Best Sailplane Transmitters

[Ric Duley]

I know there have been some threads in the past on this issue but it's been some time since the last one. There have also been some new releases (Futaba 9C) that would be good to hear about. I'd like to hear some opinions of those now that they've owned their radios for a while.
It would also be good to hear about some of the limitations of some of the more "popular" radios, such as the Hitec Flash 5 and Eclipse, the Futaba 6XA, DA and the JR and Airtronics choices.

[Tim Jonas]

dude, you changed your avatar!

Still using the JR X347 for the last 11 years or so. Does what I need it to do.

[Haldor]

Originally posted by Ric Duley


One advice - get a tray transmitter.

[opualuan]

some other advice... DON'T get a tray transmitter.

:p

it's an individual preference, I don't like tray radios myself...

I've had an airtronics stylus for ~4 months, very happy so far... gavoss on ezone will sell it for ~$320 I believe (he is an authorized dealer)... I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do, but fit, finish, battery life, features have all left me pleased... I love having 50 model memories, too (memory card).

for US use the only tx in the same league I believe is the futaba 9z/c/whatever and the jr 10x, and multiplex profi 3030/4xxx series. all of them are nearly twice the price (from what I saw). I have heard the 10x is a bear to program. I know little about the futaba, I have jr-shift stuff so I ruled them out for that and the price... also seems like a heli-centric tx from the people I have heard that use it, no sailplane guys?? the profi series seems like the most flexible overall, but with flexibility comes complexity to do simple things sometimes. also very pricey, and replacement parts... well, multiplex has a kinda bad record in terms of product delivery lately...

[Quacker]

I own 2 JR 8103's and I love them. The ease of graphic programming and generous mixing ability make it a really great "one Tx fits all" Transmitter. The box is much lighter than the Stylus and uses less power so the batteries last longer too. I had been contimplating selling one, so if you're interested, drop me a line and we can talk about it. In any event, i suggest that you check it out. BTW I use mine for a open class glider with 6 servo's in the wings +2 for the tail. Everything is mixed and various mixing modes are modified by mode switches for normal/cambered, speed mode, landing mode, light lift mode.

Q

[R. Carver]

I've got the 8103. It works well for me.
I've heard that the Stylus programming is a little involved, however a clubmember has one and loves it. He said that programming didn't give him a problem at all. Of course he IS a rocket scientist (really, he works for NASA) :)

[Aikens]

It seems that everyone likes their radio the best...

I like my Futaba 8U Super, but to be honest, it's the only programmable transmitter I've ever used. So my opinion is pretty biased! :D

[Haldor]

Originally posted by Gary Retterbush
Multiplex 4000! Simply the easiest to use and also the most powerful.

..or the Graupner MC24.. ;) Those are the two top contenders IMO.

[opualuan]

I could be wrong, but I thought graupner didn't make tx's on 72mhz? if they don't, it's not really an option to the thread starter who lives in the us where 41mhz/etc is not a legal frequency for rc planes...

[Gary Retterbush]

Multiplex 4000! Simply the easiest to use and also the most powerful.

[NickW]

Ok, for entry level pilots looking to buy a computer radio that they can use with fullhouse six servo ships, you cant go wrong with the JR378 (used to be the 783). Its not quite released yet but is expected soon.

A step up from that is the 8103 which I currently fly. I love it. It does anything you need it to and is very easy to program and use. No complaints from me.

The stylus is a great radio, but as with every radio you have to be careful how you program it. It can do some strange things like deactivate your elevator trim while in certain modes such as launch. As long as you know this and understand how it works you will be fine. Personally I think its way too heavy, but maybe Im a wuss :D

I looked long and hard at the JR10x, great radio, extremely flexible, but a little pricy for me. The future of computer radios is clearly to be able to assign anything to any switch, input, stick, whatever. Certain companies like Multiplex realize this. But most companies reserve those features for their ultra high end stuff. I like my 8103 because of all the built in programming, but I would prefer something with a bit more flexibility like the multiplex. But without the pizzabox syndrome.!

Sheesh.. have I rambled on enough yet???

Happy Thermals

Nick Wisdom
Orlando, FL

[ScotY]

I have an 8103. Two limitations that have troubled me is the inability to program in reverse differential and lack of switch assignments. This made me buy another radio. :rolleyes:

I picked up an 8U Super. It should be able to do what I want but I have had trouble getting used to the programming. This is my fault, I've had JR radios for too long. I'll learn eventually. One thing I don't care for is the "feel" of the case...again, probably because I've had JR radios for too long.

I've been planning to sell both of these txs and just get one. Problem is, I don't know what to get. Add to the challenge, I fly helicopters too. I was considering a 9C but I own so many positive shift rxs that it would not be the ideal tx at this time.

Some Stylus questions...do you need the helicopter card to do CCPM mixing? Not sure if anyone here can answer that. Do you "need" to get the glider card for a six servo v-tail glider? How many model memories without the memory card?

Has anyone heard about the latest Multiplex tx? It's not a tray radio (yay!) and looks pretty cool. The sticks can be angled to make the feel more natural. Can't recall the price, but it was up there.

[opualuan]

well, first of all you can get the stylus, tuned module w/crystal, battery, and trickle charger for ~$315 from george voss (gavoss here on ezone). awesome time to buy a stylus, looks like card production is finally on track.

I have just scraped the surface of my stylus, I have the glider card but don't have a model complex enough to use it. I'm not sure of an example of what it can do that the built-in can't but I'm sure a very complex mixing routine would require it.

the stylus has a 4-memory buffer. you basically use the 50-model card like a mini floppy disk, load the models you want to use to the radio from the card, eject the card, then pop in your glider or heli card if the program you loaded needs it. it would be nice if the stylus could have a couple more models in memory, but I always keep the card in my stylus, even though 4 planes is 2 more than I can carry all the way up the hill to the slope!

I don't know the cost of the multiplex, but from george voss you get one of the top radios for what a lot of manufacturers charge for their mid-grade radios. I personally would tend to ignore multiplex, their record for getting planes to the states has not been that good, I don't know if I'd want to have to send my tx to germany if I have a problem. airtronics is near LA I think, same state for me, yay! no problems, yet, though, dang! ;)

[Gary Retterbush]

MPX has repair facilities in the States (but they are seldom needed). Not trying to sell MPX, just stating a fact.

[Ollie]

Try to anticipate your needs over the next few years. Don't buy a transmitter that is more complex than necessary to barely meet your needs. Go for a unit that has the minimum number of switches and dials you will need. Favor a transmitter that has the ability to deactivate unused switches and dials. Many planes have been lost by using a program for the wrong plane, a bumped switch or a dial in the wrong place. Simplicity results in user friendliness and reliability. The transmitter can become the dominant part of your prelaunch checklist.

[rlt55]

If you plan to fly just the basic stuff, the Flash 5 might work out for you. It can be set up for spoilerons for those short LZs.
It takes about 3 seconds to change model selection. (5 model memory)

After that, your Tx check list is:
1. Look at the model # on the LCD.
2. Make sure (3) toggle switches are set. (Mine are all up).
3. Pull up the whip.
4. Throttle min. (if you have a motor).

The manual is down-loadable from the HiTec Website.

The last three pages have the sail-plane setup info.

Cheers,
Rich<>

[Ric Duley]

Hi rlt55:
I do happen to already have the Flash 5. It's my first computer radio after returning to the hobby from a long break.
Thus far it meets my needs but I can see I'm going to outgrow it soon. It is a great "entry level", inexpensive transmitter. I bought it used but in like new condition for $61.00! It's worked flawlessly for 9 months and I'm very happy with it.
I had my eye on an Eclipse but it looks like it also is lacking in some sailplane features, such as the ability to do CROW. :(
I've looked at the Airtronics Stylus but it's a bit pricey, especially once you add the sailplane and memory cards, which apparently are hard to get.
I ruled out JR - don't want to have to get new receivers and the 10X is just too much $$$.
I originally started this thread hoping to get some comments on the new Futaba 9C, but it's so new it may be too early yet. I did get to play with one just a few days ago. It has a LOT of features for the money.

[Don Cohn]

Originally posted by Ric Duley
...I had my eye on an Eclipse but it looks like it also is lacking in some sailplane features, such as the ability to do CROW...

While I admit that I have no plane capable of using a crow function yet, my Eclipse 7 manual has a whole page (#34) on crow mixing. But what do I know... You might want check with Mike Mayberry in the "Ask Mike at Hitec" thread. (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35170)

Don

[Ric Duley]

Don:
That sounds to me like it does crow! I read somewhere on Ezone that it wasn't capable of doing it but I'd say your manual disproves that. I wish Hitec had the Eclipse manual on-line like they do the Flash 5. I'll leave a question for Mike.
I'd like to hear from others of what the Eclipse CAN'T do - otherwise I can see one of those in my future.
Thanks!

[SoarNeck]

There is a MPX repair facility. I believe it's in Washington state (Ernie is the gents name), and he does all sorts of wonderful things, like converting recievers to negative shift and making MPX TX's shift convertable with the flick of a switch.

I can tell you why I moved to a 3030 from a Futaba 8UAF, if that might help. I think the Eclipse is designed to compete with the 8U, so they should be pretty similar.

1) Model memories - 100 vs 8 (or 16 with the card). You think 16 would be enough...but it isn't. Especially if you like to have different setups for slope/thermal flying, like I do.

2) No camber sliders on the 8U. Yes, you can do it on the throttle stick and switch between Crow/camber, but you only have to try thermalling with crow and landing with camber once during a contest to realize how stupid that system is. Rotary knobs are completely unintuitive, and aren't easy to manipulate without taking your fingers off the sticks.

3) Butterfly operation. I HATE having only one value to set for spoileron action (ie both ailerons deflect the same amount). It's crude, and sometimes the geometry gets a little funky.

4) Ch7 must be "such and such." For hand launch especially, this is a pain.

5) The MPX automatically and progressively suppresses differential under crow, leading to less adverse yaw concerns. It also has an end-point set which won't overdrive servo endpoints when aileron input threatens to combine with spoileron.

6) Just a bonus, but the MPX will allow you to switch memories in-flight. That's nice for launch/speed/thermal/landing etc.

Hope that helps!

[SoarNeck]

To answer Ollie's point, the 3030 allows for adding/removing however many switches you need. It's a neat system, and you can move them to whatever point you need on the case. No more prickly-pear TX's!

[R. Carver]

I think-and don't hold me to this- that the Eclipse lacks the ability to put crow AND camber on the stick. If I remember right, camber has to be adjusted by the pot, which would be inconvenient to say the least!

[MTT]

MPX's US Service center is located in Arizona and is run by Ernie Pritchard.
And, yes, I agree with Soarneck : The only TX better than the MPX profi 3030 is the profi 4000 !

Michael

[opualuan]

um, how much do the profi 3030 and 4000 sell for, tx, battery, and tx module/crystal? aren't they way up there?

my stylus was under $320... memory card was $80... sailplane card was $115... so $515 all-up.

[NickW]

In addition to Rusty's comments, I think the other issue with the Eclipse is that it will not do full span camber control. I have heard it lacks the ability to link the ailerons to the flaps.

Nick

[opualuan]

that's what I thought. I guess pricewise for sailplane functionality the 3000 is in the same range. I've just never been a fan of tray radios, or I may have considered the multiplex. it's most likely more a function of personal preference look/feel/programming mentality at this level I would guess...

[MTT]

Yes , the 3030 and 4000 are intended as tray-type tx's, but the sticks are mounted pretty close to the edge, so you can also use it as a hand-held TX, and steer with your thumbs.
At least I do.

Michael

[Ric Duley]

GREAT Info, Everybody!
I have looked at the Multiplex radios. I liked the Cockpit but it looks like it lacks a few desirable features of the "high end" radios.
The 3030 is a great radio but pricey. They are positive shift but a shift selection switch can be added. For some reason they aren't offered on channel 54, thus necessitating getting new crystals for all my receivers. That's more annoying than a huge cost. The "tray radio" issue doesn't bother me much. I might even prefer it.

The Airtronics Stylus is also a great radio but would require getting all new receivers, since all my present one's are negative shift. For me, that's probably not something I'd want to do.

Decisions, decisions. :rolleyes:

[SoarNeck]

Those new prices are kind of scary! To think that I bought my 3030 TX, with aluminum case, for $690 Cdn (~$445 Am).

BTW Ric, the Stylus is shift selectable +/-

[Ric Duley]

Hi SoarNeck:
I thought the Stylus was selectable and even went to the Airtronics web site but couldn't find any mention of it. I probably just missed it. Of course you realize that just makes my choices more complicated. :rolleyes: Or maybe easier.
For some reason I can see I'll be spending more than I planned. How unusual!

[opualuan]

the stylus will do ppm (+ shift), ppm inv (- shift), and pcm (programmed crash mode ;) )

it was confusing to me as well, but there is only one stylus, and you can pick, per program, which shift for ppm or even use pcm. so, setup a v-tail glider with negative shift, setup a zagi with positive shift. when you change model programs, the shift changes for you. once you set which shift, it switches for you.

can someone elucidate why the mpx 4000 is twice as much as the 3000? that puts it more in the range of the futaba or 10x pricewise, doesn't it? apples to apples, even if the mpx 4000 can do some things airtronics can't, it's twice the price...

hey, I know the drill when I tried to find a stylus in the bay area... if anyone near san jose wants to check mine out in person, let me know...

[SoarNeck]

The 4000 is quite simply the most advanced TX on the planet. 10 FULLY PROPORTIONAL channels with greater resolution than most transmitters (greater than 3030), almost unlimited mixing on those channels, channel check, built in full-band frequency scanner, multi-point mixing, tachometer, built-in battery cycler yada yada yada.

The Stylus is powerful, but like all Japanese boxes it does things ONE way, and you have to know that ONE way. The flexibility of the MPX range is really nice, since things like 6-servo wings are easier to do.

That card thing would drive me nuts!! Having two models at the field with three flight modes each would mean swapping cards...yikes.

[Ron Cichowski]

Originally posted by Ric Duley
Don:
................... I wish Hitec had the Eclipse manual on-line like they do the Flash 5. I'll leave a question for Mike.
I'd like to hear from others of what the Eclipse CAN'T do - otherwise I can see one of those in my future.
Thanks!

All wishes should be this easy to fulfill!

http://www.hitecrcd.com/ServSup/Manuals/Eclipse7Manual.pdf

That was one of the things that lead me to buying this as a backup radio, the fact that the full manual was available for examination before purchase.

It is a 5MB file, if your connection is quick, no problem.

Ron

[Ric Duley]

Ron:
The last time I checked the Hitec web site the Eclipse manual wasn't on line. I will admit it's been awhile, though.
I downloaded it and at least will be able to look through it.
Thanks!!

[Kestrel]

I wanted to replace a couple of radios with one unit to simplify things and also get the advantages of a programable radio. The Eclipse price cought my eye but I had read all kinds of varying opinions as to what it would and wouldn't do. I did as Ron suggests. Downloaded the op. man. and studied it to determine for myself if it would fit my needs. It will do crow on the throttle stick. There is a 3 position switch, condition switch, 2 rotating knobs along with programable mixes and several other switches. As I understand it , it can't be programed to do some things as some of the others can but set up in other ways to do the same thing. Perhaps some of this is personal preference. To each his own. I bought the Eclipse based on the fact that it would do what I wanted it to do for now and in the forseeable future. Costing only perhaps $125 more than a lot of the 6 chanel radios on the market. I would at least check it out (in the manual) before making a final decision. It is a lot of radio for under $280!

[opualuan]

I don't agree with the statement that the stylus is limiting like those other 'japanese boxes'. first of all, I believe sanwa does the rf, and the sw was designed by airtronics in the US. am I wrong?

I have used jr. jr was limiting to me. I really don't think it's fair to classify the stylus in with a hitec or mid-range futaba... I have found it to be able to do anything I like.

if you have 4 VERY ADVANCED sailplanes at the field, you keep your sailplane card in the tx. no swapping. if you need to load another 4 sailplanes, you need to pop in a different card. it's really no big deal.

there is a drawback to being able to do EVERYTHING, ANY way you like. confusion. definitely not for someone without experience. it's like teaching a 6th grader C++ instead of basic. basic is limiting, but you can't hose a computer using basic! get my point?

plus, once again, it's not fair to compare the stylus to the mpx4000. I can buy two stylii for the price of one 4000.

probably the best selling case you can make is to give an example of where the mpx would work and the stylus wouldn't. a REAL LIFE example.

[Jeff Burg]

Compare to a Profi 4000? Why not compare it to my 100 model memory(standard) no glider card and not as expensive Profi 3030 .
It could have been worded "what can the Stylus do that the Multiplex Profi models(3030,4000) will not do.
This is a subject that you could beat to death!
There are several excellent programmable transmitters on the market. Airtronics, JR, Futaba, Multiplex, Graupner. You really can't say this one just blows all of the others off the market.
The real question would be how complex and flexable do you want the programming to be, do you what to open the box, charge it and go fly and how much money do you want to spend. Do you want predefined mixes and channel assignments(TX and RX) or do you want open architecture allowing total flexability?
I used JR for years having owned at one time or another every computer transmitter they made and was totally familiar with the software. 6 servo wings with the 8103 was simple. Nothing I couldn't configure but I found myself with about 6 transmitters to look after!
About a year and a half ago I sold them all and bought a Profi 3030 Transmitter ($330 including 8 switches) from Karlton at Multiplex USA. I Put 6- 3000 Nimh batteries in it(12 hrs on time) . Making the switch has been one of the best moves I made since I got into R/C in 1972. Some fliers don't like the flat European "Pizza Box" transmitters, I do. The Multiplex radios have a thin case and the sticks are set close to the sides so I can use it with a harness or holding it as I did with my JR's.
Buy what fits your flying style and pocket book.
Jeff Burg
Centennial, Colorado

[Ric Duley]

Jeff:
That's a great description of the 3030. After spending the last few weeks looking at virtually every high end transmitter available I feel it most fits my needs. I love the "open architecture" and have to admit I'm a sucker for German technology.
If I could buy one today for $330.00 I'd order it immediately! Unfortunately it's now $552.00. :mad:
It's hard to believe it went up that much in 1.5 years.

[denete]

I fly the Stylus for my TD planes and the RD6000 for handlaunch. Both are shift selectable. This is a feature that is worth every headache that I might have trying to do funky things with the Stylus. I never think twice about buying a receiver. I don't use PCM, so that isn't an issue. I believe that the Profi-camp is right. Their radio is probably much more flexible than the Stylus. But, more people were flying the Stylus in my club 80+% versus 0% for the Multiplex. Because of this I had very few problems in programming and a ton of help from friends when I first started out using it.

- David

[iankraus]

Over the last 20 years I have owned JR, Futaba, Airtronics and Hitec TX's.
Currently I use a Cockpit MM.
Of all the cheaper radio's this has the simplest and fastest programming -
all on one dial :-)
Also the quality and feel is like comparing a BMW to a KIA.
The thing i like most is the digital trims are actually easy to use in flight.
This radio has so many little things 'done right' the only thing I would trade it for is a 3030 or 4000.

[Jeff Burg]

Dente has good point. If you are new computer radios as we all were at one time, you are going to need some help or advice in programming. If the majority of the guys you fly with use the Airtronics radio than it would be a good idea to get something along that line.
Before I bought my 3030, I researched as much as I could about the programming. Mike Shellium in the UK has written an excellent programming manual for the 3030. You can go to his web site and download it. It's about 50 pages and it will walk you through step by step on glider setups including several examples. I believe he is working on one for the 4000. It is my understanding that the 4000 does not have an english programming manual. Use "Multiplex 3030" as a search word and his site will be on the list.
Ric, I subscribe to "Club Profi" which is a Multiplex users group and Karlton will run specials on the radios. He also will advertise them on his site, so keep an eye out and you can get a good deal. When I bought mine, he shipped it to me overnight at no additional charge. His customer service is second to none.
Opualaun stated in a post on the first page of this thread about having to send it back to Germany for service. Fortunately this is not the case. Ernie Pritchard in Payson, Arizona is the Multiplex USA Service Technician.
Jeff Burg
Centennial, Colorado

[SaltyOne]

I looked at the specs on the Multiplex Royal Evolution. The radio looked real impressive. It's similar to the Cockpit MM but with a lot more mixing flexibility. Some of the built in mixes are nice, such as v-tail rudder differential. I would think it is a lot less expensive than the 3030 or 4000. It is easily handheld (important to me). The only problem is I haven't seen any for sale yet in the US. The Multiplex USA site has no mention of it. Has anyone seen or heard of it being available anywhere? I don't speak German, so I haven't checked any of the German sites. Even a European source would be helpful. Thanks.

George

[matthew.orme]

Get a used Vision 7SP that has been upgraded. The only radio that I know of (except a MC-20) that will switch from normal differential to reverse differential when deploying spoilerons (in crow, or if there are no flaps)



Originally posted by Ric Duley
I know there have been some threads in the past on this issue but it's been some time since the last one. There have also been some new releases (Futaba 9C) that would be good to hear about. I'd like to hear some opinions of those now that they've owned their radios for a while.
It would also be good to hear about some of the limitations of some of the more "popular" radios, such as the Hitec Flash 5 and Eclipse, the Futaba 6XA, DA and the JR and Airtronics choices.

[MTT]

@Saltyone :
From what I have read on the german RC forums, the Royal evo will eventually replace the 3030, but the 4000 remains top of the line. And the 3010 has already been discontinued.
I am also surprised that MPX USA has no mention whatsover on their site about this radio.
From what I hear from Germany, first deliveries will be late summer for the 35 and 40 MHz versions, so probably it will get over here late this year.

Michael

[ScotY]

I asked Karlton at Multiplex USA recently...he didn't think we'd see the Royal Evo for about a year. And I asked one of the UK distributors if the modules between the Evo and the current lines of radios were the same...he said they would NOT be the same.

I was bummed as it seems like the perfect radio for me. I would have bought a Multiplex a long while back but I don't like to fly with a neckstrap/tray.

[Jeff Burg]

Matthew-
Multiplex has something very similar. When you assign your wing servos to Butterfly, you get what Multiplex calls"differential supression". As full crow is applied, any aileron differential is gradually reduced untill at full spoiler the differential is zero.
Jeff Burg
Centennial, Colorado

[SaltyOne]

Mike and Scot thanks for the feedback on the Multiplex Royal Evo. I agree with Scott, it's too bad that Multiplex won't be bringing the Royal to our shores for about a year. I tried a friend's 4000 and it's a great radio, but I just couldn't get comfortable with the heavy weight, neck strap, and tray. Until Multiplex comes out with a radio I can hold in my hand, I'll stick with my Stylus.

George

[matthew.orme]

Originally posted by Jeff Burg
Matthew-
Multiplex has something very similar. When you assign your wing servos to Butterfly, you get what Multiplex calls"differential supression". As full crow is applied, any aileron differential is gradually reduced untill at full spoiler the differential is zero.
Jeff Burg
Centennial, Colorado

I know, but it won't go to reverse differential. Better than nothing I suppose, but for planes like electric gliders, I "crow" the ailerons up about 60 degrees (servo travel limit) for spoilers. that means only the downward servo can move.

With other radios, you have to crow about half, so the upwards servo can still move if you wnat to turn.

[Superbike]

My Futaba 8UAF is programmed with reverse diff. when the spoilerons are activated. Adam Neat put up a pic on a post on how to do it, it was easy. My 2 cents are just that I do not like the pizza box tray designed radio's. Is it that they are desinged for the European tray style flying or that they do not want to mold an ergonomic case? The only thing I do wish my radio had is a slider for camber control. I heard (may be wrong) that the heli version of the new Futaba T9-CAP has a slider? My UAF is about 7 years old and I think next year it will be time for a new one. I have been looking and the Airtronics Stylus was out because of the shift selectability (is that a real word?) I would say that the Futaba 9, Airtronics stylus are the best choices for me. This is a very informative thread, I hope to learn more! ---Mike

[opualuan]

again, the stylus doesn't care if you use pcm, + shift, or - shift. it's a program menu selection. in fact, the default is PCM, you change it when you set up your plane program. a very nice radio imho. there is no 'best'. it's 'best for you' if the price, features, styling, support, and capabilities line up for you. hell, a hitec focus III fm might be perfect if you just fly poly HLG's! I'm building a plane now that will have flaperons/spoilerons, elevator, and differential thrust (twin), I really want to get my money's worth out of my stylus (flying my zagi THL feels like such a waste of such a capable radio!)