UAV for Profit Business

[Rhathid]

This UAV stuff keeps looking easier and easier to me.

I'm now seriously considering starting a for-profit business entity with the sole purpose of developing UAV's. I'm not talking things like the global hawk either, I think you know what I mean.

I need 1 or 2 other people interested in this, that have the time and money to do it. It won't be a full time gig, it would just be something we touch base on, maybe 1 to 2 times a month. We'll come up with a project and assign tasks to each other.

I need some business savvy people. Programming and hardware skills would be needed at some level. I'd like to do all the programming but it would help to have people who know how to program so the project is understood by everybody. I'm still fairly new at programming PIC's, so if anybody is skilled in that let me know. The PIC's would be used to interface the Palm Pilot to the receiver/servo's to control the flight of the plane. A background in electronics would be perfect.

You need to have enough money to fly out to meet in various locations if this takes and we are able to develop a fully functional UAV. Business professional experience is a plus.

I'd like somebody who has worked in a business environment and given presentations. I myself give presentations all the time, I've done it for GM, Ford, and a lot of your Fortune 100 companies.

I also have access to captial investors, I'd like to find some people who also have this kind of access. The project would be confidential since it would be for profit.

This is something I could do on my own, but it would be much better to have a small team so we could keep each other motivated.

A project like this would probably take 2 years from start until prototype. Only because the complicated parts would be programming, programming, and programming. Design of the aircraft would be the fun and easy part, making the UAV eletronics functional would be the hard part.

If the project fails, at least it would be fun! ;)

Contact me if interested, but seriously, be able to afford it and have the skills required. I know everybody would love to do something like this, but if you don't have the ability to catch a business flight and meet and give a presentation to possible clients then this isn't for you.

That being said, this may never get off the ground, but all good things start as ideas.

I already know this project will require about $3500-4000 to start, mainly to get access to GPS mapping software source code which runs about $1500. Figure on $2000 easy on hardware, and the rest is just nickle and dime stuff.

In order for a for-profit business to get government benefits or write-off's and captial, it must make a profit in 3 out of the last 5 years it has existed. This would be a long term project.

If a business fails to make a profit in 3 out of 5 years, the government considers it a hobby.

I thought you guys might like to know that one. You can write off some expenses to your hobby if it was intended to be a business but fails to make a profit.

[Rhathid]

Anybody here know the specifics on the RC plane transmitter/receiver's as far as the signal they output? One of the things I'm thinking about would mean modifying the signal a little bit, not the frequency, but sending some additional data in the TX that is then decoded by the receiver. It would be extremely simple data, such as a binary value of the letter Z or something. Basically CMDA for RC planes, that way transmitters on the same frequency won't interfere with the UAV. (Is this already being done???)

[Rhathid]

And a little more research...

L1 (1575.42MHz):
Carries a publicly usable coarse-acquisition (C/A) code as well as an encrypted P(Y) code.
L2 (1227.60MHz):
Usually carries only the P(Y) code. The encryption keys required to directly use the P(Y) code are tightly controlled by the U.S. government and are generally provided only for military use. The keys are changed on a daily basis. In spite of not having the P(Y) code encryption key, several high-end GPS receiver manufacturers have developed techniques for utilizing this signal (in a round-about manner) to increase accuracy and remove error caused by the ionosphere.
L3 (1381.05MHz):
Carries the signal for the GPS constellation's alternate role of detecting missile/rocket launches (supplementing Defense Support Program satellites), nuclear detonations, and other high-energy infrared events.
L4 (1841.40MHz):
Being studied for additional ionospheric correction.
L5 (1176.45MHz):
Proposed for use as a civilian safety-of-life signal.

I see you can buy a GPS receiver for a Palm Pilot for about $100.

I suppose for the initial project, usually commercially available equipment would do. I have found a lot of data that can be used to make your own receiver though.

Most of it is just numbers and what not, that get translated into usable data. The receiver isn't too complicated from what I can tell. Mainly it just sorts out the signals from the GPS satellites. They are offset (again, CMDA) so that all 6 GPS satellites can transmit on the same frequency. Example:

0,"1234",55,"10255","8750",36,"77",0,"2345",0,"1234",55,"1025","850",32,"75",0,"yaddayadda"

Where 0 identifies which satellite sent the data stream. Most of the data being sent is UTC time in seconds since Jan 6th 1980 (kind of like Unix). Then to get GPS data, you have to do a bunch of math functions.

There are a number of programming languages to do this. I've done this in PHP, but it's not to different from C or Java.

distance = r * acos(cos(lat1) * cos(lon1) * cos(lat2) * cos(lon2) +
cos(lat1) * sin(lon1) * cos(lat2) * sin(lon2) + sin(lat1) * sin(lat2));

r -- radius of the Earth
lat1 -- latitude of point 1 in radians
lon1 -- longitude of point 1 in radians
lat2 -- latitude of point 2 in radians
lon2 -- longitude of point 2 in radians

radians = deg2rad(degrees + minutes / 60 + seconds / 3600);

Anyway, very interesting stuff.

I know it would be easiest to just use what's available, but if you're going to be for profit, ya might as well do it up and make everything yourself if it's more profitable. As far as I see it, the big cost in the GPS receiver is the programming that calculates the GPS coordinates. Nothing a Z80 rabbit microcontroller or highend PIC can't handle I'm sure, it's just math.

[Rhathid]

Just tacking on useful links. I figure I can just come here to find all my bookmarks, as well as share them with everybody else.

Learned a lot more about how GPS works in the last couple hours.

Great resources here..
http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps_f.html

[Rhathid]

GPS Satellite Ephemeris Parameters to XYZ Code
04/26/95

Peter H. Dana

Department of Geography, University of Texas at Austin

Send mail to: pdana@mail.utexas.edu

GPS Satellite XYZ Position from Ephemeris Parameters
Please use this code at your own risk. This code is provided for those who are curious about GPS algorithms. Please do not use this code for navigation. Code for a navigation receiver should contain safeguards against out-of-tolerance parameters and arguments and be the result of a careful software development program.
The Ephemeris data structure is defined at the end of this page. The GPS Time structure keeps GPS Time as Weeks and Seconds (from Jan. 5 midnight/Jan. 6 morning of 1980.) Note that this code calls a routine kepler() to solve Kepler's equation for mean anomaly by iteration. This module is printed here after the end of the ephxyz() routine. WEEK and HALFWEEK are constants in seconds (604800 and 302400). OMEGA_DOT_E is the WGS-84 Value of the Earth's Rotation Rate (7.2921151467 E-05 rads/sec). In the computation of the relativistic correction (svs->rel, used in the SV clock correction algorithm) C is the speed of light (2.99792458E+08 m/s) and F is a constant (4.442807633E-10) based on the value MU (3.986005 E14 m^3/s^2) the WGS-84 Earths Universal Graviational Constant and C (F=-2(MU)^.5/C^2).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


/* ephxyz.cpp */

/* xyz and relativistic correction from ephemeris data */

/* ************************************ */

/* Peter H. Dana */

/* POB 1297 */

/* Georgetown, TX 78627 */

/* ************************************ */

#include "gsinclud.h"

int ephxyz(ephemeris,gpstime,svs)

struct ephemeris_struct *ephemeris; /* pointer to ephemeris */

struct gpstime_struct *gpstime; /* pointer to gps time */

struct sv_struct *svs; /* pointer to svs */


{

/* ecef xyz from icd-gps-200 */

/* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! */

/* ! this software assumes that all semicircle parameters ! */

/* ! have been converted to radians. ! */

/* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! */


double n0; /* computed mean motion */

double n; /* corrected mean motion */

double tk; /* time from ephemeris reference epoch */

double mk; /* mean anomaly */

double ek; /* eccentric anomaly */

double vk; /* true anomaly */

double pk; /* argument of latitude */

double sin2pk; /* sin 2*pk */

double cos2pk; /* cos 2*pk */

double uk; /* corrected agument of latitude */

double duk; /* latitude correction */

double drk; /* radius correction */

double dik; /* inclination correction */

double rk; /* corrected radius */

double ik; /* corrected inclination */

double xkp; /* x position in orbital plane */

double ykp; /* y position in orbital plane */

double ok; /* corrected longitude of ascending node */

double sinok; /* sin of ok */

double cosok; /* cos of ok */

double ykpcosik; /* ykp * cos (ik) */

double sinvk; /* sin (vk) */

double cosvk; /* cos (vk) */

double sinek; /* sin (ek) */

double cosek; /* cos (ek) */


/* *********** */

svs->id=ephemeris->id;

n0=sqrt(MU/pow(ephemeris->sqrta,6.0)); /* computed mean motion */

tk=gpstime->seconds-ephemeris->toe; /* time from ephemeris epoch */

if (tk>HALFWEEK) tk-=WEEK;

if(tk<-HALFWEEK) tk+=WEEK;

n=n0+ephemeris->dn; /* corrected mean motion */

mk=ephemeris->ma+n*tk; /* mean anomaly */

kepler(&mk,&ephemeris->ecc,&ek); /* kepler's equation for eccentric anomaly */

cosek=cos(ek);

sinek=sin(ek);

cosvk=(cosek-ephemeris->ecc);

sinvk=sqrt(1.0-ephemeris->ecc*ephemeris->ecc)*sinek;

vk=atan2(sinvk,cosvk); /* true anomaly */

if (vk<0.0) vk+=2*PI;

pk=vk+ephemeris->aop; /* argument of latitude */

sin2pk=sin(2.0*pk);

cos2pk=cos(2.0*pk);

duk=ephemeris->cus*sin2pk+ephemeris->cuc*cos2pk; /* argument of latitude correction */

drk=ephemeris->crc*cos2pk+ephemeris->crs*sin2pk; /* radius correction */

dik=ephemeris->cic*cos2pk+ephemeris->cis*sin2pk; /* correction to inclination */

uk=pk+duk; /* latitude */

rk=ephemeris->sqrta*ephemeris->sqrta*(1.0-ephemeris->ecc*cosek)+drk; /* corrcted radius */

ik=ephemeris->oinc+dik+ephemeris->idot*tk; /* corrected inclination */

xkp=rk*cos(uk); /* x in orbital plane */

ykp=rk*sin(uk); /* y in orbital plane */

ok=ephemeris->omega0+(ephemeris->omegadot-OMEGA_DOT_E)*tk-OMEGA_DOT_E*

ephemeris->toe; /* longitude of ascending node */

ykpcosik=ykp*cos(ik);

sinok=sin(ok);

cosok=cos(ok);


/* sv xyz */

svs->xyz.x=xkp*cosok-ykpcosik*sinok;

svs->xyz.y=xkp*sinok+ykpcosik*cosok;

svs->xyz.z=ykp*sin(ik);


/* sv relativistic correction in meters */

svs->rel=C*F*ephemeris->sqrta*ephemeris->ecc*sinek;


/* set time tag */

svs->iode=ephemeris->iode2;

return(1);

} /* module end */







Kepler's Eccentric Anomaly




/* kepler.cpp */

#include "gsinclud.h"

kepler(mk,ecc,ek)

double *mk;

double *ecc;

double *ek;

/* keplers eccentric anomaly */

{

/* iteration with wegstein's accelerator */


double x;

double y;

double x1,y1,x2;


int i;



x=*mk;

y=*mk-(x-*ecc*sin(x));

x1=x;

x=y;


for(i=0;i<16;i++){


x2=x1;

x1=x;

y1=y;

y=*mk-(x-*ecc*sin(x));

if(fabs(y-y1)<1.0E-15) break;

x=(x2*y-x*y1)/(y-y1);

} /* for iterations */

*ek=x;

}/* program done */





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ephemeris Data Structure



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

/* ephemeris structure */

struct ephemeris_struct {

int id; /* sv id PRN code */

double ma; /* mean anomaly radians */

double dn; /* mean motion difference */

double ecc; /* eccentricity */

double sqrta; /* square root of semi-major axis */

double omega0; /* longitude of ascending node */

double oinc; /* oribtal inclination */

double aop; /* angle of perigee */

double omegadot; /* rate of right ascension */

double idot; /* rate of inclination angle */

double cuc; /* cosine correction to latitude */

double cus; /* sine correction to latitude */

double crc; /* cosine correction to radius */

double crs; /* sine correction to radius */

double cic; /* cosine correction to inclination */

double cis; /* sine correction to inclination */

long toe; /* reference time ephemeris */

long iode2; /* subframe 2 issue of data ephemeris */

long iode3; /* subframe 3 issue of data ephemeris */

};

[Rhathid]

GPSPilot for Palm
http://www.gpspilot.com/products/fly.shtml

[Rhathid]

General:
Standard Log Capacity 5000 position and event records in non-volatile memory Optional Log Capacity 25000 position and event records in non-volatile memory Discretes 4 Programmable as Input or Output

Architecture:
Channels 12 simultaneous, all-in-view
Frequency L1 1575.42 MHz
Tracking C/A code & carrier
Flash ROM 256 k x 16
Static RAM 64 k x 16
Processor Speed Hitachi SH-1 at 12.288 MHz

Dynamics:
Altitude -1000 m to 18,000 m
Velocity 500 meters per second
Acceleration 4 g
Jerk 5 meters/second3

Acquisition:
Cold Start < 50 seconds (average)
Warm Start < 40 seconds (current position, time, and almanac)
Hot Start < 8 seconds (current position, time, almanac, and ephemeris)
Snap Start 3.5 seconds (average)
Reacquisition 100 milliseconds

Accuracy:
Position (SA on) 100 meters 2d RMS
Position (SA off) < 25 meter SEP
DGPS 1 to 5 meters
Timing, 1PPS (SA on) < 300 ns, dynamic
Timing, 1PPS (SA off) < 75 ns, dynamic
Receiver Sensitivity -143.5 dB-Hz

Physical:
Dimensions 41.91 x 71.88 x 8.76 mm (1.65 x 2.83 x 0.35 in)
Weight 19.84 g (0.7 oz)

Electrical:
Operating Voltage 5 ± 0.25 Vdc, 50 mVp-p (max)

Power Consumption:
180 mA (continuous on)

Environmental:
Operating Temperatures -40° to + 85° C
Storage Temperatures -55° to + 125° C
Operating Humidity 5% to 95% R.H., Non-condensing, @ + 60° C
Shock 20 g (11 ms sawtooth)
Vibration 4 g


20 pin Connector (J1) Pinout
PIN # I/O1 Signal Name Description
1 I ANT_PWR DC power to active antenna. Connect 5 or 3 volts, depending on the active antenna being used. Typically 20 to 30ma.
2 I VCC_5V Regulated 5.0VDC +/- 5% input power.
180mA typical.
3 I VBAT Battery backup input. 2V to VCC + 0.5 V.
10uA typical.
4 I N/C

5 I PBRESN Manual reset input (ground to reset receiver). Leave floating for normal operation. The minimum pulse width is 10 us resulting in a 140 ms reset signal.
6 I/O GPIO1 General purpose I/O 1
7 I/O GPIO2 General purpose I/O 2
8 I/O GPIO3 General purpose I/O 3
9 I/O GPIO4 General purpose I/O 4
10 I GND Ground
11 O TXA Port A Serial Transmit Data. VCC CMOS levels.
GPS messages.
12 I RXA Port A Serial Receive Data. VCC CMOS levels.
GPS commands.
13 I GND Ground
14 O TXB Port B Serial Transmit Data. VCC CMOS levels.
15 I RXB Port B Serial Receive Data. VCC CMOS levels.
Differential GPS messages.
16 I GND Ground
17 I BOOT Reserved for re-programming flash
18 I GND Ground
19 O TIMEMARK 1PPS (one pulse per second) output. Normally low with 100ms high pulse once every second
20 I PWRONOFF Reserved for future implementation of Push-to-Fix



Summary of Features Installed:


Power = +5vdc

Data Connector = Bottom Feed

RF Connector = Right angle SMA

ROM & RAM Sizes = 4 Megabits Flash ROM; 1 Megabits RAM

Super Cap = NOT INSTALLED

Data = RS-232 Interface

Software = NMEA @ 4800 baud, 8 N, 1


######

This GPS module costs about $9, it just needs the software written for it. Not complicated calculations needs either since it outputs post-calculated data via the NMEA standard. Sure beats $100+ and not being able to interface directly. This would allow you to take the actually GPS coordinates and manipulate them to control your plane. Fairly basic math skills, maybe a little trig would be needed, but nothing too complicated. The math formula's are already out there. I posted the hardest one above.

This is a little bigger than a quarter. I've emailed some other companies that make a $6 GPS module using the latest standards with an accuracy of less than 1 meter. (Thanks for the deregulation Bill Clinton)

[Arp]

Regarding the possibility of *building* a GPS receiver... I would not recommend that. (I suspect it would become a pointlessly large quantity of work, only tangentially related to actual flying.)

The above-presented module, however... looks fairly reasonable. :)

Thanks to onboard decoding and RS-232 output, it should integrate into systems about as easily as any handheld unit -- just without the needless baggage (screens, buttons, etc).

As such... it appears a good candidate for autonomous gadgets (and it seems cheap, although I sincerely doubt you can get retail quantities for $9 apiece -- more like $40).

I would, however... state my doubts regarding the altitude precision of common GPS units. (Seen plenty of read-outs telling me that I'm in stratosphere, when in fact, I'm on the fourth floor.)

[Majortomski]

Since you are hoping to go UAV on this I STRONGLY suggest you contact your local FAA FSDO and review the regulations you will be operating under, and be required to meet.

Tom

[Rhathid]

That's a give in if I ever get that close, just getting a GPS telemetry system developed is something that could take a year. I would think as long as the plane is in line of sight and can be controlled by a transmitter is needed, then it's still considered an RC plane. If I ever got to the point of an actual UAV I would take care of all the legal and government paperwork.

[danstrider]

That's a give in if I ever get that close, just getting a GPS telemetry system developed is something that could take a year. I would think as long as the plane is in line of sight and can be controlled by a transmitter is needed, then it's still considered an RC plane.

I am also trying to do this step, making a gps telemetry system. I will likewise be controlling the plane LOS with an RC transmitter, later down the road transfer control to an autopilot.

See my website for my personal project:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~djedward/auto_soaring

Try this website for a GPS interface:
http://home.arcor.de/d_meissner/d_logg2_engl.htm

Gotta have the cash to spend to get into this stuff.... you want to sponsor a college UAV club? Good place to find new recruits :-) PM me if you're interested. (http://www.ncsu.edu/stud_orgs/ar)

Thanks for the bandwidth,
Dan

[rjet]

Rhathid,
I think it is a great idea to build your own UAV. However, do realize that there are many people out there building them who are probably only making around $10K a year off their businesses even with over $10K of startup costs invested. If profit is your primary interest, then I would suggest teaming up with an engineer who has designed a few good UAV's but is unemployed and can't afford to fly cross-country. Unless you are just seeking investors...

[joelhaasnoot]

Ok, I may have missed this... but who makes this GPS receiver? Any links? It sounds real good and pretty good to use for telemetry data and so on. Where can I find this?

[Arp]

It seems to originate from Axiom Navigation.

But I have *not* touched one personally. When I needed a little GPS module, I bought a fairly ordinary "mouse" GPS -- sized approximately like a computer mouse, connects over USB (I was flat out of real serial ports), shows up as an USB virtual serial port (Prolific 2303 chipset). It cost notably more, though -- around 70 €.

(Although by today's standards, the module I have is probably outdated already.)

[joelhaasnoot]

Ok, Axiom seems to have merged with another company. The website couldn't be reached (http://www.axiomnav.com) Anybody got any other suggestions for small, affordable GPS modules?

[danstrider]

Not sure what you mean "affordable," but if you're looking for the $150 price range, try:
www.u-blox.com

I have their SAM module (integrated antenna and receiver combo) and it is smaller than half a credit card. I'm putting it into a Drela designed fuselage, which are known for being small. I bet it would fit into a DLG pod where a gyro would normally go...

You just hook up power and it spews NMEA formatted gps... easy!

Pics: http://www4.ncsu.edu/~djedward/auto_soaring/progress.html

Dan

[PlaneJames]

I don't know for sure, but I believe the FAA "Advisory Circular" (AC) that covers R/C states for "Sport and Recreation". "For Hire" or "For Profit" would make you other than a hobbiest. I think you would be considered an "Aircraft" - FAA Part 21, 23, and 91..... That would be tough and exspensive!

Don't know for sure.... You may want to contact your local FSDO.

James

[Dave Jones]

Rhathid

Why don't you save your self a lot of work and time and just buy my UAV business, ( AUAV.net )
Until now I have not thought about selling it but if you are serious about starting a UAV business and as you say you have the money then make me an offer.
You can see all of the products that we have developed on the AUAV web site at http://www.auav.net/
Please keep in mind that I will not give it away so any offer had better have quite a few zeros behind it.
Dave Jones
AUAV.net

[gearup]

FAA/FSDO

I believe there is going to be a great conflict of airspace in regards to UAV application and class B airspace... I'll check with my FSDO and see what Ok City has proposed.. I wold guess that a waiver is granted with limits of alititude, area of operation, crew qualifications, etc... similar to LOA

[Spencer J]

www.wheelingap.com

I beleave Kyle G, a member ofthe RCGoroups board, runs this AP busniess. :)

SCJohn

[itdontgo]

Hi,

Firstly I think you may be going about this in a rather odd way. With so many GPS modules available on the market why try and develop one? You're an UAV business right? Not a GPS business.

Instead of worrying about the electronics etc... which we all know can be done I would be more concerned with finding ways of making money out of an UAV business. Whats all the talk about presentations? Who are you planning on presenting to? You can always find someone who can help you with marketing.

I run an electronics company in the UK. Where will the sales come from is all I want to know whatever venture I am starting out on.

Who is going to give you some money for the service your UAV provides or give you some money for the equipment you sell. And will there always be people lining up to buy stuff off you?

I would love to be able to make money out of this but I dont see how. As far as I know you must still be able to see your UAV and fly it with a remote for it to be air-worthy and that severly limits your market.

There are two businesses which I believe could benefit from UAVs and they are surveillance and transportation. Transportation is probably not an option due to regulations and payload/cost. Surveillance might be an option for people with large plots of land/farmers.

Before I put any effort in to making anything I would want to know that someone will end up giving me some money. Do you know any successful UAV businesses and what kind of money they make?


As far as what I have seen technically there seems to be a lot of poorly designed stuff out there and some shoddy code. I could honestly do a much better job than what these hobbyists do but would have to know there was more to it than just 'fun.'

[itdontgo]

Rhathid

Why don't you save your self a lot of work and time and just buy my UAV business, ( AUAV.net )
Until now I have not thought about selling it but if you are serious about starting a UAV business and as you say you have the money then make me an offer.
You can see all of the products that we have developed on the AUAV web site at http://www.auav.net/
Please keep in mind that I will not give it away so any offer had better have quite a few zeros behind it.
Dave Jones
AUAV.net

Do you make any money? Whats is your turnover/profit? Who gives you the money? Are you regulated by an authority? Aren't these the questions everyone should be asking before they even think about a UAV business?

[Unterhausen]

Do you make any money? Whats is your turnover/profit? Who gives you the money? Are you regulated by an authority? Aren't these the questions everyone should be asking before they even think about a UAV business?

You should note the date on the posts you are replying to. those people may no longer monitor this board.

[bmw330i]

You should note the date on the posts you are replying to. those people may no longer monitor this board.
lol, until you wrote this I had not checked the dates. Looks like this thread is from 2005. Wow, a lot has changed since then. Wonder if he's gotten rich yet :D

[Gary Mortimer]

itdontgo still makes a valid point though, theres lots of noise and ra ra ra about autopilots but we see very few actually working.

The big success has to be cropcam, thats more about the end result not the autopilot itself.

I'm looking forward to the time, and its coming when the units that are bought are just x y or z and we are hearing more of the work thats being done with them rather than how they work.

Regulations are going to be an issue but in sight of the operator and below 400' could still be flipping handy. All this over the horizon for 30 hours stuff really is a little over the top and will certainly worry the grown ups.

Right off the bat I have two uses I can think of. Both like crop cam really.

[Connexxion]

Wish there was a small airborn fishfinder...

Possible customers for your small uav activities:

-landowners (crops,fence checking,cattle control)
-builders (to provide customers pictures of their new born house being build)
-agency brokers (to provide pictures of the properties their customers might be interested in)

-TV stations (provide them birds-eye view images)

You might be surprised by the numbers of ways to make money out of a small model plane with both a camera and an autopilot.

And if you keep the price comfortable for the (new) customers,you might have a queue longer than ever expected.

Keep them ideas coming!