micro Messerschmitt Me P.1092/5

[Thomas B]

How about a scale Luft '46 nano jet?

First of all, let me say that bernip1's thread on his design contest entry of this Luft '46 jet had a good bit to do with inspiring this project.
That particular "jet that never was" was always a favorite of mine.
In fact, I like the whole 1092 series of designs.

A model buddy and and I wanted a fun little simple scale like jet to test some different 40mm fan setups.
This was the chosen design.

He had some spare time and whipped out some very basic tooling for getting one molded in sheet EPS foam.
I took the first set of parts and did the alpha build and testing. First flight was a week ago.

Span is about 21 inches, length is 17.5. Control is elevator and aileron.
The model weighs 4.8 oz painted and the last thrust test was 4.7 oz static.

Setup is:

EDF40 with the hot 25 turn Feigao, CC10 and 3s Lokam 340.
(draws about 6.7 amps static)
BMS-303 coreless micros on elevator and strip ailerons
GWS R4P RX

Here is the alpha build model that has 3 flights on it.
It is a fast and groovy and spirited little EDF!
We kept the wing undercamber thin to reduce drag and aerobatic side effects, and it worked, I think.
The little airfoiled wing gives very nice handling and the model lands great.

It needed just a bit of down thrust to help a pitchup tendancy at low airspeed and high throttle settings.
After flying this one, we did another build with a touch larger tail surfaces that are a touch further back and the model flies even better.

Yesterday I gave the model a quick and dirty Luftwaffe camo job, in RLM 76, 82 and 83, styled like a famous Me-262 flown by Galland.
Paint is Poly-S acrylic. This week, I am going to cut some stencils for the Luftwaffe markings and airbrush them on as well.

I am considering making up a batch of kits, but do not deluge me with requests just yet.
I do not want to make any posts about kits until I can offer more details.
I would like to gauge the interest, though.

Any interest?...:)

[Thomas B]

Here are the parts, laid out. Fuse and wing are molded, tails are sheet EPS.

There are some neat little molded inlet parts...the insides of the nostrils. They are already installed in these pics. The scale inlets require a small aux inlet under the fuse, in the fan hatch.

Not shown is a vac formed fan mount that is still in development.

Also shown is a view inside the radio compartment. Visible are the BMS-303 micro coreless servos, and the Kokam pack on a little EPS tray inside the nose.

[U812]

I love it Thomas!

Steve

[Thomas B]

These pics show the bottom of the model and the inside of the lower fuse.
Build time was about 6 hours, as was paint time. The silver paper taped to the aft end of the fan is a exhaust duct close out.

You can see the ends of the nasal inlets and the RX up in the nose. I kept the bottom of the wing and this area in general clean, for good airflow to the fan.

[Thomas B]

Here is the framed up, complete but unpainted model. Before paint, the weight was 4.6 oz.

[U812]

I want one!

Steve

[Thomas B]

You are covered, Steve....will be a while, though...:)

[Synwpn]

hahah thats great! i'd be interested in one for sure!

[Huckebein]

I want one !!

[AirX]

I will take one... :)

Eric B.

[Thomas B]

Air X, as you might have read, I am using the EDF40 setup that you liike...the hot Feigao, a heat sink and some throttle management. Also, the 3S 340 Kokams drop enough voltage under load to ease the load on the fan a little (but still inside of 20C)

I am goin to test on 3S 730s this week, and use a little more throttle management as the voltage delivered will be a little higher.

We flew the number two prototype last Thursday on 3S 730s and the 28 turn Feigao and it worked almost as well, really.

But, the hot Feigao had more horses, for sure...:)

[AirX]

Yup the 25 turn will take it, even the little GWS sink is adequate. I run mine on the Irate 850 pack with no ill effects, I do moderate the throttle and use a little low throttle on the glide in and while walking to retrieve it. So far not hitting much over 120F but the temperatures are coming up here in Houston so it will need more care I suppose.

Eric B.

[GermanTigger]

I´m also interested in one kit! Do you have a Video to share?

Toby

[U812]

Thomas,

Looks like you have a hot one on your hands. Get busy and thanks for covering my rear! ;)

Thanks a whole bunch!

Steve

[berniep1]

I figured you would have a lot of interest!!!

Kudos to you, Thomas!

Bernie

[turbonut]

I will take two!! Very cool
Scott

[Thomas B]

No video yet, as I do not have digital video or a card to capture normal video.

My work schedule make it look like video might be as much as a month away, to be taken at SMALL Steps.

Will try to get some video sooner, but no promises...

[Thomas B]

Here are a few pics of the number 2 build, by my model buddy that did the tooling. This one has the 28 turn Feigao and 3S 730s. He tried a slightly larger set of tail surfaces and a slightly longer tail moment on this version. Seem to work fine, but we will likely reduce the vertical tail area just a bit.

Before committing to the 21" molded wing, I am going to build one with a flat 4 mm depron wing, just to see how it does.

I bought a little Guillows kit, the 500 series FW-190, just to steal the decals from for the number one model at the beginning of the thread.....;)

[Kevin Cox]

Great job Thomas!

[Thomas B]

Thanks, Kevin. Means a lot coming from you.

If you can, drive down to Little rock for Small steps the first weekend in June. Several of us will be EDFing there. I will bring these guys along for fun...:)

[U812]

So nice!

Steve

[wireit]

That really is a slick job of a luft 46'.
Well done

makes me want to buy a second motor and get in line... I broke the wires on the first one

joe

[Kevin Cox]

Thanks, Kevin. Means a lot coming from you.

If you can, drive down to Little rock for Small steps the first weekend in June. Several of us will be EDFing there. I will bring these guys along for fun...:)

I will check and see if it is open....I have always wanted to go there back when I flew 1/2A.

[Thomas B]

I see more 12mm brushless motors and EDF 40 fans in my future...:)

The next nano sized Luft '46 bird is likely to be a Junkers EF 128.

Others under consideration are a sport jet for EDF 40, with a curvy fuse and a nano A-4 skyhawk....

One thing that is really neat about the Me P.1092/5 is that in planform, it exactly resembles an Me 262 without the wing engine pods......part of the reason is that this aircraft used the tail surfaces from an Me 262.

I'm off to decal the number one model...it gets to be White 7.

[AirX]

Thomas if you do an A-4 I will buy it.... :)
One of my all time favorites... :)

Cheers,

Eric B.

[Synwpn]

no kidding! i'm with Eric B.! i'm working on a slightly larger microfan sized one.

[Huckebein]

The next nano sized Luft '46 bird is likely to be a Junkers EF 128.


I'LL BUY 3 !!! :D

[stacker]

Looks great Thomas! You may want to look at the 900 Max amp packs, they are real light and pwered my 4 x edf40 Bv188 pritty good.

Stacker

[Thomas B]

I have not yet tried the Maxamps 900 packs. The 3s pack would be 15 grams or more than a half oz heavier than the 730s, adding 10% to the gross weight.....:(

I will probably try one anyway, but the model flies so well around 5 oz, I hate to load it up.

[stacker]

Can't wait to see it fly!

Stacker

[Thomas B]

Stacker, you need to make a road trip to SMALL Steps in June in Little Rock and bring that fleet of German jets. You would knock their socks off.

I hope to have some kits for sale at SMALL, if all goes well. There will be two or three of the little Me's flying there.

[snolord1]

i think german planes are cool,this looks like i'm gonna have to dig into the piggy bank...lol

i started with a profile to test the design of the P1111 and i am so happy with it,that i would like to design a full fuse version.
any help on the P1111 would be appreciated.
this is what she looks like now.
it's in the foamy forum.
she's running a cdrom motor with a 3x3 prop and 2s1320mA lipo,and a CC10.

[devmonkey]

Fantastic stuff Thomas. I would be extremely interested in a skyhawk.

Joe

[Thomas B]

Thanks, Devmonkey

The others will be formed over simple male tooling with no panel lines, but I have high hopes to create some nice female tooling with more details for the nano A-4.

The little Me s going to the Warbird Fly In (all sizes and type of power) at Thunderbird Field, Benbrook, TX on May 14. I predict that the only smaller warbird will be my DWE P-38 at 2.6 oz ready to fly...;)

[Speedfreak]

Verrrrrrrrrrry nice!!! I'll take one when you start kitting them. Glad to see the nanos going from boxy to curvy. BTW my L-39 crashed so I'll make the templates soon for it.

[Vernon Hunt]

I like the model alot! What kind of sheet eps do you use? Where can I get some? How do you form this stuff? Is it heated and draped? Or do you vacuum form it? It seems like a great way to make a really light airframe.

[Thomas B]

There are a number of threads around about forming EPS (also know as Depron around here). A search will turn up a number of them.

The best results are from the virgin material on the large roll, not the stuff for sale in sheets that has already been heated and foamed up thicker.

It is a vacuform process, but it is very tricky.

I think there is room for some curvy nanojets as well as the origami ones...:)

[devmonkey]

Harpye from hte foamie forum has shown some examples of his depron molding process, very simple although I haven't tried it yet.

Here is the description of the process.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353273

[Thomas B]

Harpye from hte foamie forum has shown some examples of his depron molding process, very simple although I haven't tried it yet.

Here is the description of the process.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353273

Not a bad way to form EPS for scratchbuilders, but rather labor intensive for doing more than a one off...;)

I wonder what it does to his EPS when the tape that supports the foam during forming is pulled off the out surface of the molded part...my experience is that it removes the outer layer of the foam..:(

One issue with forming the sheet Depron as we know it is that it is intolerant to overheating....tends to be frangible and brittle then, more so than the virgin stock.

But, there are always ways to improve and tweak processes.....

[STRINGFLY]

Thomas...this messer looks very neat..... bring me a short kit to Small... will trade you something nice for it..........(darn,I need another Fiego!!).....................STRINGFLY <>+++++

[Thomas B]

I hope to have a few betas by then, but might not. We shall see.

I will work with you!


I need to post some pictures of it decaled...looks better.

After I flew the prototype and before I painted it, I lost the top hatch/canopy assembly at work somewhere....it NEVER turned up.

I had to sacrifice another fuse to replace it....so, what to do with the partial fuse and other parts of the kit...;)

Thinking about doing a /3 or a /4 version of the 1092....3 views below..:)

Just replace the missing upper hatch with a foam block carved to shape and hollowed and rearrange the canopy position. Close enough for fun, I think.

[U812]

Thomas,

How about a micro Huck?

Steve

[Thomas B]

A micro Huck has been in the back of my mind, I must confess....:)

[devmonkey]

Thomas,

How about a micro Huck?

Steve

Do you have a Huck plan or some x-sections Steve? I want to give the Harpye's molding process a go and think this would be an ideal test subject.

Joe

[Huckebein]

A micro Huck has been in the back of my mind, I must confess....:)


droool ....micro Huck! :D

[Thomas B]

Do you have a Huck plan or some x-sections Steve? I want to give the Harpye's molding process a go and think this would be an ideal test subject.

Joe

Some fairly decent drawings with cross sections on the Luft '46 site, here:

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html

These same drawings have been published in several Luft '46 books and are, I believe, about the only drawings around with the cross sections of the Huck.

I think a small Huck must be done...:)

[U812]

True enough but make sure that the tail fin is enlarged to at lease 16% of the wing area or you'll be very sorry. Trust me on this one. I know.

Tail is too small. Remember these drawings never got beyond the table but my huck did and flew very badly until we increased the size of the tail. Both of them!

Steve

[Thomas B]

Thanks for the good advice, Steve.

I notice that the RBC Huck has a bigger vertical tail as well, now that I look at it with a more critical eye.

Although not precisely a Huck, the Argentine IAe-33 Pulqui II was certainly a close relative of it and it had a lot of teething troubles as well.

Some people are in complete awe of some of these Luft '46 aircraft and think they would have been the cat's meow if they had really been produced as real aircraft. Reality is that perhaps 10% of them had seeds of true greatness and 90% would have had lots of issues, like the Huck.

However, they are ALL cool...:)

[U812]

Thomas,

you did see the flight video of my 90mm scratch built Huck? Right?

Steve

[W@CC0]

Some people are in complete awe of some of these Luft '46 aircraft and think they would have been the cat's meow if they had really been produced as real aircraft. Reality is that perhaps 10% of them had seeds of true greatness and 90% would have had lots of issues, like the Huck.

However, they are ALL cool...:)


indeed

a lot of these aircraft followed eachother in the development program. the program of messerschmitt for a single engined fighter for example ended with the p 1112. all the steps between p1101 and p1112 were never going to be build and were just steps in the design progress. and the outcome of this whole proces probably still needed some improvements.
for the huck too, this was only fw's entwurf 2. after this entwurf 3 came. and this looked a lot more like the mig 15 which flew very succesfull after the war. on the luft 46 site you can read that the russians builded the huck, and then lowered the horizontal stabilizer, as in entwurf 3 and with the mig 15.
they are indeed all very cool, but I think only a small amout (even less as 10 %) would have made it to front line service if the war was to continue.

very nice project btw

grtz

Tom

[Huckebein]

I admit that I fall into the "cat's meow" group of people... as you can probably tell with my nickname.

It is true that most of the Luft '46 aircraft would be difficult to fly.. if they flew at all. I think the appeal of these aircraft is their fantastical nature. They represent the imagination of the human mind unleashed.

That's why when one of these concept aircraft is successfully modelled...it is so exciting...... cuz ' the darned thing actually flew'

[Micronics]

MICRO HUCK!

Yes please Thomas,Make it as a kit.Its my dream,a nano huck.Infact Im planning to scratch build it.So please would you make it on your next list.Pleeeeease....

Allen

[Thomas B]

Ok, the little Huck is on the list. You guys will have to be very patient with me, as I already work a more than full time job.

Right now, the order will probably be the Me P.1092/5, the Ta-183, the A-4 or the Ju EF-128 and then the other, then perhaps a Bandit type sport jet.

[Huckebein]

Right now, the order will probably be the Me P.1092/5, the Ta-183, the A-4 or the Ju EF-128 and then the other, then perhaps a Bandit type sport jet.

Are you taking orders, Thomas? :p

[roccobro]

I'm in. Let me know when and where to send funds.

Justin

[huckebein_13]

what has happened with this? any developments?

[Peter Pankras]

cool model..
I'm working on the me1092 version 3 for minifan 480.
Great to hear yours flies really good..

Peter

[SammyB]

I'm in on all if they are ever made into kits. Hope ThomasB hasn't lost interest.

[Thomas B]

Sorry about my late reply, here.

Have not lost interest, but work and life has been demanding all my time lately. Have decided to sell my current house and have been doing a lot more house redecorating and repair than model building.

I am scheduled pretty solid until mid or late October. My plan is to spend a few days molding parts around then and get the first batch of kits ready to go.

If possible, I will mold parts and have a few kits ready for DEAF and BEST in early Oct....

As soon as the parts are molded, I will start taking names for delivery. I am not going to accept any names, reservations or money before the kits are 90-100 % complete and ready to ship.

[SammyB]

GREAT! Well, keep us informed as I am sure you will. My guess is you will probably be flooded with orders!

[Thomas B]

Well, I predict that an overwhelming flood will not happen. Based on tales of other similar models sold through Ezone, I am thinking it will level out a LOT at 30-40 kits.

I will do my darnest to get them out in time for the holidays...;)

[STRINGFLY]

Put me down for one.. maybe if ready ,,, get one to Paul, when you see him
or just let me know when to send money.. Thanks Thomas.
STRINGFLY <>+++++
(btw...my current wierdness.... flys as wierd as it looks).

[SammyB]

I will do my darnest to get them out in time for the holidays...;)
Hows it been Thomas? Everytime I see you pop up in another thread, I remember this one.

[Thomas B]

Sorry about the long delay and no news...too much work and not enough spare time to make any kit progress.

The kits are still going to come. I am going to make a first run of around 40-50, hopefully over the Christmas holidays when I have most of a week off.

Thanks for the patience.

[roccobro]

I still dream of having one of these beauties. I could never refind this thread when curious though. :o

Thomas- Is there anything I can do to help?

Justin

[Tres Wright]

All this time I never knew there was a thread for the ME, I thought it was top secret or something :D Guys, I've seen and held the ME, and I've seen Tom fly it. It is a wonderful little jet. Pictures don't do it justice, it is really something! It's a must-have if you have even a passing interest in nano jets :) I should have clocked it, but from what I could see it certainly appears faster than any of the depron nanos I've seen & flown. This is probably because it has an airfoil. Plus the airframe is super clean on it, everything is tucked inside. I greatly look forward to having one of my own :D

[turbonut]

So do I... I hope I am on the list for one!
Scott

[Dentar]

I love it!

I would like one as well please.

[roccobro]

I PM'd him a while back about being put on a "list", but can't find the reply (if there was one). She looks great even sitting still. Got a spare EDF-40 in the mail, and the Stealth-E would love to have a friend. :D

Justin

[Joe41]

If you start a pre-order list Thomas could ya put me on it? Hope you post to Australia.
Joe

[ARCHER7153]

Put me down for one also

[Joe41]

Howzit going Thomas? Any more progress with the model?
Joe

[frankenfoamy]

Thomas stopped by my flying field this morning.
The micro jet is Awesome :eek:

Flies like a much bigger plane and this was in gusting wind.

Looks like it will be a quick build from a kit.

http://rcguy.tripod.com

[Thomas B]

Hello, folks...sorry about the delay.

There has been some progress on the kit. I have decided to invest in better female molds for the little ME so that it will have panel line and rivet detail. The new patterns are almost ready to be molded.

Kits are still a couple of months away, so be patient...it will be a better product.

I had a GREAT time flying it this week in San Diego at the Mission Bay field where the Mid Winter event is held. I am in San Diego for a couple of weeks for work. It was great fun to meet Frankenfoamy, who is easily as crazy as I am...:)

I will email all that have mentioned some interest as the kits come to life.

[Dick]

Please add me to the list......Dick

[Joe41]

HI Thomas how's the ME comming along? Any sign of the kit yet?
Joe

[turbonut]

What ever happened to this baby?
Scott