sp400 sized plans/sites/what prop? etc etc

[MrBungle]

Hi guys.

Just wondering if you could all post some sites for speed400 sized boats. Sites with plans would be nice too.
I would like to construct with balsa or thin ply if possible, trying to stay clear of glass. Buying a hull doesn't interest me, I love to build stuff.
Im chasing something that LOOKS like a boat, nothing competetive, just something to hack with and have some fun, but something with a bit of zing. The outriggers(is that what they're called?) just look like a couple of planks of wood stuck together to me ... sorry.

I have looked at the sites listed below, but am looking for more:

http://www.microhydros.com/ -- great site
http://www.drcwebservices.com/lasaw/default3.htm -- not really what im looking for.
http://www.rc-hydros.com/
http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/

Any pointers to other sites would be great, I'm interested in individual's sites, please no commercial sites unless they are geared toward the sp400 sized stuff.

Also, what diameter/pitch props suit the graupner sp400's for a current draw around 8-10 Amps? I realise this is probably affected by hull style, drag and weight etc, but there must be some starting points/guidelines. Code numbers(like x432) mean nothing to me yet, but measurements in mm or inches work in my head equally well.

I used to have a boat years ago, made by Academy IIRC, that had a 540/550 sized motor and ran on 6 cell buggy packs(which I had plenty of 'coz I was racing onroad/offroad cars in those days), it was great fun and I'm interested in trying again.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

[rc.hackmaster]

hey if you like to build boats check out this site
http//jeffkesdesigns.com/newtonmarine/
this is a site with every hydroplane, well almost everyone in the book. the plans are for 1/8 scale but you can size them down for any size. excellent plans. i just finished a 1/10 scale miss burien. all 1/32 ply. check it out:D

[Seattle Jim]

Finally! Someone is using this forum! I've been waiting for someone to post something - anything. I love e-planes, but I have as many e-boats as planes. Mostly ABS arfs, which I modify with bigger motors, props, batteries, etc. And I use mostly SP 600 size motors. Sp 400 stuff might be too small to run on an average lake - but probably great for small ponds. If you want to try a swamp buggy, check out the Dumas line -- their small .049 version should adapt nicely to SP 400 stuff. I have their "Windy" airboat, and it is a BLAST! Faster than the IC version for sure! With a Mag. Mayhem, 3.5 to 1 MAS gearbox and 10x8 prop on 10 -12 cells. This thing runs out of control! Yaahhooo! I like outboards too. Can't wait for summer to run my Great Pains "Top Speed" tunnel hull with a Kyosho outboard fitted with a SP 700 motor on twelve cells. It's at full speed at 2/3 throttle. My old "Bud Light" outboard is a kick too. "Eat My Wake" and have fun .......... Jim

[MrBungle]

rc.hackmaster, thanks for the link.

Seattle Jim, It kinda looks like I'm the first one to start a topic here, but there have been a couple of threads to date.
To see them you have to click on the drop down box that says 'last 30 days' and select 'the beginning'

http://www.wn.com.au/foo2/button.gif

Keep those links coming guys :)

[rc.hackmaster]

check this site out! this is the club i'll be racing with.
classic thunder.org mostly old school hydros! mine is the miss burien in the projects sec. and the dummy engine.

[Andrew Gilchrist]

MB

the micro-hydros.com site is the best I am aware of as a vendor and boater

The guys there are some of the best in the business - Trent Hare Doug Forrester Miha Holc Joerg M. etc Walter Geens

They get on and provide a wealth of constructive information from both sides of the pond.on boat setups within different rule sets eg Europe has spec batteries - USA has a limit on cell pack mass.

For this class of boat - the best hull lenghts seem to be 15-18".

Motors - because of the high torque and constant current demand of boats the 480's have a significant advantage over the 400's - However the 400's can put up some very good performances.

[MrBungle]

Hi Andrew, thanks for the reply.

15-18" is about the size I was hoping a 400 boat would be, anything bigger just doesn't interest me, thanks for the guide on approx size.

Got any idea's the diameter prop I would need for a 15" hydro, approx 400grams running with a 6V sp 400 on 7x600ae's? Or is it near impossible to guesstimate? I'm not looking for competition quality here, just something to have some fun with.

The reasoning behind my decision on a 400 sized boat, was that all my aircraft are 400 sized, and I can try out a boat with some of the gear I have laying around the workshop and the batpacks I already have for the aircraft.

[Seattle Jim]

Hi Harry -- I don't think I mentioned SP 600's, but rather SP 700's. They are the best way to go for the money, unless you can afford AstroFlights. I have several SP 700 motors - just need to try them all out separately. My next trial will be with the 12-volt type, but I'm sure the 9.6-volt will give the best performance. Just have to wait for summer to find out. The SP 700's let you run a much bigger prop without heating anything up! The batteries hardly get warm. Love it! Later ....... Jim in Seattle

[JimClark]

Check out this link below for a free set of plans that look easy to build and should be a lot of fun to run.
http://www.rumrunnerracing.com/plans/hydromite.htm

Jim Clark

[Larry Benson]

hi Mr Bungle.you sound a lot like me, I have a lot of sp400 parts from my airplanes and wanted to get into boats using it. go to www.microhydros.com and check out "racer pages with photos" I have a scratch built boat there (my first) built from plans downloaded from the "hull plans" section. plans are Walter Geens Microcat an easy to build cat that accepts the r/c plane equipment easily. It's tough and unsinkable. the prop I use is the 0ctura X431 (plastic) and the 0ctura X427 (metal) I don't know about the X but the rest is a 400 series prop and 27 (31) mm diameter.0ne of your countrymen is one of the best at this stuff. contact Andrew at www.fastelectrics.com not only is he a wealth of knowledge he has some good info on his site, like a complete list and explaination of the 0ctura props. hope this helps...good luck..... Larry

[MrBungle]

Thanks Jim, thats exactly what I was looking for, dunno how I missed that last time I was there, my eyes must be painted on! hehe

Larry,
Thanks for the info, I'm going to try and find those props at my LHS's, one of which stocks a fair amount of boat gear, but the proprieter had no idea what would suit smaller electrics (he's a gasser). If I dont have any luck with them I'll probably get them from Andrew. Thanks again.

[Andrew Gilchrist]

Mr Bungle

RMS has Octura props - you need x427 x430 and P431

I think they also have Octura cables and other parts

However hardware for micros is an art at present people build to about 50% of weight of the smallest 05 based hardware

There are some very exciting prospects abotu at the moment

BTW if you go brushless 400 try the Mega 16/15/3 - these are a hot item and fast and inexpensive - a 25-30A controlelr shoudl see you right

Also there are they new 1700AUP cells - hottest thing since sliced bread - same weight as 800ar and 1500 mah at 15A discharge - very good cells for micros

and setup hassles email me at andrew@fastelectrics.com

also you may be interested in the site www.fastelectrics.com

[Gonflyin01]

go to my thread about wal mart boats. There isnt alot ob "building" but alot of modofying. I love building, but modifying is fun to. Het one of those really little 9" boats, fit it for a speed 400

[MrBungle]

OOPS! I had forgotten about this thread.

Andrew:
RMS is the store I was reffering to in my last post (...."one of which stocks a fair amount of boat gear".....), they are only a few mins drive from me.
I went to buy a prop but he wasn't open on a saturday!! I haven't been back since but I plan to go back soon.

One of my Uncles is hosting this years family Christmas get-together, he lives on a canal system! Nice wide(about 20-30 metres across, but looong) open water that doesnt get affected by wind much, I've never really seen any chop beause its boxed in and protected from the wind by houses.

So my plan is to get a boat ready for this christmas, I now have some old 7cell KR-600AE packs to use, and I have a couple of s400 6v motors with bent shafts. I'm going to try straightening these, I've heard it can be done.

Now for the hull, I'm planing to use an Aeroflyte hydro kit, I'm not sure if your familiar with these, there are two or three hydro's and one mono in the range, they are balsa kits and are around $25 each. (thats approx $13.50 for you U.S. readers). I bought one of these when I was a kid many many years ago and loved it, even though I just pushed it around through the water. Its long gone now tho.
The hydro's are 395mm(15.5") long by 215mm(8.5") wide and the mono is 360mm(14") x 160mm(6.3"), they are simple to build.
I plan to replace some of the front balsa skin with some thin liteply and replace all the formers with thicker balsa sandwiched with liteply, to strengthen things up a bit, then cover with solarfilm/monocote etc.

What do you think?
is 395x215mm too big for a s400? would a s480 be better?


Gonflyin01:
Sorry mate, there aren't many WalMarts in Australia, infact there are none. Interesting idea though.

Thanks,
Simon

OH, brushless is a future option, but not right now, I need to find a job first!
I've been considering a Mega 16/15/4 for my planes, dunno if I can afford another for a boat when they're not my primary interest.

[Trent Hare]

New Plans added from Gregor Vida - Roundnose Hydro
http://www.microhydros.com/hull_plans.htm

[MrBungle]

Hi guys,

Ive bought one of the kits that I mentioned in my last post.
Its built and covered but the canopy needs painting and I need to sort out positions for all the gear and some type of drive shaft.

I will post some construction pictures soon, it is a real nice looking boat, you will want one!

I'm unfortunatelly unable to provide the plans as this is a kit and I don't think the manufacturer would be very happy with me ;). But if there's some interest I might be able to send kits to those that would like one, depending on postage etc etc.
The kits aren't perfect(made for kids), some things provided need to be thrown away and done differently, but Its not dificult to build.

Anyway, pictures as soon as I use up this roll of film and get it developed.

'Till then....
Simon

[MrBungle]

Hmmmm.
I dunno if anyone is even reading this thread anymore, but I'm gonna post anyway.
The film got developed, a PhotoCD burnt, but I soon discovered that my Pentax SLR is now faulty, half of the photo's are unusable, the remainder only have half an image, the whole right side of each frame on the negative never got exposed. So I now have a whole bunch of half pictures.

Anyway, I managed to salvage a couple of pics, some of them a little dark on the right side. None of the pics of the finished model came out, D'OH!, so I'll have to shoot another roll when I figure whats gone wrong with my camera (seems to be the shutter).
I forgot to use my blue filter with some of these, so images are a little red due to incandescent lighting. Tried to correct in Photoshop, but colours are a bit off.



http://members.westnet.com.au/foo2/centre.jpghttp://members.westnet.com.au/foo2/pontoons.jpg

Left: Centre section (body) with 6v speed400 and 7cell pack of 600AE's. The bit on the nose thats been sheeted is full of polystyrene foam. At this stage the body had quite a bit of strength to it, but it could be easily twisted. Found an easy fix that served a double purpose. More later.
Right: The pontoons ready to have some foam fillings and then bottom skins fitted. The bottom skins supplied with the kit had no chance of ever fitting, too small, so I cut another pair out of 1/16" balsa, but then there was the problem of the compound curve of the underside. Some head scratching later and I just cut a slit about 3" long into the balsa sheet, glued the sheeting on one side of the slit, pressed the other side down and cut some more away from the slit to mate up with the original cut, removing a thin wedge of balsa, worked great.


http://members.westnet.com.au/foo2/dryfit.jpg

Trial fit of pontoons onto centre section to make sure everything is lining up.
Notice the dowels, one running across the inside bottom of the transom, and the other about midway in the second boxed section from the front. These aren't part of the kit, but I figured I would add them for some more strength as there is very little contact area between the body and the pontoons, didnt want to risk them coming off at speed. They run the full width of the pontoons and add little weight. They also eliminate, with the help of the pontoons, the majority of that twist that could be exerted on the body. Note also the foam in the aft section of the pontoon, there is also some filling between the first former and the tip of the pontoon. Hopefully there is enough foam to stop her hitting the bottom if I get a puncture ;)
Even if she only floats somewhere under the surface, its better than diving.


http://members.westnet.com.au/foo2/canopy.jpghttp://members.westnet.com.au/foo2/covering.jpg

Left: Its a little hard to see here, but There is a canopy there and its being trial fitted, lots of fun.
Right: Covering! more fun. And the only photo that I remembered to use the blue filter, white whites!
Okay covering, Problem here was that the pontoons needed covering before they were glued to the body, but the dowels needed epoxying AS the pontoon sides were glued on which meant that the side sheeting had to stay off, which meant that I couldnt cover the pontoons ... hmmmm.
Dunno if you can see but there are some 1/4" x 1/4" basla strips between the pontoons and the body, the bottom surface of these were covered first, then the insides of the pontoons were covered, except where the 1/4" balsa strip was to be glued.
The balsa strips were glued to the pontoons and then the top covering for the pontoons was applied so as to cover the balsa strip too, seamlessly. The top covering was only ironed on about half way to the sides, to allow the side sheeting to be fitted and then sanded and doped and sanded and doped and sanded. The body was covered, except for another area for the 1/4" strip. The pontoons were now glued to the body, the doweles were epoxied and the side sheeting was glued on. The top covering was finished, the bottom got covered and then the sides got covered. Fun
BTW, all surfaces that were to be covered got 2 coatings of dope with sanding before and after each coat. Smoooooth! and hopefully watertight. Time will tell.


http://members.westnet.com.au/foo2/almostdone.jpg

Fully covered (except for the wing) and the last good photo I have. The covering is white all over, not yellow as it appears here and the black background was a mistake.


Done after this Photo:
The wing is covered and in place, the canopy and parts of the hull are painted, discovered I'm no painter :(
And the little guy in the cockpit is painted, I'm actually proud of my painting effort with him, tho I tried to get as close to flesh tone skin as possible for his face. Someone said to me to exagerate the colour and it will look more realistic, I said 'nah' and kept matching the paint colour to the skin on my arm.
Well, I goofed up, he is just a tad palefaced, but I guess I would be too if I was doing a scale speed of around 300k's an hour across water!
BTW these photo's don't do the finished model justice, It looks good, even with my dodgy painting.


To do:
Some way to secure the canopy. It fits in a track and its a nice tight fit, but hardly secure.
Well I have no idea what to use as a shaft, and no idea what to do for a rudder.
I'm thinking maybe some flexi nylon tubing and a bass guitar string to fit, but I dunno yet.
As for the rudder I'm thinking a small peice of 1/16" ply and aaaargh I dunno. I did beef up the transom expecting to end up having to bolt something on there.
Any Idea's anyone? I dont think theres anything available commercialy for boats this size is there?

If anyone is interested in one of these kits, let me know, they are around 10 to 15 $US for the kit, freight cost unknown but easy enough to figure out.

Back to the planes for now,
Simon

[martin richards]

Some of us just browse and enjoy model talk. Your photo problems sound like you're using too fast a shutter speed for your flash. I bet there are no problems uxing it without flash, and I bet your Pentax is neraring old age (shutter runs horizontally)

[MrBungle]

No flash. Standard 100Watt incandescant bulb.
The above were 1/60th and 1/125 exposures with ASA 400 film.
The previous roll was fine, not even a hint of any problems. I'm trying to remember if I accidentally knocked the camera against something.
Yeah its getting old, unfortunatelly I had to buy an old camera because I needed a FULLY manual one.
I do a lot of time-lapse photography(anywhere from 5min to several hour exposures) and the newer camera's chew through the batteries holding the shutter open. The only thing the battery operates on mine is the light meter, and I can turn that off when I do the time-lapse stuff.

[martin richards]

Threw a wobbly a while back and may take up something in two dimensions eg boats instead of three. My last attempt at boats was an old Vic Smeed shallow "V" design with an ED racer 2.5 cc diesel Let us know how things go. Prop's with flex shafts, offset rudder, pontoons, how things change.
I'd still reckon from what you said you've got a shutter problem.