GAD Northrop F-5a build thread

[roccobro]

Hello guys. I been watching Mike at Green Air Design for the last year or so and has been excited about what he has done with Depron. I WAS waiting for his elusive F-22 to be finished. *finger crossed* As his kit have now hit mainstream and are readily available here in the States now, I figured I'd tide myself over with one of his new "Micro Combat Range" kits.

The F-5a looks drew me to it (like Doc's T-38) and it seems like a good candidate for an EDF-40 on Feigao or Medusa after she's sorted out pusher style. Although it is a pusher, with a projected AUW of 7-9 oz's, it fits right in with my parkflyer fetish. Says it can use a GoBrushless motor for 1:1 thrust, I might be bolting my new Medusa 12mm 4000Kv motor to its rear.


Comes in a nice box, with all parts loose. Not a problem as the parts are light pieces of cut Depron. No damage was found on anything.

[roccobro]

First on the list is to build the wings. Two halves of bottom and top sheets, with three ribs and some spars. Glue them all to the bottom sheets first, then, well... we'll get to that.

First is a mock up of the parts right out of the box.

[roccobro]

I am working with foaming polyurethane Gorilla glue and odorless CA for this build. Instructions call for epoxy, thinned down at times. THere are warnings about how hard it is to sand the epoxy, I can't imagine using it anymore!

First, the bottom halves are glued together. I added tape to contain the expanding glue and for slight strength. Next the inner spars and ribs are glued down. I found that the Glue was great for bonds and gap filling, but too slow for a documented project. I found that glue along the length, and CA at the tips of the ribs/spars makes it easy to have the best of both worlds. Speed in construction, and light weight (sandable) strength when cured.

[roccobro]

While waiting for the glue to cure I jumped to the next section of building the fuse.

Now the instructions are typed on one page, and a CAD like diagram (with some part identification) is on the back side of the previous page. This allows picture and description to be open for the project at the same time. I found a couple fo the pictures confusing and had to bust out a micrometer to identify some look alike parts from the pictures.

The fuse was one of those times where I had a description and picture (side views only) and was still scratching my head. The diagram could have the parts labeled with "part A" or "#3" to clear up some of the confusion. Once I trial fitted some parts *BAM* it made sense while the wording in the instruction steps finally became clear.

[roccobro]

I left the fuse to dry all pinned and taped. I had to wait for the laminated nose and the wing to finish drying so... I let my wife make me watch "Little Black Book". She would understand if I HAD to step away for my sanity, and it let me do checkups on my work. Plus, the dinner table is now my second workbench and I had to appease the Warden somehow.

Nose with rough sanding to shape, and the second picture is the wing. Well, witht he top sheets taped tot he botom, the ribs just flexed and kinda made it an asymetrical airfoil. So I strapped taht sucker to a flat board, placed some small sand bags on the edges, and added a "little" weight to the top. I knew tax paperwork would come in handy some day!

[roccobro]

Well, I wanted to leave this thread tonight on a happy note, but seeing my pile of crap on top of my wing reminded me of something. I forgot to install the aileron linkage under the top sheeting. :rolleyes: Here is my beautiful wing with surgery scars. :( On the bright side- the airfoil is correct again! :D

Justin

[roccobro]

My progress has been slow today. A combination of having to work tonight and babysitting suties until then, not muh has changed compared to the fast paced intial builup.

Couple this with, I believe a missing part, and the wing is almost done.

The wing LE need to be sanded into a nice airfoil shape. I had trouble figuring how to make enough of the top skin overlap the front to make it "sandable" as the diagram showed.

The instructions say that the leading edge strip should be installed with alot of tape. :confused: LE strip? Hadn't seen that or caught it in the first picture of all the parts. Luckily I have some 6mm black depron from my stalled French F-22 build about a year ago. Strip cut and istalled with G-glue.

[roccobro]

Nose cone has been sanded to rough shape and additional fuse top pieces installed. These "additional" pieces add thickness and allow the fuse to be shaped with sandpaper, making it rounded. Nose then taped onto front for final time.

I hope everybody is enjoying my pictures. They are coming from a Sony Mavica I inherited recently. This is a pre-megapixel specimen that uses a 3.5" flooppy. Sometimes it's age shows in the pictures. OR it could be me! :p

[Tommy D]

Always liked this bird..... keep up the good work!

Tommy

[roccobro]

Thanks Tommy! I like her looks too, looks fast even standing still. :cool:

I've sanded the LE to a nice shape and glued on the ailerons and hinges. Instructions don't say anything, but how do you guys recommend the servo get hooked to the torque rods?

Gotta get ready for work, so thats it for tonight. :(

Justin

[Tommy D]

I'm NOT an expert, but could you do something like DuBro offers in their parflyer aileron hinge set? Or perhaps something like the T-IFO I built used. Electrical shrink wrap! Very simple and easy to install. If you check the Ultrafly F-16 build they are addressing something like that on the elevators as we speak.

Keep up the good work the F-5 rocks!

Tommy

[Tommy D]

Couple this with, I believe a missing part, and the wing is almost done.

The wing LE need to be sanded into a nice airfoil shape. I had trouble figuring how to make enough of the top skin overlap the front to make it "sandable" as the diagram showed.

The instructions say that the leading edge strip should be installed with alot of tape. :confused: LE strip? Hadn't seen that or caught it in the first picture of all the parts. Luckily I have some 6mm black depron from my stalled French F-22 build about a year ago. Strip cut and istalled with G-glue.

Hmmmm did you E-Mail Mike to ask him the skinny??

Just watched the video... man it's a nice little flyer!

Can I ask where you bought it from?

I'm hot for the Mig-25 as well!

Tommy

[roccobro]

Tommy- Great ideas. I wonder how the shrink would hold up? I don't think there will be much torque/stress on the joint. Looks like the Du-Bros micro aileron parts might be the ticket. Finally glad I have a set laying right here unused... :D

Dynamoelectrics.com has them in stock now. I love dealing with Randy and he puts up with my cheap butt! :p Always on the prowl for good deals and I buy from Randy more than often than not. He should have some little screamer motors coming in that I think I might try. No build for the next few hours...must sleep...

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

for your viewing pleasure

[roccobro]

Now, what color Testors is that? :D Beeyouteeful! Trying to order/sort my servos and motor stuff since I don't have time to build the next day or two... :(

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

The guy who does the computer "Paintings' has a thread Over here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=350042) some of the guys are helping him out with parts so his son and him can go fly together.

[Ralph Brekan]

Man, Justin you beat me to the punch! Thats looking sweet! You dont mess around. I'm still on the wing stage. I had to break down and score some foam safe CA so I can really make progress on the kit. I think building completely with 5min epoxy will take forever and add grams of uneeded weight. Hopefully, I'll get my Sepcat Jaguar thread rolling tomorrow. :D

You're is looking great already!

[Tommy D]

Guys

When I use a "kick" on foam safe CA it turns the area <foam> yellow, have you noticed the same thing on depron?

Kam, best of luck with the kittykat!

Tommy

[roccobro]

Tommy- My kicker is about 10 years old, and I am a little more patient than I was then. Needless to say, I don't use it and I haven't tried it on Depron. I used to hold G.glue while it firmed up so the time CA takes to set is nothing. I have noticed that odorless ca does takes longer than regular CA, and most of the time regular CA doesn't effect this depron....

Justin

[roccobro]

It's been awile since I had time to work on the Freedom fighter. I had to re-open one of the torque rod scars to secure a loose bearing. Then I had to work the hinges ALOT to get them to soften up as the odorless CA was thick and created a kinda film over the CA hinges. Everything is smooth (for the wing) and back to where I was with the servos.

The fuse now needed the outer side pieces glued on as the next step calls for mounting the motor and elevator :confused: The bottom rear half of the fuse needs to go on also, but putting it on would prohibit the wing from being installed.

Shown is the "intake" sides gluing. The glue joint came looseon one side when pins were removed. No pixs of regluing. :p It feels like things REALLY slowed down in the build here.

[roccobro]

I had a set of Cirrus 6.5's laying around and had heard good things about them. The Cirrus 4.4's I have are slated for another project, and I have heard not so good things about them. I wanted some of BalsaPR's new Blue Bird 3.6g servos or the BM-306's (I am using some of these in my Kamdax M2000) as they are juuust right for my budget and weight desires (haven't heard anything bad about them either.) Alas, OUT OF STOCK was the buzz word so Cirrus is a go.

I picked a nice spot on the top of the wing and dug in. I made the hole a very tight fit for the servo and it holds it tight. Trial fitting the wing in (rear half of fuse is NOT installed yet) shows the servo sits kinda high. So I cut through to the bottom of the wing and mounted the servo flush. A second tight hole, along with the spar running right at that spot make for a literally squeeky tight servo hold. I will not be using any glue or screws to hold this baby down.

[roccobro]

The Du-Bro micro Aeleron system (Cat no 850) was perfect. It had the plastic mounts that slide onto the torque rod and tighten with a screw. It also had the retaining clip that holds the wire to the mount, and also a set of EZ adjusters for the servo side of the rod. For $4.95, it's only 2x the price of just the EZ connectors. UNFORTUNATELY I had bunged up my reserve of GAD wire when I followed the diagram of the torque rods and cut them too short. LUCKILY GWS uses the same diam rod and I had some left over from an F4U! Back in business.

Here is the linkage all set up.

[Ralph Brekan]

Wow, those pins look very professional. I'll have to get some (ie select a couple fancy dress shirts when I'm at the mall tonight.) :p I guess thats why your build looks so good though. Well, I better get crackin.... :rolleyes:

[geoffbeneze]

Wow, those pins look very professional. I'll have to get some (ie select a couple fancy dress shirts when I'm at the mall tonight.) :p I guess thats why your build looks so good though. Well, I better get crackin.... :rolleyes:

I probably have more sewing pins than my wife does!

[roccobro]

I probably have more sewing pins than my wife does!

Lol! I had to buy them myself because my wife doesn't know how to sew-but I do. :p

And the build goes on! Tail feathers are being built completely different than the instructions. Just coulnd't figure them out so I'm doing it my way.
Justin

[geoffbeneze]

Lol! I had to buy them myself because my wife doesn't know how to sew-but I do. :p

And the build goes on! Tail feathers are being built completely different than the instructions. Just coulnd't figure them out so I'm doing it my way.
Justin

I've always suspected my wife (in part) decided to marry me because I had a better sewing machne than she did. An old ancient Remington that I used for backpacking, hunting and sailboat equipment.

After 15 years, she still uses mine instead of "hers" (G)

[roccobro]

I didn't have my own machine until just recently. Mother-in-law won it in a raffle and gave it to ME. :D It doesn't sew canvas or leather, but I gues I can contiue to live without that feature in my life.

Justin

[mjblack]

Hi guys,

Justin.....that looks wonderfull!

Please keep up th efantastic work, adn thank you!

Bets regards,

Mike.

[roccobro]

Thanks Mike. I've done some of the elevator stuff but haven't posted it yet. Soo close!

Justin

[roccobro]

Got another day off so I'm back at it!

The tail group had me scratching my head, I might have a bald spot now. I finally decided to a plan and went for it.

Here is how it will look on the inside. The ball joint will connect to a servo located farther up in the fuse. The supplied rod is stout enough in steel, but I will use some CF rod instead. The tubes on the wire next to the blocks are shrink tubing. They will be shrunk and CA'd on to hold the rods from shifting (more on that).

Justin

[roccobro]

Took it apart and taped together the wires to hold 'em still for measuring and gluing.

The wires were too long from the instructions (probably because I did it wrong) so I bent them and then trimmed off what went past the stab. The bending also made me feel better as to the effectiveness of a small diam smooth rod glued in. The torque will have to be transmitted and not just twist inside the glue joint.

The disks are 1/32 ply that will space out the stabs. It will stop any stab to body rubbing and allow me some room to bend the wire back into shape after a hard landing. :D Glued to the stab (which is glued to the wire) this also help eliminate any axial play in the shaft (in and out of the fuse).

[roccobro]

The stab was lined up with the fuse and a cut was made tracing the wire. The cut was 3mm in (halfway through) and made the bottom of the stab flush with the bottom of the 6mm block it pivots in.

Once the wire was crammed into the slot, everything looked good and AC was applied.

To aid in alignment, strength and staying power, large amount of fluid were provided to this athlete. :D

[roccobro]

The finish of wire grooves on the elevator stabs looks like poop. I tried to fill a couple large opening with G.glue, but it didn't like the CA and just stayed gooey. Scraped that off and I'll think of something else if neede to be pretty. Structurally it is tight!

With the stabs perfectly aligned, I soldered them together with the ball joint installed. Worked better than I imagined. While the wire is flexible, it is rigid enough. And with the ply spacers and soldering some pre load, there is zero axial play and the two shrink tubings are not even needed for tighness.

I had reammed out the ball joint to fit a CF tube that reaches to the cabin. I might be locating the servo up in the rear portion of the canopy area instead of in the duct. I am not sure of the balance, or even what motor I will use so the servo location is up in the air until I trial fit the electronic components.

Trial fit with the wings and it looks like a plane! Last is the vert stab. I haven't had any luck with a 90 deg glue, especially at this area. I plan to cut some 45 deg strip to make a contour at the base. That will add some rigidity and won't even be noticed.

[roccobro]

Next will be the motor mount. It is originally laser cut balsa, but I don't think it will hold with my uncontrolled landings. A new mount out of 1/16th ply will be made up, with some way to mount a CD motor and a 12mm Medusa that I want to try (no not at the same time Ralph :rolleyes: ).

Justin

[Action Jack]

On my depron Hornets, I cover the exposed spar on the top with a very thin sheet of styrene that acts as a doubler. It reinforces the stab a touch and makes a nice smooth finish. If you cut a shape that looks like a panel, it looks pretty sharp and would cover your wire woes. I'm imagining a triangle that follows the le and the root that has the tip trimmed on the same angle as the stab tip forming a nice four sided looking panel.

Just a thought. It also stiffens the foam in case you catch a tip on landing. I haven't broken a tip off yet. I used epoxy to glue the styrene down.

Jack

[Action Jack]

Maybe something like this.... Except you should paint the panel to match. :)

Jack

[mjblack]

Lookign great guys!

only one small comment!...you should be using he other wire supplied!....as its mush stiffer fro the elevator!..you dont want it wibbling an dwobbling!....also you will find that the ball link will fit the thicker wire perfectly. very strong elevator rod ad linkage then..wil take more pics fro the CD which will be included on later kits.

apart from that....F-5/t-38 here we come!

keep up the wonderfull work .

regards,

Mike.

[roccobro]

Jack- That is a good idea. I saw somewhere that there is .010" depron in the train sections of some stores. I haven't been able to find any. That would be sweet.

Mike- I figured the thicker was for the servo rod as it wouldn't flex. I know there is a little wibbling and wobbling that can come from the wire as I used it. I might just solder another piece bridging the two parts between the blocks of wood. Ball rod is tight now with the two small wires and some excess solder. No big worries.

My wife is excited now that it looks like a plane. I've been waiting for one of those new "little screamers" that are partially plastic. We'll see when we get there.

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

So, that heavy gaged wire with the threaded ends is for the elevator?? :confused:

Man I'm glad I checked your thread before I did my Jaguar linkage tonight! :o Well there will be some wibbly/wobby in the pushrod with the supplied piano wire as well... I might run it in a narrow GWS linkage tube (clear 2mm type) to eliminate flex..

Also the supplied elevator rod is pretty stiff. Might be tough to bend consistently... :rolleyes:

[roccobro]

If I knew it was supposed to be the thick rod, I would have done a straight CF tube (.125 OD) straight through and then attached a ply horn on it. I (now) see that there are so many ways to do it. By reading the instructions I was at a loss and wanted to do the whole build as per the instructions. Oh well, I like it when a plan comes together and this little tidbit took over a week of thinking before I tackled it. OK, so I was busy too. :rolleyes: :p

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

You guys are doing an invaluable service for the rest of us by building these kits.
So far, I haven't seen a decent set of instructions yet from ANY Manufacturer for any kit plane.
I think it's because they work around the kits so often that some building aspects are just "second nature" to them, and they get omitted from the instructions.
I'm working on a Ultrafly F-16 right now and the instructions are abysmial :( just a couple of pages of drawings, parts aren't identified correctly, some are even omited, and so on.

I'm beginning to think a person could make a ton of money buying kits in bulk, assembling them, then re-selling the finished plane on Ebay or somewhere. Maybe not though, as you'd have a bunch of complaints of I want this motor, or this ESC, or why don't you make a JR compatable kit, and so on LOL.

Have fun building guys!!!

Tom

[Ralph Brekan]

I'm working on a Ultrafly F-16 right now and the instructions are abysmial :( just a couple of pages of drawings, parts aren't identified correctly, some are even omited, and so on.

Tom


WOW! Thats good to know about the Ultrafly F16 kit. :rolleyes: I'm sure the new Su27 isnt much better.

And also, thanks for the encouragement Tom. I know guys like, Steve S (jetset44) and Mike B (mjblack) are true scratch build geniouses. I bet, like most geniouses, they have a hard time communicating their genious ideas to us simple folks... :p We're doing our best.

Justin, do you think I could just put a plywood controll horn on that "torque rod" GAD provided in the kit? I dunno if I can make thise fubky bend w/o heating that large gage rod with a torch or something. I think it'll snap. :eek: Maybe a CF rod w/ a horn for torque would be better?

[roccobro]

I'm not sure of my abilities to make a ply horn attach to a metal rod. The CF tube, I would slit 1/3 the way, and using urethane glue or epoxy it would be strong. I think a litle metal horn would solder right in there easily though and would be strong. I just tried bending it and it isn't too hard with small hobby pliers.

I don't know if I mentioned it, but I glued the blocks in first then drilled them out. I had originally drilled 90 deg through the blocks but the fuse is compound curves so those were useless. I eyeballed the drilling with a handdrill and slid the wires through for checking.

I am making notes to donate for the new version of instructions. I don't have neat CAD pictures to have a blow up diagram and perfect labelling of parts though. We'll see what happens.

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

If you want something to giggle over

try the Ultrafly F-16 Building "Manual" (http://www.modelflight.com.au/d/F-16%20MANUAL.pdf)

[roccobro]

Took the extra material from the wing LE and cut it at an angle. Taped it to the vert stab and then taped that down to the fuse. A light smathering of G/glue and let it sit. Came out really rigid and stiff. I know it will break off higher than the bracking should it ever get hit hard.

[roccobro]

Motor mount and balancing are next. The canopy is the only thing left in the box. Aside from alot of confusion, it is really a simple build. Like RC says, genius's just have a hard time conveying their ideas. :D

Justin

[Littlescreamers]

I have built you a custom motor for this plane and it is on the way to you, Should be there Monday.
Thank Randy from Dynamo :D

I also received Plane kit to build and it is a Sepecat Jaguar.
I will be putting the same motor on mine.

Have fun

Scott
&
Rene
Littlescreamers.com

[p51flyer]

Awesome Plane!

[roccobro]

WOW!! Thank you Randy and Scott! I've been waiting patiently for some new info on the availability of the new Little Screamer motor. The time between posts were getting long so I started gathering up my old CD motor parts to "make do". Now I can go on with my plans!!

Thanks again Randy and Scott!!

P51 flyer- I agree the Sepecat Jaguar is an awesome plane. It's about time to pick the colors on my F5. I need to test the look of aluminum/chrome Testors paint on the dark Depron.

[roccobro]

So I need to finish the body in prep for flight.

The canopy has a "floor" to it, and is secured with some (supplied) 5x5x1 magnets to the fuse. I'm not sure if I will cut some of the floor out for any reason.

The contour of the canopy area on the fuse is a slight bow. I started by gently bending the depron until it held the same curve. I then took the canopy and trimmed it only enough to let it sit somewhat onto the fuse for fitment checks.

I then used my sewing pins to hold the canopy to match the contour of the floor piece. Using glued the two pieces together with liberal amounts of Pacers "formula 560 canopy glue" and scotch tape. I let it set for 2 days (normal 24 hour cure). I then trimmed off the proud canopy plastic flush with the floor bottom. A little filling and sanding at the front and rear of the fuse/canopy joints will made it snug in it's spot before the use of magnets.

[Ralph Brekan]

Wow, yours is looking like a screamer! ;)

[roccobro]

And it's little too! :D

Finally a day off. Where's the Post man?

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

I hear ya! Man, my arms are tired. Do you ever think you'll sand all the way to China? :confused:

[RCParkflyer]

is tha Gorilla glue on the bench? How do you like using that?

[roccobro]

is tha Gorilla glue on the bench? How do you like using that?

Love it. I had a big bottle of Probond before, but it got old and stopped foaming and stuff. The GGlue comes in a smaller bottle, tip clogs less, and as a glue works great. It sand just a hair harder than depron, but sure beats CA or Epoxy.

It takes a while to set, but you can vary how much "filling" it does by how much moisture you add. Most of the time I just kick a light smearing of GG with some hot breath on it. If you need it to fill a crack, add a spritz of water. Mix 50:50 in a cup before applying and it will set in under an hour (about a 5 min working time) and it is strong and light. Some use it this way to sheet balsa onto wings.

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Its a GREAT foam filler.

[RCParkflyer]

I bought some of it at the hardware store a while back, but I never tried it yet, great idea about mixing it 50/50 I'll give that a try too. I'm already getting sick of the smell of epoxy, so if this works as good I'm just going to use it instead. I really don't like epoxy at all. Thanks for the tip guys. :)

[geoffbeneze]

I bought some of it at the hardware store a while back, but I never tried it yet, great idea about mixing it 50/50 I'll give that a try too. I'm already getting sick of the smell of epoxy, so if this works as good I'm just going to use it instead. I really don't like epoxy at all. Thanks for the tip guys. :)

Actually, I've done the same thing, brand new bottle sitting on my bench that I haven't tried.

The mix idea sounds good, I'll try it.

[roccobro]

Going kinda slow cause I don't have the motor to make the mount and finalize the elevator servo spot. Plus chores around the house had been piling up :D

I got the canopy butted up smooth and flush on the rear area, and a little gap in the front. Actually, I think I put the fuse sides slightly askew as the fuse to canopy corners aren't square with the canopy plate (which is square). The trimming at the rear helped with that too. Wedged a spare nose section piece into the front gap, making the canopy wedged tight.

I ended up with a gap where the overlapping nose plates and bad corners met in the front. I mixed a little GGlue with H2o to show the foaming action. Mixing the two parts together made me realize the the water to glue ratio is actually like 1:4. It was easy to seperate the water the wouldn't mixt with just a strong blow of air. I showed my wife my hot air IS actually good for something! :p Before and after pictures with an hour delay.

[RCParkflyer]

that is some GREAT stuff!! gonna have to call that the mistake masker LOL I wonder how it would work laying up fiberglass, if it would dry hard enough to be sandable and so on.

[roccobro]

I had it work on one wing (.75 oz cloth) of my Wattage F-86, and the other side it never hardened. I was also mixing it with mineral spirits-Quick kick off! The wings had creased where upwards where the inner CF shaft ended. Kinda hard to say if it is better than WBPU.

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

I think WBPU is painless and you can even topcoat w/o glass and it adds some thin, lightweight protection.

[roccobro]

Sanded down the filler and it looks good. As far as sanding in general, I haven't done much except for shaping the nose, LE of wing and tail feathers. I *might* knock down the square edges on the fuse, but I won't worry about purdyness until I know it flies and I'm ready to put some colors on. Maiden will have some identifying colored stripes for orientation out of electrical tape. Gotta test how a chrome spray paint will look on the black depron without a base coat.

Justin

[roccobro]

Weight so far the empty airframe is 3.4 oz's or 94g. That is with one Cirrus 6.5 (7grams total) servo installed, all wing linkage, and a CF rod from the cockpit to the elevator. 3s Irate 830's are 61g, P-10 is 6g, GBV 22.7 sized CD motor with GWS 5x3 and CF mount is 22g, Medusa 12mm 4000kv with 3x3 is 16g, and Hitech HFS-05MG is 16g (with xtl). Looks like another 120g's for all the heaviest stuff making the AUW around 215g (~7.7oz's).

Swithching to the 12mm motor (will it even work?), 2s iRate (29g), and Hitech feather (9g), I *could* be looking at an AUW of 165g (~5.8 oz's)

We'll see how hot this 'Lil Screamer motor is, and if my batteries can handle them! (fingers crossed)

Justin

[Tommy D]

Great thread!

If you have to do "chrome" <and it's murder to see in the sky> you could try an iron on covering. Do you want chrome <mirror?> or a more aluminum finish?

Pictured below is a small section of iron on chrome so you can see how it looks.

Can't wait to read about the first flight!

Tommy

[roccobro]

I don't know why I was thinking about using chrome, except that picture posted earlier. Here is a couple pictures of the Testors chrome sprayed on the spare black depron plate that came with the kit (single light pass but went on thick in one spot). On the chrome side you can see where my thumb was. Inside and outside pictures because of glare.

Last picture is in the sun with a reflection.

Your covering looks way nicer (with a real reflection!) but I don't want to iron on this plane.

[RCParkflyer]

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/c/covq0996.jpg

How about something like this?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXB231&P=7

Ultacote
http://www.rchobbies.org/images/chrome.jpg
http://www.rchobbies.org/planes_covering-tips.htm

then there are sprayable laquers for use on models but you need a glass smooth finish first http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html

http://www.alclad2.com/images/ALCLAD_plane2_b.jpg

And then finally the stuff they use on BVM turbines

http://www.scaleaero.com/flitemetal.htm

http://www.scaleaero.com/scaleaero/4612rolls.jpg

you make rivets with "Rosie Riveter"

http://www.scaleaero.com/flitemetal_rosie_riveter.htm

[roccobro]

I don't think I want to iron on a film with all these curves. Plus with the model in the 7 oz range I really don't want the extra weight. I guess I'm looking for a light weight-single stage paint that will make her easy to see (and easy on the eyes).

BTW that is a great picture of a superb covering.

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Man that looks freaking real~! :eek:

[RCParkflyer]

I'd just get some light weight spackling and thin it down to a thick milk like constancy and sand it out smooth, seal it with a coat of wbpu and then paint it what ever color you want, add decals and weathering effects if you want them, and then put a final seal coat on that.

[RCParkflyer]

some light reading for your "spare time" :eek:
How I Finish My Planes (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161218)

[roccobro]

I went ahead and reinforced the elevator rod. Doubling it up with another short section of same diam was a cinch. The heat shrink tubing that was left on there (unused-for possible lateral play) came in handy holding it in place while I soldered. With a tad of liquid flux, 10 seconds and I was done on both sides. Notice how only one of the HS tubing was even affected! I've had excellent results from using this flux, I usually just used flux cored Deans racing solder. The liquid flux came in a Sivler solder kit called "Stay Bright". Can't remember where I got it (Art's hobby online??) but it was only $5 with solder.

Justin

[roccobro]

Had a lull in the day so I gifured I'd throw Miss 2000 back together. This time I'm running the power wires twisted and wrapped in foil, and the servo wires running through a snap on Rf reducer.

[roccobro]

Here is a shot of the intakes. One has been repainted with some Kamdax paint from Keith. Matched pretty good, I'm sure if it was thinned and sprayed it would be identical. The inside of the ducts have been lightly FG'd with .75 oz clothe to strengthen a little from my exploding landing. :p

[roccobro]

Once I had it all together and snapped the pins in, I thought about my launching technique. I chewed up the foam handles on just three throws, so I installed a handle. The smaller ply pieces on the belly were for damage protection on landings.

[roccobro]

Here she is ready to go, minus the lipos. With the newer 20C lipo batteries coming out, and my problem with having too rearward of fan placement I'm thinking of moving the servo to the IC mount location. The two spots in the middle of the fuse are already open, would only require a longer push rod (CF of course), and would shorten the servo leads that might help in reducing servo glitching. I'm sure when I (finally) install a lighter BL motor this will all be moot. Project for another day :)

Too bad my next day off is Tuesday :rolleyes:

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

Looking nice Justin :) why not try and fly it before work, or around sundown

[roccobro]

At sundown I have to be at briefing. Daylight is for sleeping until Tuesday. Plus, wife and kids should be home any minute now :) I can wait to make her needing repair again anyhow! :p

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Wait, thats not a GAD! :p

[roccobro]

Yeah, I feel silly :rolleyes: :( :o

Funny thing is I look more forward to flying the GAD. I tested teh Medusa 12mm VERY crudely last night. on 3s it made 5 oz's of thrust at 24k rpm, once I put the prop on the right direction :rolleyes: This is on a pack that reads 7.6v at rest. Would go past 3.5 oz's on a 4x4 at same amps.

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

Well, it looks incredible. Seeing yours, I wonder if mine is salvageable? :rolleyes:

[roccobro]

Do you have all the pieces? I just strapped the pieces to a flat board and G.glued them. Trim off the excess glue and touch up if necessary (haven't done that yet). Didn't you toast your fan unit? Did something happen to the WPF, or did it just suck?

Justin

[Ralph Brekan]

It just sucked. LOL! :p Yeah I have all the pieces. I think I could use GG and some thin balsa formers to fix it ;) I'd like to set it up pusher. EDF's are killing my RC budget :(

[roccobro]

For those not following the M2000 thread in the EDF forum...

OOPS! I just posted 4 posts in another thread that were meant for here! :eek: :eek: Oh well. At least I know the guys who thread it is. :)

A bunch of pictures on puting Miss 2000 back together. Oops! (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351033&page=5&pp=15)

Justin

[roccobro]

The Little Screamers motor showed today! Accompanied with it were a 7x3.5 prop and a pair of different CD mounts. This motor has some AMAZING cogging! I've been into CD motors for almost 2 years, using N48 and N50 magnets. This thing is stronger in cogging than anything I've built (even one with .001" clearance!). Fit and finish is greater than any home builder could do or think of on his own. Built in prop saver is a bonus and one less thing that can come loose and wreck a day.

Gotta get to work though :mad: and windy rainy is the weather. I smell a maiden anyways!

Justin

[RCParkflyer]

Very intresting mounts. Don't be suprized if you see one of those pictures show up on someones website someday :) Glad to hear your happy with those motors, I have a couple of Wattage F-22's that could use them :) I look forward to your flight reports!! did you decide on a paint job yet?

[Littlescreamers]

So how is this thing coming along?

What batts are you going to use?

That prop and a 3s1p will do ya like (from my charts)
v10.6 A9.10 W96 RPM13980 P/S 46. THR 17.39 oz

With that motor I can also get you this with a 4s1p:

5.1x4.9 Zagi

V14.2 A12.85 W182 RPM18080 P/S 83.9 THR 17.78 oz

Have fun

Scott
&
Rene
Littlescreamers.com

PS
Check out the pitch speed of the Zagi prop and with that thrust WOW you should shoot a straight line to the moon:D

[roccobro]

Scott and Rene, I wanted to say thanks aagain. This motor is awesome. I have cut out the ply mount and quickly run up the motor with the packs I have but none else. Monday is playday! 17oz's of thrust :eek: :eek: :eek: I was hoping for something over 6!!! Maybe I won't worry about an extra 1.5oz's of batteries!

What I have seen with my (old?) lipos is roughly this:
2s2s 600 iRates- 7.6v @ rest, 5.0amps full throttle
3s1p 880 iRates-11.5@rest, and 6.0A full throttle
2s1p 600 fully charged 8.2v, 4.5A
Hmm..4s1p on a smaller prop....I don't know if I can see that good!

I have not measured the RPM and am about to charge the 880's up. I work 12 hour shifts and seem to only be getting 1-2 hours of open eye time at home. :( It's hard to be giddy at work and trying to hide that it's about and RC motor! :p

Gotta jet (pusher style!)

Justin

[roccobro]

With the motor taped in place, second servo in general to-be-mounted area, Rx in central located spot, and a pack of 3s 880's in place she come out at 7.3 oz's.

[roccobro]

With the 880's reading 11.6v at rest, the motor was pulling 7 amps @11,800 on the 7x3.5 prop using a CC P-10. Don't know what that means thrust or pitch speed wise but it sure pushes hard and moves ALOT of air.

Things still needed to do:

1)Mount elev servo-I'm going to place it inside the fuse around the wing area as the leads on both servos are REALLY short, and their miniscule weight does nothing for CG balance that the batteries can't do.
2)Cut down CF elev rod to attach to servo.
3)Make battery extension- 880's are up in the nose and P-10 is in the rear.
4)Make the bottom rear half of fuse somewhat removable. I have some great latch ideas I learned from Miss 2000. This is needed to access all the servo adjustments, Rx, and ESC.
5)Permanently secure motor mount 1/16th ply plate. It better be solid!
6)Polish the motor can. Seems the flux ring is "in the white" and doesn't like finger oils. :D Couldn't figure out how my daughter got some "paint residue" on it and why I couldn't get it off! :p Sure is a pretty motor...
7)Make some markings to tell top from bottom (KISS for maiden)

I'll keep you posted

[Ralph Brekan]

Wow, you got your Little Screamer? I wonder ifmine got lost in the mail?? :confused: But seeing how the dude from Little Screamers is building a Sepecat Jaguar I guess mine fell through the cracks. :confused:

[roccobro]

Tried a couple more props while the glue is drying and it seems this motor doesn't like smaller ones. :D Spun a GWS 5x3 at 15.5k rpm and 4 amps on the partially charged 3s 880's. Next was a GWS 4x4 that spun 15.5k at 3.9A-same! An APC 5x5 13k @ 5.6A. Seems that the 7x3.5 will be nice- if it doesn't make for some nasty torque rolls!

Must resist sleep...keep building....

Justin

[roccobro]

Bottom fuse panel is now removable and secure. Using a pair of tongues at the front, and a pair of slide hold downs it goes on tight and removes easy. The rear of the panel will be locked in from sliding rear and off by the 1/16 ply motor mount hanging down behind it and pinned. Pull the pins and lift the panel a hair to clear the mount. The hourglass shape of the fuse already makes the panel almost clear the mount without aid. Rearward travel of 1/4" clears the hold downs and pulls the tongues out. :p

[Ralph Brekan]

Pretty smart! I just cut an access hatch in the bottom of mine. Now I can get to all the parts (well aside fron the motor) w/o a problem. You seems to like the "snap tight" models method. How does it hold up in flight?

[roccobro]

Well Miss 2k didn't have the tail section supported enough (4 cf rod "pins") and would sag after rough handling or hard landing. Also she used alot of Dubro type hinges, where removal of the hinge pin make sections removable. This Gad Fly is so light, I was working on it with the batteries in and didn't realize it! The airframe is so light, I feel bad putting the "heavy" components in. Feels like a balsa glider in the hand. :D So minimal forces are being put on these hold downs. I just need to make sure the wing will stay put (moves even if bottom plate is glued).

Motor mout is glued on, and elevator rod is cut and modded.

WOO HOO! It takes longer to finish the little things than it does to make a whole fuse and wing assembly!

Justin

[roccobro]

I got all the servos (Cirruse 6.5's) secured in, and the wing situated so it wouldn't budge in flight and I hooked them all up the Rx to make It's home cozy.

BAM! The elevator servo moves on power up and doesn't respond anymore. Aeleron servo responds to both channel2 and 3 inputs at the same time. What gives? I'm trying my new Hitec HFS-MG05 Rx, might be a problem. I go to my astroflight servo tester.

The Evelator servo will crank all the way one direction and refuse to go elsewhere. I manuall find it's center (with no power of course) and plug it back in. Same thing. Is there a board inside that could be damaged? At one point I feel the servo getting warm in my fingers. ARGH!

I next try the Aeleron servo, still mounted in the wing on the AF tester. It resondes fine in clockwise direction, but really "glitchy" CCW. By glitchy, I mean it looks and sounds like it has resistance and kinda jumps in movement instead of a smooth swing. I remove the servo arm and it is still the same problem.

I did a search in the radio forum for "Cirrus" looking for any comments in failures and didn't find any. I guess there are a couple Mfgs out there that clone the 09 model, but no comments on the 6.5.

Any ideas? I figure a trip to HP to return/exchange them is in my future :rolleyes: I was getting ready to maiden tomorrow morning at sunrise.

[roccobro]

OK, had the mixing on-thought I flipped the right switch without looking :rolleyes:. But this doesn't change the fact that the aleron servo is jumpy and the other doesn't respond (just tried them on a feather receiver, the only Rx I've used for the last 2 years). If I have to buy more servo, I'll go smaller (blue bird or cirrus). Kinda sucks as all the servo holes I cut are *perfect* fit for the 6.5's.

[roccobro]

So how is this thing coming along?

What batts are you going to use?

That prop and a 3s1p will do ya like (from my charts)
v10.6 A9.10 W96 RPM13980 P/S 46. THR 17.39 oz


10v 8.3A W86 RPM 13,300 on charged iRate 830's!! ThrustHP program guesses about 1.27 lb's of thrust. :confused: really that much?

Thanks Scott and Rene!

Gonna try some 4s 600 action with smaller prop (just to see ;) )

Justin

[roccobro]

Traveled the hour round trip to HP and swapped my bad Cirrus 6.5 for a new one. Got home and this bugger gitters at idle, no matter where I have it set at. I will be making ANOTHER trip to get a good 6.5. This time I'm busting out the servo tester while I"m in the store.

Will I ever get to maiden her? My sites are set on Saturday!

Justin

[roccobro]

Got the servo issue taken care of for the most part. I went and spun the motor mount reversed so it is "hiding" behind the rear wall. Extended the P-10 Rx wire to reach, and had to fix BOTH sides of torque rod tubes (you know where I already had to cut open?) as the inner bearings had come unglued with the recommended throws. I wish I had a computer radio to set expo as I think this guys gunna be squirrley on the sticks. Or maybe I'm just a nut and that the problem. :)