gentle lady

[patv]

Hi All,

Just got my Gentle Lady ARF today. I'm reading the instructions for the second time and wondered if anyone had any words of wisdom, tips or suggestions from experience before I finish the assembly and install the gear.

Can the wing be kept as a 2 pc. for ease of travel?
Should I make a hardwood wing joiner for added strength? (I'm using a standard histart..Hobby lobby red...no winching).

I opened the box and inspected the parts and all looks good so far...

thanks
Pat

[Sparky Paul]

If you don't need 2-piece wings, use a hardwood/plywood joiner and epoxy the halves together.

[Gvflyer]

If you don't need 2-piece wings, use a hardwood/plywood joiner and epoxy the halves together.

I SECOND THAT with Fiberglass!! :D

I put ours (my son's) together per instructions with Epoxy. Thought I did a good job of it. I was working with my HLG while a local pro was working with my son and the GL. I reached down to pick my plane up and heard a **CRACK** and I looked up in time to see the fuse go in as a lawn dart and two wings flutter down. Did it on a winch? Nope that was a Hi-Start! I've never broke a wing on a high start. We went home ran two rods through the wings and covered the top/bottom with doubled fiberglassed (.75 oz). Then width were the wings joined well at about 5 to 8 inches wide. I'd launch it on winch now.

As for the extra weight? I did 30 minutes last Saturday with it and hit a Paragon with one of my wings halfway through the time and flew on. I had to fly updsde down twice to keep the altitude in check.

Don

[DFW_HLG_TG]

I am going to have to buy one of those just to see how it compares to the kit version. I have been flying aileron birds since 86' but I still like to fly the simple birds. I built a GL in 93' and still fly it now and then. I built it as an RES contest bird and put spoilers in it. I also built in removeable tip panels because I thought the center joint just did not have enough beef. I used the larger servos in it. A third servo operates two pull cables for the spoilers. I have used a winch on ti several times, you just have to let it kite up and take it slow. 5 to 8 mph is the best wind conditions and do not fly it with winds over 10. My longest flight was 3 hours. enjoy....

[Hostage-46]

Dwain I have to tell you Don's little GL is a real hoot. He did a tidy job joining the wings with glass and it's solid.

Once you get the CG right, it's a dream. Saturday we were lying on our backs specked out passing the tranny back and forth with no worries.

Wonder what the helo guys thought we were passing around :)

[DFW_HLG_TG]

Sounds like fun. They are real laid back. In a gentle thermal, I have set the trims to circle so I could make a trip to the cooler. Later in the summer when the winds are light, we should have a one design contest with them. Or,,,,,,,,, what I really want to do is take off in Allen and head for OK.

[Hostage-46]

Hehe that sounds like fun, count me in.... this wind has to die down, doesn't it ?

[DFW_HLG_TG]

Man... As soon as it does my dad, Gary and I are heading to the field. I need 4 hours on the Icon and 1 on the Artamis, dam, forgot how to spell it.

[Sparky Paul]

The ARF GL I fondled has a better wing structure than the kit..sheeted leading edge all the way out.
With a good real plywood joiner, epoxied in place, it should be bullet proof. (or at least high energy hi-start proof :) )

[aeajr]

i don't have a GL. I have a Spirit. I did not epoxy my wings. I join them with clear packing tape at the field. Makes for much more convenient storage and transportation.

Holds up fine on the winch and a 4 meter hi-start.

[Mirage1]

I recently bought the Gentle lady ARF and epoxied the two halves together with the supplied joiner. I use the Dynaflight heavy duty Histart stretched 120 feet (90 paces) . The plane goes straight up ( I use a little down stick to keep it from popping off) and gets a good launch every time. With the wind up to about 10mph you can kite it up pretty high. Over 10mph I have a hard time penetrating up wind. I have had several flights where it has been hard to get it down. One time I was spinning it with the plane still going up in a strong thermal. Today I went and bought a roll of dark monokote for the bottom of the wing because the white bottom is just not good for visibility.I followed all the directions and have had no problems.

[aeajr]

With the wind up to about 10mph you can kite it up pretty high. Over 10mph I have a hard time penetrating up wind.

Try 4-8 oz of ballast right over the CG. You will be amazed what a difference it makes in the wind.

[patv]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I'm going to head out to the woodshop and shape up a plywood joiner for added strength.

I really would like to have a 2 peice wing for ease of transporting...if its not too risky. I'm on the road in my car most of the day and often stop during the day around lunch to fly. breaking down the wing would provide more chances to get some flying in. :)

I'm thinking of using epoxy to install the joiner into one wing and sliding the other on and using tape for a temporary connection as aeajr suggests.

Pat

[DFW_HLG_TG]

[QUOTE=patv]

I really would like to have a 2 peice wing for ease of transporting...if its not too risky. I'm on the road in my car most of the day and often stop during the day around lunch to fly. breaking down the wing would provide more chances to get some flying in. :)


I built one from a kit. At the poly break, on each side, I made an extra rib. I then made the wing into three pieces. I use brass tubes and 3/32 steel rods to join the wing together. This makes it easy to transport. I also built spoilers into the plane.

If there is some interest, I could post pics and do a GL mod thread. This plane can now do TD contest and I can dump altitude withot the worry of ripping the wings or tail off.

[aeajr]

Thanks to everyone for your input. I'm going to head out to the woodshop and shape up a plywood joiner for added strength.

I really would like to have a 2 peice wing for ease of transporting...if its not too risky. I'm on the road in my car most of the day and often stop during the day around lunch to fly. breaking down the wing would provide more chances to get some flying in. :)

I'm thinking of using epoxy to install the joiner into one wing and sliding the other on and using tape for a temporary connection as aeajr suggests.

Pat

I would encourage you to try the tape method to join the wing. If you are using a 2M hi-start to launch it, you should have no problem. Again, my Spirit does fine and I use a 4M hi-start and a winch to launch it. Have never had the wing separate on a launch or in the air. And I have broken the wing on a failed winch launch and the tape joint held.

Try it. If you don't like it you can always epoxy and glass it later.

BTW, my joiner is not glued it. I slip it into each wing half before each flight, slide 'em together and tape it all the way around with 2" clear packing tape.

[sierra-gold]

An additional advantage to gluing the joiner into one wing half... you can't forget it or loose it.

Don't ask me how I know. ;)

SG

[John Gallagher]

I recently bought the Gentle lady ARF and epoxied the two halves together with the supplied joiner. I use the Dynaflight heavy duty Histart stretched 120 feet (90 paces) . The plane goes straight up ( I use a little down stick to keep it from popping off) and gets a good launch every time. With the wind up to about 10mph you can kite it up pretty high. Over 10mph I have a hard time penetrating up wind. I have had several flights where it has been hard to get it down. One time I was spinning it with the plane still going up in a strong thermal. Today I went and bought a roll of dark monokote for the bottom of the wing because the white bottom is just not good for visibility.I followed all the directions and have had no problems.

Mirage,
What does the supplied joiner look like?

[Mirage1]

It was a piece of 5 ply plywood which fit well.

[Gvflyer]

I would encourage you to try the tape method to join the wing. If you are using a 2M hi-start to launch it, you should have no problem. Again, my Spirit does fine and I use a 4M hi-start and a winch to launch it. Have never had the wing separate on a launch or in the air. And I have broken the wing on a failed winch launch and the tape joint held.

Try it. If you don't like it you can always epoxy and glass it later.

BTW, my joiner is not glued it. I slip it into each wing half before each flight, slide 'em together and tape it all the way around with 2" clear packing tape.

That is a good idea! I never thought of using packing tape to add strength. I guess this is why I wanted an RTF. BTW if anybody is looking for the kit I also got one NIB. The only thing disturbed is the plans of taking them out to see what parts need to be fixed.

If we fly on Sunday on the winch I'll grab some packing tape and ballast for the wind. ;)
Don

[kawika]

Patv-
One thing you could do is move the wing back about an inch.I cut away some of the balsa on the top of the fuse,in back of the wing saddle,then i drilled and inserted 2 small wood dowels through the fuse, to hold the rubberbands. I did glue some plywood on the inside of the fuse before drilling the holes.You end up using 4 rubber bands,instead of the stock 2 over the top of the wing.
Also ,I used Hs 55s and moved them to the front of the plane to keep the weight forward.Balance your plane before glueing on the nose cone that way you can glue your ballast lead in front of the plywood bulkhead.
I took out the stock push rods and installed carbon rods w/teflon housings.
They work great,no slop.I cut a small round hole in the bottem of the fuse for access, and anchored the teflon tubes. You should do this even if you don't change the push rods as the stock ones aren't anchored at the halfway point and tend to flap around in there.
If you do these simple mods you will have a GL that will stay up in the lightest lift.
LOL David

[Mirage1]

After you moved your wing back one inch , how far back from the leading edge did you balance it.?

[patv]

How does moving the wing back change the performance of the plane. Did you fly it in both configurations and see a big improvement?

Pat

[sierra-gold]

My assumption is that moving the wing back was done to lengthen the nose moment and thus shorten the tail moment. This will make it easier to balance to the CG with today's smaller, lighter radio components. The GL was designed to fly with the radio equipment I learned on in the 80s... real heavy. :)

The CG will remain at the same point on the wing as before the move.

I would think that a move of 1" would probably do nothing to the performance of the GL. Depending on the actual plane involved, it would be possible that the 1" aft movement of the wing could negatively impact tail feather effectiveness.

However, it possibly prevents having to add lead to the nose to balance correctly... which I suppose is a performance change due to a lighter wing loading. :rolleyes:

SG

[DFW_HLG_TG]

The plane is designed with the wing in the stock position. It will actually perform better even if you have to add nose weight. Weight is not a problem on the GL. My standard size servos are under the wing. A third servo, for spoilers, is up front along with the rec and 4aa batt pack. No nose weight is needed.

[sierra-gold]

Yes, basically you are flying with the "last generation" (standard sized) radio gear which the nose length of the GL was designed for. Those folks who have recently started RC may be using micro servos, berg 4 receivers, and NiMh battery packs. That can be 3-5 oz. lighter than standard gear.

No right or wrong to this... just how to balance the glider with miminal "baggage". Obviously a larger battery pack is more practical than the dead weight of using lead as mentioned in my first post.

SG

[DFW_HLG_TG]

The length of the nose has nothing to do with the generation of servo used. I believe it was designed for the servos to be placed under the wing. Still when the plane was designed the top micro servo was the Futaba S33 followed by the S133. These are bigger than say a HS155 yet half of a standard size servo. When building the plane it became obvious that it was really light. All of those Futaba 148s gathering dust had a purpose so that is what I used. It still needed ballast with winds above 8mph. My purpose of building the plane was to help others to fly and have a little fun.

My best advice for the new flyer with a GL would be to keep it simple. You really don't need to go with the exspensive hi-tech gear. I would recomend a good battery for when you hook a thermal with this plane, your going to be looking up for a while. Mine first flew in 93' at a contest. I did not fly it. I loaned it to a friend who did a radio off launch with thiers and needed a loner. It's a great little plane with alot of hours on it.

I just ordered another one and if there is any interest, I will do a build thread. This plane will include removable tip panels and spoilers, like my first one. Standard servos will also be used on the new one along with an older dual-conversion fm rec. For a new flyer on a budget, this is the way to go. People are giving this equipment away and upgrading to the new stuff.

[kawika]

HI guys-
After moving the wing back, I still balanced the plane at the recommended measurement.
What this does is allow the additional part of the fuse to be weight in front of the cg.
Less ballast needed to balance= lighter overall weight.
With the shorter tail moment the plane seemed to turn a little tighter radius.
Both ways work well , the gentle lady flys beautiful stock, as is.
I fly mine on a slermal slope , not a winch, so it is advantageous to be extra light,when the lift gets slim.On the other hand It doesn't penetrate as well without lead ,when the wind picks up.(everything is a trade off)
However you build it,it will be a blast.The Gentle Lady is a great plane that will continue to stand the test of time:-)

[kawika]

I forgot to mention, I had 2 gentle ladies one flown stock, and one with the wing modification.I liked the one with the wing moved back better.

[John Gallagher]

That is a good idea! I never thought of using packing tape to add strength. I guess this is why I wanted an RTF. BTW if anybody is looking for the kit I also got one NIB. The only thing disturbed is the plans of taking them out to see what parts need to be fixed.

If we fly on Sunday on the winch I'll grab some packing tape and ballast for the wind. ;)
Don

The Spirit and GL ARF are two different designs. The spirit was designed for a two piece wing. The GL ARF specs says that it is not designed with a two piece wing (see tower hobbies).
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXELP0&P=7#tech
Aeajr got away with just tape because he had a Spirit. Don't be surprised if the wing on the GL folds when you try to launch with just packing tape on the center section.
There's probably a joiner box in each side of the Spirit's wing. The GL wings may be designed without adequate top and bottom support for the joiner. With the joiner epoxied in, you don't need top and bottom support.
The tape is not used for strength!!! It is there to keep the wings together - to prevent them from sliding apart during flight.

John

[John Gallagher]

Just a note on a one piece winged GL. When it came time for me to sell mine (kit built) I discovered that it would cost a fortune to ship a one-piece wing. You have to sell it local or your stuck.
I once saw a GL on ebay that originally had a one piece wing. This was part of an estate sale. The person selling it obviously had no idea about RC gliders. In order to make the GL shippable, he took a hacksaw and cut the wing in two, a few inches from the center joint. Someone actually bought it.

[aeajr]

The Spirit and GL ARF are two different designs. The spirit was designed for a two piece wing. The GL ARF specs says that it is not designed with a two piece wing (see tower hobbies).
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXELP0&P=7#tech
Aeajr got away with just tape because he had a Spirit. Don't be surprised if the wing on the GL folds when you try to launch with just packing tape on the center section.
There's probably a joiner box in each side of the Spirit's wing. The GL wings may be designed without adequate top and bottom support for the joiner. With the joiner epoxied in, you don't need top and bottom support.
The tape is not used for strength!!! It is there to keep the wings together - to prevent them from sliding apart during flight.

John

John is quite right on all points. I am talking about a Spirit.

Other posters have indicated that they made a joiner for the GL to use it as a two piece wing. I do not recall anyone saying they needed to build/reinforce a joiner box.

I did read several posts here, and on other threads, that people had made the GL as a three piece wing, making the center one piece and making the left and right outer pieces removeable at the dihedral break. I don't know if any special reinforcement was needed.

John,

Thanks for pointing this out.

[aeajr]

I went to the Goldberg web site to try and download the bulid book, but they CHARGE for the instructions. Great Planes provides free downloads of the build instructions.

Anyway, you will have to depend on others for the suitablity of the two/three piece wing as I can not get to the instructions.

[John Gallagher]

I did read several posts here, and on other threads, that people had made the GL as a three piece wing, making the center one piece and making the left and right outer pieces removeable at the dihedral break. I don't know if any special reinforcement was needed.



You have to understand that before the GL was an ARF and before the GL was a kit, it was a set of plans. From the beginning the three-piece wing was an option on the plans.
There definitly is a 'special reinforcement' needed for the three piece option. Besides the extra thick rib on each side of the breaks, each joint consisted of a metal pin (1/8" solid) for the joiner with metal tubes epoxied to both sides of the break against the spar. These tubes sit in a well of epoxy for strength.
Remember that the load at the dihedral break is much smaller than the load at the center joint. A center joint joiner box would need to be much stronger.

When the ARF version of the GL came out there was some comments here about the one piece wing. I believe that in order to keep the price below the price of the spirit ARF, the one piece wing was used. It may seem dumb to us, but to the manufacturer, that $10 is worth it.
We should probably consider it lucky that the GL ARF web balsa has the grain in the right direction unlike the ARF version of the Bird Of Time.

[aeajr]

Another excellent post John. Thanks from all of us!

[patv]

I see the point John is making about the box where the wing joiner attaches to the wing. When I look into the opening for the joiner I can see there is wood support on the sides and bottom where the joiner is inserted. it appears the top is unsupport and there is a small gap between the top of the joiner (when installed)and what looks to be be underside of the sheeting for the top of the wing. Further, there is no telling the strength/thickness of the wood surroundiing the joiner.

I'm going to abide by the instructions for the assembly and joining of the wings. The inconvience of a one piece wing is far less than that of a repair!

Thanks to everyone for your time and input.

Pat

[uabass]

For what it is worth, I have a GL ARF. I keep it a two piece wing and joint them together when flying using clear 3M package tape as aeajr suggested. Works great. I do loops, rolls, inverted flights all the time with this setup with no problem at all.

Love that GL.

[John Gallagher]

For what it is worth, I have a GL ARF. I keep it a two piece wing and joint them together when flying using clear 3M package tape as aeajr suggested. Works great. I do loops, rolls, inverted flights all the time with this setup with no problem at all.

Love that GL.

If it works that's great. Are you flying off a slope or highstarting it?
If you do this make sure you wrap your receiver in foam. You're only gambling with a $90 glider.

[uabass]

High-start and Powered.

When powered, I just remove the nose piece and put the folding prop (Dymond 8x4) on.

When high-starting, I remove the folding prop and tape the nose piece back on. The direct drive BL motor (Align 400S 1500kv) stays in the fuse so I don't have to add any dead weight.

I use 8 cells 2/3AA 650s for either option. When powered, it slowly gets me about two launches to high-start height to hunt for thermals. With the battery in, my GL weights about 27-28oz.

I use two 18g micro servos instead of standard size to save weight. They are plenty for my GL.

I set my decalage to about +0.5 degree instead of 0 as shown on Goldberg website.

I set my CG a little further behind the 3.5"-3.75" aft range as shown on the spec so my GL is very responsive and will indicate very light lifts (but is less stable and requires more work and attention from me...sounds like my wife).

I have not slope my GL. I just think she is happiest when thermalling. And yes, the receiver is wrapped in foam.

[DFW_HLG_TG]

Here are some pics of the 3 piece wing. The end ribs are 1/8". There is no extra support for the tubes however if I did it again I would beef up the rear spar. Also are pics of the spoiler mod. Enjoy