F3A-I In the U.S.? Any one interested?

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Hey everyone. I was just wondering if anyone in the US has the same feelings as I and would love to see F3A-I style Competitions to be held right here in the US. Over in Europe it is very popular and I think that it could be here as well! I think that it would be great for the whole aerobatic community! I belive that it would promote the growth of the hobby and we would see more younger pilots get involved in competition, as they are our future of our hobby we love. They would be able to get involved much easier because the planes and equipment for these type models are readily available, and rather inexpencive. For a person to be competitive in the upper ranks of pattern or IMAC the models we fly fully equipped can have easily $5000-$10000 in them way out of the reach of a 10-16yr. old's allowance! These models that would be fully competitive you can get into with a brushless/ lipo setup for as little as about $250. Which that right there opens up the playing field to alot of people! Also by making F3A-I popular in the us it opens up the possibility to have an F3A-I World Championships in the near future by involving more countries in this type of flying! I would like to hear anyone's opinion on this topic!

Jeff Pfeifer

[fwilly]

YES!!!!!!!:D

We could use your vote for a new forum :)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354426

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355278

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Just voted! If some one holds a 2-day contest some where in the US I will do everything I can to attend the first US F3A-I Competition in the United States! I am sure I can talk some of my buddies into coming as well... mainly E-TOC pilots you know who we are! lol

[edge40flyer]

Hmmm I think it is time for jeff to get outside and start flying his big plane more. stupid MO. weather.
Really though I think that F3A-I would be great. I would love to get in to IMAC Pattern contestes but am struggling with the money for the plane and gear. F3A-I would be an awsome way to get into some style of contest flying.

[Hubb]

tell me the time and the place and I'm in. I compete in IMAC and dable in pattern a bit. I am all for this type of competition. are there plane size and shape rules somewhere? gymnasium size limits?

Hubb

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Brandon,
I am getting outside tomorrow with the big stuff! Just charged everything up got my 5 gallon gas can full with 93 octane and 100:1 Amsoil mix. Bolted the 3 blade back on, I'm ready to rock and roll! woo hoo! No but I would love to see F3A-I Become popular I would fly it even in the summer time! It would be nice about August when it is 102 degrees out in the shade and 80% humid to fly a F3A-I contest indoors with the A/C on!

[JoshFlies3d]

I would deffinately like to compete in F3A-I , Count me in!

Josh

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Here is a link to the rules and schedules that I found.
http://members.shaw.ca/patternwestnews/rules/indoorfai/ANNEX%2012,%20F3AI.pdf

http://members.shaw.ca/patternwestnews/rules/indoorfai/ANNEX%2012,%20F3AI-1%20Annex%202.pdf

There is also a "B" Schedule that they fly in Europe that is less complex more like a "sportsman" class

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Oh also for those of us in the U.S. the 500 gram weight limit is 17.7 ounces or 1.475 bud lights!

[fwilly]

Some vids of those schedules that Jurgen Heilig posted:

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16614&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15894&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15670&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=15628&sort=1&cat=500&page=2

[edge40flyer]

Jeff I hope you did something to that 3 blade it sounded terriable. You need to stop going on about your big plane makes me want one that much more. Trying to unload the raptor got to have big plane need big plane ughhh.
Although I would be no competetion tell me when and where and who is building my plane and I am there.
Brandon

[Jeff Pfeifer]

I fixed the 3 blade the hub was off and sending the blades out of track. All good now!

[edge40flyer]

Sounds good guess I better get some sim time before I fly that beast tomarrow huh. ohh wait I don't have my sim wonder what happened to that :D .
Brandon

[aglenn]

Count me in

[Shortman]

I'm in

[dcronkhite]

I'm definitely interested.

[Andrew Jesky]

I am working on something right now as we speak to bring a F3AI contest to Michigan. It would be at a big golf dome with 2 flight lines. We are trying to figure out should be have a 2 day contest or a single day. Im sure that many want to fly for 2 days if they travel far but some may only want one day. Let me know what you guys think.

Andrew Jesky

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Animal,
Where abouts in Michigan? It would be more feasible for me to come if it was a 2-day affair!

[tobytorkn]

guys, i'm trying to work a deal with terry nitsch for next years jr indoor fly-in in columbus ohio. also my friend dewey davenport and i are trying to get a gym near dayton ohio for a couple of different weekends so we can have a couple more competitions. toby....

[dick hanson]

Al Glenn
please send me your E Mail address-I lost it

[adamg]

You guys should all put your locations in your profile, so when you post that you are interested others know if you are within 1000miles of them.

[Hubb]

glad to see you jumped in Toby. I think that what Toby has going for the JR indoor is great. plus there is good interest in the North Central part of the country for any number of indoor contests. someone has to just go for it and see what happens.

also, I think a one day event would be best for this type of contest. unless it were a "championship" kind of deal.

Andrew, I would definitely come up to Michigan if you get something going.

Hubb

[Bsouthwell]

I have a huge indoor site 20 minutes from were I live. I need to get in touch with the folks who manage it. It is 3-4 times larger than the Memphis EAC site. Hmmmmmm.....

I would be interested in the F3A-I especially if there were say intermidiate-advanced classes. If it were a 2 day event run like a pattern contest....Ya Baby!!!!


Bill

[TeamSME]

Definately in on something like this.
Sean Ellis

[patternguy]

I'm in.
And also my bud Scott Covey.
We'd like to get a west coast indoor pattern meet started. I was wondering how much interest there would be out here.
Chris

[CharM]

I'm also in.


I tried IMAC a little but the cost completely took the fun out of it. Having built a couple of foamies for F3AI has been total fun and satisfied my flying.

Char :D

[Jeff Pfeifer]

I have been talking to the CD for the OKC 3D Challenge and it is more than likely that we will be flying 2 rounds of F3AI (F3P) at this event to possibly stir some intrest up in this country for this type of competition.

[Blackhawk3D]

I'm in, although I'm not quite there yet. Would someone in the Northern CA area like to give me a hand with some flying lessons or help? I am willing to help get access to a good sized gymnasium (Our schools, I'm in good stead with all the staff) in Lodi CA, 30 miles south of Sacramento. I could set it up where people from my school could come watch, it would be great publicity for the hobby in this area.

[patternguy]

I could help ya out. I'm in patterson, south of Tracy. Although I fly mode 3

[ChrisBowker]

i grew up flying IMAC but no longer own a car to cary a 40% plane in...i would do every thing in my power to make it to any f3a style events in the usa.


...im thinking of selling my 80" extra 330 with a da-50 in it to invest in a lot of indoor stuff since its so hard to get it out to the flying feild now...

[dcronkhite]

I'd be interested for sure..

[Drewmotion]

I'm in for sure!

There has to be a lot of folks in the Southern Cal area that would be interested in this. I think there are some guys that fly in Long Beach, perhaps they have a site suitable for an event?

Drew

[Trisquire]

I'm in favor. We need to establish a standardized format with the Europeans. Indoor is bringing young blood into the hobby like never before.

I also feel we need real competitions that are not just invitationals like the ETOC. There are many amazing foamy pilots who don't have the money or desire to pursue F3A or IMAC.

Let's open up the field to anyone who wants to compete. Give all these new kids a chance to shine.

Regards,
Tom

[KNUFFAN]

I couldnt agree more. I love to compete but the avenues for competition are FAI and IMAC around here in Utah. I fly both of these but the cost and aggravation of setup time and drive time kind of put a damper on those. The indoor comp would be just as intense and I have to say some of the best pilots I've ever seen were guys who fly foamies alot and look like they have some kind of a mind link directly to their planes. I would really like to see them have an avenue to get together, share ideas and compete.

[shannah]

I'm in.
And also my bud Scott Covey.
We'd like to get a west coast indoor pattern meet started. I was wondering how much interest there would be out here.
Chris


I'd be interested. My only problem is that I don't have an indoor site. I try to find those nice calm mornings and fly outside.

[Trisquire]

I'd be interested. My only problem is that I don't have an indoor site.
Oh yeah....................there's that whole venue thing. A competitor who has regular access to an indoor site would have a distinct advantage.

[Blackhawk3D]

Anyone up for a contest here in Northern Cal? I could set it all up, contact sponsors for prizes, and generally get things going. We should start trying to get a timeline for the first contest so that we have a date to get things together by, that would make things go a little smoother.

[patternguy]

I think I could round up several people. Seeing as we are the norcal pattern guys, you would think we would want to attend. I'll put out an email to the guys.
Thanks hawk

[Blackhawk3D]

What would be a good date? And would you like to have some of the pros come if possible? Hicks (I really want to talk with him anyway!) would be great to have, who else? I know Josh Glavin lives in Sactown. I can make up some advertisements and give them out around here, also if someone could give me a link to routine diagrams it would be great. We could also have an Artistic Aerobatics Freestyle round added in for those creative types ;).

[Armin Mangelmann]

Hi guys,

it is nice to see, that the f3a-i virus mangaged to travel the oceans...
There is an official class which can be flown in competitions, i try to get jürgen heilig to this thread, he is the "official guy" here in germany.
There are two classes (A+B) B is to introduce new guys to the competition flying , A is pretty tough, turnaround schedule with plenty of hard figures to fly, on rcmania, a cz site, are plenty of videos of the previous german and other championships..and jürgen has some videos posted here, too...

On thing is for sure: Anybody who has acces to a gym has a little advantage, the only way to go is : trainning!
The problem i see in the us is: the gyms are way to big and high in my opinion, here in germany the average high of the ceilings is about 6-7 meters...therefor a special, very lite model is necessary for competing...you will see alo new material coming up for the next competition here in germany (which are open to everybody, so come on over!!!!)

kind regards
armin

[shannah]

Thanks for the reply Armin,

Keep the information and tips coming this way. I am sure indoor competition will eventually catch on here in a big way. The size of our gym's doesn't seem to be a problem, rather it might help attract even more people. It is a disadvantage, however, if we ever travelled across the pond to fly. It is hard to fly in a smaller space.

It would help us if we had an aresti drawing for the A and B sequences. Do you know if anything like that exists?

[ChrisBowker]

Thanks for the reply Armin,

Keep the information and tips coming this way. I am sure indoor competition will eventually catch on here in a big way. The size of our gym's doesn't seem to be a problem, rather it might help attract even more people. It is a disadvantage, however, if we ever travelled across the pond to fly. It is hard to fly in a smaller space.

It would help us if we had an aresti drawing for the A and B sequences. Do you know if anything like that exists?

Ive read the patterns and figured most of it out by watching video's but is there any thing like what you find in IMAC sequence's as far as a drawing?

Chris

[Devin McGRath]

I would be very interested in competing in indoor F3a-i over here in the states although I do agree that having too big of a space takes some of the skill not only flying but light building out of the whole thing. I think lightweight is key in flying these pattern sequences indoors but much less critical in a large space.

Devin McGrath

[patternguy]

I would agree to a certain extent Devin. My thoughts on this are that it doesn't matter if I have a whole football stadium to fly in, I would still need to build as light as possible and would still try to fly in the same size "box" regardless to be competitive. Matter of fact, like in pattern or imac we could make a box to fly in and add a height restriction. Problem solved? I don't really know if it matters though as the best pilot with the best plane that day would win anyhow.
Hey D, what foamy or foamies are you flying right now for F3A-I? How is it?
I ask out of curiousity as I think I remember when you were flying shocky's way back when on the other forum.

[Devin McGRath]

I agree setting up a "box" to fly in would be a good idea.... But the small space also makes the competition harder from the stand point of you can do anything you want in a small area when you have room to get out but when faced with a small space with walls around it things get interesting it feels more confined even if you are doing it in the same amount of space it is more challenging. Like the other day I clipped a pole with the wing of my F3A shockflyer doing a one roll rolling circle on the outside of the gym. If I had a huge place to fly that wouldn’t happen lol

I fly a highly modified F3A shockflyer.

Devin McGrath

[Jurgen Heilig]

...
It would help us if we had an aresti drawing for the A and B sequences. Do you know if anything like that exists?

Probably even better than Aresti - have a look at the F3P pages here:

http://www.modellflug-im-daec.de/leistungssport/fernlenflug/indoorflug/indoor_index.htm

:) Jürgen

[Jurgen Heilig]

I'm in favor. We need to establish a standardized format with the Europeans. Indoor is bringing young blood into the hobby like never before.
...
Let's open up the field to anyone who wants to compete. Give all these new kids a chance to shine.

Regards,
Tom

Hi Tom,

The F3P-A program is already an FAI standard. One of the problems I can see in the US is the size of the country. Although the cost for a competitive model is rather low, travel costs to compete in various events can become pretty expensive.

:) Jürgen

[patternguy]

Hi Tom,

The F3P-A program is already an FAI standard. One of the problems I can see in the US is the size of the country. Although the cost for a competitive model is rather low, travel costs to compete in various events can become pretty expensive.

:) Jürgen
Yeah, size of the country is quite the factor to fly some cheap little foam planes. I can understand that. But I guess its like pattern or Imac or any of the other competitions, if you want to do it badly enough you will travel.
Actually, we could run the Indoor stuff the same way that our 2m pattern stuff is run. We could break everything up into districts. I believe we have 8 of them. We could even break it down further than that and do 12 to 15 districts to keep contests closer to home.
Chris

[Trisquire]

Yeah, size of the country is quite the factor to fly some cheap little foam planes. I can understand that. But I guess its like pattern or Imac or any of the other competitions, if you want to do it badly enough you will travel.
Actually, we could run the Indoor stuff the same way that our 2m pattern stuff is run. We could break everything up into districts. I believe we have 8 of them. We could even break it down further than that and do 12 to 15 districts to keep contests closer to home.
Chris
That's how figure skating is. You've got regionals, sectionals and nationals. The US is divided up into about 30 regions. The skaters that place among the top three in regionals go on to sectionals. There are 3 sections in the country I believe. Top three skaters in sectionals go on to the Nationals. Top three there go the World Championships, and every four years also to the Olympics. It usually doesn't work out that clean but, you get the point.

Yes, the travel expenses may amount to more than the planes.

Regards,
Tom

[Trisquire]

I agree setting up a "box" to fly in would be a good idea....Devin McGrath

When the "big guns" were in town for the JR festival, they performed their ETOC routines. They kept the performances the size of a typical US gym which is a fraction of the available space in a golf dome.

This made sense. Why practice something you won't be able to perform at the actual competition venue?

[MustangAce17]

i would be interested in this since i mainly fly 3d and sometimes fly in my church gym but i couldnt go unless it was in Florida so im probably out but wish i could do it

[Devin McGRath]

Thats a great idea. Divide the country into secsions and compete on a close to home level first befroe moveing on.


Devin McGrath

[MustangAce17]

that would work and give every one a chance as theres not 3d contests for kids my age(17) at least here in Central Florida

[Trisquire]

Hi guys,
it is nice to see, that the f3a-i virus mangaged to travel the oceans...


Armin,

I found your name in Jürgen's gallery. Does this mean you rank 13th in the world?

Regards,
Tom

[Armin Mangelmann]

Hi triquire.

no no...this was my result from the last open german championships..
i was 5th in aero musical in april 2005 and i won the carvin indoor championship in france at the end of the year in aero musical class.
i have much more fun flying to/with music, but i need to qualify with f3p-a...

Hope to improve this year!?!?!

kind regards
armin

[Trisquire]

Armin,

Congratulations. To be honest, I find aero musicals more interesting than F3AI. Perhaps the two should be combined into one event. F3AI would make it easier on the judges; everyone executing the same maneuver. The aero musical would be the creative, and more subjective aspect of the competition. It would also be the part with the greatest audience appeal. Once again, I'm making parallels with the skating world.

Where can we get more information on you and your planes? On the rcmania site you mentioned earlier? Would you care to post some pictures or links?

Regards,
Tom

[ChrisBowker]

i think combining a pattern comp and a freestyle comp would be the best thing to do. so people can fly one or both.

Chris

[Trisquire]

i think combining a pattern comp and a freestyle comp would be the best thing to do. so people can fly one or both.

Chris
We can use the same format that's already being used by the Europeans; regardless of whether it's pattern or freestyle. This would make a world championship more feasible.

Armin, I found a video of one of your aeromusicals on rcmania.cz. You're very good.

Mit freundlichem Gruß Tom

[fredok]

F3P info

On donuts-models web, you can find info, video and pictures of this year events.
as you will see, the aïto is the model for 2005-2006 competitions.....
lot of pictures from Carvin 2005 and Chartre 2005 events.

http://www.donuts-models.com/pages/f3ppag.html

regards

Fred

[Armin Mangelmann]

well.. thanks, i do try to improve..

at the moment a do fly a yak 54, it is the 10th evolution at the moment, i have been working on this for aeromusical purposes for almost 18 months now..
for the indoor f3a--i pattern, we worked out a new concept (martin Müller (original designer of the shockies) and our "indoor team".

one video of my flight in france is posted on jürgen heiligs data here on ezone...it was not the bets one, as i landed on the nose on purpose in the last round (VPP) but no one caught it on tape..?!?!

kr
armin

[ChrisBowker]

what happend to making a fourm for indoor patern/aerobatic competition?


Chris

[fwilly]

Vote didn't quite make it. It was doing pretty well in the begining, but fell just a little short. It needed 75% and atleast 40 votes. It got 73.29% and 161 votes.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355278

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354426

[ChrisBowker]

that sucks :(

thanks for the reply.

Chris

[kidpilot]

I think what jeff is trying to put toghether is great. I tried to get into pattern a few years ago, but couldnt afford it. At my age (17) its hard to fund something like that. The indoor pattern would be great, its actually something i can afford!!!

[ChrisBowker]

i think enough time has passed since this was all started...what would it take to get a re-vote for this to make a new fourm? there seems to be more interest in it now then there was before. just my 2 cents. ::steps off his soap box::


Chris

[fwilly]

i think enough time has passed since this was all started...what would it take to get a re-vote for this to make a new fourm? there seems to be more interest in it now then there was before. just my 2 cents. ::steps off his soap box::


Chris

Had the same idea after I posted the links :D http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466438#post4900490

Anybody who's interested, please post in that thread. We need 20 posts supporting it from different people to get a poll started.

[Jason Noll]

Count me in! This could be a very good thing for everybody. The thing I am seeing the most and that I fear the most are young kids learning to do 3D with foamies and then trying to get in over there head with a big airplane and potentially hurting someone. The other side of this is that it will make people better flyer in the long run. Anybody can go bang the sticks around, but it takes discipline and practice to do precision flying. The way I see it is this is a win win situation for eveybody.

Jason Noll

[Devin McGRath]

I hope we can get a forum passed we really need one to better organize the site. Jason I agree with you 100% it takes discipline and practice to do precision flying. I am looking forward to meeting you at the E-fest. Unfortunately I did not make it to the JR Indoor Festival because I was competing up at the Canadian indoor Shoot Out in Toronto, although I did see a video of your demo flight from the event and really enjoyed it.


Devin McGrath

[Trisquire]

...

[TRuss]

Regions are the only way you could do this. It makes perfect sense, and there are many other sports that do this. It is definitely proven. I am all for it! I have definitely been getting more into precision stuff lately. I would also throw in a vote for some freestyle, or artistic aerobatics as well. But the two should be kept seperate. It would make for a scheduling nightmare, with no time for delays. It would be a very difficult weekend for the hosts of the comp.

[Trisquire]

It's sort of combined in ice dance. You've got 3 separate events:

Compulsory Dances - comparable to pattern/precision. Each couple does the same series of dances (maneuvers) with the same steps. Easy for the judges to make direct comparisons. A bit boring to watch. Rarely gets TV coverage.
Original Dance and/or Short Program - short, fairly structured routine to music (aeromusical). You still need to fulfill a series of required elements: torque roll, rolling harrier, etc. If you miss an element, the penalty is pretty severe.
Free Dance and/or Long Program - longer musical routine. More originality allowed. Here is where your creativity comes out. This is the part you see on TV. It has the most entertainment value.

The final score is a combination of all three events. Ironically, once the standings have been determined after the compulsory dances (F3AI), they rarely change. And yes, they narrow down the field with regional competitions.

Regards,
Tom

[Blackhawk3D]

So when do we want to set this thing up? I felt there was some good interest for the Northern California Area. Anyone who is willing to help out give me a PM, I've got getting the location, I need some help with advertising, invites etc.

[Devin McGRath]

Tom I like that format it seems like the best way to go.


Devin McGrath

[Trisquire]

Of course if we use the European format, which we probably should for consistency, precision and freestyle would essentially be split up into separate competitions.

In skating the two skills compliment each other. Compulsories are like building the foundation.

Regards,
Tom

Hi Tom,

F3AI has been changed into F3P. F3P includes F3P-A, -B, -C and -D plus F3P-AM (AeroMusicals)

:) Jürgen

[fwilly]

I thought Aeromusicals were a part of F3P. Isn't it called F3P-AM?

[Jeff Pfeifer]

Nope, they are two separate classes, but flown at the same events.

[patternguy]

I would assume that once you get into the musicals and freestyles you would be leaving F3AI and having more of a ETOC. F3A contests involve only sequences of manuevers, not freestyles and musicals. I'm sure you already know that. I would like, personally, to keep F3A contests to F3A. Maybe a freestyle at the end of the day would be a good contest also though. I am very interested in the F3A stuff they are flying in Germany. The contest aspect of flying a pattern contest indoors is exciting to me.

[Armin Mangelmann]

Hi everybody...as there is an official class already been stated , why not fly it...here in europe, the major contest already use the official rules and programs...if i am informed right by jürgen, the class is now official and championships can be performed in all countries...

kind regards
armin....

[Trisquire]

I would assume that once you get into the musicals and freestyles you would be leaving F3AI and having more of a ETOC. F3A contests involve only sequences of manuevers, not freestyles and musicals. I'm sure you already know that. I would like, personally, to keep F3A contests to F3A. Maybe a freestyle at the end of the day would be a good contest also though. I am very interested in the F3A stuff they are flying in Germany. The contest aspect of flying a pattern contest indoors is exciting to me.
As Jeff mentioned, they would be separate classes flown at the same event. You can participate in the class you choose. If you excel in F3P-A you may decide to give F3P-AM a shot as well. The rules state: "It is recommended that competitors in F3P-AM have to go through a prequalification in F3P-A first."

http://www.donuts-models.com/rglt_f3p_inter/f3ai_partie_1.pdf

Regards,
Tom

[Jurgen Heilig]

I think having a dedicated F3P forum would help keeping the information closer together:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466438

:) Jürgen

[fwilly]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=469089

Please Vote :)

[ChrisBowker]

if you havent voted yet, please do :)

[3d_Crazy]

Alright! I hope it makes it this time. We really need this forum. :)

[Blackhawk3D]

I wish the people who voted no would explain thier reasoning, otherwise it kind of seems like they're downers lol. They probably have perfectly good reasons, but still.

[ChrisBowker]

the people that voted no ive never even seen post in the 3d fourms... :confused: granted i could be wrong.

[Sammy B]

Hey, I jst saw this thread and I think US F3A would be awsome. My flying styles are really similar. I am starting to enjoy flying really precisely. I hope this works!
thanks Sammy

[Tim H.]

I voted yes, and my comments in the thread

"I agree that we need a dedicated forum for Indoor pattern or F3P. It would help tremendously to inspire/introduce this aspect of the hobby to many that have not seen it yet.

Indoor flying is starting to get bigger in the States and ANYTHING we can do to help promote growth is a great thing. More options... More growth

My 2 cents..."

Tim H.

[fwilly]

Thanks for voting guys!!

Martin Hunter was one of the two no votes, and he used to post in 3D. IIRC he a was a moderator in this forum.

[ChrisBowker]

how much longer does the poll have to stay open?

[fwilly]

6 days left

[ChrisBowker]

isnt to day the 30th? :)

[fwilly]

yup :D

The pole will be closed in a couple hours

[Trisquire]

Gentlemen,

Where do we go from here? Do we have a new forum?

Regards,
Tom

[fwilly]

We definetly met the requirments with 93.83% and double the required number of total votes, so I think so:D

[3d_Crazy]

That is great news!!!

[pkruse]

Whats the status of the new forum (maybe i'm missing something)?

Thanks,
Paul

[3d_Crazy]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=373

The new "Indoor Pattern/F3P" forum is up! :D

[pkruse]

Thanks 3D

[dmucop1]

Here from kansas city mo I am in. I say no freestyle and just pattern 1 and a half days would be a blast!

[dcronkhite]

Jeff and others..

One thing you should do if you want to get F3P flying going here is contact Chris Lakin.. he's our US rep to CIAM, the governing body for this sort of thing. If we're going to do it.. let's do it right with all of the existing rules, maneuver schedules, and so forth.