobby planes.

Roy

[trident58]

Samolot,
I would highly reccomend one of the Art Hobby planes. I have a Boar 2m. I must say, I have learned more about flying with that plane in just 3 months than I did flying slimers for 10 years. With full house controls and a simple computer radio, there are so many different mixing options you can try out. I swear, if that plane could cook, I'd marry it.
As for tail strength, if you fly it like it's designed to, you'll have no problems. I had an incident with mine 2 weeks ago- I got a little too carried away in diving out of a thermal and I ripped off the vertical stabilizer. BUT- the plane handles so well I was able to land it safely- definitely NOT because of my flying skills!
Try one- you'll like it!
Jon

[samolot]

I will, its just that the Thermic an the Boar see to be top notch, so which ones better?

[samolot]

By the way:

http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_sailplanes_gliders/sailplanes_rc_scale_dicus.htm

What do they mean about "foam part kit" How will this plane come in the box? Is it a kit? RTF? ARF? I really dont know, but the price is unbelievable.

[Roy Walton]

Samolot

I looked at the scale discus site. I can't figure out what they are offering. I suspect iy is just a part of a plane. You can e-mail them, there is an address at that site.

Roy

[samolot]

IT sure would be niec if everything there was for under 200. THere is a Jantar 2.4 available at icare-rc.com where it includes everything for 250. NICe plane.

[erich]

Mr. samolot

Since we're talking about what is nice....Am a 2nd grade teacher. While all my children have brains. What I have always thought would be nice, is: IF they sometimes used them.

erich

[evan]

samolot,

There are some pretty good choices presented here.

Mastering the Spirit means you can "Thermal it almost at will" (assuming that the lift is present). The Spirit (RES) is a lot easier to fly in terms of pilot workload than a full house (aileron and flapped) sailplane which makes thermal hunting/utilization more enjoyable and less of a frustrating experience. Once you are able to get 10 or more min. flights with this Spirit on a regular basis and you get sick of it because it doesn't challenge your piloting skills anymore; then, it's time to move on to the full house.

My .02 cents and I hope you find what you are seeking.

[samolot]

Whats your point erich? I have flown 5 minute flights before, thats due to the weak thermal acitivity i have in my field. Since this is the start of a new season, i will look around to find any field with great thermal activity. I found out about a place by an rcgroups member, which i will be making a trip probably this or next weekend, dependign on when my clubs fly in will be. Got to show love for some glow planes out there.

[samolot]

Some of you may have noticed, that i posted up a "good scale thermal" post. Dont think that im abandonning this one. I print outevery reply i get for future reference. Im just thinking that since the scale gliders look better, i might as well ask a few questions, but dont worry, if its way out of my league, im going all thermal here. Just curious thats it.

[erich]

Mr. samolot

No point, just rambling on.

erich

[samolot]

alright

[Ollie]

When a symphony orchestra prepares to perform, just before the performance, it tunes up. This is so the various instruments can harmonize with each other to produce beautiful music.

A pilot, plane, launching device and radio are a system where the parts have to be adjusted to each other in a harmonious way to make beautiful flights. When the parts are not adjusted to each other, do we blame the parts or the adjustor? Often two people will have differing opinions about a particular design of plane because they attribute the differences to the design rather than to differences in the way the otherwise identical planes were adjusted to match the systems they were being flown in.

There is a wrong headed point of view that is running rampant. It is that the way a plane flies is entirely due to the design and to the manufacture. I think of this as the "appliance" mentality. It appeals to a lot of people who only buy ARF's and who expect the plane to perform properly when assembled according to the instructions without any further effort on the part of the owner. These people have generally not informed themselves of the affects of various adjustments. This approach can only result in a relatively safe but mediocre performance.

For best results the CG location has to be adjusted to the pilot's ability and flying style. The decalage has to be adjusted to the CG location and to the pilot's skill and flying style. The tow hook location has to be adjusted to the pilots skill, the launch technique and launch equipment. The control throws have to be adjusted to the pilot's flying style. Furthermore the adjustments have to accomodate the flying conditions and the particular purpose of the flight to be made.

[Ollie]

Sorry.

[Roy Walton]

Ollie has pronounced the truth and essence of selecting, building and flying. And he is just naming the "things". Each of these "things" have pages and pages of fact, opinion, theory and conjecture. Selecting, building and flying could be a book!

Ah. If there was such a book.

If samolot continues to read this thread it might be "Nice" for those of us who have the knowledge to add more references to the 2 references I made in an earlier post for learning these "things". Perhaps others will add to the list . . . .

In fact a nice list would be handy for all of us. There is so much to know.

Here is a starter
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/links_learnaboutrc.htm
http://djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/


Roy

[rdwoebke]

Whats your point erich? I have flown 5 minute flights before, thats due to the weak thermal acitivity i have in my field. Since this is the start of a new season, i will look around to find any field with great thermal activity. I found out about a place by an rcgroups member, which i will be making a trip probably this or next weekend, dependign on when my clubs fly in will be. Got to show love for some glow planes out there.

I'm probably going to regret jumping in here. But what field out there has bad thermal activity? And what thermal field has better activtiy? Now keep in mind I have flown gliders in all corners of this great USA (Maine, Florida, Washinton St., and California is how I have decided to define it... (-: ) as well as the center (IN, IL, KY, OH, IA), I have never found a field that does not have thermals. Perhaps a day where the thermal activity is weak, sure. I have often heard people say that lift is stronger in some areas of the country (California). I'm not even sure I am willing to go to that extent! But never have I seen a field in the same geographic area as another field that had "poor thermal activity".

Ryan

[Roy Walton]

rdwoebke -

Mobile, Alabama - We have flown from 2 fields over the last 20 years. We have more "no" thermal days than thermal days. The "no" thermal days do sometimes have some very light lift, but, generally only enough to delay landing a bit. Our flyers have included a National Champion, Charlie F. Waller, so there has been some expertise available.

We are limited to one field now and it has less thermal activity than the older one. Both these fields are out in the country and surrounded by farmlands. When all is growing and green, thermal activity is less. Except, an occasional "trash lifter" of huge diameter will pass through.

In the fall and winter when there is some green and some brown growth we have a different thermal pattern. When the wind is from the north, thermal activity is regular and gentle on thermal days - very nice. From the west and there are very few thermals. Sort of a mixed bag for other wind directions. This (I have been told) is due to thermals forming over and area and then breaking off and blown by the wind to our area. It makes sense as the "bottoms" of these thermals can be quite high, while at other times they are fairly low.

We did fly from a military field (part of the show, mainly powerd planes) several times. This field has a lot of asphalt, is bordered by the bay on one end and by the city to the other. There was always lift there. It was bumpy, strong, rough and when you came out of lift it was into strong sink. It was not a relaxed place to fly.

Anyway - we seem to have a mixed bag of thermal activity and it varies in areas. Basically it seems that if there is mixed ground cover, there are thermals. I have been told that it is due to the un-equal heating of the ground.

Those fields are in the same geographic area, but, certainly not the same topological area.

Don't regret jumping in. Your info is good and you have been places and have first hand knowledge. I, on the other hand have never flown any more than 60 miles from here.

Roy

[rdwoebke]

Bummer to hear about your field and about loosing the other.

I have often heard reference to different kinds of surfaces causing lift. I'm not sure I really buy into that. I guess the one thing I have most often done is I have flown at city parks, so there is a pretty good amount of differnt kind of ground. Mown grass, large trees on the corners of the parks, and an asphalt parking lot. BTW, I think Samalot is from NY. Perhaps even NYNY. I flew at the F3J team selection on Long Island in 1999. I thought that field was quite nice. It was some kind of city park.

The one thing I have found with areas that "cause lift" and I have also noticed other pilots exploiting this as well is ridges and tree lines. Not neccesarily in a sloping fashion (although you can do that too), but it seems these lines tend to "kick off" thermals. Because of this I often tend to hunt in a down wind tree line, or hunt in an up wind "bump of ground".

I hate to suggest getting different kind of planes, but perhaps your field actually would benefit from a different kind of plane? Perhaps there is a line or a hill somewhere farther away that a ship that can cover a lot of ground would get to? Another curios thing is what kind of birds do you have in your area? Do you have thermal birds (hawks, vultures, etc)? If so, do they often hang at your field? If not, I guess that would be a good indication your field is lousy for thermals. :-( Or lousy for food! :-)

[Roy Walton]

We fly from Gentle Lady to Bubble Dancer. At one time or another all the so called "Nostalgia" (state of the art then) planes have flown at one of the fields. I have an Alegro Lite that seems to be the best plane for that field.

I am also flying some DLG. It finds a whole bunch of sporodic light lift at about 15 feet. Lifts to about 20 and vanishes (the lift, not the plane <g>) to be replaced by another one a few feet away. Have gotten a couple of 3 minute flights with an Alula in this type lift.

We are flat, flat. At times there is (likely) dynamic lift at the Pine tree line. If the wind is right it can give lift to 50 above the trees, but, the plane is sort of back in the forrest and not very high over the trees. Pretty risky.

We have many of the soaring birds. Not at the field, but, passing the field. They generally pass at high altitude and are just specks. I imagine they are riding what is called "bubble lift" that broke off some miles from our field. The bottom of that thermal is out of winch range. I have taken an electric powered Talon up to the high birds and could remain there without power and Talon is much more "slope" than "thermal". At a lesser altitude there was no lift. (Not enough for Talon anyway)

Every once in awhile some hawks come through low and we go up and join them until the lift is too far downwind This is a gentle sustained lift in about a 40 foot circle and not much altitude is gained by us or the birds.

I have tried slope soaring in the clay (borrow) pits around the area. Sort of a challenge as the wind is not constant and results in a long walk down to the bottom to get the plane when all goes calm.

Different surfaces - A thermal, by definition, is a mass of air warmer than the surrounding air and is rising. If you were ever barefoot on asphalt in the summer, you know some surfaces do get hotter than others. I am sure that you agree that warm air rises. Therefore, different surfaces radiating or absorbing heat cause warm rising air - a thermal.

I thank you for your thoughts.

Oh, I just rememberd we have a pair of hunting hawks that show up every so often. They are getting mice in the adjoining fields (ours is a grass farm). They never soar. They fly up to about a hundred feet, then go into a rapid glide that sometimes end in a swooping dive. So there is some food.

Roy

[rdwoebke]

Wow, very interesting discussion we have going on here. I'm not sure if we are on or off topic.

You have an interesting field, and you have certainly done your homework. That part about climbing the electric glider to spec height and finding big patches of lift is interesting. I have occasionally noticed days here in Indiana where the "bottoms" of the thermals seem to be high and you have to have a good launch to get into one. AKA, a day where somebody flying from a high start is golden but if I was flying HLG I was launching a lot.

Some day, if I ever make my way to Alabama, I would like to fly in your field! Because it sounds very interesting and different from what I am used to. I was in Alabama many years ago for a rocket contest, and the terrain is a bit different than other areas of the country I have frequented. I remember having a rocket crash and picking up a lot of very red soil.

I have walked around barefoot in the summer. :-) I think all children should as youths. But watch out for the bees and the pointy vegetation. I agree that the hot surfaces probably actually create the lift. But for me, I most often tend to work the “lines” as it seems to me they “catch all the lift” and then when they are full release it into a nice big thermal.

I'm always impressed with people with Drela designs. I'm interested to hear about why you say the Allegro you have is best for the field. In my avatar, I am holding my Bubble Dancer, but the current ship on my board is an Allegro Lite. I’m primarily intending the Allegro Lite for speed 400 use, but I think a pure glider fuselage will be in the work eventually as well.

Good stuff, and good to meet you.

Ryan

[Roy Walton]

Maybe a lil off subject.

Nice to have met you. PM me if you ever head this way.

My Bubble Dancer is framed and ready to sand. I have modded it to V tail.

Roy

[Peytr]

Maybe a lil off subject

Not really. The discussion about the different types of thermals is right on topic because it can be of importance in defining a good thermal plane, which this thread is about.

I've got several planes and have thermalled them all, but not on the same day or even location. My club has a field which is on dry sandy soil. Can be very turbulent and with patches of vigorous sink. I have an Electra, which can thermal like a dream but I don't like it in turbulent thermals and or windy condx. I have another electric plane (kind of middle between an Allegro and a Terminator) which does excellent in up to 5 Bft and turbulent afternoon air on a hot day. I've even thermalled a Zagi derivate when bricks would go up and my Electra would have surely crashed. My 1 meter DLGs thermal only when wind is below 3 Bft, because it's a stressing business to fly it in windier condx. I vary planes with condx. Even windless winterdays thermals can be found. Weaker, so a plane with a better sink rate and less penetration are used then. Its all about choosing the right plane for the conditions.

[Roy Walton]

Petyr

All very true and used by many. The plane must fit the conditions and type flight asked of it.

Further to enhance your case: One can change the characteristics of a single plane by adjusting the ballast to fit the conditions (up to a point). This might even be a better solution than you offer of flying different planes as the pilot would get more stick time with a single design and (hopefully) enhance his skills and bonding with that plane.

But . . . .

There can be days with no thermal activity at all where one is flying. There is no selection to fit that (if your desire is to thermal), unless you count well sealed wings filled with helium.

Wow! The Netherlands! I bet it is beautiful there.

Roy

[samolot]

Wow, thanks for posting all this information, this is great. Now there are areas with weak thermal activity, ON AVERAGE. I am part of a club which has abolutely the best thermal activity. Since is far off, i go to a park nearby, thats where i just fly to enjoy gliding down to the ground in an extended period of time. Great references, will look in to them.

[Peytr]

Wow! The Netherlands! I bet it is beautiful there.

Now we're off topic :rolleyes: ;)

The Netherlands is one of the most crowded countries on the globe and it's difficult for clubs to keep their flying locations wit all building activity. There simply isn't any wasteland here. Having said that: I have a beautifull club field to my disposal (natural moor, very dry & sandy, good thermal forming even in winter) and have a few locations for excellent coastal slope soaring. Not really high dunes, but the air is aboslutely laminar, due to the sea being in front of the dunes. I can get to these locations in an hours drive, so I'm not complaining.

[steve wenban]

plenty of room down here and plenty of thermals :) drop in any time
SteveW

[LWThompson]

Hey Samolot,
Take a look at the NESAIL Pulsar. It looks simple, closed bays, etc. The sapphire may also work but is more $. Good Luck. Please close out this thread by telling us your decision and possibly a build thread.

Wayne

[e-sailpilot86]

consider e-sailplanes.com for consignment items. Not related... just good stuff from there. BTW, you many want to go to fatlion.com and click the url for sailplanes. It was an excellent resource for me when I was just starting the hobby.
http://www.fatlion.com/sailplanes/sailplanes.html

[Soar_dude]

I recommend the Spirit Elite ARF it is what I recommend the price is even though it has built up wing it is strong enough be a little aggressive on a winch. Even though it kind of on the heavy side there are things that can done to lighten it up
check out this thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47215&page=2&pp=15&highlight=spirit+elite+ARF+
this one talks about replace the metal control rods with carbon fiber
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184761&highlight=spirit+elite+ARF+
then I think Sobox still sells the Vampire
http://webhome.idirect.com/~sobox/gliders.html
but If you are only going to flying for fun and not competing I would recommend a RES sailplane they are less complicated easy to fly and have great performance. I think I saw a a add in RCM for a Paragon ARF from Europe and then there is the Bird of time ARF but it has a weak spar structure. Built up Structures are not a bad thing if built right!

Soar Dude

[kkw]

By the way:

http://www.modelflight.com.au/rc_model_sailplanes_gliders/sailplanes_rc_scale_dicus.htm

What do they mean about "foam part kit" How will this plane come in the box? Is it a kit? RTF? ARF? I really dont know, but the price is unbelievable.
Having read all of this thread, I have formed an opinion about the experience and skill level of the author. However...... the question re the Discus kit. I have one. It comprises a 1/4 scale fuselage, carbon canopy frame, canopy, foam cores for the wings and tailplane and a basic instruction leaflet. There is a lot of building left for the buyer.

kkw.

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

Hi Roy,
Thanks for the compliment, its nice to know that someone remembers. Is that Mary Montgomry you are talking about ???

I am going to Tullahoma Tenn this weekind for my first contest this year, Good field with lots of lift, not like M M. I will be flying my AVA and a new Graphite 3.45 in unlimited.
Charlie F Waller
Post some pics of your Bubble Dancer, If it is not suited to the lift there put me first on the BUY list.

[kawika]

I was going to suggest the spirit elite, you mentioned you liked your spirit.
I don't have an elite but one of my flying buddies does. It is a very nice plane for an arf .He is on his third one I believe. Its a great aileron trainer.
You can't go wrong for $119.00 at Tower hobbies.

[Roy Walton]

Hi Charlie - Yes, good old Mary M!

Check your e-mail for news tonight.

Roy

[CHARLIE BRITT 7]

Roy,
Didn't get the news yet.
Charlie

[Roy Walton]

Charlie,
I hope it is in your PM box now.
Roy